GameplayWhore
Member
It helps to remember that the most powerful system never, ever wins. In fact, it is often in last place.
PSM: PS4 specs more powerful than Xbox 720
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It helps to remember that the most powerful system never, ever wins. In fact, it is often in last place.
Wasnt snes more powerful?
Genesis Knight
Member
More colors and hardware support for certain effects. Whether the sound is 'better' is largely a matter of what style you prefer, and the Genesis had a much faster processor.
The Xbox and N64 weren't in last place, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Power has been incidental in all the cases you allude to. It is either the price and/or launch time mixed in with marketing and perception.. and games.
Its like both MS and Sony are both racing to produce the crappiest console possible.
Damon Bennet
Member
wat, ps3 is more powerful than 360.
On paper. In reality, the 360 was the place to go for superior multiplat releases. Some of the first party stuff rocks, though.
Sounds like they are trying to maximize profits for the next gen. I imagine they are thinking that if they can ride out the next gen with minimum upgrades for around 6-7 years again they can take the route of OnLive with their first parties separating the two. It would also mean more acquisition of newer dev teams in years to come.
I am reserving my judgement on the hardware till I see some software for it. But if the latest rumours for Xbox is true and Sony follows closely, there are only 4 options: Buy it, Don't buy it, Go mobile (Vita etc) or get a PC.
I think it's interesting to ask then how this will affect pc games. Games developed for PC only would have ridiculous graphics if the new consoles don't push the technology.
lolwut
No. There won't be a lot of PC games that will target ONLY PC next gen. (There is really no point, since next gen console WILL support DX11)
I don't have TV either. Now what?
MaximusNeo701
Member
because when dev's make a game they are def going to to make it utilize the faster of the 2 consoles and cut out a huge chunk of the market?
Or the same game will be released for both with the same assets so whichever console is the slowest is where the standard will be..... Unless sony makes their powerful enough they can tell all dev's. "Hey btw set this nice little AA flag here to whatever you want and all the ports will have nice AA we developed and look 100 times better on our console to utilize this extra power." But we can dream right GAF?
Or the same game will be released for both with the same assets so whichever console is the slowest is where the standard will be..... Unless sony makes their powerful enough they can tell all dev's. "Hey btw set this nice little AA flag here to whatever you want and all the ports will have nice AA we developed and look 100 times better on our console to utilize this extra power." But we can dream right GAF?
Patapwn
Member
PC am cry
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Current TVs too low res confirmed!
Yeah, but the hardware power was never the reason for it. It was always another reason (a very dumb reason)
Maybe not the main reason but it's still a reason (more powerful = higher price = less sales).
Maybe if we are comparing cpu's alone.
As a whole I dont think there is a significant difference in processing power between the two systems.Both consoles have some strenghts and weaknesses.
Like Carmack said,the biggest differentiator now are the developers.
For the first one, expect 4 times less, and for the second one, expect 5 times less. That's all...
Nizz
Member
What I'm hoping for is a PS4 that is powerful enough were first party studios can dig into it and produce some crazy looking titles. But an architecture that's relatively simple for third party devs so they can produce great looking/running solid multiplatform titles.
Hopefully they also release at no more than $399 tops.
piSquaredOver6
Banned
I really hope to see at least 32 SPUs. I really hope Sony doesn't abandon the Cell architecture after spending so much on R&D. And seriously need to see at least 8 gigs of XDR2 and like 2 gigs of gddr5 vram. Better not have gimped data width either. Expecting full 384 bit or 512 bit. No less than 256. Hopefully at least a 512 cuda cores fermi GPU. Would REALLY like to see kepler.
Seriously:
A quad PPU 32 SPU cell with 4 gigs of XDR2 and 1.5 gigs 384 bit gddr5 gtx 580 an 8x blu ray drive 500 gig 3.5 inch hdd built in wireless N and more usb ports maybe even usb 3.0etc would NOT cost that much. The thing could launch at 399 499 tops. A major part of the cost of the PS3 was the expensive blu ray lazers. That shits not expensive anymore. Blu ray drive like 40 bucks RETAIL.
Seriously:
A quad PPU 32 SPU cell with 4 gigs of XDR2 and 1.5 gigs 384 bit gddr5 gtx 580 an 8x blu ray drive 500 gig 3.5 inch hdd built in wireless N and more usb ports maybe even usb 3.0etc would NOT cost that much. The thing could launch at 399 499 tops. A major part of the cost of the PS3 was the expensive blu ray lazers. That shits not expensive anymore. Blu ray drive like 40 bucks RETAIL.
H_Prestige
Banned
If Sony wanted to go the "wii" route, could they just take the ps3 as is and tweak the Cell a bit, substitute a better GPU for RSX, and quadruple the RAM? Or is it not that simple?
piSquaredOver6
Banned
It pretty much would be that simple. They might as well call it the PS3 Delux or something. I REALLY hope that doesn't happen. Technology needs to keep advancing.
LOL. Do me a favour and count the number of memory chips on the motherboard with those densities and bitrates.
As a primary CPU, the prospect of continuing the Cell is a dead end even for Sony. It's certainly dead for IBM.
vandaliser
Banned
Aye. But with all the mad engineers at sony being supplanted by useless western execs who havent got a clue i am kinda worried. And ken also not being there also is a problem.
H_Prestige
Banned
If it can get the job done, does it even matter?
vandaliser
Banned
dead end? You do realise that the cell is scalable right? and that multi treaded parallel processing is the future right? and that the backwards compatibiltity with playstation operating system, security, games all rely on the cell right? Dead end? not really.
Unless sony is ready to throw away 7 years of coding tools, huge R&D expenditure and backwards compatibility.
If Sony wanted to do what he's suggesting, they could pretty cheaply design a scaled up version of the current Cell. IBM would happily help them with that and fab it for them.
However I think if they've an eye on using fatter main cores for programmer comfort (and to be able to extract more performance from less parallelism), it's maybe more likely that they'd use a new Power design that can incorporate SPUs rather than a direct, straight-line derivation of the current Cell. It sounds like something Power8-based could accommodate that, for example. The pertinent bits of Cell could live on in IBM's next, or be accommodated depending on a client's needs. It seems like with Power8 they want a hybrid, modular architecture that can allow custom accelerators (SPUs, anyone?) to be more or less plugged in, and that could be right up Sony's alley.
Yes, the guy who nearly destroyed SCE not being there is a problem...
Vita shows Sony are capable of building great hardware in his absence. The problems with Vita for example are little to do with the hardware.
Price is a very good reason.
piSquaredOver6
Banned
umm general rule of thumb consoles release with about half the ram as midrange pcs being released at the time. notice the ps360 released with 512 and a typtcal pc launched in 2006 had about a gig of ram. a lot of midrange pcs being released today have 8 gigs of ram dude. ram is dirt cheap. and the cell is not a dead end lol. all the devs are used to programming for it now. to switch to something completelg new unless its just a bunch of general processing cores, would be nuts...
vandaliser
Banned
Yeah sure. You really think the ps3's poor start was because of ken? No. The fault lies with that fool phil harrison. Who in his infinitte wisdom decided to spend millions upon millions of dollars on games like resistance, lair, heavenly sword wtc.
If phil had any common sense they would have locked down GTA, FF, devil may cry etc which were the driving force of sony's last behometh.
Ken gave a hardware machine for the tools. Wasnt his fault the idiots at worldwide studios screwed up.
And ofcourse no one saw the wii revolution which caught sony offguard
Proelite
Member
Sony is going to wait years for a 4Gbit ram chips that might or might not come out? In the foreseeable future the max memory is 4GB split, and 2GB UMA on 256 bit bus. 512 buses would mean no cost reduction for memory board shrinks in the future, there is no way MS or Sony will go with 512 bit buses. Even AMD / Nvidia's best cards only have 384 bit buses.
MiniBossman
Member
So to summarize my dad can beat up your dad?
I agree Phil was a moron, but are you really sane in championing Kutaragi's efforts?
Bluray was an expensive monster that should have been excised from the get go. They should have added more Ram, increased the power of the GPU, and had a competent online network from the beginning.
PS4 most likely will end up being-
Cell 2.0 (with Power PC parts)
3 GB of Ram
GTX 670 equivalent
Bluray 2.0
Redesigned Move
Boom done.
Risk Breaker
Member
I wonder, wouldn't it be possible to have a Cell with say 3 or 4 PPEs and 10 SPEs? And wouldn't that work better for both multiplat and exclusive games?
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
What? BluRay was 80% of the reason I bought my PS3. And I know MANY others who did the same.
The Wii Route would be overclocking the RSX.
This is how I know when to not bother.
Proelite said:
Thank you Proelite.
gofreak said:
This is far more likely than them going with a scaled up PPE-based Cell. That is pretty much dead, unless they throw it in for backward compatibility purposes (if they were, say, going AMD x64 instead as an example). Even still, it is far more sensible for Sony to have a more standard multicore design like the other 2 console makers are going to have. Vita is a prime example of Smart Sony... at least hardware-wise.
And Blu-Ray is probably 80% of the reason why Sony have hemorrhaged so much market share and money. Expensive, late and of little benefit to all but a handful of games.
It was a nice idea in theory, but in reality it hasn't worked, and if it's true that Nextbox will have Blu-Ray, then MS have played a blinder; they've let Sony take all the pain over these last six years, while they pick up Blu-Ray now that it's [relatively] cheaper... and going to be even cheaper in two years time.
vandaliser
Banned
If SCE did not add blu ray to their ps3 sony electronics would have been crying because toshiba was playing dirty with HD DVD. Besides without blu ray you would have MGS4. Think about it!
The the rsx being nerfed (due to costs) was the only mistake made by the hardware team. SOny was selling the ps3 for 600 dollars and it costs them 1000 just to manufacture them. New tech means expensive stuff.
As for memory hindsight is a wonderful thing. Besides the ps3 uses XDR RAM which has high speed bandwidth connected to the cell so it mitigates the lack of ram somewhat. But like i said. Hindsight is a wonderful think.
As for the online department, that's for the software team to do. Like i sad' phil harrison and the moron currently in charge of SCEA have caused the biggest damage to playstation. To this day i have no idea what possessed them to spends hundreds of millions of dollars on lair, heavenly sword and resistance when they could have shoved that money elsewhere.
I mean it says something when the biggest mover of ps3s in america was a game from 2008 which was a ps3 exclusive. It always comes down to software. If a consumer sees something he wants to play he will pony up the cash. Blu ray or no blu ray. Unfortunately SCEA and SCE are run by brain dead idiots.
Paging charlequin to the thread lol
vandaliser
Banned
who is charlequin? Is it phil harrison's/jack tretton online account?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34413839&postcount=403
charlequin said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34396562&postcount=378
charlequin said:
There are more if you wish to go through his posting history.
why do people still say stuff like this?
no matter what they are making a profit on each Move Controller sold...if they some how got some gamers to buy more than one, then they did a good job selling the product to the consumer.
either way, for at least one move controller you still need a PSEYE Camera. So that was still a $80 initial investment.
and people who did get the set up, most likely got them selves a game....some other person might have got maybe another controller...or another maybe a navigation controller (like myself). All these add up for Sony.
so even if 10+ mill PSMove controllers were sold...I doubt most of them were for casuals who bought 3 additional controllers for an added $150...on top of the initial $80.
I personally look for FPS games that use the Move...MAG, Killzone, etc have spoiled me. I wish Battlefield 3 used it.
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