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[piSquaredOver6]

well according to this. it looks like they took a nose dive back in 2008 along with everyone else. but other than thet they seem pretty steady.

https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:SNE

 

[piSquaredOver6]

the better the vita does the better ps4 will be imo

 

[DCKing]

Stock value translates into "how much is a company worth", not "how well is it doing". You can't see how Sony is bleeding money on all of its businesses in the stock value, and has been losing money since 2008.

 

[mrklaw]

still don't see why people dismissing CELL. I don't see many reasoned arguments, just a lot of 'general purpose CPUs are better' or 'CELL lost them a shit ton of money'

The development costs are sunk, the learning curve is flattening out for many devs. Other developers can use better tools (provided by Sony) to help smooth out CELL development. CELL is very focused for the sort of tasks that gaming requires. Yes a next-gen CPU might crunch more numbers, but then you could have a slightly beefier CELL. But then maybe you don't need that much more power on the CPU side if you listen to those supporting a GPGPU type approach.

Cell in PS3 was handling a lot of things that the RSX should have done, but wasn't quite up to the task. Assuming a properly specced and funded GPU in PS4, there is less for the CELL to do, so a faster clocked current gen CELL on a smaller process might be enough for general housekeeping.

I'd like to see some benchmarks or even estimates of power7 type CPUs for the sorts of tasks games would require, and the sorts of things CELL is good at.

Part of this might be denial, and surprise at the idea Sony would throw away CELL. Part is also from disappointment at the idea of an AMD APU solution - hasn't bulldozer been pretty crappy so far?

as for BC, I hope they at least keep it for PSN games - I don't know if the SDKs/tools for PSN games are more abstracted/simpler than full-fat PS3 games, which might make them an easier target for software BC, but that would be enough for me.

 

[szaromir]

still don't see why people dismissing CELL. I don't see many reasoned arguments, just a lot of 'general purpose CPUs are better' or 'CELL lost them a shit ton of money'

My guess the prime reason is that Cell is a 7 years old architecture at this point and most people think that architectures that emerged since handle multithreaded programs much better and it's not worth to spend money to update Cell to current standards just for the sake for it.

 

[CLEEK]

Sony also exclusively own and run the manufacturing plant for the Cell and RSX, buying out Toshiba's stake last year.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201012/10-1224E/index.html

You would imaging that whatever CPU and GPU the PS4 uses will be made there. To re-use Cell would surely cut down on production costs and improve yields, compared to going with an 'unknown' IBM or AMD CPU.

 

[phosphor112]

No it was not. They designed the security system wrong. Then implemented the wrong design correctly. Please understand how this engineering process works. It was not in the hardware, but it was part of the most integral piece of code on the system - the piece that runs the system.

To be fair it was a seemingly minor oversight, but with grave consequences. Indeed, safety would have been mathematically guaranteed if they hadn't done this.

To address your other points: if that is so much of a problem then why doesn't the Vita use the PSP's hardware? Why doesn't the PS3 use a souped up MIPS chip like the PS2?

Did you really just compare a scalable multi-core/symmetrical system to non-scalable single cored units?

"Why didn't they go with a souped up Pentium 2" Because you can't scale up a Pentium in an exponential manner the way you can for the CBE. What kind of stupid question is that?

That's a design error. They designed their algorithm wrong. Will you guys let this go? At least until you know how to properly implement elliptic curve cryptography (like I do).

That has nothing to do with the hardware implementation or the Cell design at all. You can keep playing with semantics all you want but it's a fucking coding error whether it was an intentional in design (lol) or not. The coding they implemented allowed for a massive exploit. Keep calling it as you wish, but code that broken is a coding error, and once again, has nothing to do with the Cell.

 

[piSquaredOver6]

we should all make bets on weather it will use a cell variant or not. add 10 bucks to the "will use cell" fund from me. and no deleting your gaf account when the announcement is made.

 

[i-Lo]

we should all make bets on weather it will use a cell variant or not. add 10 bucks to the "will use cell" fund from me. and no deleting your gaf account when the announcement is made.

What if one gets banned? Also, I am sure the weather will feature overcast skies for morning.

Anyway, I think it'll be interesting to learn what PSM knows. Cold hard specs... I wonder if we'll see them this year at all.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I think that the PS4 will follow the VITA´s exemple and put all games on PSN on release day.

I think that's likely the case for both PS4 and the next Xbox. Digital distribution is a win for both publishers and platform holders. It would only be unpopular with pawn shops (GameStop).

Its not about being "as powerful as humanly possible" but about getting the most out of your silicon budget and offering the best value for money system. To hit the same power target with BC may mean an extra $50-$100 at retail for the consumer, are you happy to pay that just to free up a HDMI socket on your TV?

That's simply nonsense. Cell is still basically the best performance per watt CPU design available. There are lots of alternatives that might be better at running messy code, but they are only that way because so much of the transistor budget is spent on branch prediction and out of order execution which makes them a lot slower at the things games do most. So when a scaled up Cell not only gives you backwards compatibility, but also the best performance possible of any architecture in a given transistor and thermal budget it doesn't cost the consumer a thing. The only people mad are the people who hate Sony anyway, and the programmers who are still refusing to modernize their approach, something that will be necessary for every Next Gen system.

 

[DCKing]

Did you really just compare a scalable multi-core/symmetrical system to non-scalable single cored units?

"Why didn't they go with a souped up Pentium 2" Because you can't scale up a Pentium in an exponential manner the way you can for the CBE. What kind of stupid question is that?

I asked you a stupid question to make you understand that having to throw out your code has never been an argument to stop upgrading to new hardware. If it was, the PS3 would use a souped up MIPS like the PS2 and the Vista would have the same.

If you are not familiar with software design (most of this stuff isn't just "coding", not close to it) I guess it may be difficult to understand.

 

[phosphor112]

I asked you a stupid question to make you understand that having to throw out your code has never been an argument to stop upgrading to new hardware. If it was, the PS3 would use a souped up MIPS like the PS2 and the Vista would have the same.

If you are not familiar with software design (most of this stuff isn't just "coding", not close to it) I guess it may be difficult to understand.

I took computer science for two years before I switched to game design. While I barely broke the C/C++ barrier, I know how to make a program.

That's besides the point. Not having to start from scratch would not only benefit their first party devs, but it would also allow for superior multiplat titles from the get go.

 

[AZ2002]

Sony also exclusively own and run the manufacturing plant for the Cell and RSX, buying out Toshiba's stake last year.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201012/10-1224E/index.html

You would imaging that whatever CPU and GPU the PS4 uses will be made there. To re-use Cell would surely cut down on production costs and improve yields, compared to going with an 'unknown' IBM or AMD CPU.

i am sure that Sony will use the Cell or some parts of it in the PS4 why would they buy the plant if thats not it.

interesting read from the article above when we compare it with the playstation roadmap:

(NSM, which was established in March 2008 and is located in the Nagasaki Technology Center of Sony Semiconductor Kyushu Corporation ("SCK"), has been manufacturing the high-performance "Cell Broadband Engine™" processor, the graphics engine "RSX" and other high-performance semiconductors and leading-edge SoC (system-on-a-chip) for applications in digital consumer products of Toshiba and Sony. The facilities to be transferred would be the fabrication facilities and equipment for the 300 mm wafer line located within the Nagasaki Technology Center purchased by Toshiba from Sony and SCK and leased to NSM in 2008 and other facilities that Toshiba and Sony will agree to transfer among those in which Toshiba invested in connection with the operation by NSM after the purchase.

After due diligence on the facilities to be transferred and continuing negotiations, Toshiba and Sony aim to execute definitive agreements (with respect to the contemplated transfer of the semiconductor fabrication facilities) as soon as possible before the end of the fiscal year ending March 31, 2011. Thereafter, Toshiba and Sony aim to complete the transfer early in the fiscal year ending March 31, 2012, subject to any necessary government approvals.)

 

[AZ2002]

They haven't been profitable in a long time for many reasons. One was that they took such a massive loss on PS3 hardware, which initially supported BC but they removed it to cut costs. Also because they used BDROM and because their TVs are selling at a loss while Samsung/Sharp/Pioneer/Panasonic/Toshiba/LG/others have taken over the mid to low range TVs.

You can google to fact check stuff like this by the way. SNE is their stock. Google results for "sony massive loss".

They'll probably have to restructure. But their performance is higher risk compared to Nintendo and Microsoft, which are very profitable most of the time.

the bluray was a strategic decision that they will benefit from in the long term not just a few years and i doubt that they took it without financial feasability studies like some people thinks.the one division that keeps losing is the TV division and Sony has taken measures to correct the situation like closeing plants, cut its TV ranges radically, and to slim down the number of televisions it ships from 40 million to 20 million. the same happened to other japanese electronic companie like panasonic regarding their TV business.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2056597/Sony-TV-division-loses-2-2bn-customers-lose-flatscreens.html

 

[Log4Girlz]

Mark me down as "sorely disappointed" if the next Playstation does not have at least 3 GB of useable ram (perhaps it'll have more but dedicate some to the OS).

 

[FLEABttn]

the bluray was a strategic decision that they will benefit from in the long term not just a few years and i doubt that they took it without financial feasability studies like some people thinks

I don't think people don't think Sony neglected to do a financial feasibility study, they think Sony used poor or bad assumptions.

Which they did.

 

[AZ2002]

I don't think people don't think Sony neglected to do a financial feasibility study, they think Sony used poor or bad assumptions.

Which they did.

well they won the format war (thank god DVDs sucx) and the bluray standard will be used for years to come i am sure the royalities will cover the losses and be profitable in the long term.

 

[Log4Girlz]

well they won the format war (thank god DVDs suck) and the bluray standard will be used for years to come i am sure the royalities will cover the losses and be profitable in the long term.

When we say long-term, do you believe blu-ray will be the standard for the next century?

 

[Panajev2001a]

I asked you a stupid question to make you understand that having to throw out your code has never been an argument to stop upgrading to new hardware. If it was, the PS3 would use a souped up MIPS like the PS2 and the Vista would have the same.

If you are not familiar with software design (most of this stuff isn't just "coding", not close to it) I guess it may be difficult to understand.

What you are saying is true, but as software systems become more complex and the hardware has enough desired headroom for improvement the need of BC increases even in markets where BC has not been the key driving strength (unlike the PC market were Intel and Microsoft bet the farm on BC over the years...).

Also, looking at the proposed LRB implementation, the way GPGPU is proceeding, and the increased number of heterogeneous multi-processor designs (look at the embedded market), I would argue that CBEA is still a fundamentally forward looking design and its SPE's are something to improve and not something you should throw away. IBM is saying the same too.

 

[iceatcs]

Can blu-ray do 4K?
If so, then I think we will see blu-ray will last longer or possible a final optical disc storage before no more.

 

[FLEABttn]

well they won the format war (thank god DVDs sucx) and the bluray standard will be used for years to come i am sure the royalities will cover the losses and be profitable in the long term.

The royalties aren't really that great. At $9 a drive and $0.0975 a movie, it's a revenue stream sure, but not a great one if you spent yourself deep into the red to get there while concurrently failing to meet estimated sales goals required to make spending that kind of money worth it.

Avatar Blu-ray sales were estimated to be 6.2 million copies sold. At $0.0975 a disc, you're talking revenue of only $604,500 - for the consortium, not even Sony by itself. Unless Blu-Ray is parlayed into something bigger than DVD and longer lasting by an inordinate amount, Sony was likely better off sticking a DVD drive in the PS3 and letting the format war run its course.

 

[mrklaw]

CELL variant, 4GB RAM (minimum), 100GB bluray, kick-ass GPU using up every last scrap of R&D budget + power/thermal budget.

That'd do me.

 

[JaseC]

Can blu-ray do 4K?
If so, then I think we will see blu-ray will last longer or possible a final optical disc storage before no more.

I believe Sony are currently in the process of piecing together a 4K specification for Blu-ray (devices and discs), with a target release window of 2013.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Remember when Sony said the PS3 would use shared computing power from other consoles to make it more powerful and from appliances in people's houses? Yeah.

 

[Kinyou]

Do you guys think that the next Xbox will make a switch to Blu-rays? Sony was already mocking them at the beginning of this generation but so far have the advantages of blu rays not really shown themselves.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Do you guys think that the next Xbox will make a switch to Blu-rays?

Why wouldn't it?

It might be a custom spec like the WiiU, mind.

 

[JaseC]

Do you guys think that the next Xbox will make a switch to Blu-rays? Sony was already mocking them at the beginning of this generation but so far have the advantages of blu rays not really shown themselves.

Yes.

 

[KageMaru]

well they won the format war (thank god DVDs sucx) and the bluray standard will be used for years to come i am sure the royalities will cover the losses and be profitable in the long term.

This has already been discussed, but no way would blu-ray royalties make up for the losses.

Do you guys think that the next Xbox will make a switch to Blu-rays? Sony was already mocking them at the beginning of this generation but so far have the advantages of blu rays not really shown themselves.

If they want to market their next console to be the center of the living room (or whatever BS), they would be stupid not to have blu-ray.

 

[Kinyou]

Ah yeah, I guess from a multimedia point of view it's the only logical choice

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Mark me down as "sorely disappointed" if the next Playstation does not have at least 3 GB of useable ram (perhaps it'll have more but dedicate some to the OS).

Unless memory densities double REALLY soon I wouldn't expect more than 2 gigs.

 

[LosDaddie]

Do you guys think that the next Xbox will make a switch to Blu-rays?

It would be a huge mistake if not.

This has already been discussed, but no way would blu-ray royalties make up for the losses..

It has, and still keeps being brought up. :lol There was someone a few pages back who was arguing with me about it. Charlequin has some excellent thoughts on the subject.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I believe Sony are currently in the process of piecing together a 4K specification for Blu-ray (devices and discs), with a target release window of 2013.

Speculated requirements:
1) standard blu-ray drive that can read a 4 layer disk and is more than 2X speed.
2) CPU powerful enough to support h.265 (HEVC)
3) Enough frame buffer memory to support 4K

= Current Specs for a PS3 SLIM

Sony is releasing this year a 1080P blu-ray player that upscales to 4K which would have the above and should support 4K blu-ray with a firmware update TO SUPPORT H.265 when that codec standard is published Jan 2013.

The advantage for Sony is that their investment in blu-ray manufacturing equipment is safe...can be used to produce 4k blu-ray disks.

 

[RoboPlato]

Can blu-ray do 4K?
If so, then I think we will see blu-ray will last longer or possible a final optical disc storage before no more.

It can once the capacity gets a huge boost. It'll probably require newer players though. They're working on the spec for it now.

EDIT: Beaten with more info.

 

[KageMaru]

It has, and still keeps being brought up. :lol There was someone a few pages back who was arguing with me about it. Charlequin has some excellent thoughts on the subject.

Yeah his post is what I was referring to actually. His thoughts mirror my own on the matter so it's pointless to really write the same thing down. =p

 

[patsu]

The royalties aren't really that great. At $9 a drive and $0.0975 a movie, it's a revenue stream sure, but not a great one if you spent yourself deep into the red to get there while concurrently failing to meet estimated sales goals required to make spending that kind of money worth it.

Avatar Blu-ray sales were estimated to be 6.2 million copies sold. At $0.0975 a disc, you're talking revenue of only $604,500 - for the consortium, not even Sony by itself. Unless Blu-Ray is parlayed into something bigger than DVD and longer lasting by an inordinate amount, Sony was likely better off sticking a DVD drive in the PS3 and letting the format war run its course.

Blu-ray is not only about royalties. It's about rejuvenating DVD sales. DVD sales has tanked. DD doesn't do a thing for movie purchase. It's mostly a rental thing. Blu-ray helps to improve home video sales. It's still not as big as the DVD decline but it's improving.

Sony has end-to-end coverage for the BR value chain. Besides the royalties, they also press the discs (They are the largest in the world), sell the BR authoring software and professional equipments, provide consulting services, makes Blu-ray diodes for all blue laser devices.

They also use BR for their gaming media since DVD is not quite enough as some devs have complained and bumped into the limit.

They invested heavily in 3D, which is spearheaded by BR and gaming. It looks like they will reuse it for 4K because it's pretty much the only universal physical format today. BR is also starting to hook up with the universal DRM format called UltraViolet. Early implementations have fumbled miserably, but the unified DRM concept is compelling. We'll have to see if the studios can execute. Basically, BR is an evolving business and vision for Sony and the movie industry.

 

[FLEABttn]

Blu-ray is not only about royalties. It's about rejuvenating DVD sales. DVD sales has tanked. DD doesn't do a thing for movie purchase. It's mostly a rental thing. Blu-ray helps to improve home video sales. It's still not as big as the DVD decline but it's improving.

Sony has end-to-end coverage for the BR value chain. Besides the royalties, they also press the discs (They are the largest in the world), sell the BR authoring software and professional equipments, provide consulting services, makes Blu-ray diodes for all blue laser devices.

They also use BR for their gaming media since DVD is not quite enough as some devs have complained and bumped into the limit.

They invested heavily in 3D, which is spearheaded by BR and gaming. It looks like they will reuse it for 4K because it's pretty much the only universal physical format today. BR is also starting to hook up with the universal DRM format called UltraViolet. Early implementations have fumbled miserably, but the unified DRM concept is compelling. We'll have to see if the studios can execute. Basically, BR is an evolving business and vision for Sony and the movie industry.

I'm not saying that Blu-Ray wasn't a part or central theme in a movie industry business plan, but I am saying that using the PS3 as a trojan horse to win a format war, 5ish years into the business plan, still wasn't a good call. At some point in the future, maybe it will show to have been a money maker, but even then, at what opportunity cost?

 

[Tarin02543]

Any chances will see 100GB+ BR discs on ps4? Do those things even exist?

 

[patsu]

What you are saying is true, but as software systems become more complex and the hardware has enough desired headroom for improvement the need of BC increases even in markets where BC has not been the key driving strength (unlike the PC market were Intel and Microsoft bet the farm on BC over the years...).

Also, looking at the proposed LRB implementation, the way GPGPU is proceeding, and the increased number of heterogeneous multi-processor designs (look at the embedded market), I would argue that CBEA is still a fundamentally forward looking design and its SPE's are something to improve and not something you should throw away. IBM is saying the same too.

Yes, there are fundamental design principles that can be reused elsewhere. I remember when the LRB concept was being marketed, some people scorned at heterogeneous cores, but look at where we are heading now.

I hope they pay more attention to web tech though, things like HTML5 may become more important everywhere. The CPU and memory should run WebKit well. It would be more interesting from gaming perspective to make the SPUs work better with the GPU. But most graphics R&D are based around GPU architectures, so it would not be easy to do differently.

It will be interesting to see how Sony decides on the final design.

 

[AZ2002]

When we say long-term, do you believe blu-ray will be the standard for the next century?

oh you no really Sony Pictures Entertainment has posted $ 7.3 billion in revenue for 2010 thanx to the bluray and this is not a small figure as you can see here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Entertainment#cite_note-FY10-2

 

[KageMaru]

Blu-ray is not only about royalties. It's about rejuvenating DVD sales. DVD sales has tanked. DD doesn't do a thing for movie purchase. It's mostly a rental thing. Blu-ray helps to improve home video sales. It's still not as big as the DVD decline but it's improving.

Sony has end-to-end coverage for the BR value chain. Besides the royalties, they also press the discs (They are the largest in the world), sell the BR authoring software and professional equipments, provide consulting services, makes Blu-ray diodes for all blue laser devices.

They also use BR for their gaming media since DVD is not quite enough as some devs have complained and bumped into the limit.

They invested heavily in 3D, which is spearheaded by BR and gaming. It looks like they will reuse it for 4K because it's pretty much the only universal physical format today. BR is also starting to hook up with the universal DRM format called UltraViolet. Early implementations have fumbled miserably, but the unified DRM concept is compelling. We'll have to see if the studios can execute. Basically, BR is an evolving business and vision for Sony and the movie industry.

All that and it still won't make up for the billions lost.

 

[LeBoef]

Am I the only one thinking optical discs are outdated?

 

[patsu]

All that and it still won't make up for the billions lost.

I'm not saying that Blu-Ray wasn't a part or central theme in a movie industry business plan, but I am saying that using the PS3 as a trojan horse to win a format war, 5ish years into the business plan, still wasn't a good call. At some point in the future, maybe it will show to have been a money maker, but even then, at what opportunity cost?

Well, saving Sony's studios and the movie industry is not a small job. HD-DVD won't be able to carry this far since it was gimped, and only championed by Toshiba to protect their DVD royalties. MS's interest is in the online part only. So something has to be there for the movie industry to march on. They are lucky to have BDA help move the industry forward with one unified voice. It would be terrible if the world fall back on red laser DVD, and DD only.

The BR's innovation centers on blue laser. Nintendo WiiU is said to adopt blue laser too. The strategic move has been decided. Sony committed and championed it. Along the way, they derive more ways to fund themselves.

EDIT: I believe in the reorgs, Sony shutdown some operations to save billions. That company has picked up a lot of fat along the way. So they should be able to fund both BR and SCE independently. The problem now is also partly due to Yen. Nintendo and other Japanese CE companies not having an easy time too.

While BR did slow PS3 down at the beginning, but I think it is overly simplistic to brand BR as SCE's weight (so called billions lost ^_^). BR helps to sell PS3 and lots a HDTVs too. Sony made a lot of mistakes, and found many deficiencies along the way. BR is not responsible for them. The good thing is they seem to have wised up a bit. They will still continue to make mistakes, but I think overall BR and PS3 have made Sony stronger. The TV business though is more uncertain. They have not made any large leap akin to BR and Cell there to differentiate or extend, and it shows.

 

[AZ2002]

on the subject of Sony proftability this year PSN and Sony entertainment network (music unlimited,Video Unlimited) revenue reached $1 billion according to Sony America CFO here.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/12/sony-exec-defends-combination-of-technology-and-entertainment-ubs-confab/

 

[Tarin02543]

Am I the only one thinking optical discs are outdated?

No. I'd like to see a return to cartridges.

 

[Curufinwe]

No. I'd like to see a return to cartridges.

Not practical for 25+ GB games.

 

[AZ2002]

Well, saving Sony's studios and the movie industry is not a small job. HD-DVD won't be able to carry this far since it was gimped, and only championed by Toshiba to protect their DVD royalties. MS's interest is in the online part only. So something has to be there for the movie industry to march on. They are lucky to have BDA help move the industry forward with one unified voice. It would be a terrible if the world fall back on red laser DVD, and DD only.

The BR's innovation centers on blue laser. Nintendo WiiU is said to adopt blue laser too. The strategic move has been decided. Sony committed and championed it. Along the way, they derive more ways to fund themselves.

While BR did slow PS3 down at the beginning, but I think it is overly simplistic to brand BR as SCE's weight (so called billions lost ^_^). BR helps to sell PS3 and lots a HDTVs too. Sony made a lot of mistakes, and found many deficiencies along the way. BR is not responsible for them. The good thing is they seem to have wised up a bit. They will still continue to make mistakes, but I think overall BR and PS3 have made Sony stronger. The TV business though is more uncertain. They have not made any large leap akin to BR and Cell there to differentiate or extend, and it shows.

some people really think that a big multi-national company like Sony took the decision to use bluray on a whim without feasability studies and what are the benefits and costs of their decision LOL

 

[FLEABttn]

While BR did slow PS3 down at the beginning, but I think it is overly simplistic to brand BR as SCE's weight (so called billions lost ^_^). BR helps to sell PS3 and lots a HDTVs too. Sony made a lot of mistakes, and found many deficiencies along the way. BR is not responsible for them. The good thing is they seem to have wised up a bit. They will still continue to make mistakes, but I think overall BR and PS3 have made Sony stronger. The TV business though is more uncertain. They have not made any large leap akin to BR and Cell there to differentiate or extend, and it shows.

BR added cost and delayed the release of the PS3. It was a key reason why Sony went from an overwhelming first place to third to fighting for second. HDTV sales don't help so much when people aren't buying Sony's. Blu-ray being forced into the PS3 was damaging to the brand.

on the subject of Sony proftability this year PSN and Sony entertainment network (music unlimited,Video Unlimited) revenue reached $1 billion according to Sony America CFO here.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/12/sony-exec-defends-combination-of-technology-and-entertainment-ubs-confab/

Revenue isn't profit. Revenue is sales without cost subtracted off.

 

[AZ2002]

BR added cost and delayed the release of the PS3. It was a key reason why Sony went from an overwhelming first place to third to fighting for second. HDTV sales don't help so much when people aren't buying Sony's. Blu-ray being forced into the PS3 was damaging to the brand.



Revenue isn't profit. Revenue is sales without cost subtracted off.

i know i just post it as an indication cause some people said that the PSN isnt profitable like XBL. the service usage is also free imagine if they add a small subscription fee or expanded the plus program.

 

[KageMaru]

Well, saving Sony's studios and the movie industry is not a small job. HD-DVD won't be able to carry this far since it was gimped, and only championed by Toshiba to protect their DVD royalties. MS's interest is in the online part only. So something has to be there for the movie industry to march on. They are lucky to have BDA help move the industry forward with one unified voice. It would be terrible if the world fall back on red laser DVD, and DD only.

The BR's innovation centers on blue laser. Nintendo WiiU is said to adopt blue laser too. The strategic move has been decided. Sony committed and championed it. Along the way, they derive more ways to fund themselves.

EDIT: I believe in the reorgs, Sony shutdown some operations to save billions. That company has picked up a lot of fat along the way. So they should be able to fund both BR and SCE independently. The problem now is also partly due to Yen. Nintendo and other Japanese CE companies not having an easy time too.

While BR did slow PS3 down at the beginning, but I think it is overly simplistic to brand BR as SCE's weight (so called billions lost ^_^). BR helps to sell PS3 and lots a HDTVs too. Sony made a lot of mistakes, and found many deficiencies along the way. BR is not responsible for them. The good thing is they seem to have wised up a bit. They will still continue to make mistakes, but I think overall BR and PS3 have made Sony stronger. The TV business though is more uncertain. They have not made any large leap akin to BR and Cell there to differentiate or extend, and it shows.

Either you're using this oppurtunity to champion blu-ray or am just missing the point.

Regardless, as I mentioned before, this has been discussed before, so I'd look up past posts on this subject.

 

[vandaliser]

I asked you a stupid question to make you understand that having to throw out your code has never been an argument to stop upgrading to new hardware. If it was, the PS3 would use a souped up MIPS like the PS2 and the Vista would have the same.

If you are not familiar with software design (most of this stuff isn't just "coding", not close to it) I guess it may be difficult to understand.

you are having a laugh mate.


The reason sony ditched the ps2 cpu was because it reached a dead end. You could not do jack shit with it anymore. You could never improve it. It's end point was realised. There was a need for a new processor

So when they went with the cell they had to dump all their ps2 generation code and APIS

The difference this time my friend is that the cell IS SCALABLE You know what that means?

It means you can add more SPUS, more PPEs, increase local storage. All the power a new generation console requires

Do you get it? Increase. Build on top of what you have. And You dont have to throw away any code you accumulated for the last 7 years. You can play all your ps3 games on the ps4. You dont have to redesign PSN, XMB, the operating system, the cell security system etc etc.

It means developers whether they are first, second or third dont have to go through another steep learning curve. It's straight into the game right away.


Seriously, how hard is to grasp this simple point.