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[Deleted member 17706]

They really aren't sales, either. Because if I go buy Assassin's Creed, I have not in any way affected the initial development of the game I'm purchasing. It doesn't work that way in this scenario with Double Fine. Furthermore, Double Fine could go belly up tomorrow and I probably won't be getting my money back unless there was a contractual clause saying so (there isn't). They truly make no guarantee as far as I can see.

I would classify the game copies as promotional material, frankly. Freebies or kickbacks you get from investing early that aren't necessarily reported as revenue. Hell, maybe even take a tax cut there.

What does it cost them to provide these copies again? No more than the cost bandwidth or thereabout. That's why you see this coming to fruition in the digital era and not before.

I like to call this type of thing "democratic patronage". It's like the patronage systems for musicians and bards in olden times, but for the modern era and by the masses.

People group together to fund their artist/creator of choice in exchange for a work of art/product that they hope to enjoy.

 

[Family Fry]

Glad Kickstarter is getting some good promo, I donated some cash earlier last year for funding of another point n click game called Cognition, check it out.
http://www.postudios.com/cognition/
Double Fine's budget is crazy but we will see who makes the better game in the end.
I donated to double fine too, you gotta support the adventure scene.

 

[RadiantRule]

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

 

[megalowho]

But... they *are* sales. Each one gets a copy of the game. You can spend as much as you like above the $15 mark to get the game. They're as much a sale as a humble indie bundle purchase is... just it's a purchase of the *promise* of the game.

Pretty much my thoughts. Preorder this thing you guys have always told us you wanted, and if we get enough preorders, we can actually afford to set aside the resources to make it. THE ULTIMATE PREORDER

If folks don't have faith that their money will be put to good use or they will ever see a worthwhile product or return on their investment, then you should not be contributing. There's nothing wrong with that, there is a degree of trust involved. But selfishly, I'm very happy so many out there have.

 

[vireland]

Very interesting. Keep us posted.

Will do. Ours is a little different in that there's a choice of physical deluxe pack OR download, not just download. Justice for the collectors, and the physical is limited. The Kickstarter project will be live next week when the games are announced.

 

[mclem]

They really aren't sales, either. Because if I go buy Assassin's Creed, I have not in any way affected the initial development of the game I'm purchasing. It doesn't work that way in this scenario with Double Fine. Furthermore, Double Fine could go belly up tomorrow and I probably won't be getting my money back unless there was a contractual clause saying so (there isn't). They truly make no guarantee as far as I can see.

I would classify the game copies as promotional material, frankly. Freebies or kickbacks you get from investing early that aren't necessarily reported as revenue. Hell, maybe even take a tax cut there.

What does it cost them to provide these copies again? No more than the cost bandwidth or thereabout. That's why you see this coming to fruition in the digital era and not before.

I went for a tour of the factory that makes the Mini a couple of years ago. Did you know that they make a great many Minis to order? People make a set of requests, those get pushed onto the queue, and a few weeks later, out pops their Mini.

As far as I can tell, by your argument: Because that Mini wasn't made in advance for them to purchase, therefore they did not buy it.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

Hopefully pay their programmers more!

 

[Stumpokapow]

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

Like they mention on the page:

- More platforms (Mac and iOS would be the most obvious, console DD services would be next)
- More languages (the initial amount was intended only for an English release)
- Better and more Voice Acting
- Better and more funding for the documentary crew (remember, this isn't just to fund a game, it's to fund a documentary about making a game as well)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

Read the damn Kickstarter page?

 

[~Kinggi~]

Lmao, 1 million, this is amazing. I have to say this is one of the best gaming news pieces ive heard in a long time.

 

[louiedog]

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

The characters in the game will be voiced by the cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Also, it's a spiritual successor to Gargoyles.

 

[RotBot]

Unless you're assuming that they are going to take the money and run and not release the game, they're sales. They get a copy of the game.



I'll bet you $250 USD of my money against $25 of your money that the project comes out. Will you take the bet? If not, what odds would I have to offer you?

I'm not saying that it's not a sale for all intents and purposes, or in the minds of backers, just that you have no recourse to get your money back if the project has long delays or doesn't pan out at all like you would with a proper sale. Double Fine is a developer with a strong track record, so I have no doubt they'll get a product released, and reasonably on time.

But there have been plenty of projects set up by people with little experience on Kickstarter who got in over their heads, delivered nothing, and pissed off their backers. A lot of those backers thought they were committing to a purchase. Nope.

Anyone who wants to know how Kickstarter operates should read http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/20/2644358/kickstarter-success-product-development-revolution

 

[Felix Lighter]

It's semantics. Whether or not it's officially considered an investment or a sale, doesn't ultimately make a difference to me. I pay $15, I get a game. I know there is a minuscule risk involved but, in my opinion, it's an insignificant risk. They have the funds to develop the game, they have the team with a proven track record and Tim Schafer isn't going to throw it all away in an elaborate scheme to steal fan's money.

 

[SteveWinwood]

The characters in the game will be voiced by the cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Also, it's a spiritual successor to Gargoyles.

I'll up my donation to 50 if that was true.

 

[RadiantRule]

Like they mention on the page:

- More platforms (Mac and iOS would be the most obvious, console DD services would be next)
- More languages (the initial amount was intended only for an English release)
- Better and more Voice Acting
- Better and more funding for the documentary crew (remember, this isn't just to fund a game, it's to fund a documentary about making a game as well)

Well, they better release that game on consoles.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Well, they better release that game on consoles.

Why?

 

[Jintor]

That Ankh comparison is almost certainly a troll.

 

[Yasae]

This is probably a failing on my part, but I'm struggling to see your point.

I'm saying you can't legally classify them as only sales because they are involved with direct funding of a project - and especially not with the terms "backer" which directly implies investing in the traditional sense. I have a very strong feeling that would not hold up in court (even with our heavy corporate bias).

Now maybe they've found a loophole with the Kickstarter terms and that's fine. I haven't read up on it enough myself.

But if I were out to do this, I would simply give my investors nothing because they don't know better. And no, a copy of the game and documentary and whatever else does not equal profit sharing like most investors get.

 

[Khezu]

I can understand being a little skeptical if they they did this right after finishing brutal legend, as there track record was pretty so/so when it comes to delivering games, but since then they have really got there shit in gear. They have released 5 games in the last two years of similar size to this, and did several ports of them.

Unless something fucking crazy happens, I don't see them screwing this up.

 

[Orayn]

That Ankh comparison is almost certainly a troll.

"This was posted in a thread about Kickstarter on /v/." was the first thing that came to my mind. The resemblance to their other trolling images is uncanny.

 

[plagiarize]

They really aren't sales, either. Because if I go buy Assassin's Creed, I have not in any way affected the initial development of the game I'm purchasing. It doesn't work that way in this scenario with Double Fine. Furthermore, Double Fine could go belly up tomorrow and I probably won't be getting my money back unless there was a contractual clause saying so (there isn't). They truly make no guarantee as far as I can see.

I would classify the game copies as promotional material, frankly. Freebies or kickbacks you get from investing early that aren't necessarily reported as revenue. Hell, maybe even take a tax cut there.

What does it cost them to provide these copies again? No more than the cost bandwidth or thereabout. That's why you see this coming to fruition in the digital era and not before.

there is no guarantee that a pre-ordered game won't get cancelled...

 

[Jocchan]

I'll bet you $250 USD of my money against $25 of your money that the project comes out. Will you take the bet? If not, what odds would I have to offer you?

With all these bets, you're going to be able to fund another point and click adventure in no time.

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

Change them to nickels, fill a large pool, and start a swimming contest. Several employees suffer minor injuries.

 

[plagiarize]

I'm saying you can't legally classify them as only sales because they are involved with direct funding of a project - and especially not with the terms "backer" which directly implies investing in the traditional sense. I have a very strong feeling that would not hold up in court (even with our heavy corporate bias).

Now maybe they've found a loophole with the Kickstarter terms and that's fine. I haven't read up on it enough myself.

But if I were out to do this, I would simply give my investors nothing because they don't know better. And no, a copy of the game and documentary and whatever else does not equal profit sharing like most investors get.

so?

 

[taoofjord]

It's semantics. Whether or not it's officially considered an investment or a sale, doesn't ultimately make a difference to me. I pay $15, I get a game. I know there is a minuscule risk involved but, in my opinion, it's an insignificant risk. They have the funds to develop the game, they have the team with a proven track record and Tim Schafer isn't going to throw it all away in an elaborate scheme to steal fan's money.

Plus, who the hell doesn't like Tim Schafer? He seems like the nicest guy in the world. I'm happy to donate to the project, even if I think most of the games he's made since Grim Fandango stink. I've been hoping he'd go back to the adventure genre for a while as that's what he and his team does best.

 

[RadiantRule]

Why?

Because I'd rather play it on a console?

 

[Yasae]

there is no guarantee that a pre-ordered game won't get cancelled...

Ah, but you get your money back if it does.

 

[SteveWinwood]

"This was posted in a thread about Kickstarter on /v/." was the first thing that came to my mind. The resemblance to their other trolling images is uncanny.

It's that damn font.

 

[RiccochetJ]

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

Hopefully the scope will increase! Also, I hope they do the ports they mentioned Apple products/Android/Linux etc.

And don't look now, but they're closing in on excess of $700,000

 

[D4Danger]

edit; nvm. jumped in the middle of a conversation and misread the post.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm not saying that it's not a sale for all intents and purposes, or in the minds of backers, just that you have no recourse to get your money back if the project has long delays or doesn't pan out at all like you would with a proper sale. Double Fine is a developer with a strong track record, so I have no doubt they'll get a product released, and reasonably on time.

Unless anyone wants to make a credible argument that Double Fine isn't going to release the game, this to me seems silly to the point of concern trolling. When you buy a return plane ticket, it counts as buying a return plane ticket, even if the airline could go bankrupt after you leave and before you come back and then maybe you might have to pay extra to get home or maybe your luggage is lost or... Yeah, okay, but we can simplify that to "it's not gonna happen".

But there have been plenty of projects set up by people with little experience on Kickstarter who got in over their heads, delivered nothing, and pissed off their backers. A lot of those backers thought they were committing to a purchase. Nope.

Right, but this isn't one of those scenarios.

I mean, imagine a line from 0 to 100 where 100 is "I'm certain that the sun isn't going to crash into the earth tomorrow" and 0 is "I'm basically a degenerate gambler betting on a cock fight, I have no idea if Mr. Destroyer is going to beat Captain Peckles", if the average Kickstarter project is a 50 and the people who got burned were probably donating to 30s, this project is obviously like a 95 or higher... It's just a non-issue to me.

There's a reason why I offered the cash bet. If you wouldn't take a 10:1 or a 100:1 bet on something or a 1000:1 or a 10000:1... is it really worth your time trying to defend the long position? *shrugs*

 

[Orayn]

It's that damn font.

Plus the way the talking points are set up. Some of them are just grounded enough that it might give you pause as to whether or not it's pure trolling.

 

[Minsc]

One million, awesome. They could do a dozen or so updates over the next 32 days, to continue getting more people to back them, drop a few more tempting hints about the soundtrack or extras in the $30 tier to get people to up their backing amounts, or just put out some other nice teases to keep the interest up over the month. I'm sure whatever they do, it'll continue in the excellent way they've handled it all so far.

I'm really glad to see it succeed to this degree already, hopefully it's the start of many good things.

 

[RotBot]

there is no guarantee that a pre-ordered game won't get cancelled...

But you're guaranteed your money back if it does get cancelled.

People worried about that happening with Double Fine are spreading FUD. But keep it in mind if you decided to back a smaller project.

Unless anyone wants to make a credible argument that Double Fine isn't going to release the game, this to me seems silly to the point of concern trolling. When you buy a return plane ticket, it counts as buying a return plane ticket, even if the airline could go bankrupt after you leave and before you come back and then maybe you might have to pay extra to get home or maybe your luggage is lost or... Yeah, okay, but we can simplify that to "it's not gonna happen".

I've never claimed it would happen to this game. Just offering a waring to anyone just learning about Kickstarter and wants to back other projects.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Because I'd rather play it on a console?

I hope this isn't released on console. PC KB/M or Touch Devices are much better fits for the genre.

 

[Yasae]

no you don't.

Actually most of the preorders I've done - yes, you absolutely do. I suppose it depends on the company.

edit; nvm. jumped in the middle of a conversation and misread the post.

No harm no foul.

 

[Dog Problems]

I hope this isn't released on console. PC KB/M or Touch Devices are much better fits for the genre.

I can't imagine playing a game like that on console. Having to drag the cursor all around the screen. But I know some are on Xbox Live Arcade so I guess it works.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Actually most of the preorders I've done - yes, you absolutely do. I suppose it depends on the company.

But what if GameStop is the company that goes bankrupt? Or if Obama prints so much fiat currency that it becomes worthless and only bricks of gold can buy things? How can you be sure you'll get your money back? These are all crazy hypotheticals

 

[catabarez]

I hope this isn't released on console. PC KB/M or Touch Devices are much better fits for the genre.

God forbid it gets released to a broader audience.

 

[mclem]

I'm saying you can't legally classify them as only sales because they are involved with direct funding of a project - and especially not with the terms "backer" which directly implies investing in the traditional sense. I have a very strong feeling that would not hold up in court (even with our heavy corporate bias).

I should point out that my post that started all this hoo-hah was in response to someone who wondered if it'd get any *sales* because at the moment it looks like it's giving lots of copies away; I was trying to note that - as far as the finances are concerned - a donation now is *essentially* the same as a sale in the future. If it had *no* 'real' sales, it wouldn't matter, because it has already met its development budget.

(In principle, of course. Budgets *can* creep. But there's a lot of space for it to creep into, now)

 

[chiablo]

I would love it if this caught the attention of Valve so that they integrated a kickstarter-style system into Steam.

 

[Orayn]

I hope this isn't released on console. PC KB/M or Touch Devices are much better fits for the genre.

They're more efficient, but adventure games have pretty much the simplest control requirements of any genre.

 

[plagiarize]

I should point out that my post that started all this hoo-hah was in response to someone who wondered if it'd get any *sales* because at the moment it looks like it's giving lots of copies away; I was trying to note that - as far as the finances are concerned - a donation now is *essentially* the same as a sale in the future. If it had *no* 'real' sales, it wouldn't matter, because it has already met its development budget.

(In principle, of course. Budgets *can* creep. But there's a lot of space for it to creep into, now)

exactly. the project is funded. it doesn't need to pay back the investors anything other than the finished project, so it doesn't need to 'sell' a single copy. to be a success it just needs to come in on budget. baring a massive unforeseen disaster, it's already a success,

 

[RiccochetJ]

Can't believe that people think Double Fine won't deliver after this. I'm just going to quote a post Stumpokapow made earlier today in regards to Double Fine's track record...

To elaborate on your "professional track record" thing, in the last 18 months, Double Fine has shipped 4 new games (Costume Quest, Stacking, Trenched, OUAM), 2 ports (Psychonauts Mac + PC update, Costume Quest PC), 2 non-game applications (Action Happy Funtime Whatever, Psychonauts Vault), and they're about to ship 2 more ports (Stacking PC, Trenched PC)... plus DLC for all four of the games they shipped.

It's pretty clear they'll get a project done once they start it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

God forbid it gets released to a broader audience.

Unless the broader audience are reading about the project on their PS3 jeff_rigby approved Webkit browsers, they almost certainly have a computer capable of running this game

 

[funkystudent]

So, what will they do with the excess $600,000?

Hire Nolan North to do VO.

Duh.

 

[catabarez]

Unless the broader audience are reading about the project on their PS3 jeff_rigby approved Webkit browsers, they almost certainly have a computer capable of running this game

Hey we are in a recession

 

[jett]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz5g9jalYh1qhbud5o1_500.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ZcKlz.gif

 

[Hot Coldman]

Unless the broader audience are reading about the project on their PS3 jeff_rigby approved Webkit browsers, they almost certainly have a computer capable of running this game

OK, look, I know we're all a bit excited, but let's not be saying anything about any groundbreaking browser technology we might regret, alright? Clear heads, people!

 

[IblisGinjo]

exactly. the project is funded. it doesn't need to pay back the investors anything other than the finished project, so it doesn't need to 'sell' a single copy. to be a success it just needs to come in on budget. baring a massive unforeseen disaster, it's already a success,

Agreed, and what about DoubleFine and others devs just making games because they like it and not being overly concerned about profits. The developers get paid and make games they love and gamers get the type of games they want.

This way they can make games for the love of it and still bring home a paycheck.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I would love it if this caught the attention of Valve so that they integrated a kickstarter-style system into Steam.

NO! Bad Chaiblo. I don't want anyone using it as the main source of transaction. It won't make sense. It's called "Kickstarter" for a reason: it's for those that don't have revenue and need some sort of assurance that people want a product. Valve has everything they need. Everything. The only reason they work with EA is they dont want to print discs, ship them, keep track of it, erc. On PC, they're their own publishers.

Last thing I want is Valve keeping games on ransom and making it only when people pay, despite them having the money.