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[Gully State]

Ok, so what makes that lane "easy"? From what I can tell from my aimless wandering around, all the lanes are pretty similar: Lots of little imp things and flaming turret death at every turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-WTvUuvm00&list=UUZsM8MOy0VC9blj_wBkbo-g&index=3&feature=plcp

This video specifically addresses that question. I highly suggest you subscribe to his channel as he does a lot of coaching.

A proper tutorial would alleviate a LOT of the initial learning wall. Thankfully, it looks like it's planned, but as-is, the game seems to assume that you're already familiar with this genre. The funny thing about the genre (which is called Moba?) is that, at least in Dota 2, there's a lot of just waiting around. The three games I've played online have involved a lot of run forward, kill a few imps, then retreat and regenerate, then repeat. Then, when you do come across another player, everybody just unloads all their special abilities and starts hacking away at each other. I hate to say that there isn't much strategy to it, but to a new person, it certainly seems that way.

I'm curious what exactly do you mean by a proper tutorial? I don't think a simple tutorial mode is going to do anything to help with the learning curve. If anything, it's going to be figuring out some way to reward veterans to properly teach beginners.

Indeed. The Dota2 UI definitely isn't very user friendly. I appreciate that it's great for people who are familiar with the game, but the lack of tooltips makes some stuff tricky. Heck, at one point I was waiting for my guy to slowly mosey back up to the front lines after yet another grisly death and came across a button that, from the voiceover, appears to fortify my team's structures. The thing is, there wasn't any cost associated with this action, so I'm a little confused as to why you wouldn't click that button.

And then, in the one bot match I tried, I ended up controlling a donkey for some reason...

I wouldn't go as far as to say the UI is user unfriendly. It has moreso to do with not understanding the game yet. I think once you understand the game, everything makes sense. Like I think putting in a search bar for the store is a great idea. Rather than search through many pages, you can just type in the item name.

 

[vehn]

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I'm getting pretty tired of all the "I'm new, what do I do" posts on pretty much every page. I was new in december to dota, but I read guides, watched videos/live streams of pro matches and played with my friend (I know not everybody has friends who also play dota) and learned the basics and studied starter heroes myself.

I understand it's hard but we have a big OP full with guides/streams/videos/tips. The games learn tab has every hero with abilities and there is bot play (which is kinda hard to find I suppose).

Again, not trying to sound like a dick but every few posts it seems like nobody reads anything in this thread and 3 posts later asks the same questions. (What hero do I start with? What do I do? Is there a tutorial? etc.)

I just got the beta a few days ago. Do you have any tips on where beginners can learn the game, being that you started not too long ago as well?

 

[Corum]

I'm still a complete newbie however after reading a few of the guides, games against bots and just concentrating on learning as much as possible, I played my first game with Skeleton King and dominated (against newbies, perhaps worse than me!) but it was such a rush. Love this game (until I, inevitably, lose lots).

 

[JustinBB7]

I just got the beta a few days ago. Do you have any tips on where beginners can learn the game, being that you started not too long ago as well?

Nice trolling.

I'm still a complete newbie however after reading a few of the guides, games against bots and just concentrating on learning as much as possible, I played my first game with Skeleton King and dominated (against newbies, perhaps worse than me!) but it was such a rush. Love this game (until I, inevitably, lose lots).

That's they way to do it. Skeleton King is a great starter hero. A stun/damage attack and passives are really helpful. Specially his ult so you come back alive. Saves a lot of deaths.

 

[Vlad]

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I'm getting pretty tired of all the "I'm new, what do I do" posts on pretty much every page. I was new in december to dota, but I read guides, watched videos/live streams of pro matches and played with my friend (I know not everybody has friends who also play dota) and learned the basics and studied starter heroes myself.

I understand it's hard but we have a big OP full with guides/streams/videos/tips. The games learn tab has every hero with abilities and there is bot play (which is kinda hard to find I suppose).

Again, not trying to sound like a dick but every few posts it seems like nobody reads anything in this thread and 3 posts later asks the same questions. (What hero do I start with? What do I do? Is there a tutorial? etc.)

Well, seeing as I'm the new person who started this conversation, I may as well respond...

Should this thread be only for people who are well-versed in the game? If so, I'd be perfectly happy participating in a thread entirely for Dota newbies. Otherwise, what's wrong with new players sharing their experiences with the game?

That, and I don't think I've ever seen a game with such a weird learning curve. There have been so many suggestions in this thread for someone to learn by watching replays from the pros. I have never seen a game where that'd be a suggestion to someone just starting out. Personally, I think watching some expert play would be totally lost on me, given that I'm still figuring out the rules and terminology of the game. Trying to participate in existing conversations wouldn't really work out too well, either, as most people here are far more familiar than myself. The few guides that I have perused so far have only listed the skills of the various heroes, and I hadn't come across one yet that mention who's good to start with.

Even if they did, there seems to be enough variation in everybody's opinion as to who's good to start with that I figured it'd be nice to ask here anyway, just to get the opinions of the locals.

 

[JustinBB7]

Well, seeing as I'm the new person who started this conversation, I may as well respond...

Should this thread be only for people who are well-versed in the game? If so, I'd be perfectly happy participating in a thread entirely for Dota newbies. Otherwise, what's wrong with new players sharing their experiences with the game?

No that's not the problem, it's seriously the same question every few posts that bothers me a little. While all that information is already in the OP and in guides everywhere. I don't mind helping out. I'm no pro at all. But half this thread is now always about answering the same questions I just noticed.

That, and I don't think I've ever seen a game with such a weird learning curve. There have been so many suggestions in this thread for someone to learn by watching replays from the pros. I have never seen a game where that'd be a suggestion to someone just starting out. Personally, I think watching some expert play would be totally lost on me, given that I'm still figuring out the rules and terminology of the game. Trying to participate in existing conversations wouldn't really work out too well, either, as most people here are far more familiar than myself. The few guides that I have perused so far have only listed the skills of the various heroes, and I hadn't come across one yet that mention who's good to start with.

Even if they did, there seems to be enough variation in everybody's opinion as to who's good to start with that I figured it'd be nice to ask here anyway, just to get the opinions of the locals.

Yeah it's fine. I was lucky myself I had a friend to guide me, but I did read up a lot at first to not be completely clueless about what's going on. The learning curve is hard so I understand. Though maybe a separate new people thread is not a bad idea for the community section or something. With an OP fully focused on the best guides/starting heroes/items or something.

 

[Grakl]

What hero has a skill that bounces between enemies and stuns them?

 

[Vlad]

I'm curious what exactly do you mean by a proper tutorial? I don't think a simple tutorial mode is going to do anything to help with the learning curve. If anything, it's going to be figuring out some way to reward veterans to properly teach beginners.

Think about what the game's like to someone who's NEVER played Dota (or any similar games) before. Some people on the Minecraft server tried to explain it to me, but I don't think anybody ever even mentioned that it was top-down. Going in, I was honestly expecting it to be some first-person game (probably since it's from Valve). So, some of the things that I was thrown by in my first match:

- That there's even a store in the first place.
- That the little imps wandering around aren't actually controlled by any of the players. When I first saw them, I was thinking the game was like Sacrifice and you had a little army you could order around.
- That even when you buy an item from the shop, it isn't actually equipped until it's moved to your inventory, and the "Stash" is just kind of a holding area. Took me about halfway into the second game before I realized that the items I was buying weren't doing anything.
- What the object of the game even is. To the uninitiated, it looks like some sort of team deathmatch thing. I was just kind of wandering around and dying a lot.
- That attacking the other players initially is pretty much a terrible idea. Apparently the best approach is to attack the little imps until you're more built up.

And that's only what pops to mind offhand. It's a weird genre, and explaining the general flow of the game would go a long way to helping the complete newbies out.

The funny thing is that the game even asked me when I first ran it what my experience level is. Does that actually do anything?

 

[Ikuu]

What hero has a skill that bounces between enemies and stuns them?

Witch Doctor

 

[Finalow]

mh what are the best ranged heroes for a beginner?

 

[Gully State]

Think about what the game's like to someone who's NEVER played Dota (or any similar games) before. Some people on the Minecraft server tried to explain it to me, but I don't think anybody ever even mentioned that it was top-down. Going in, I was honestly expecting it to be some first-person game (probably since it's from Valve). So, some of the things that I was thrown by in my first match:

- That there's even a store in the first place.
- That the little imps wandering around aren't actually controlled by any of the players. When I first saw them, I was thinking the game was like Sacrifice and you had a little army you could order around.
- That even when you buy an item from the shop, it isn't actually equipped until it's moved to your inventory, and the "Stash" is just kind of a holding area. Took me about halfway into the second game before I realized that the items I was buying weren't doing anything.
- What the object of the game even is. To the uninitiated, it looks like some sort of team deathmatch thing. I was just kind of wandering around and dying a lot.
- That attacking the other players initially is pretty much a terrible idea. Apparently the best approach is to attack the little imps until you're more built up.

And that's only what pops to mind offhand. It's a weird genre, and explaining the general flow of the game would go a long way to helping the complete newbies out.

The funny thing is that the game even asked me when I first ran it what my experience level is. Does that actually do anything?

Your suggestion is basically the tutorial for League of Legends. DL it, try it and see if something like that would answer all your questions for DOTA2. From personal experience, that tutorial did not help me as much as reading those beginner guides listed or even watching a few matches.

Experience level factors into matchmaking for the time being.

 

[JustinBB7]

Think about what the game's like to someone who's NEVER played Dota (or any similar games) before. Some people on the Minecraft server tried to explain it to me, but I don't think anybody ever even mentioned that it was top-down. Going in, I was honestly expecting it to be some first-person game (probably since it's from Valve). So, some of the things that I was thrown by in my first match:

- That there's even a store in the first place.
- That the little imps wandering around aren't actually controlled by any of the players. When I first saw them, I was thinking the game was like Sacrifice and you had a little army you could order around.
- That even when you buy an item from the shop, it isn't actually equipped until it's moved to your inventory, and the "Stash" is just kind of a holding area. Took me about halfway into the second game before I realized that the items I was buying weren't doing anything.
- What the object of the game even is. To the uninitiated, it looks like some sort of team deathmatch thing. I was just kind of wandering around and dying a lot.
- That attacking the other players initially is pretty much a terrible idea. Apparently the best approach is to attack the little imps until you're more built up.

And that's only what pops to mind offhand. It's a weird genre, and explaining the general flow of the game would go a long way to helping the complete newbies out.

The funny thing is that the game even asked me when I first ran it what my experience level is. Does that actually do anything?

First time I played we didn't figure out all the things we bought were in our stash instead of our inventory.
I thought the first 2 enemy heroes I saw were creeps and towerdived straight into them.

It was pretty terrible haha. Luckily that was against bots. But I've seen people like that in pub games too. Valve should really make it clearer that you can practice against bots. And of course a basic tutorial would be really welcome. There actually already are some tutorials hidden in the game files I found a while ago. But they are all for separate heroes. Looks like they are waiting to write them for all heroes before releasing it or something.

 

[Grakl]

Witch Doctor

Cool, thanks.

 

[Crub]

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I'm getting pretty tired of all the "I'm new, what do I do" posts on pretty much every page.

Maybe someone could add a beginner's section in the OP with helpful links.

 

[Sothpaw]

Think about what the game's like to someone who's NEVER played Dota (or any similar games) before. Some people on the Minecraft server tried to explain it to me, but I don't think anybody ever even mentioned that it was top-down. Going in, I was honestly expecting it to be some first-person game (probably since it's from Valve). So, some of the things that I was thrown by in my first match:

- That there's even a store in the first place.
- That the little imps wandering around aren't actually controlled by any of the players. When I first saw them, I was thinking the game was like Sacrifice and you had a little army you could order around.
- That even when you buy an item from the shop, it isn't actually equipped until it's moved to your inventory, and the "Stash" is just kind of a holding area. Took me about halfway into the second game before I realized that the items I was buying weren't doing anything.
- What the object of the game even is. To the uninitiated, it looks like some sort of team deathmatch thing. I was just kind of wandering around and dying a lot.
- That attacking the other players initially is pretty much a terrible idea. Apparently the best approach is to attack the little imps until you're more built up.

And that's only what pops to mind offhand. It's a weird genre, and explaining the general flow of the game would go a long way to helping the complete newbies out.

The funny thing is that the game even asked me when I first ran it what my experience level is. Does that actually do anything?

Everything there is documented in detail at playdota. If you, or any new player just reads the "Learn the Game" section there you will know the answer to all that.

All Valve needs to do for a tutorial is link people to playdota...it was more than enough for me to get a solid understanding of the game and I'm no genius.

 

[Coolhwip]

Morphling so baws

 

[Swag]

mh what are the best ranged heroes for a beginner?

Lich

Quote and add your name if you want to participate.
DOTA 2 GAF Beginners Roster

If you guys get this going I'll add it to the OP, with some of the other beginner links posted

 

[Gully State]

Is there a good juking guide out there? I know I should stop running in a straight line but how exactly to I break LOS?

 

[Conceptor]

We posting videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dQaGuxMC0&feature=youtube_gdata

Spoiler

make sure you move it to 720p so it doesn't look like crap

I was gonna go post this if you didn't lol. Keep em coming :>

Spoiler

nice triple kill

 

[Tenck]

Second time playing as Enchantress, I'm garbage with her, and I outplay my team. I know I should be glad I played well with her, but I just can't feel any kind of satisfaction from it since my team. As always my team is mostly filled with bad people.

 

[Blizzard]

I finally played another DOTA 2 game since someone on Steam wanted me to join. I picked Zeus this time. I liked Nature's Prophet previously since he has the lock-in trees, and the trees to attack, and the free recall to base like LoL.

Zeus is nice since I could just keep pressing R and doing damage to the other team. If people were pushing a tower or getting Roshan, I could also press R to see where the other team was, so I would know if we were safe. I think I bought the magic wand, mana shoes, the ult scepter, and I was building shiva...not sure if I had any other items. He seemed kind of fun. I don't understand how the ministun thing is supposed to work with W, though.

 

[Guesong]

You guys really need to start putting your e-peen stats screens in quote.

I don't even see why we need it tbh

 

[Coolhwip]

So you flame your team for being bad when you get urn and steamboots with ench. Ok

 

[kazabi]

So you flame your team for being bad when you get urn and steamboots with ench. Ok

Nothing wrong with going urn and power treads on ench. I always go for treads on her after the huge str gain nerf (from 2.0 to 1.0) and I don't see anyone else in the team that really needed the urn, so better to have one on ench than having no urn in the team.

 

[1.09]

Nothing wrong with going urn and power treads on ench. I always go for treads on her after the huge str gain nerf (from 2.0 to 1.0) and I don't see anyone else in the team that really needed the urn, so better to have one on ench than having no urn in the team.

sb :3

 

[Artanisix]

So you flame your team for being bad when you get urn and steamboots with ench. Ok

uhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Swag]

Coolwhip

 

[kazabi]

sb :3

Yupp, it's good on SB, but if he's not going for it, then just pick it up on another hero

Edit: didn't see that he had urn on SB nvm then

 

[ArjanN]

All Valve needs to do for a tutorial is link people to playdota...it was more than enough for me to get a solid understanding of the game and I'm no genius.

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible idea. They need to do everything they can to get ease new people in IMO.

It's like with, say, fighting games. Sure all the information to become good is out there on the internet, but it would be much better if the game itself taught you a lot of that stuff.

 

[Coolhwip]

Nothing wrong with going urn and power treads on ench. I always go for treads on her after the huge str gain nerf (from 2.0 to 1.0) and I don't see anyone else in the team that really needed the urn, so better to have one on ench than having no urn in the team.

I dont really buy urn for the stats, if I buy it as a support hero I buy it for the heal. Ench already has a heal, a really good one so I dont see the meaning in it.

Why not get arcane boots instead, then she can always heal/slow.

Being squishy as a support is not a problem, a little str is just gonna make her die 1/2 hits longer from a carry so its not really worth it to waste money on trying to be tanky.

By seing that he has a aghanim and 70 cks in 44 mins makes me think that he didnt buy any ward or courier, still he flames hes team.

 

[Neki]

So you flame your team for being bad when you get urn and steamboots with ench. Ok

this guy.

we got a dota badass over here guys.

 

[1.09]

I dont really buy urn for the stats, if I buy it as a support hero I buy it for the heal. Ench already has a heal, a really good one so I dont see the meaning in it.

Why not get arcane boots instead, then she can always heal/slow.

Being squishy as a support is not a problem, a little str is just gonna make her die 1/2 hits longer from a carry so its not really worth it to waste money on trying to be tanky.

By seing that he has a aghanim and 70 cks in 44 mins makes me think that he didnt buy any ward or courier, still he flames hes team.

 

[Gully State]

this guy.

we got a dota badass over here guys.

"GG...but my team was trash".

 

[Coolhwip]

just annoys me when people start to flame others and they are doing wrong things themselves.

 

[Artanisix]

Being squishy as a support is not a problem, a little str is just gonna make her die 1/2 hits longer from a carry so its not really worth it to waste money on trying to be tanky.

i agree

stupid venomancers getting vanguards and liches getting meka, worthless items, they're just gonna die anyway

 

[kazabi]

just annoys me when people start to flame others and they are doing wrong things themselves.

Getting an item build that you don't like, clearly he has to do something wrong


Edit: I hosted an inhouse, pw neogaf

 

[Schweinehund]

You guys really need to start putting your e-peen stats screens in quote.

I don't even see why we need it tbh

I do it moreso to share our experiences, I look at people's pictures, though I don't always comment.

It's like fisherman sharing their fish stories.

If you're so offended by it, put us on ignore.

 

[Schweinehund]

Second time playing as Enchantress, I'm garbage with her, and I outplay my team. I know I should be glad I played well with her, but I just can't feel any kind of satisfaction from it since my team. As always my team is mostly filled with bad people.

Enchantress is a very fun hero. I've had some actually carry my game >_>.

I love picking her when we have a faceless void on the team.

 

[1.09]

http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183601
these are cute.

 

[Tenck]

You guys really need to start putting your e-peen stats screens in quote.



I don't even see why we need it tbh

It's not about showing off and showing of the e-peen stats. I already said I am terrible and acknowledge that I am at the bottom of the barrel. The picture was to show people that there was hardly any contribution on my team. Even I could have done better by helping out with ganks and pushing lanes, but my team was dying incredibly fast.

Here's my pro stats so you can confirm I am all about waving my e-peen since I think I am a pro.

72 wins 81 losses and 5 abandons. I am the epitome of perfection and my stats certainly show that I have the right to say I am awesome.

I've also asked a few times if my images were too big, and no one said they were (from what I remember). I'll put them in quotes from now on.

So you flame your team for being bad when you get urn and steamboots with ench. Ok

I got the boots to change stats whenever I needed. And the urn was because no one was building it till after I built mine.

Also seems to me this guy agrees with you too.

Power treads are pretty much the only boots Enchantress can afford after the STR nerf. They give you much needed hitpoints (you can also abuse the switch when jungling to keep your mana high), the AS bonus is nothing gamebreaking but still decent. Phase boots are useless for you (the damage is pathetic compared to Impetus, you don't really need the burst ms considering your potent slow), Arcane boots are overkill early game and not enough to spam Impetus later, and Boots of Travel are just too costly (and they don't give any survivability either).

i agree

stupid venomancers getting vanguards and liches getting meka, worthless items, they're just gonna die anyway

This made me laugh a lot. Thanks for that

just annoys me when people start to flame others and they are doing wrong things themselves.

Unless you can give me a reason as to how my team was doing great, I'll take back everything I said about them.

And thanks for mocking my gameplay stats, even after I said I am garbage with her.

Getting an item build that you don't like, clearly he has to do something wrong


Edit: I hosted an inhouse, pw neogaf

Yes. There's only one way to play every hero, and it all has to be by what coolwip believes in.

 

[JustinBB7]

Just had a nice fail, I was playing Ursa and this other guy wanted to do Roshan at lvl 1 with him as Lich. He told me the items I needed that he saw from the youtube video.

Went to Roshan and we both almost died multiple times, and Roshan wasn't even half health yet so we had to give up, then tried a gank on bot that failed. While our top was dying a few times in a row. Man what a mess.

We got back and were a bit even for a while but then they rushed over us at the end haha. I think it's better to do Roshan at lvl 1 with skeleton king there. Or at least easier.

 

[Hylian7]

Just had a nice fail, I was playing Ursa and this other guy wanted to do Roshan at lvl 1 with him as Lich. He told me the items I needed that he saw from the youtube video.

Went to Roshan and we both almost died multiple times, and Roshan wasn't even half health yet so we had to give up, then tried a gank on bot that failed. While our top was dying a few times in a row. Man what a mess.

We got back and were a bit even for a while but then they rushed over us at the end haha. I think it's better to do Roshan at lvl 1 with skeleton king there. Or at least easier.

I didn't think it was possible to do Roshan with Ursa + Lich. I thought Ursa + Skeleton King was the only way.

 

[Wes]

i agree

stupid venomancers getting vanguards and liches getting meka, worthless items, they're just gonna die anyway

Vanguard is core on Venomancer. In fact, get two.

/Sanjay

 

[JustinBB7]

I didn't think it was possible to do Roshan with Ursa + Lich. I thought Ursa + Skeleton King was the only way.

I've seen the video with Lich, but I think the vampire aura just makes it work out better. It's possible with both though. I dunno what we did wrong since I dunno what video he watched. But yeah it didn't work out so well haha.

In the game before that I also learned that the Aegis expires..I died and my Aegis was gone, was like huh? Makes sense of course, could play it really safe and have 2 or even 3 Aegis that way. Just never thought about it expiring. Another lesson learned~

 

[Lirlond]

Vanguard is core on Venomancer. In fact, get two.

/Sanjay

Vanguard /is/ core on veno though. You want to be tanky as fuck so you can continue to poison and be a dickhead.

 

[Rinku]

Just had a nice fail, I was playing Ursa and this other guy wanted to do Roshan at lvl 1 with him as Lich. He told me the items I needed that he saw from the youtube video.

Went to Roshan and we both almost died multiple times, and Roshan wasn't even half health yet so we had to give up, then tried a gank on bot that failed. While our top was dying a few times in a row. Man what a mess.

We got back and were a bit even for a while but then they rushed over us at the end haha. I think it's better to do Roshan at lvl 1 with skeleton king there. Or at least easier.

Both of you guys get one flask, lich with armor and will tank damage first, thrn u tank while he heals up and tank again

 

[Hylian7]

I've seen the video with Lich, but I think the vampire aura just makes it work out better. It's possible with both though. I dunno what we did wrong since I dunno what video he watched. But yeah it didn't work out so well haha.

In the game before that I also learned that the Aegis expires..I died and my Aegis was gone, was like huh? Makes sense of course, could play it really safe and have 2 or even 3 Aegis that way. Just never thought about it expiring. Another lesson learned~

Yep, 10 minutes and it's gone. However, it takes 10 minutes for Roshan to respawn, so if you have no Aegis, you know Roshan is back!

 

[Hylian7]

I just had the comeback of the century, going to record the replay and upload that shit.

A little teaser: It involved a Drow Ranger that was new at Drow Ranger, and ragequit halfway through the game, as well as a Nature's Prophet who clearly didn't have English as his first language. We were getting stomped hard, and came back to win it.

 

[dorkimoe]

Any streams going on today, stuck at work need to watch dota

 

[kazabi]

Any streams going on today, stuck at work need to watch dota

http://www.joindota.com/en/livestreams/482-the-premier-league