Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Whatever happened to that one planet in mass effect that had a Volus billionaire and his army of mercs digging for a weapon that would stop the Reapers?

Why does Bioware hate the non-human races, like the Elcor, and Hanar?
 
So does anyone have a video or something of the New Game Plus ending?

They seriously cannot have designed it so the only way to get a satisfactory ending is to play it twice.
 
so how exactly do you get an ending where Shep lives? my effective military strength was over 4000.

also, by choosing the destroy Reapers/synthethics ending, does that mean you destroy all things that use mass effect fields (eg. the Normandy)? soo all the races that went to earth are now trapped on earth, and the Normany (why was it not on earth?) is crash landed on some other planet/system?
 
I dont think things would be so bad if they simply had the Catalyst explain the origins of things better and had the ending movies conclude things more thoroughly and not be simple color swaps.

Catalyst could explain that they were created by some uber species long long ago to combat another species who were whipping out all life in the galaxy, preventing any other species from advancing. This uber species saw the only way to truly preserve life in the universe was to limit a species life cycle and make room for future species to arise, else wise they would become too powerful themselves and prevent new species from developing, or they would end up creating a synthetic lifeform that would rebel and also attempt to destroy all life in the galaxy for their self preservation.

This idea of the Uber Species/Reaper Creators would be that all species, organic or synthetic only look out for their self interests and given enough time they would attempt to remove all threats to their existence, backed up by hundreds if not thousands of cycles where this was attempted but thwarted by the Reapers leading them to establish the current system of complete destruction of advance species, BUT with Shepard it was different, IF you had brought together all the species of the galaxy, and you Readiness was great enough, you would show the Catalyst that different species could work together and were not completely destined to choose their own kind above all others.

With that ending the Reapers would go away and let you continue on, until such time as the species falter and turn on one another. Then if you sucked at the game and your war assets were too low and you sacrificed too many species to create your coalition you could try and fight the catalyst and sacrifice yourself to destroy it and the reapers and the relays once and for all. And if you really sucked at the game the reapers would win.
 
I dont think things would be so bad if they simply had the Catalyst explain the origins of things better and had the ending movies conclude things more thoroughly and not be simple color swaps.

Catalyst could explain that they were created by some uber species long long ago to combat another species who were whipping out all life in the galaxy, preventing any other species from advancing. This uber species saw the only way to truly preserve life in the universe was to limit a species life cycle and make room for future species to arise, else wise they would become too powerful themselves and prevent new species from developing, or they would end up creating a synthetic lifeform that would rebel and also attempt to destroy all life in the galaxy for their self preservation.

This idea of the Uber Species/Reaper Creators would be that all species, organic or synthetic only look out for their self interests and given enough time they would attempt to remove all threats to their existence, backed up by hundreds if not thousands of cycles where this was attempted but thwarted by the Reapers leading them to establish the current system of complete destruction of advance species, BUT with Shepard it was different, IF you had brought together all the species of the galaxy, and you Readiness was great enough, you would show the Catalyst that different species could work together and were not completely destined to choose their own kind above all others.

With that ending the Reapers would go away and let you continue on, until such time as the species falter and turn on one another. Then if you sucked at the game and your war assets were too low and you sacrificed too many species to create your coalition you could try and fight the catalyst and sacrifice yourself to destroy it and the reapers and the relays once and for all. And if you really sucked at the game the reapers would win.

The ending gives absolutely no closure because it's just too much, too fast.

It's impossible to shove in the origin of the reapers in just one dialog and make it interesting and understandable. The ending just comes off as incredibly disjointed and doesn't give any closure at all.

So many questions when it could've been just about "reapers being bad dudes and fucking shit up, do you sacrifice yourself to stop them, or do you sacrifice something else?" That would've been a hero's ending.

The ending is up there with 2001 in terms of weirdness, but 2001 was weird and different. The ending in ME3 fit as good as 2001's ending would've fit to the end of Firefly.
 
Just finished the game. Going to jump in here without having read anything else in the thread yet. I got the "best" ending I believe. That was just about the most unsatisfying ending ever. I was absolutely loving the game up until the end.

How the fuck did Garrus and Edi get back to the Normandy? Fucking Garrus was with me when we got fucking blasted right before warping to the citadel. That fucker just hall ass back to a shuttle the moment he noticed I was gone?
 
I dont think things would be so bad if they simply had the Catalyst explain the origins of things better and had the ending movies conclude things more thoroughly and not be simple color swaps.

Catalyst could explain that they were created by some uber species long long ago to combat another species who were whipping out all life in the galaxy, preventing any other species from advancing. This uber species saw the only way to truly preserve life in the universe was to limit a species life cycle and make room for future species to arise, else wise they would become too powerful themselves and prevent new species from developing, or they would end up creating a synthetic lifeform that would rebel and also attempt to destroy all life in the galaxy for their self preservation.

This idea of the Uber Species/Reaper Creators would be that all species, organic or synthetic only look out for their self interests and given enough time they would attempt to remove all threats to their existence, backed up by hundreds if not thousands of cycles where this was attempted but thwarted by the Reapers leading them to establish the current system of complete destruction of advance species, BUT with Shepard it was different, IF you had brought together all the species of the galaxy, and you Readiness was great enough, you would show the Catalyst that different species could work together and were not completely destined to choose their own kind above all others.

With that ending the Reapers would go away and let you continue on, until such time as the species falter and turn on one another. Then if you sucked at the game and your war assets were too low and you sacrificed too many species to create your coalition you could try and fight the catalyst and sacrifice yourself to destroy it and the reapers and the relays once and for all. And if you really sucked at the game the reapers would win.

The problem with this is that it's clear this thinking is completely wrong given the Citadel Council and the ongoing peace that the Citadel and its technology had on the various lifted races. It also doesn't explain why the Reapers would leave behind the Mass Relays and Citadel for other races to find in order to put them in the theoretical position where they would have dominance over all other species thus necessitating the Reaper purge because the Reapers manipulated them into that position.

They had already established the Asari had found the Citadel first and used their diplomatic powers in order to bring peace to the various warlike races. Even the militant Turians eventually came to co-exist with the others.

There really is no explanation that would coincide all the Reaper's actions over the last two games with the thoughts they were trying to communicate in the finale of the third. Sovereign was too busy corrupting Saren and the Geth. Harbinger mind controlled the Protheans, brutally manipulating them on a genetic level to go around kidnapping a race in order to birth another Reaper in order to kill humans (because they're special?).

IF this had been the goal from the beginning, they should have established the idea that with enough power, any race would strive to seek dominance and extinction in the others through the use of their advance technology. The first two games should have left the Reapers as a shadowy threat in the background while playing up the political breakdown between Turians, Salarians and Asari.

Then you could have Space Jesus...errr Shepard come around and unite them to show that the Reapers view is wrong and with enough force of will from one chosen individual, people can overcome their innate prejudices to achieve peace.

As it stands, the events of ME 1, 2 and 3 just don't add up to anything that resembles a lick of sense.
 
Yeah... I'm going to have to process this a little more, but for now, I'm going with "it's a really bad ending".

It feels way to forced... and honestly appears to be the effect of writers trying to be clever, and failing bad. Worst part is, up until the last 15 minutes I was feeling pretty good about the game and thought people were overeating. Even the inevitable sacrifices of former teammates were at least reasonably well done.

And then comes the endings that specially makes everything you "accomplished" go down the drain... specially the quarian/geth conflict... yeah.. feeling really good about helping them resolve their conflict just to have the quarians fleet stranded away from their homeworld, and Geth possible annihilated.

The fact that is the ending to three games probably makes the problems more... disappointing... but this is the first Bioware game in a long time where I don't know if I'm going to replay with my "renegade" hero... at least not right away.

Bottom line, I finished the game and I'm not really satisfied... which is not a good reward for sticking with the series until now.
 
So the IGN guide says there's a new game + only ending? Is this true? They said there were only three endings yesterday, and have since changed it to 17, so they aren't the most reliable at the moment.
 
Damn, I'm depressed now.

What to do when it all just fell apart at the end? :(

Yeah same here not even feeling going into Multiplayer.
The ending is just way to fast and way to strange like 1 week before the deadline they were like wtf we forgot the ending.

I know for a fact that self preservation and peace dont go together so war will likely come soon again in the galaxy. There are only limited amount of resources and habitual planets in the galaxy and the races will fight again over it. Hell how far is the nearest Dwarf galaxy maybe life there has Advanced enough to try take over our galaxy did the Reapers even consider claiming live there as well.
 
My favorite part of Mass Effect wasn't the Reaper story but the universe and characters that my Shepard took a significant part in helping to tweak and mold. The endings basically undo all of that and fundamentally alter that universe (then they don't show us anything of those universes except for that Joker crash land scene, which is pasted across all three alternatives with very slight differences).

It's like guiding our hand in painting something really detailed, heartfelt, and personal over the course of five years, then giving us 3 buckets of paint (a red bucket, a green bucket, or a blue bucket) to throw and splash over the painting.
 
The problem with this is that it's clear this thinking is completely wrong given the Citadel Council and the ongoing peace that the Citadel and its technology had on the various lifted races. It also doesn't explain why the Reapers would leave behind the Mass Relays and Citadel for other races to find in order to put them in the theoretical position where they would have dominance over all other species thus necessitating the Reaper purge because the Reapers manipulated them into that position.

They had already established the Asari had found the Citadel first and used their diplomatic powers in order to bring peace to the various warlike races. Even the militant Turians eventually came to co-exist with the others.

this is where the Prothean beacon on Thessia comes into play. It is presumed that because of that beacon the Asari were able to develop in a better way than what would normally happen in a cycle.

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the only problem i had with the story was that there was no happy ending for Shepard, where he/she reunited with whichever love interest you chose in the game. i thought killing him/her in the beginning of ME2 meant that we would get a different fate at the end of ME3 other than death.
 
The ending gives absolutely no closure because it's just too much, too fast.

It's impossible to shove in the origin of the reapers in just one dialog and make it interesting and understandable. The ending just comes off as incredibly disjointed and doesn't give any closure at all.

So many questions when it could've been just about "reapers being bad dudes and fucking shit up, do you sacrifice yourself to stop them, or do you sacrifice something else?" That would've been a hero's ending.

The ending is up there with 2001 in terms of weirdness, but 2001 was weird and different. The ending in ME3 fit as good as 2001's ending would've fit to the end of Firefly.

I think thats a bit too extreme a view, youre basically saying that the entire series has to be rewritten to account for all this and feed it out slowly over time.

Thats not really needed, the current series plot was fine more or less the ending was a bad cap but it could be rectified in one of two ways.

Option 1 I already outlined by developing the Catalyst's past and intentions more thoroughly and keeping in line with the series as whole, ie Shepard bring the entire galaxy together in a shared effort to stop the Reapers countering everything the Catalyst had view before. This also goes extremely well with what Javik talked about continually about how the races in his time fought against each other and the Protheans had to conquer them.

Option 2 would be to end the game with Shepard and Anderson sitting there and activating the Crucible, killing all Reapers and saving the day, leaving the mystery unsolved and the galaxy saved. Good ending Sheps lives, bad ending Shep has to sacrifice self to ensure Crucible works.

Having a data dump at the end isnt too much. I mean hell one of the best moments in the series was talking to Vigil on Ilos which was a huge data dump that revealed everything about the Protheans and Reapers for most of the series. I mean how else would we find out about the Catalyst and their past other than for the Catalyst to tell use itself? The Reapers are at least 37 million years old. Thats means the Reapers have come and wiped the galaxy clean at least 740 times. Theres no way for such a historical record to survive that long with so many cycles, not exactly something we could simply piece together by ourselves.


The problem with this is that it's clear this thinking is completely wrong given the Citadel Council and the ongoing peace that the Citadel and its technology had on the various lifted races. It also doesn't explain why the Reapers would leave behind the Mass Relays and Citadel for other races to find in order to put them in the theoretical position where they would have dominance over all other species thus necessitating the Reaper purge because the Reapers manipulated them into that position.

They had already established the Asari had found the Citadel first and used their diplomatic powers in order to bring peace to the various warlike races. Even the militant Turians eventually came to co-exist with the others.

There really is no explanation that would coincide all the Reaper's actions over the last two games with the thoughts they were trying to communicate in the finale of the third. Sovereign was too busy corrupting Saren and the Geth. Harbinger mind controlled the Protheans, brutally manipulating them on a genetic level to go around kidnapping a race in order to birth another Reaper in order to kill humans (because they're special?).

IF this had been the goal from the beginning, they should have established the idea that with enough power, any race would strive to seek dominance and extinction in the others through the use of their advance technology. The first two games should have left the Reapers as a shadowy threat in the background while playing up the political breakdown between Turians, Salarians and Asari.

Then you could have Space Jesus...errr Shepard come around and unite them to show that the Reapers view is wrong and with enough force of will from one chosen individual, people can overcome their innate prejudices to achieve peace.

As it stands, the events of ME 1, 2 and 3 just don't add up to anything that resembles a lick of sense.

You make some interesting points, but I think you completely miss some other big factors.

The Citadel species were hardly perfect and completely peaceful. Twice before they faced near mass destruction at the hands of another species first with the Rachni and then the Krogan. Even then there was still an immense amount of machinations from each race that given time could easily have boiled over. Batarians were constantly trying to find a way to dominate everyone. The Krogan were hell bent on exacting revenge on the Turians and Salarians and dominating the galaxy once again. Cerberus was doing its best to have humans dominate all others. The Asari were hiding a massive Prothean beacon to ensure their own quasi-dominance and the Salarians were constantly doing shady shit to undermine other races and come up with new ways to practically obliterate their enemies.

As for the Citadel and Relays giving species the ability to dominate all others, this is true to an extent, but for all its advantages its highly disadvantageous because the second a species achieves space flight and finds the relays they are on the path the Reaprers planned for them, which they can capitalize on and use against them when the time comes. If not for the Citadel and Mass Relays these species would have to develop their own systems of galactic transit and technology which presents a huge issue for the Reapers to overcome and would more than likely lead to a species dominating others more likely simply because it would take a long time and a seriously powerful species to create such advanced technology.

Plus for all their unity and good intentions, the second the Reapers showed up all the races said screw you guys and went off to save themselves and their own kind. If not for Shepard the Asari, Salarians and Turians would have all died on their own attempting to save themselves and not caring about the others fate. Everything is still there more or less to support this kind of explanation for the Reapers.

From Ashes DLC supports this whole idea even more so with everything that Javik tells you about his people and the Prothean society. They completely dominated all other species forcing them to join their society or be wiped out completely. They had numerous massive wars for control of the galaxy and were in the middle of a catastrophic war with a synthetic race when the Reapers arrived. Seeing at the Reapers have come and gone probably more than a thousand times I would wager theyve seen more instances of the Prothean society than of current Citadel coalition.
 
I'm not sure but there isn't an option to let things happen? Youth left untouched and others getting killed? Why?
 
My favorite part of Mass Effect wasn't the Reaper story but the universe and characters that my Shepard took a significant part in helping to tweak and mold. The endings basically undo all of that and fundamentally alter that universe (then they don't show us anything of those universes except for that Joker crash land scene, which is pasted across all three alternatives with very slight differences).

It's like guiding our hand in painting something really detailed, heartfelt, and personal over the course of five years, then giving us 3 buckets of paint (a red bucket, a green bucket, or a blue bucket) to throw and splash over the painting.

I just beat the game and this is what struck me the most. Why would you go through all the effort of building up the lore of the universe to for all intent an purposes rebooting the universe. The relays are gone and therefore long range space travel is gone none of those species are going to interact with each other again for very long time. I guess Earth will become the new citadel since for all intents and purposes an example of all the space flight species had representatives there. There's also no closure for anybody their world has been radically altered and you get no reactions at all.



this is where the Prothean beacon on Thessia comes into play. It is presumed that because of that beacon the Asari were able to develop in a better way than what would normally happen in a cycle.

If you bring along Javik for that mission he tells the party that they picked the Asari to push forward so they would be dominate the next cycle for that very reason. He mentions the fact that they were an extremely patient species and could interact with the universe in a way the Protheans could never. Its kind of illuminating and helps remove of some of the Roman imperialist light he was presented in.


I have to ask because I might of missed it, but do they ever explain why there was an influx of dark matter in the universe I had assumed that excessive use of relays was reason that was happening. I thought that would have been a great plot thread to follow but they totally ignored it didn't they.
 
I have to ask because I might of missed it, but do they ever explain why there was an influx of dark matter in the universe I had assumed that excessive use pf relays was reason that was happening. I thought that would have been a great plot thread to follow but they totally ignored it didn't they.

I think I read earlier on BSN that someone said the original story for the Reapers wasnt the synthetic thing, but to curb species advancement to prevent the influx of dark matter which would ultimately tear the galaxy apart. So their solution was to take out all advanced species before they became too powerful and widespread, but still allow other species to survive for a time until they too posed a threat to the galaxy.
 
I think thats a bit too extreme a view, youre basically saying that the entire series has to be rewritten to account for all this and feed it out slowly over time.

Thats not really needed, the current series plot was fine more or less the ending was a bad cap but it could be rectified in one of two ways.

Option 1 I already outlined by developing the Catalyst's past and intentions more thoroughly and keeping in line with the series as whole, ie Shepard bring the entire galaxy together in a shared effort to stop the Reapers countering everything the Catalyst had view before. This also goes extremely well with what Javik talked about continually about how the races in his time fought against each other and the Protheans had to conquer them.

Option 2 would be to end the game with Shepard and Anderson sitting there and activating the Crucible, killing all Reapers and saving the day, leaving the mystery unsolved and the galaxy saved. Good ending Sheps lives, bad ending Shep has to sacrifice self to ensure Crucible works.

Having a data dump at the end isnt too much. I mean hell one of the best moments in the series was talking to Vigil on Ilos which was a huge data dump that revealed everything about the Protheans and Reapers for most of the series. I mean how else would we find out about the Catalyst and their past other than for the Catalyst to tell use itself? The Reapers are at least 37 million years old. Thats means the Reapers have come and wiped the galaxy clean at least 740 times. Theres no way for such a historical record to survive that long with so many cycles, not exactly something we could simply piece together by ourselves.

But the problem is that you weren't able to investigate and do things at your own pace. If you could talk with the avatar and ask about how it all worked, it would feel much more appropriate.

The main problem with the end though is how much of a bummer it is. We've already seen the whole galaxy get fucked, all pointing to this one moment of heroism and redemption. And what do we get? A cutscene and something vague about Normandy being stranded on a different planet. It just came out of nowhere.
 
But the problem is that you weren't able to investigate and do things at your own pace. If you could talk with the avatar and ask about how it all worked, it would feel much more appropriate.

The main problem with the end though is how much of a bummer. We've already seen the whole galaxy get fucked, all pointing to this one moment of heroism and redemption. And what do we get? A cutscene and something vague about Normandy being stranded on a different planet. It just came out of nowhere.

Thats what I was saying they should have done. Make it more like Vigil, allow us to converse with the Catalyst and fully understand the Reapers past and origins and talk it out, not just give us a small and confusing snippet and have us make a vague choice. Then give us an ending sequence that actually amounts to something more than a color swap.
 
I think I read earlier on BSN that someone said the original story for the Reapers wasnt the synthetic thing, but to curb species advancement to prevent the influx of dark matter which would ultimately tear the galaxy apart. So their solution was to take out all advanced species before they became too powerful and widespread, but still allow other species to survive for a time until they too posed a threat to the galaxy.

Oh wow. If that's true, they should be glad they didn't go with it then, or the Gurren Lagann parallels accusations would be flying even more.
 
When you have an ancient lovecraftian machinegod race of intelligent spaceships, when they say "My kind trascends your very understanding", that should be the clue that any attempt in the future to explain them will only be a burden.
 
When you have an ancient lovecraftian machinegod race of intelligent spaceships, when they say "My kind trascends your very understanding", that should be the clue that any attempt in the future to explain them will only be a burden.

i don't think they attempted to explain them though. thats why there is no conversation with the catalyst, it is just a being capable of making a species such as reapers. we never learn how they came to be or how they are made, simply that they exist and watch over the galaxy.
 
My favorite part of Mass Effect wasn't the Reaper story but the universe and characters that my Shepard took a significant part in helping to tweak and mold. The endings basically undo all of that and fundamentally alter that universe (then they don't show us anything of those universes except for that Joker crash land scene, which is pasted across all three alternatives with very slight differences).

It's like guiding our hand in painting something really detailed, heartfelt, and personal over the course of five years, then giving us 3 buckets of paint (a red bucket, a green bucket, or a blue bucket) to throw and splash over the painting.

And that crash landing scene doesn't even make sense.
They were fighting for Earth and some how between Shepard going into the citadel and making that final choice Joker picks everyone or big part of the crew up goes into a Mass Relay. Instead of stay fighting for Earth Joker you don't deserve to have sexy time with EDI.
 
Thats what I was saying they should have done. Make it more like Vigil, allow us to converse with the Catalyst and fully understand the Reapers past and origins and talk it out, not just give us a small and confusing snippet and have us make a vague choice. Then give us an ending sequence that actually amounts to something more than a color swap.

Oh, I guess I'm in hysteria right now, can't read very well :(
 
I think I read earlier on BSN that someone said the original story for the Reapers wasnt the synthetic thing, but to curb species advancement to prevent the influx of dark matter which would ultimately tear the galaxy apart. So their solution was to take out all advanced species before they became too powerful and widespread, but still allow other species to survive for a time until they too posed a threat to the galaxy.
How would this make sense when the Reapers left the Citadel and the Mass Relays behind?
 
So, anyone own the guide for this? Apparently it does mention there is a new game plus exclusive ending. Or at least people on gamespots message board say it does.
 
You make some interesting points, but I think you completely miss some other big factors.

The Citadel species were hardly perfect and completely peaceful. Twice before they faced near mass destruction at the hands of another species first with the Rachni and then the Krogan. Even then there was still an immense amount of machinations from each race that given time could easily have boiled over. Batarians were constantly trying to find a way to dominate everyone. The Krogan were hell bent on exacting revenge on the Turians and Salarians and dominating the galaxy once again. Cerberus was doing its best to have humans dominate all others. The Asari were hiding a massive Prothean beacon to ensure their own quasi-dominance and the Salarians were constantly doing shady shit to undermine other races and come up with new ways to practically obliterate their enemies.

True, but the Krogan problem was specifically due to the mucking about of the Citadel races trying to combat the Rachni for peace. And, it's been years since I've played ME1, but weren't the Rachni considered essentially intergalactic pests? In the sense that they weren't seen as an intelligent lifeform to be reasoned with?

The other points are all excellent and what frustrates me the most about the Mass Effect series. They have some amazing opportunities and examples to really bring about a good, thematic story but they constantly pass over those opportunities. If they had used any of these as a main focus to highlight the inevitable goal of the Reapers, then their ideas wouldn't seem so out of left field. But instead we get the Reapers going on about synthetic life and some bizarre adherence to the idea that synthetics will want to wipe out organics... because they just wanted to keep using the Geth as villains I assume?


As for the Citadel and Relays giving species the ability to dominate all others, this is true to an extent, but for all its advantages its highly disadvantageous because the second a species achieves space flight and finds the relays they are on the path the Reaprers planned for them, which they can capitalize on and use against them when the time comes. If not for the Citadel and Mass Relays these species would have to develop their own systems of galactic transit and technology which presents a huge issue for the Reapers to overcome and would more than likely lead to a species dominating others more likely simply because it would take a long time and a seriously powerful species to create such advanced technology.

This really diffuses a lot of the weight they were trying to put behind the Reapers in the first game. The choice of their name was very specific - they wanted the player to fear these enigmatic species. They were meant to be an incredibly ancient, unknowable and ruthless entity.

But what does this tell us of the Reapers if they're worried about some upstart race popping up and creating a device to destroy them in 50,000 years. They've seen the passage of millenniums and should have the stance that we are never going to achieve a means of opposing them because we are so insignificant.

If they were truly afraid of species creating sufficiently advanced technology, why wouldn't they just update their cycles to occur every 30,000 years?

Plus for all their unity and good intentions, the second the Reapers showed up all the races said screw you guys and went off to save themselves and their own kind. If not for Shepard the Asari, Salarians and Turians would have all died on their own attempting to save themselves and not caring about the others fate. Everything is still there more or less to support this kind of explanation for the Reapers.

I haven't played the third game, but this is one thing that made me a little humoured when I read the leaks. This was done to obviously make the player feel important but if there has ever been a precedent set in history, it is that an outside threat almost invariably drives disparate factions together in a common defence.

The races should have been pulling themselves apart before the Reapers arrived and Shepard had to pull them from the rubble to unite them instead of them fracturing at the appearance of the Reapers.

From Ashes DLC supports this whole idea even more so with everything that Javik tells you about his people and the Prothean society. They completely dominated all other species forcing them to join their society or be wiped out completely. They had numerous massive wars for control of the galaxy and were in the middle of a catastrophic war with a synthetic race when the Reapers arrived. Seeing at the Reapers have come and gone probably more than a thousand times I would wager theyve seen more instances of the Prothean society than of current Citadel coalition.

I do like how the Prothean did not meet the expectations of the modern races. This idea that they were warring with a synthetic race rubs me the wrong way. Why wouldn't there be any evidence of this villainous synthetic race laying about? It's not like their bodies were organic and would decompose. But it also confused me how no one took Shepard seriously even after they had a Reaper body to examine and realize "HOLY SHIT THIS TECHNOLOGY IS OLD."

Also, the idea of a Prothean bombing around for so long just rubs me the wrong way. I like the execution but hate the idea behind it.

When you have an ancient lovecraftian machinegod race of intelligent spaceships, when they say "My kind trascends your very understanding", that should be the clue that any attempt in the future to explain them will only be a burden.

The fact they had them as machine-gods kind of left them with a bullet in the foot in the first place. A species of machines has to be made by someone - you can't evolve a robot. This human element immediately makes them understandable on some level.

It also makes it really easy to defeat them. I mean, a single digit change in the Geth programming caused a faction to split off and reject the Reapers as their gods. It is what has always bugged me about artificial villains from this series to the Matrix and most things in between. Robots, especially ones whose creator is still kicking around, would be so easy to control and bring to heel.
 
I'm still contemplating which ending I would consider canon.

If it wasn't for the relays getting destroyed no matter what, I would definetely go with Synthesis, because it's the only one where Shepard sacrifices himself with everyone making it. Though, that whole bullshit cliffhanger with them being stranded is still there, so it's still not very satisfactory. Also, having Shepard be at his weakest state definetely takes away the heroism, it just becomes depressing seeing him sacrifice himself.

If I'm going to sacrifice myself for all races in the world, they better live in some goddamn utopia, naming a city after me with all of my bitches crying at my funeral.

Having the end happen just a few minutes after the sacrifice just takes away everything.
 
My favorite part of Mass Effect wasn't the Reaper story but the universe and characters that my Shepard took a significant part in helping to tweak and mold. The endings basically undo all of that and fundamentally alter that universe (then they don't show us anything of those universes except for that Joker crash land scene, which is pasted across all three alternatives with very slight differences).

It's like guiding our hand in painting something really detailed, heartfelt, and personal over the course of five years, then giving us 3 buckets of paint (a red bucket, a green bucket, or a blue bucket) to throw and splash over the painting.

That was the sole thought I had when I was watching the end. Watching Shep die was pretty emotional, but the realization that everything I loved about the series was now gone was really gut wrenching. Even though I had "won" and beaten the Reapers, I still lost because theres no future for the ME series as we know it. Im still more heart broken than angry. Im fine with a bittersweet ending, but the endings are just all bitter right now.

How would this make sense when the Reapers left the Citadel and the Mass Relays behind?

Beats me I didnt come up with it, but I would assume the same thing as it is now. Its provides a predictable path for the Reapers to assume species will go instead of having them create their own galactic transit system that would be much harder for the Reapers to overcome and take out the now too far advanced species. With the Citadel and mass relays theres no guess work as to where species live and are spread out. If it wasnt for that they would have to come in blind scouring the entire universe to find the centers of a species.

BeesEight said:
This really diffuses a lot of the weight they were trying to put behind the Reapers in the first game. The choice of their name was very specific - they wanted the player to fear these enigmatic species. They were meant to be an incredibly ancient, unknowable and ruthless entity.

But what does this tell us of the Reapers if they're worried about some upstart race popping up and creating a device to destroy them in 50,000 years. They've seen the passage of millenniums and should have the stance that we are never going to achieve a means of opposing them because we are so insignificant.

If they were truly afraid of species creating sufficiently advanced technology, why wouldn't they just update their cycles to occur every 30,000 years?

Its not because theyre afraid but because its a hassle to have to scour the galaxy looking for these species and their centers of power. With the relays in place theres no guess work. All species will conform to this path and it will then be easy to take them out. I mean it took them centuries to fully eradicate the Protheans so imagine how long it would take if they didnt have a complete blueprint of the galactic map. Its a matter of convenience. Even though the Protheans were immensely more powerful than all the current species combined they still couldnt stand up to the Reapers toe to toe in conventional warfare to save their lives.
 
Am I the only one kind of shocked over how many people apparantly had to choose between Geth and Quarians?

Reading comments here and there...it seems that since it's the only choice not straight-up related to Reputation Points, but rather on past actions of ME2 and some of ME3, alot of people don't have enough required points to activate BLUE MAGIC or RED MAGIC.
 
Am I the only one kind of shocked over how many people apparantly had to choose between Geth and Quarians?

Reading comments here and there...it seems that since it's the only choice not straight-up related to Reputation Points, but rather on past actions of ME2 and some of ME3, alot of people don't have enough required points to activate BLUE MAGIC or RED MAGIC.

I think the same thing when people talk about Miranda dying. I honestly didn't know that was possible. I didn't even romance her in ME2. Then again I missed out on convincing the IM to off himself instead I shot him which was much more satisfying.
 
Its not because theyre afraid but because its a hassle to have to scour the galaxy looking for these species and their centers of power. With the relays in place theres no guess work. All species will conform to this path and it will then be easy to take them out. I mean it took them centuries to fully eradicate the Protheans so imagine how long it would take if they didnt have a complete blueprint of the galactic map. Its a matter of convenience. Even though the Protheans were immensely more powerful than all the current species combined they still couldnt stand up to the Reapers toe to toe in conventional warfare to save their lives.

Oh, agreed. It's a fantastic way to essentially lure the enemy into a trap through the promise of honey. But it then undermines their whole 'protection' philosophy because it's placing these species on the very same path that would lead them to creating the self-fulfilling prophecy the Reapers propose.

With all the information they had provided for the Reapers, trying to turn their motives into anything resembling benevolence or misguided altruism was going to inevitably be illogical. They should have left the games as a massive good vs evil conflict and leave the Reapers as moustache twirling monstrosities out to commit generational genocide. Any attempt to explain their motives beyond that would fall flat on its face since they hadn't properly prepared anything else.

Edit: To clarify further - imagine if Saren had succeeded in the first game. Are we really expected to believe that the universe in Mass Effect 1 was on the verge of being destroyed by the Geth or any of the other races? Furthermore, the reason the Geth were a villain in the first was solely because Sovereign rewrote them. At this point can we even be sure that the Geth rebellion wasn't even started by Sovereign in the first place? Basically, these 'benevolent' guardians leave behind a harbinger to essentially sow the seeds of war and genocide in order to justify the Reaper's own plan of genocide. For, you know, the organics' best interests...
 
I did the "synthesis ending..." Meh, can I pick a new ending? :p

I just youtubed it nothing really different just a new bucket of paint and other im not sure but random teammates stepping out of the Normandy. I really thought at the end that the Normandy crash landed on a planet and the new species(synthesis)that came found this relic.

I always thought all life would go away. And reseed the Galaxy with this new Framework for DNA.
 
The planet they land on actually reminds me of the planet where you do Jacobs loyalty mission, i.e. the planet where it's poisonous to eat anything.
 
Yeah, I don't think that I'll be able to bring myself to finish this game. I'll see the romance arch finish and maybe face off with the Illusive Man, but that's it.

Until there's an actual New Game +, no way in hell.
 
Oh wow. If that's true, they should be glad they didn't go with it then, or the Gurren Lagann parallels accusations would be flying even more.

It's why they were setting up Haestrom in the second game. I don't like that explanation either.

What gets me about their purpose, according to the Catalyst, is that it doesn't make sense. There are two great examples of synthetics and organics living peacefully together: the peace between the geth and quarians and having EDI, an AI who was had homicidal tendencies, on your ship. It is a thematic conflict. The fact that you can't even bring up those two examples during your "conversation" with the Catalyst is proof of that.

Also, the Catalyst, leader of the Reapers, is the AI in control of the Citadel but it cannot activate itself as a relay.



Basically, these 'benevolent' guardians leave behind a harbinger to essentially sow the seeds of war and genocide in order to justify the Reaper's own plan of genocide. For, you know, the organics' best interests...

So the AI of the Citadel is opposed to AI because they will wipe out organic life so it harvests organic life while destroying organic life to prevent organic life from creating AI. The very same Citadel AI needs the other AI to send a signal to itself so that it can act as a mass relay so more AI to come through and cull organic life in order to protect organic life from AI.
 
If the reapers were so noble to restart the cycle to help lesser races, why do they seem to have a personal agenda by creating husks and agents to fuck everything up?

The reapers always came off as assholes that wanted to see strong races burn, giving them a noble cause just rubs me the wrong way.
 
So the AI of the Citadel is opposed to AI because they will wipe out organic life so it harvests organic life while destroying organic life to prevent organic life from creating AI. The very same Citadel AI needs the other AI to send a signal to itself so that it can act as a mass relay so more AI to come through and cull organic life in order to protect organic life from AI.

Ha, essentially.

I knew BioWare had written themselves into a corner, but I didn't anticipate this would be their idea to get out.
 
What gets me about their purpose, according to the Catalyst, is that it doesn't make sense. There are two great examples of synthetics and organics living peacefully together: the peace between the geth and quarians and having EDI, an AI who was had homicidal tendencies, on your ship. It is a thematic conflict. The fact that you can't even bring up those two examples during your "conversation" with the Catalyst is proof of that.


While I agree with you one could argue that those developments are new and neither had been put to the test yet.

So is there any evidence to the New game+ ending? Or is IGN just making strange assumptions.
 
I have to accept it maybe we get some New game+ ending which is better or DLC that doesn't fuck up the Galaxy and blast it back into galactic stone age without Mass Relay and the citadel.
 
While I agree with you one could argue that those developments are new and neither had been put to the test yet.

True, but they were the only AI developments in this cycle. If BioWare is really trying to defend that of the hundreds upon hundreds of cycles this has occurred that none of them had co-operative AI and that this cycle just happened to have the only two instances be incredibly co-operative... then I don't even know. Must have been humans. They're special.
 
Maybe the Mass Effect Datapad for iOS will give us "epilogue" messages from different characters (sent to Joker or something). Cheap to do and better than nothing.

Maybe there will be a New Game Plus DLC thing with a much more fulfilled ending.
 
True, but they were the only AI developments in this cycle. If BioWare is really trying to defend that of the hundreds upon hundreds of cycles this has occurred that none of them had co-operative AI and that this cycle just happened to have the only two instances be incredibly co-operative... then I don't even know. Must have been humans. They're special.

Must've been Shepard.

I mean really nobody does anything in this game except Shepard, it's baffling. Why am I not Admiral at this point?
 
When you have an ancient lovecraftian machinegod race of intelligent spaceships, when they say "My kind trascends your very understanding", that should be the clue that any attempt in the future to explain them will only be a burden.

Yeah, it should be noted that the seeds for this trainwreck of a plot were sown in the first game. Still, they had two games to flesh that stuff out and retcon Sovereign as a supremely arrogant or plain wrong Reaper, I dunno.
 
Catalyst: And so we had to destroy advanced life in the galaxy to stop AI from coming into existence, or else all life in the galaxy would be destroyed. This is an imperative of the universe.

Shepard: Uh. The Citadel Council bans the development of AI, and the only hostile AI in this cycle came about because they were attacked first by organics.

Catalyst: Oh. Oops! Sorry, our bad *all the Reapers leave*
 
While I agree with you one could argue that those developments are new and neither had been put to the test yet.

So is there any evidence to the New game+ ending? Or is IGN just making strange assumptions.

They never had a chance to develop, never mind the fact that there would be conflicts just like there are between and within organic races.

If they really opposed AI, they would have just used their awesome space hacking abilities to destroy synthetics or keep them at a non-sentient level.
 
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