Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
- Thread starter XANDER CAGE
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littleworm
Member
I feel like the simplest answer is the best one. They do it for their own survival, while Sovereign talks like they are god like figures, the events that take place in the following games prove that they are not. It took the reapers over a 100 years to defeat the Prothenas, and it was suggested that it would take nearly as long to defeat the various races of this cycle. The reason the Reapers have to clean house every 50,000 years is that they have hit their evolutionary peak, and they are concerned about being destroyed by the other races, thus the reason they hide in dark space. This also explains the reason the built the mass relays and the Citadel, it's easier to win the war when you can heavily influence the ways and means of your opponents.
FullMetalx
Banned
just a question, is the consensus here the little ghost child in the end was some sort of God?
You know, he's right though. It's not death that bothers me. Because these 2 deaths were done well and I love those moments:
Shepard's fate, however, is one hell of a clusterfuck.
Dacon
Banned
Thanks dood
Whaaaat.
The returning cast from ME1/ME2 is amazing. It's the only reason I still believe that ME3 is a great game in some parts.
I would never recommend ME3 to someone who has never played ME1 or ME2.
FullMetalx
Banned
Zomba13
Member
Maybe the God of unsatisfying endings.
Pollux
Member
Where's the video?
He's a highly advanced A.I. who appears godlike because he has grown extremely technologically powerful over time. That concept is fine, at least. It's a sci-fi staple.
Scientology
Nah, half the fun of ME3 is seeing all the old crew return in various ways. The other half is seeing those storylines revolving around the old crew be resolved.
I prefer Patron Saint of Unsatisfying Endings.
Empty Space
Member
I thought this was hilarious for some reason and I don't know why.
I wonder what the Catalyst would do with a genetically engineered species. Would it implode? They are both organic and synthetic they also know the answer to all the questions normal organic do.
FullMetalx
Banned
okay but he wasn't created by the reapers right? He indicated that he somehow controls the reapers. Who created him? That's why I'm thinking he is like some sort of God.
lastplayed
Member
Amazing post. Well done author.
Don't really think that the original endings were much better, though.
Humans being special due to genetic diversity struck me as wrong when Mordin mentioned it in ME2. It's also kind of...racist? Aliens look all similar to you not because they are less diverse, but because as a human you are not equipped to distinguish alien features. It's like saying that, say, asians all look the same to a white person. Of course they don't, if the white guy has never been in contact with asians.
Humans being special due to genetic diversity struck me as wrong when Mordin mentioned it in ME2. It's also kind of...racist? Aliens look all similar to you not because they are less diverse, but because as a human you are not equipped to distinguish alien features. It's like saying that, say, asians all look the same to a white person. Of course they don't, if the white guy has never been in contact with asians.
Zomba13
Member
I mean so that the ending doesn't disappoint as much. The ending isn't as bad if everyone you care about has already had their closure (via death).
It's a manifestation of Mac Walters, Bioware's head writer.
Look at this guy self-congratulating himself/each other:
https://twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives
At that point you may as well not play the game.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
I'm watching the end again, and he never actually states what he is. He does say he is the Catalyst and the Citadel is a part of him though. And he later tells Shepard he is the first organic to stand here, perhaps implying he is not organic. He also states that the Crucible changed him and allowed for new possibilities. He calls himself the master of the Reapers and refers to them and himself as "us". He also says the Synthesis ending requires both of us, referring to Shepard and himself/reapers. This seems to imply that he is not organic, and the use of 'us' does seem to suggest he and the reapers are similar in being, but this is not explicit. He could be a god/mystic being and still refer to the reapers and himself as us as part of a collective group.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Infinite Space was more of a wacky anime version of Childhood's End, from what I remember, what with
the moon/Dyson Sphere getting all screwed up was the reason for Earth/Terra being all screwed up and all that jazz
They both end with warp gates being destroyed!
Like halfway done, although a little pointless now thanks to the Final Hours app. I'll probably still post it at some point, but god so many names to make strobing logos for!
No, he created the Reapers. He himself was almost certainly created by organics a long time ago, and almost certainly wiped them out. It's the only real explanation for why he has such a hard-on for exterminating organics before they can build powerful synthetics.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I thought the best part of the game was the comedy writing of crew interactions on the Normandy.
Can we get the comedy writer's version of the ending? You can even set it to Benny Hill and go full on farcical with it.
Can we get the comedy writer's version of the ending? You can even set it to Benny Hill and go full on farcical with it.
It is not a god just a program (VI) that controls the operations of the Reapers.
Speculating on what little we know, we don't know who created it or the Reapers.
Harbinger stated in ME1 that they have no beginning, but that's a lie because he makes it seem like the Reapers are gods and they are not. They (BW) simply didn't want to tell us.
My favorite quote:
[We] [g]ive you the details that you need to know, but dont get into the stuff that you dont need to know. Like How long have they been reaping? You dont need to know the answers to the mass effect universe.
Awesome.
Pollux
Member
Thanks for doing it. I look forward to it if you finish.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
No, it doesn't. There is no other franchise in games like this... one with such a massive scope with decisions that carry over from game to game. Not a single game like it, not one. This was a 5 year journey. I'm not going to feel better about it.
FullMetalx
Banned
watching the endings on youtube made me realize I got the worst possible ending (according to CVG). I wonder what I did wrong. I guess I should play some multiplayer.
FullMetalx
Banned
I remember that. But at least we knew for sure there was going to be a Halo 3. I personally thought the ending was rather cool. This ending though... doesn't really leave any room open for a ME4.
XANDER CAGE
Member
They're equally lazy, that's for sure.
Rodney McKay
Member
Not having an ending is a totally different can of worms than what ME3 did.
At least Halo 2 ended with Master Chief saying something badass.
Wasn't the last thing Shepard said, "Duhhhh, I don't know..."
Okay, beat the game a few hours ago and have been reading hard ever since. Let me throw in my two pennies.
The Catalyst is a VI, much like the Prothean VI. It appears as a child because it's rendering itself in Shepard mind, much like how Shep saw the Quarians as having suits inside the Geth server.
The Catalyst race had created the Citadel and the Mass Relays, but then an AI ended their culture. They defeated the AI, but still could not save themselves (succumbing to something like the Krogan with the Genophage). Knowing that organic life would evolve again, only to make the same mistakes, they created the Reapers as "The Solution." The Reapers were meant to destroy all advanced civilisations every ~50k years in order to prevent a massive AI related genocide.
Each cycle builds upon the last, and each Reaper cycle advances as well, until the events of ME3 where the organics pass the Reapers. Shep meets the Catalyst who is changed by the Crucible ("Creating new, 'possibilities'"), and then deems organics as having advanced enough to make the choice of mastering the synthetics, or merging with them. The Catalyst is still pretty down on the idea of destroying synthetic life.
I still don't know how the fuck Shep survives dropping on London out of mother-loving SPACE. Crank 3.
End thoughts on ending.
As to the "holy crap, with the Relays destroyed, everyone's FUCKED," angle.
FTL still exists. So, people in neighbouring solar systems can still get around.
Mass Relays destroy solar systems? Possibly the kind of detonation created by Shep is different than the one in the Arrival.
Thoughts on implications of the ending.
Even if everyone is fsked. The point is that Shep ends the cycles. Even if all the major races die out, the future races of the galaxy are safe to pursue their own destinies. That should satisfy everyone thinking this game is too human focused.
Overall game nitpicks.
How come the only city is on the Citadel? That suuuucks.
The Prothean seems like a pretty damned essential character.
I would have liked more of a Fallout type ending, where if you had gotten your galactic readiness up, you would have seen happy endings for each of the homeworlds, and if your rating was low, it would have shown all the planets in ruins. Have this tie in to who you recruited, so that the more readied the various races were, the better job they did at defending their homeworlds.
Is the only new non-DLC squad character Vega? Lame.
You have an Elcor describe the amazing battles on Dekuuna, and you don't let me see them?!
Final thoughts.
It's pretty disheartening to read some stuff on here. That lame "Final Hours" note, "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE." I had really hoped this whole thing was developed from before ME1. But Honestly, the plot makes sense. I like how the ending isn't just, "Shep lives, Reapers die, Mass Relays for everyone!"
Ungh... Tali clip-art.
Unnnggghh... Wintersun Starchild...
I wasn't too freaked out by the "lack" of dialog choices. I made my point when I needed to.
The Udina stuff seems tacked on. I'm reading that they just ret-con Udina as councillor in ME3, even if you made Anderson councillor in ME2.
I liked the trilogy, but it could have been tighter.
The Catalyst is a VI, much like the Prothean VI. It appears as a child because it's rendering itself in Shepard mind, much like how Shep saw the Quarians as having suits inside the Geth server.
The Catalyst race had created the Citadel and the Mass Relays, but then an AI ended their culture. They defeated the AI, but still could not save themselves (succumbing to something like the Krogan with the Genophage). Knowing that organic life would evolve again, only to make the same mistakes, they created the Reapers as "The Solution." The Reapers were meant to destroy all advanced civilisations every ~50k years in order to prevent a massive AI related genocide.
Each cycle builds upon the last, and each Reaper cycle advances as well, until the events of ME3 where the organics pass the Reapers. Shep meets the Catalyst who is changed by the Crucible ("Creating new, 'possibilities'"), and then deems organics as having advanced enough to make the choice of mastering the synthetics, or merging with them. The Catalyst is still pretty down on the idea of destroying synthetic life.
I still don't know how the fuck Shep survives dropping on London out of mother-loving SPACE. Crank 3.
End thoughts on ending.
As to the "holy crap, with the Relays destroyed, everyone's FUCKED," angle.
FTL still exists. So, people in neighbouring solar systems can still get around.
Mass Relays destroy solar systems? Possibly the kind of detonation created by Shep is different than the one in the Arrival.
Thoughts on implications of the ending.
Even if everyone is fsked. The point is that Shep ends the cycles. Even if all the major races die out, the future races of the galaxy are safe to pursue their own destinies. That should satisfy everyone thinking this game is too human focused.
Overall game nitpicks.
How come the only city is on the Citadel? That suuuucks.
The Prothean seems like a pretty damned essential character.
I would have liked more of a Fallout type ending, where if you had gotten your galactic readiness up, you would have seen happy endings for each of the homeworlds, and if your rating was low, it would have shown all the planets in ruins. Have this tie in to who you recruited, so that the more readied the various races were, the better job they did at defending their homeworlds.
Is the only new non-DLC squad character Vega? Lame.
You have an Elcor describe the amazing battles on Dekuuna, and you don't let me see them?!
Final thoughts.
It's pretty disheartening to read some stuff on here. That lame "Final Hours" note, "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE." I had really hoped this whole thing was developed from before ME1. But Honestly, the plot makes sense. I like how the ending isn't just, "Shep lives, Reapers die, Mass Relays for everyone!"
Ungh... Tali clip-art.
Unnnggghh... Wintersun Starchild...
I wasn't too freaked out by the "lack" of dialog choices. I made my point when I needed to.
The Udina stuff seems tacked on. I'm reading that they just ret-con Udina as councillor in ME3, even if you made Anderson councillor in ME2.
I liked the trilogy, but it could have been tighter.
After looking at all the endings online, turned out I got the best possible ending (in terms of the conversation that took place). I had above 5000 EMS iirc.
Also before doing the last mission I made sure of having 100% Galactic Readiness. Don't how much of an impact it makes, but it made a difference in my ending.
I can't agree with this criticism at all. The notion that Mass Relays blowing up should be devastating star systems, sure. That rather seems like an oversight unless it's a "different type of explosion" or whatever.
But that Mass Relays blowing up creates a dark ending? Well, yeah, that's kinda the whole point. With the Reapers came some rather useful things - the Citadel, the Mass Relay network, and other bits of technology that helped these races advance far ahead of what they could have. It sort of stands to reason that without the Reapers terrorizing the galaxy, most of these things should cease to exist. Even if the Citadel isn't destroyed in the ending you get, it still packs its bags and dips out of the galaxy with the Reapers.
These things were solely built as an insidious plan by the Catalyst in order to make sure these organics were led down a specific technological path, so it makes perfect sense that these things no longer exist after the Catalyst and the Reapers are out of the equation. Can't have your cake and eat it too; you want those Mass Relays kept intact, then maybe you should have let the Catalyst do his thing.
Besides, they still have FTL and QECs.NihonTiger90
Member
Man, I have wanted to finish ME3 ... but I just can't will myself to. 
Not knowing how it ends.
Not knowing how it ends.FullMetalx
Banned
@Dr. Acula
Your idea about the catalysts actually makes a lot of sense. Well done!
Your idea about the catalysts actually makes a lot of sense. Well done!
Empty Space
Member
Like everybody else you will come back in less then a day and go ugh those ending were terrible.
If you choose the Control option then you could just rebuild them because you have the technology - Reaper Force Activate!I can't agree with this criticism at all. The notion that Mass Relays blowing up should be devastating star systems, sure. That rather seems like an oversight unless it's a "different type of explosion" or whatever.
But that Mass Relays blowing up creates a dark ending? Well, yeah, that's kinda the whole point. With the Reapers came some rather useful things - the Citadel, the Mass Relay network, and other bits of technology that helped these races advance far ahead of what they could have. It sort of stands to reason that without the Reapers terrorizing the galaxy, most of these things should cease to exist. Even if the Citadel isn't destroyed in the ending you get, it still packs its bags and dips out of the galaxy with the Reapers.
These things were solely built as an insidious plan by the Catalyst in order to make sure these organics were led down a specific technological path, so it makes perfect sense that these things no longer exist after the Catalyst and the Reapers are out of the equation. Can't have your cake and eat it too; you want those Mass Relays kept intact, then maybe you should have let the Catalyst do his thing.
Indoctrination confirmed.
Edit: Wait, why are you replaying from ME3 instead of from ME1?
I think that the catalyst is actually the first AI that (successfully) rebelled against organics.
Consumed by guilt after realizing he had committed genocide, and knowing first hand how synthetic minds work, he decides that AIs killing organics is inevitable and sets up the reapers to keep a registry of each organic civilization.
Now this answers what was the crucible. It wasn't a device to kill the reapers, but a device to kill the Catalyst, which each cycle discovered was the Citadel. When the Protheans cut off the mass relay in the Citadel, they not only delayed the next reaper invasion, but also cut off the catalyst from its natural defenses, which was an important step in destroying the Citadel.
Of course this only answers for the red and blue ending. Being inside the Crucible, the Catalyst is fucked and has to bullshit his way out. Control let's the catalyst live for another battle. Destroy uses the Crucible to his intended goal. But Synthesis? You got me there. That's plain old bullshit.
Indoctrination confirmed.
Edit: Wait, why are you replaying from ME3 instead of from ME1?
I don't think I can deal with going through ME1 and 2 again.
You know that feeling when you got a bit of a sore throat, and you just know you're going to wake up tomorrow with a cold, but you're just praying that you're not going to get sick?
I think you can. I believe in you!
XANDER CAGE
Member
ME1 - rad soundtrack, omg all dat worldbuilding
ME2 - better action, some neato character dialogue
you can do it!
The sad thing is that it truly is an ending that just gets worse the more you think about it.
The Normandy was too integrated with its AI, so when the shockwave altered all the AIs in the galaxy, it hit the Normandy hard.
I swear I hear a weird humming in Liara's room now. Goddammit.
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