Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto
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Anasui Kishibe
Banned
damn, I could probably camp for the second time in my life (first was with SMG2 launch because they were giving away a bag full of Nintendo stuff, which i got stolen the same night obviously)
but the glory of a HD Nintendo console might be worth standing among sweaty yobs
but the glory of a HD Nintendo console might be worth standing among sweaty yobs
3DS was the first console I've bought on launch, and sure, it probably would have been more logical to wait until a game that I actually wanted came out, but I couldn't wait. And I wanted to see what buying at launch was like! Turns out that it's really, really awesome for the first week or two, then it's like "oh... so when are the games coming out for it?" Loving my 3DS now that there's some great games on it though.
If WiiU has a good launch lineup and is at a price I can afford, I'll consider getting it Day 1. Hoping Pikmin 3 will be at launch with NSMB Mii in launch window, plus a couple of decent unannounced games in launch window.
If WiiU has a good launch lineup and is at a price I can afford, I'll consider getting it Day 1. Hoping Pikmin 3 will be at launch with NSMB Mii in launch window, plus a couple of decent unannounced games in launch window.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Oddduck said:
Wii U can easily be quite inferior and still have a positive effect; just not incompatibly inferior. I got a Wii first. Eventually I ended up getting the HD systems for the things that just weren't possible on Wii. But if Wii had been close enough to get a downgraded port of the Final Fantasies and Mass Effects of the world, I wouldn't have needed them at all. Especially since Wii U is going to be first to the market, a lot of people are going to have a Wii U first--they just need to convince them it's more worth their money to buy more Wii U games than to buy a second/third machine to play some of the same games with higher visual quality.Oddduck said:
Same here, I'm currently playing all my games again
At least, till I get Xenoblade, Kirby's: RTDL and Mario Party 9
Help out a troubled brain here.
If laptop manufacturers can sell products for 500 bucks or less, without the "luxuary" to be able to take a loss, and a not too marginal portion of the manufacturing cost goes to a screen, battery and HDD, which are also taking up space and creating heat. Yet for this price you can generally find a laptop with a i3-i5 and 4 GB of RAM, and a dedicated (though low end) GPU with a licensed Windows OS. Then how is it impossible for Nintendo to make something fit into a case that isn't tinier than an average laptop, has no space taken up by HDD or battery (hence less heat & costs as well), being able to take a loss on hardware?
I understand that these hardware components can't be compared directly, but at least on the subject of heat, why wouldn't it be possible to keep a WiiU cool if it's only twice as potent as 7 year old tech?
If laptop manufacturers can sell products for 500 bucks or less, without the "luxuary" to be able to take a loss, and a not too marginal portion of the manufacturing cost goes to a screen, battery and HDD, which are also taking up space and creating heat. Yet for this price you can generally find a laptop with a i3-i5 and 4 GB of RAM, and a dedicated (though low end) GPU with a licensed Windows OS. Then how is it impossible for Nintendo to make something fit into a case that isn't tinier than an average laptop, has no space taken up by HDD or battery (hence less heat & costs as well), being able to take a loss on hardware?
I understand that these hardware components can't be compared directly, but at least on the subject of heat, why wouldn't it be possible to keep a WiiU cool if it's only twice as potent as 7 year old tech?
This is key. The Wii U launching first gets it into hands first.. and I hear around here plenty of time, "I'd like to go down to one console, but.."
If Nintendo can take away that "but.." part by making it sufficiently capable of handling ports, they'd be in a prime spot to be that one console that so many folks talk about.
I remember those first specs that supposedly existed in one machine Nintendo was considering (2 cpus, modernish GPU with 256 MB RAM), that machine could have done respectable downports of major titles in SD resolution.
DaSorcerer7
Member
I think you're exactly right on that
If the Wii-U turns out to be nothing more than an overglorified 360 or PS3 in power, that one system thing may work against Nintendo and people ask why get that system if it's not much more powerful. Chances are a lot of the core games will be third party ports from existing systems as mentioned and they won't be specially tailored for the Wii-U's capabilities, other than it's finally a Nintendo HD console.
Same here, I'm currently playing all my games again
At least, till I get Xenoblade, Kirby's: RTDL and Mario Party 9
For the last few gens, I've always used the final year of the console's life to replay favorites and clean-up on anything I've missed. So for this year, I'm most likely replaying the Mario Galaxy games (I didn't do any of the Luigi content on either title, so this will take-up my whole summer), finally unwrapping Fragile Dreams and A Boy and His Blob, replaying Beyond Good & Evil (a once-per-year weekend event), Xenoblade, and maaaaybe Pikmin right before launch.. if I'm not too distracted by the pre-launch coverage and antics found online.
pieatorium
Member
Yeah, having the third party support will be good bullet point but they need some exclusives that will get people to jump over. I would honestly be shocked if Sony and MS both don't drop price by $50(or more?) this E3 for the holidays to make WiiU look more expensive (and to boost their own sales obviously).
That would be a good thing... For Nintendo!
I believe people will much more look at Wii U as a next-gen system if the price point difference is bigger between ps360 and Wii U.
Regarding 3rd party exclusives... No. That's not even the state where Nintendo is: They target multiplatform titles. Getting 3rd party exclusives, it's not really the problem here. They already have Lego GTA and DQX. Nintendo's IPs alone are more than are enought for a console. If they get most of 3rd party multiplatform titles, it will be a great achievement for Nintendo.
There isn't anymore great western 3rd party exclusives, and japaneses ones are MonHun and DraQue. I believe FF will remain multiplatform at least for the next-gen, and it will be another megaton if FF return on a Nintendo home console (for a main entry in the series).
No, Nintendo also had real systems at E3. Those seemingly contained the exact same PCB as the old V10001 devkits.
pieatorium
Member
Just like what happened with the 3ds and Vita, oh wait.
I didn't say third party exclusive I said exclusives.
The price drops are a no-brainer. If Nintendo were in the same position, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
Part of me is wondering if they'll announce one price drop at E3 and then another one some time in Autumn. That'd be playing hardball.
aren't 1st and 2nd party games an exclusive by definition?
Smiles and Cries
Member
have not even slept yet, have been playing GTA:SA checking the thread for leaks you guys are on yet another topic
pieatorium
Member
yes but what I said in the initial post was exclusives that would get people to jump over. Vita has alot of first party and some third party exclusives but not much that has people ready to buy the highest priced out of all the alternatives.
well, i think it's silly questioning nintendo 1st and 2nd party games ability to sell systems... that's a given... nintendo 1st and 2nd party will always drive people who like nintendo games to purchase their console...
the only part worth discussing is 3rd party exclusive/multiplatform support
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Good thing Wii U doesn't have to rely on Sony games to sell it.
pieatorium
Member
Well theres the N64... and Gamecube...., they didn't sell that many systems...... Are we likely to see Mario or Mario Kart at launch.....? We know Smash has only just started......, Zelda is probably a fair way off too......3DS didnt start to sell well until those bigger games came....
LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE.
lol, we've discussed launch titles in this thread for at least a few times.
Mario Kart team was just finished with 7 on 3DS so that'll be a while. Smash, as you said, just started dev. Zelda is a long way too, since they just finished Skyward Sword. 2D NSMB could be at launch as NSMB Mii but there's also a 2D NSMB announced for 3DS so who knows what'll happen (cross platform?). Monster Games is probably going to do some kind of Excite game. Pikmin 3 might be launch. Wii U Sports is probably going to be launch too.
And I still don't think that Nintendo should put a Mario at launch. It'll cannibalise sales off Pikmin 3 or other Nintendo IPs launching with it. Also, if 3rd party games sell badly at launch, they'll say Nintendo is 'competing' against them again or similar BS.
Of course, as seen with the 3DS, they can't launch with just Pikmin 3 or other not well known IPs. They'd best be served by releasing something like Warioware or Donkey Kong; something famous enough to carry the system at launch but not big enough to overwhelm all the other titles. They should leave Mario as an ace in the hole or for a killer holiday at their leisure.
bgassassin
Member
From past discussions people said it they would have to do it individually for each game for 1080p. That makes a lot of sense as to why they wouldn't do it. That and selling HD versions.
I still say some are overrating the issue with that case. The CPU/GPU will be most likely towards the back of the console (like Wii), probably just in front of the Nintendo logo above the fan according the picture. Considering they pretty much won't be trying to put a GPU in there that's 100W on it's own, as long as they are able to get the heat out fast it won't be an issue. Then added length should help dissipate any remaining heat in the console.
invaderzim69
Member
I would hate to drop the Wii U controller and crack the screen. I hope Nintendo adds a strap for it.
pieatorium
Member
Metroid would be the perfect system opener as nintendo's big launch game imo.
Pfff... It's nintendo!
double strap, rubber coating and a packed in piece of foam to secure that thing from dropping to hard.
piece of foam will also be useable as AR-Card. You heard it hear first.
oh sure! but they were still able to substain themeselves...
nintendo doing bad > sony doing bad...
vita proves this point.
what nintendo really needs is 3rd party support, 1st party will be awesome, no one will argue about that =D
i'm not too sure about metroid being the perfect launch title, its sales never been really noteworthy
Oh yeah, forgot about Metroid
But who's going to make it?
A complete reboot to wipe out the memories of M:OM could work.
Monster Games recently hired a character animator, so their next game is probably character driven. Not that this completely rules out Excite, but it opens up some possibilities.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Return to Excitebike, perhaps? 'Character' could be referring to the visible riders of the bikes. With all of the crashes/moves/etc, there are a ton of things to deal with.
I'd welcome a return to Excitebike with open arms.
Nintendo's always traditionally have at least one sports/extreme sports game at launch. If Monster Games isn't doing it, then who'll fill the gap?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I disagree completely.
The absolute first thing you want is a large userbase. A 2D Mario has proven to be a system-seller on every system. I think New Super Mario Bros. Mii NEEDS to be a launch title and then Nintendo will have a giant userbase.
Sorry, but Pikmin/Metroid/Excite aren't system-sellers. Nintendo needs these things in the hands of consumers ASAP because they have no clue when Sony/MS are releasing their new systems.
Oh yeah, forgot about Metroid
But who's going to make it?
A complete reboot to wipe out the memories of M:OM could work.
that would probably help, but even Prime sales were not spectacular... iirc they were about 1/1.5 WW
Metroid + Pikmin would probably be a good combo
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
While IBM's edram is still "DRAM" with all corresponding drawbacks, in big-enough configurations it provides random-access latencies very comparable to SRAM's random access. With the increase of addressable memory IBM's edram catches up and eventually takes the lead in latencies, thanks to significant savings in the "wiring" stage. From what I recall reading in papers, at 8MB IBM's tech is already on par or at a minor lead WRT cumulative latency. And eDRAM has much better density than SRAM, so you can put much more eDRAM on the same silicon area (~3x). You'd still use SRAM for on-chip closely-coupled buffers, register files and such, though, where that tech has no alternatives.
Re 1T-SRAM - it mimics SRAM fairly well in having neither refresh nor precharge penalties (from reading papers - I'm not an IC engineer), so basically one can think of 1T-SRAM as reasonably-performing SRAM for all intents and purposes (think of cube's RAM as PC's L3). That's why the edram-vs-SRAM comparison is relevant here.
Here's an academic paper that gives some perspective on the development of DRAM over the years, with some extra emphasis on the eternal struggle between BW and latency.
megashock5
Member
I'd be interested to see what Monster could do with Wave Race. Excite Truck, ExciteBOTs, and Excite Bike World Rally we are very solid, fun racing titles. I'd like to see what they can do with another type of racing. F-Zero, maybe?
pieatorium
Member
Well I was speaking for the west with metroid I'm not sure how it does in Japan so they would likely need a something else there. My comment on the 64 and GC, you could even throw the Wii decline in here, is that Nintendo can sell systems but they can't do it alone. WiiU is going to be in an interesting position. It needs to pull people off their current systems in it's first year and then hold off the next systems from then on. Will be really cool to see if they can pull it off.
but still they don't have to overshadow 3rd parties... i think a middle ground must be founded for launch titles... they can hold SMBM for the 3rd month, and that would mean release the game in time for xmas if they actually release the console in september.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
A "middle ground" could be that Nintendo releases the Mario game as their only first-party title and subsequently offers Pikmin/Metroid/etc in the following months.
That's not "overshadowing" 3rd parties at all.
I admitted as much in my post.
What do you think?
Yes, I'd like to see Monster given a chance with Wave Race. Once Nintendo deems them ready/have enough experience, they can do F-Zero, one as good as GX. Then, all will be right with the world.
but still that would be the sequel of one of the best selling games of this/last gen...
it's kinda like releasing mario kart for launch... 3rd parties would be completely overshadowed
That's a job for a ragdoll system, not really something that requires a dedicated character animator. Especially not someone with a movie industry background.
pieatorium
Member
I thought they were bigger than that, looked em up. First one did 1.5m in US alone but sales seemed to slow and 3 only did 1.3 worldwide.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Donkey Kong--yes.
Wario--No.
I think the game has to be big enough to make people want to buy the system. Another DKC will do that, as the first one sold REALLY well.
I still don't get the argument that releasing a Mario game would "overshadow" 3rd parties. That's ridiculous.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Hmmm...what else could Excite be doing, then? It would seem odd for them to move to a character-driven game.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I couldn't see anyone else having a stab at trying to answer this -- I'm no expert, but my understanding of it would be something like this:
Although you might have small dedicated lines of laptops (think Acer Timeline or something), they do actually share components with millions of other laptops and computer devices. i3/i5/i7 compatible motherboards are in everything these days, memory is standard, they use standard (onboard or otherwise) mobile graphics parts from ATI and Nvidia, they all use similar broadcom (or other) wireless interfaces, they all have mass produced cooling solutions, mass produced hard disks, mass produced optical drives, mass produced LCDs and so forth. Yields are high and sold to multiple manufacturers, so by virtue, the hardware comes cheaper. If you get a laptop that is doing something special - like if it has the Macbook air style form factor, or if it has a 10+ hour battery life and amazing graphics, you quickly find that the price goes above and beyond $500 because it is more specialised. OEMs have bulk licensing deals on the OS, so that isn't as burdensome a cost as you might think.
In a console, everything about the architecture is customised. Memory isn't just slapped onto the board, the whole architecture is designed to work optimally with the other 'known' components, the CPU will be a customised variant of an existing product, but it will have redundant instruction sets culled, special ones added, it'll be clocked and optimised for gaming, and perhaps unified with other components in a System On Chip design. They will attempt to eradicate or compensate for all bottlenecks. There will be specific design decisions made to reflect security concerns, for example - the starlet ARM based chip in the Wii handled a lot of security functions, the Matsushita drive design was designed to perform differently from a regular DVD drive and also had special security instructions built in. In essence, I can say this in a much simpler way - consoles require much more specialised and targetted R&D / testing at the hardware level. Then you should factor in any R&D needed on peripherals, SDK / engine licensing costs (although these should be factored into the cost of a dev kit, the manufacturer may choose to eat costs in order to encourage support), the cost of ongoing support and maintenance... it all adds up.
All of this said, a $199-250 new console could probably perform appreciably better for gaming than a similarly priced laptop will come this fall. At least for a short while.
It's most likely still a racing game, just something with a bigger focus on characters. Maybe F-Zero. If they're even still working with Nintendo, that is.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
No news makes IceDoesntHelp something something