Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Generic said:
My position is that the authors word can illuminate matters on the work, bring into light certain themes or just bits of info that you didn't consider before. But the work ultimately stands on it's own, and should be evaluated as such.
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OK- you can disregard my previous post. I now see where you're coming from.

Couldn't disagree more, but that's neither here nor there. It's not a good enough reason to derail this freight train of a thread.
 
Come to think of it, the Reapers as a race seem like one mindless collective. If that's not the case, how come none of them ever once rebelled (Marauder Shields joke aside) against the idea of harvesting organics? Not even one of them tries to help organics in different way than harvesting them. Not a lot of individuality inside those squid shells.
 
Replicant said:
Come to think of it, the Reapers as a race seem like one mindless collective. If that's not the case, how come none of them ever once rebelled (Marauder Shields joke aside) against the idea of harvesting organics? Not even one of them tries to help organics in different way than harvesting them. Not a lot of individuality inside those squid shells.
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Harbinger fucks up any Reaper who steps out of line, that's why. Krogan methods of governing.
 
dragonelite said:
What are the possibility a team of hackers/programmers can patch in a new ending of something or change things?
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Well, the tools do exist to allow new endings to be added.

d63.jpg
 
Derrick01 said:
I think Casey just set a new record for longest post without saying anything significant.

It plays into what that supposed ex PR guy was saying in that recent post. "We're listening. We're taking feedback." Just to get us to shut up.
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Oh it definitely fits the PR mold. I just love how he name drops the New York Times and Penny Arcade in there like its some EA press release. And then proceeds to try and marginalize people criticizing the ending by trying to make it out as a vocal minority of only the most "passionate" of fans that needed more closure, more answers and more time to say goodbye.

No Casey, I wanted an ending that didn't resort to Space Magic and magical crew members teleporting to Jurassic Park.
 
Derrick01 said:
I think Casey just set a new record for longest post without saying anything significant.

It plays into what that supposed ex PR guy was saying in that recent post. "We're listening. We're taking feedback." Just to get us to shut up.
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Exactly. The shit storm has hit and who knows how many more are yet to finish/play. It's only going to get worse, so the PR nuke bunker tactic is invalid.

I'm still in shock about the whole thing, talk about PR/marketing suicide.
 
Lyphen said:
"What kind of DLC do you want?"
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Blue!

Replicant said:
Come to think of it, the Reapers as a race seem like one mindless collective. If that's not the case, how come none of them ever once rebelled (Marauder Shields joke aside) against the idea of harvesting organics? Not even one of them tries to help organics in different way than harvesting them. Not a lot of individuality inside those squid shells.
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The Reaper Code of honor.
 
Derrick01 said:
I think Casey just set a new record for longest post without saying anything significant.

It plays into what that supposed ex PR guy was saying in that recent post. "We're listening. We're taking feedback." Just to get us to shut up.
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I think they like hearing us talk about how we want more, it's like all they hear is "Cha-ching, Cha-ching cha-ching."

10$ DLC answering questions incoming.
 
LAUGHTREY said:
I think they like hearing us talk about how we want more, it's like all they hear is "Cha-ching, Cha-ching cha-ching."

10$ DLC answering questions incoming.
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It's what EA wants to hear, and the business side of BioWare.

I sincerely doubt this vociferous condemnation of the ending as utter shit is what the writers who wrote the ending want to hear. It's a tremendous criticism of their work and their competency.
 
Jibbajabbawockky said:
Oh it definitely fits the PR mold. I just love how he name drops the New York Times and Penny Arcade in there like its some EA press release. And then proceeds to try and marginalize people criticizing the ending by trying to make it out as a vocal minority of only the most "passionate" of fans that needed more closure, more answers and more time to say goodbye.

No Casey, I wanted an ending that didn't resort to Space Magic and magical crew members teleporting to Jurassic Park.
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Exactly I keep things in perspective but his post made me feel a little angry. Take my money bro.
 
Cagey said:
It's what EA wants to hear, and the business side of BioWare.

I sincerely doubt this vociferous condemnation of the ending as utter shit is what the writers who wrote the ending want to hear. It's a tremendous criticism of their work and their competency.
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I hope whoever wrote the ending is just drowning in tears and booze right now.

Actually, probably not though. Those stupid notes about the ending, probably loving it that no one knows what the fuck just happened. Probably thinks he's uber-artsy and higher level.
 
Generic said:
Well, look at George lucas. 20 years after the Original trilogy has been solidified into our minds of the story of Luke going on a hero's journey, George goes "NOPE, IT WAS ALL ABOUT ANAKIN'S REDEMPTION". Are you seriously going to take his point of view on this simply because he is the author?

My point is the product that they write stands alone in it's evaluation. If you can find a way that interprets it that it works perfectly because there is hundreds of pieces of evidence for it. Every page re-enforces this interpretation, but then the author says "Actually, it was about something totally different." Mass Effect has it bad because the synthetic vs organic eternal conflict theme was resolved in that same game and goes against that thematically, but it doesn't have to be that. It can just be an interpretation that has far less evidence and likelihood going for it. There doesn't need to be only one definitive interpretation of a work. Both can exist independantly from each other. Unless the author writes a sequel that specifically contradicts THAT interpretation, there is no reason to consider it invalid.

My position is that the authors word can illuminate matters on the work, bring into light certain themes that existed before. But the work ultimately stands on it's own, and should be evaluated as such.
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We just disagree fundamentally about the nature of literary criticism. I disagree entirely with the bolded, and as I said before that's fine. We're just proponents of two opposing academic theories. I would just warn you about equating speculation that cannot be falsified with a conflicting interpretation, especially if the author's come out and said that's not what we wrote the ending to be. Even if they made a new game and it started out with a VO saying Shepard was not indoctrinated, you could just argue that new game was still part of the indoctrination. At a certain point your theory becomes self-fulfilling.
 
bigace33 said:
This just makes me even angrier. He said all that to say, "deal with it".
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Nah, he said all that to say "Hey, we may or may not throw you a bone for post-epilogue DLC, but for now, all we're even committing to in the vaguest of terms is the assurance of some single-player DLC where you play as Shepard."

Indoctrination theory has been officially blown out of the water unless Bioware's trolling has ascended to godhood levels.
 
Jibbajabbawockky said:
Oh it definitely fits the PR mold. I just love how he name drops the New York Times and Penny Arcade in there like its some EA press release. And then proceeds to try and marginalize people criticizing the ending by trying to make it out as a vocal minority of only the most "passionate" of fans that needed more closure, more answers and more time to say goodbye.

No Casey, I wanted an ending that didn't resort to Space Magic and magical crew members teleporting to Jurassic Park.
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Yeah name dropping normally respectable outlets like the NY Times (outside of gaming at least) comes off as a "what the fuck do you all know" slam on the complainers. It read like a half press release, half normal forum post.

With a developer who has more leeway with fans I could buy it, but I'm not buying this. They'll need to show something before I can believe them.
 
I guess the answer to my forthcoming question is Space Jesus Did It, but I'll ask anyway.

Why would aliens build a doomsday device without an automatic- or remote trigger? And why would they build such a device and allow for THREE WHOLLY DIFFERENT DOOMSDAY OUTCOMES?

I thought the goal was to destroy the Reapers.

Also, if Space Jesus did it, why would he even bother?
 
Derrick01 said:
Yeah name dropping normally respectable outlets like the NY Times (outside of gaming at least) comes off as a "what the fuck do you all know" slam on the complainers. It read like a half press release, half normal forum post.

With a developer who has more leeway with fans I could buy it, but I'm not buying this. They'll need to show something before I can believe them.
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It's a valid point though. Even knowing the ending, If I could go back I'd still buy the game. Saying it ruins ME3 is going over the line, let alone saying it ruins the whole trilogy.
 
If BioWare is really using delay tactic like that PR dude say then I will go and write a few more negative reviews.

Fuck this shit if they are playing dirty I will do my job to warn the potential buyers.
 
Y2Kev said:
Key pieces of the indoc ending seem to rely on lazy texturing.
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No very little of the theory relies on textures. I'm sure you're talking about the mako thing, that was mentioned briefly back near the start of it. Some of the biggest elements I think of the theory are:

-Shepard wakes up back on earth if you choose destroy, even though he was suppose to have died according to the kid. The kid lied about that, he was probably lying about everything. The kid didn't teleport him back down to earth, and even if he did he should be dead regardless.

-His eyes change to match saren's and TIMs if you choose merge or control, but not if you choose destroy.

-TIM and Anderson being on the citadel, even though you can hear over the radio no one made it through. Plus Anderson's "stunned" behavior in the control room. The two being there as the two sides of shepards psyche seems much more plausible.

Reaper 'indoctrination' is an insidious means of corruptiong organic minds, 'reprogramming' the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.

The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of 'being watched' and hallucinations of 'ghostly' presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.

Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitous awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years."
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-Plus all the dreams and later headaches shepard was having through out the game pretty much meets the codex definition of indoctrination exactly. Then on top of that he sees what is most likely harbringer as a god like being. That'd fall under superstitious awe.

The theory is pretty good, plenty of holes though and it actually leaves things more open than other interpretations, but it's almost too good for bioware to come up with. I don't personally think there'll be an addition to the ending, though most people who believe in the indoctrination theory do. I think they're going to just leave it completely open.
And I'm not saying I'm 100% sure it's correct because there is no way to prove it, but dismissing it because you think it's based on lazy texturing isn't right either.
 
Now that I think about it. Space child being behind the Crucible also cheapens the "every cycle added to its design" thing.
 
MC Safety said:
I guess the answer to my forthcoming question is Space Jesus Did It, but I'll ask anyway.

Why would aliens build a doomsday device without an automatic- or remote trigger? And why would they build such a device and allow for THREE WHOLLY DIFFERENT DOOMSDAY OUTCOMES?

I thought the goal was to destroy the Reapers.

Also, if Space Jesus did it, why would he even bother?
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What are you even talking about?

You have understood like..nothing of what was shown. There was no doomsday device.
 
Derrick01 said:
I think Casey just set a new record for longest post without saying anything significant.

It plays into what that supposed ex PR guy was saying in that recent post. "We're listening. We're taking feedback." Just to get us to shut up.
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It's also ignoring the biggest factors as to why most people dislike the ending. It's not so much the lack of closure, although that's certainly a part of it. It's the lack of choices, and the lack of logic.

He's basically saying, "hey just so you guys know we're gonna be pushing out some DLC over the next year so that so you play some new missions with the characters that will probably be unrelated to the ending and won't actually change anything besides putting more money in our pockets from you suckers LOL."

I mean, do they really think they can pull out the art line on us? "It's art! It's the Mona Lisa of videogame endings! What do you mean it's a crayon stick figure? You clearly just don't get it."
 
MC Safety said:
Why would aliens build a doomsday device without an automatic- or remote trigger? And why would they build such a device and allow for THREE WHOLLY DIFFERENT DOOMSDAY OUTCOMES?
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The Citadel Code got a firmware update due to the Crucible. That's all.

What's new in Citadel VI "Space Kid" 2.0:
  1. Space Magic
  2. Three Color Schemes: Red, Green, Blue.
  3. Options on saying "Wake up." or "Why are you here?"

Y2Kev said:
Why does he recommend you beat the game before you read this? He says absolutely nothing.
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So that you don't hate him?
 
I want to punish the Official Thread for being defeated by the power of speculation. Title change to Official Junior Thread or bust!

As per the Casey post, yeah added nothing to what PR has already done. I know no more after having read it than I did before.
 
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