Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Except the problem with all the ME games is that Paragon choices end up working better for everyone 90% of the time.

Some of the Renegade options are less "renegade" and more "absolute dickhole" and serve no purpose other than to be mean. Like Killing Shi'ala on ME1 after her helping you or shooting Samara's youngest daughter point blank in the face.

One thing Bioware doesn't do right is moral ambiguity.
 
I have nothing against Vega, he's a pretty cool dude in my book. Takes part in some of the best conversations in the game (w/ Garrus, Javik).
 
Just finished the game, ending was fucking stupid, pretty much all my decisions were pointless in the end. I'm kinda annoyed I even bothered playing these games now.
 
Vega overcame his terrible design to be a decent character. Not much to him, but what was there was not bad.

Ashely was fucking terrible in this game. I don't know if Kaiden was as well. She has been a horrible person since her space racist days, so she might just be more abrasive. Should have left her on Mars. Her only redeeming moment is when Vega gets her trashed.

edit: Just looking at that character build. Is it actually possible to hit level 60 in a single playthrough? I imported a level 30, and I only got to like 56 or 57, missing only one sidequest.
 
I have nothing against Vega, he's a pretty cool dude in my book. Takes part in some of the best conversations in the game (w/ Garrus, Javik).
I wonder how many lines he has compared to everyone else. Also, just because he talks to cool people doesn't make him cool.

Just finished the game, ending was fucking stupid, pretty much all my decisions were pointless in the end. I'm kinda annoyed I even bothered playing these games now.
Welcome to the support group. We're here to help.

Vega overcame his terrible design to be a decent character. Not much to him, but what was there was not bad.

Ashely was fucking terrible in this game. I don't know if Kaiden was as well. She has been a horrible person since her space racist days, so she might just be more abrasive. Should have left her on Mars. Her only redeeming moment is when Vega gets her trashed.
Kaiden's voice actor sounded drunk during all his conversations. And he didn't say anything if you didn't romance him. So he's pretty much a non-character.

He even tells Shepard that he "laws" her/him during their nightcap. :lol
 
What bothered me about Vega is everything felt so forced.

The nicknames felt like the writers had marathoned Lost while stuck at the office, so they decided this guy has to give you completely unnecessary nicknames. The "OH MAN I AM A LOOSE CANON CRASHING THIS SHUTTLE WOO" stuff was stupid. The design was forced (really, people are still doing tribal tattoos in 2212?).

Just genuinely did not like him, but I very rarely like human squadmates in Mass Effect Bioware games.
 
At this point, Bioware would be crazy to not just pretend the "indoctrination" theory was the plan from the beginning, because at least theres something in that interpretation to think about.

In my eyes (and perhaps I'm also being indoctrinated) most of the "facts" people are using to back up the theory are signs of a rushed product. Thats all it looks like to me. Bioware claiming this was their original intention, be it the truth or otherwise, would allow them time to step away and come up with something a little more focused and polished- certainly a wise decision, though its clear that they'll never be able to meet all expectation.

A couple of loose thoughts to add on to the discussion over the ending:

- How cool would it have been if it turned out Shepard was actually a synthetic? This was a silly pet theory of mine, not one I expected to happen, but one that seemed appropriate given the nature of the game's ending. Think about it: TIM can't afford the loss of someone so vital to mankind's position, so he creates a synthetic version of Shepard that looks and acts identically to the original, so much so so that it even has itself fooled. Plus its more believable than them simply bringing charred remains (remember his brain, the core of one's personality, must have been completely destroyed) back to life.

This would give the ending scene with TIM a powerful twist ("You aren't even the real Shepard- I created you in order to further my own interests") and add a lot of weight to the game's attempt at making you contemplate the nature of organic and synthetic life. Also, it would be neat to find out the savior of organic life was actually a synthetic meant to replicate organic life- I'm sure the Reapers would get a kick out of that.

-Speaking of the Reapers, I'm fine with them being such big fans of Gurren Lagann, but it would have been nice if they did a little more convincing on their end (especially in the face of you negotiating a peace with synthetics...). Picture the same scene with the Catalyst, though this time around Shepard is basically lectured on how synthetic life has no limitations, that it has already seen and conquered the universe, and that organic life is/was only a stepping stone on the path to creating synthetic life, nothing more. Organics are kept around as a novelty, galaxies tended to and "weeded" like gardens.

Killing life to save life? Okay, sure, I can deal with that. I just imagine an AI of that magnitude would have a lot of time to come up with a really compelling argument to the first pathetic organic it meets. Maybe just throw out some statistics to back up their theory ("This is what has happened an untold billion number of times before your own cycle", etc) and make it seem like they really are doing organic life a service, since thats apparently how they see it (note: I fully expect, like Gurren Lagann, for their to be a "something" beyond the Reapers (as the Anti-Spiral were to the Spiral King) that will become much more interested in the galaxy in light of the Reaper's failure)


Aside from the poor delivery, I think the ending leaves the Mass Effect universe in a very interesting place, and am fascinated by what will come out of the state Shepard has left the entire galaxy in, especially now that everyone is pretty much stuck wherever they were at the time of SPACE MAGIC. I never asked for a happy ending, just a satisfying one, so I'm at least interested in what they decide to do next.
 
Took a peak here

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/347/index/10031752/1#10065000

That seems like it would be the most fun, I think I'm going go with Stasis
Warp -> Throw for armored/barrier units

Stasis -> Throw for everything else

Use Liara's singularity

Remember that biotic detonation damage is calculated by what rank the powers are in, not force or damage. So cooldown reductions and 'bonus power' perks (Stasis rank 5, 30% chance to not trigger a cd) are good.
Vega overcame his terrible design to be a decent character. Not much to him, but what was there was not bad.

Ashely was fucking terrible in this game. I don't know if Kaiden was as well. She has been a horrible person since her space racist days, so she might just be more abrasive. Should have left her on Mars. Her only redeeming moment is when Vega gets her trashed.

edit: Just looking at that character build. Is it actually possible to hit level 60 in a single playthrough? I imported a level 30, and I only got to like 56 or 57, missing only one sidequest.

I hit like 57 in the end, with my 30 import Shepard.
 
Kaiden's voice actor sounded drunk during all his conversations. And he didn't say anything if you didn't romance him. So he's pretty much a non-character.

That is one of my problems. You get much less dialogue from romanceable characters. Liara, Garrus, Ashley (presumptively Tali as well) run out of dialogue much more quickly, where I assume they would normally have some dialogue. Or maybe just because I got them earlier and spoke after every mission, maybe they ran out of non mission-specific dialogue sooner. Definitely seemed like less, and based on past games it would be true.

It just seems like an alternative, non-romance path dialogue would be a cheap way to bump up replayability.
 
So, i've been wondering... all the rooms in the Normandy are actually being used, visited by the crew... but what about the old one where Thane used to be? Why do we still have access to it if no one ever goes there? I mean, they did shut down the room where Jacob was since its useless, so why not the one where Thane was? Future DLC character maybe?
 
Vega overcame his terrible design to be a decent character. Not much to him, but what was there was not bad.

Ashely was fucking terrible in this game. I don't know if Kaiden was as well. She has been a horrible person since her space racist days, so she might just be more abrasive. Should have left her on Mars. Her only redeeming moment is when Vega gets her trashed.

edit: Just looking at that character build. Is it actually possible to hit level 60 in a single playthrough? I imported a level 30, and I only got to like 56 or 57, missing only one sidequest.

I hit 60 in my first playthrough.

edit: oohp, nope I lied. My mistake.
 
So what other DLC would you guys like to see other than the almost obvious Omega one?

Nothing interests me (including omega), with the endings as they are. Because whats the point of Taking back omega when the planet is going to be incinerated when the Mass Relay is destroyed? I mean Omega is right next to one.

Nothing you do pre-end matters, so why would I care about dlc when, when it comes down to it, its all for nothing?
 
At this point, Bioware would be crazy to not just pretend the "indoctrination" theory was the plan from the beginning, because at least theres something in that interpretation to think about.

In my eyes (and perhaps I'm also being indoctrinated) most of the "facts" people are using to back up the theory are signs of a rushed product. Thats all it looks like to me. Bioware claiming this was their original intention, be it the truth or otherwise, would allow them time to step away and come up with something a little more focused and polished- certainly a wise decision, though its clear that they'll never be able to all expectation.

A couple of loose thoughts to add on to the discussion over the ending:

- How cool would it have been if it turned out Shepard was actually a synthetic? This was a silly pet theory of mine, not one I expected to happen, but one that seemed appropriate given the nature of the game's ending. Think about it: TIM can't afford the loss of someone so vital to mankind's position, so he creates a synthetic version of Shepard that looks and acts identically to the original, so much so so that it even has itself fooled. Plus its more believable than them simply bringing charred remains (remember his brain, the core of one's personality, must have been completely destroyed) back to life.

This would give the ending scene with TIM a powerful twist ("You aren't even the real Shepard- I created you in order to further my own interests") and add a lot of weight to the game's attempt at making you contemplate the nature of organic and synthetic life. Also, it would be neat to find out the savior of organic life was actually a synthetic meant to replicate organic life- I'm sure the Reapers would get a kick out of that.


-Speaking of the Reapers, I'm fine with them being such big fans of Gurren Lagann, but it would have been nice if they did a little more convincing on their end (especially in the face of you negotiating a peace with synthetics...). Picture the same scene with the Catalyst, though this time around Shepard is basically lectured on how synthetic life has no limitations, that it has already seen and conquered the universe, and that organic life is/was only a stepping stone on the path to creating synthetic life, nothing more. Organics are kept around as a novelty, galaxies tended to and "weeded" like gardens.

Killing life to save life? Okay, sure, I can deal with that. I just imagine an AI of that magnitude would have a lot of time to come up with a really compelling argument to the first pathetic organic it meets. Maybe just throw out some statistics to back up their theory ("This is what has happened an untold billion number of times before your own cycle", etc) and make it seem like they really are doing organic life a service, since thats apparently how they see it.

(note: I fully expect, like Gurren Lagann, for their to be a "something" beyond the Reapers (as the Anti-Spiral were to the Spiral King) that will become much more interested in the galaxy in light of the Reaper's failure)

-Aside from the poor delivery, I think the ending leaves the Mass Effect universe in a very interesting place, and am fascinated by what will come out of the state Shepard has left the galaxy in now that they're pretty much stuck wherever they were at the time of SPACE MAGIC. I never needed a happy ending, just a satisfying one, so I'm at least interested in what they decide to do next.

Like I said before, they will never address the ending. What we will get are standalone pieces of DLC that have nothing to do with the ending.

There is no point in doing anything with the story. ME3 is the end of the trilogy and the end of pretty much the old Bioware.
 
At this point, Bioware would be crazy to not just pretend the "indoctrination" theory was the plan from the beginning, because at least theres something in that interpretation to think about.
To me the indoctrination theory is nothing but fan speculation, spearheaded by the fact that anything involving reapers can illustrate

That is one of my problems. You get much less dialogue from romanceable characters. Liara, Garrus, Ashley (presumptively Tali as well) run out of dialogue much more quickly, where I assume they would normally have some dialogue. Or maybe just because I got them earlier and spoke after every mission, maybe they ran out of non mission-specific dialogue sooner. Definitely seemed like less, and based on past games it would be true.

It just seems like an alternative, non-romance path dialogue would be a cheap way to bump up replayability.
It's really one of my grievances with this game. Kaiden didn't say anything to me after his lunch, Tali didn't say much to me after Rannoch (she got drunk, I wouldn't necessarily count that as a deep conversation), Vega didn't have anything to say to me except that he could join N7, etc.

Everyone besides Liara, Javik, and, sometimes, Garrus seemed like empty shells.

So, i've been wondering... all the rooms in the Normandy are actually being used, visited by the crew... but what about the old one where Thane used to be? Why do we still have access to it if no one ever goes there? I mean, they did shut down the room where Jacob was since its useless, so why not the one where Thane was? Future DLC character maybe?
Jack's room was empty, too.
 
So, i've been wondering... all the rooms in the Normandy are actually being used, visited by the crew... but what about the old one where Thane used to be? Why do we still have access to it if no one ever goes there? I mean, they did shut down the room where Jacob was since its useless, so why not the one where Thane was? Future DLC character maybe?

Probably, Javik takes grunts room. I did think it was open for Javik to go in and 'feel' Thane's stuff, like Javik would go around the ship 'feeling' the past crew and offering insight on them while Shep reminisces.
 
Jack's room was empty, too.


Javik popped in there one time. And like a tool I checked it after every mission just in case. That would have cut off a ton of time from my next playthrough. Except I'm not doing that playthrough anymore. Maybe in a year or so, when I can either reconcile myself to the ending, or just do a trilogy run and stop at the laser.
 
Warp -> Throw for armored/barrier units

Stasis -> Throw for everything else

Use Liara's singularity

Remember that biotic detonation damage is calculated by what rank the powers are in, not force or damage. So cooldown reductions and 'bonus power' perks (Stasis rank 5, 30% chance to not trigger a cd) are good.


I hit like 57 in the end, with my 30 import Shepard.

I did pull/throw with an occasional warp. Adepts are just boss.
 
Except for Kaidan. Sweet, sweet Kaidan.
I'm sure he "laws" you very much.

Javik popped in there one time. And like a tool I checked it after every mission just in case. That would have cut off a ton of time from my next playthrough. Except I'm not doing that playthrough anymore. Maybe in a year or so, when I can either reconcile myself to the ending, or just do a trilogy run and stop at the laser.
Wait for the Let's Play Mass Effect 1-3 thread in 2013!
 
That will give somebody time to professional edit my ending, so I can stop playing and just load up youtube to conclude the series. I guess that means I'll have to stick with Default Shep.
 
The ending was weird, got all Matrix on us. Whatever. I dont see how so many let a few minutes of post game content totally change your view of 30+ hours of actual game you played. ME3 was fantastic and everything up to the choice was stunning and awesome.

What everyone should really be mad about is the complete lack of a final boss fight. WTF.
 
Hey!

Hey you guys! Where THE FUCK was my girl Gianna Parasini? I just looked at the ME Wiki and it doesn't even seem like she's in the game at all! They seriously mentioned that bitch Rana Thanoptis in an e-mail and didn't even put the best side character in the series in ME3? This shit won't stand.
 
The ending was weird, got all Matrix on us. Whatever. I dont see how so many let a few minutes of post game content totally change your view of 30+ hours of actual game you played. ME3 was fantastic and everything up to the choice was stunning and awesome.

What everyone should really be mad about is the complete lack of a final boss fight. WTF.

Maurader.

Fucking.

Shields.
 
The ending was weird, got all Matrix on us. Whatever. I dont see how so many let a few minutes of post game content totally change your view of 30+ hours of actual game you played. ME3 was fantastic and everything up to the choice was stunning and awesome.

What everyone should really be mad about is the complete lack of a final boss fight. WTF.

Because story wise, that last half hour invalidates everything you've done across all 3 games
 
Because story wise, that last half hour invalidates everything you've done across all 3 games

You played it didnt you? Did the ending completely erase the memory of enjoying playing a game.

Plus the ending was not half an hour, it was like 10 minutes. And no it does no invalidate what you did, you get the answers to what is going on and you accomplish your goal even if it was not what you intended.
 
Hey!

Hey you guys! Where THE FUCK was my girl Gianna Parasini? I just looked at the ME Wiki and it doesn't even seem like she's in the game at all! They seriously mentioned that bitch Rana Thanoptis in an e-mail and didn't even put the best side character in the series in ME3? This shit won't stand.

Yeah she was missed...

Ha, this time I just told Chakwas to bugger off and invited Michel to join the Normandy.
 
You played it didnt you? Did the ending completely erase the memory of enjoying playing a game.

Plus the ending was not half an hour, it was like 10 minutes. And no it does no invalidate what you did, you get the answers to what is going on and you accomplish your goal even if it was not what you intended.

This happens with a few people. They come in, thinking there was nothing wrong with the ending.

Give it time.

Let it all sink in.

Think about it.

When you're ready, the torches and pitchforks are over there. --->
 
This happens with a few people. They come in, thinking there was nothing wrong with the ending.

Give it time.

Let it all sink in.

Think about it.

When you're ready, the torches and pitchforks are over there. --->


I did not like the ending. The ending and the game I played are two very different things. The game (45 hours for me) was fantastic, the 10 minute movie clip attached at the end sucked. Hmmm which one matters more...
 
I did not like the ending. The ending and the game I played are two very different things. The game (45 hours for me) was fantastic, the 10 minute movie clip attached at the end sucked. Hmmm which one matters more...

The journey. The ending was poor but whatever. Those last 10 minutes don't destroy the 100+ hours of fun I've had with this series.
 
I did not like the ending. The ending and the game I played are two very different things. The game (45 hours for me) was fantastic, the 10 minute movie clip attached at the end sucked. Hmmm which one matters more...

No, you said we get answers, that we accomplished our goals, and it wasn't what was expected.

The first two parts are wrong and the last part is the understatement of the century.

Just give it time. You'll get it eventually.
 
This happens with a few people. They come in, thinking there was nothing wrong with the ending.

Give it time.

Let it all sink in.

Think about it.

When you're ready, the torches and pitchforks are over there. --->
Seriously, I was going to ask a person in the controversy thread why they thought the ending was fine. They didn't say why. I'm genuinely curious.

It seems that most people who enter this thread are enraged and traumatized. There are a few people who think it's fine, and then they realize that it's not all well. But it's rare. They also don't tend to stick around.

My favorite case is the guy who has the horned cookie monster avatar.
 
No, you said we get answers, that we accomplished our goals, and it wasn't what was expected.

The first two parts are wrong and the last part is the understatement of the century.

Just give it time. You'll get it eventually.

this dude knows what the hell he's talking about. i've read a bunch of his posts in here and they have been ace. bravo sir.
 
No, you said we get answers, that we accomplished our goals, and it wasn't what was expected.

The first two parts are wrong and the last part is the understatement of the century.

Just give it time. You'll get it eventually.

Your goal in all three games is to stop the reapers, you stopped the reapers, kind of. Also we did learn what the reapers are and why they do the destruction thing.
 
You played it didnt you? Did the ending completely erase the memory of enjoying playing a game.

Plus the ending was not half an hour, it was like 10 minutes. And no it does no invalidate what you did, you get the answers to what is going on and you accomplish your goal even if it was not what you intended.

From a story perspective, what does I matter that I reunited the geth and quarians on rannoch? The quarians are trapped in orbit starving to death around earth? The krogans and turians have peace, bu again are largely trapped around earth. The ones who aren't are stuck on what's left of their planets unable to communicate with anyone or get anywhere without the mass relays. And that's only assuming that you ignore the plot detail that when a mass relay is destroyed, the resulting explosion can take out the system it's located in, essentially wiping out the entire galaxy.

Yes I enjoyed my time with the games, but a lot of my enjoyment came from the story and the choices I made, and I don't feel like I can go back and play a game that was all about my choices when it turns out none of my choices had any bearing at the end
 
Your goal in all three games is to stop the reapers, you stopped the reapers, kind of. Also we did learn what the reapers are and why they do the destruction thing.
This is how I personally feel. The goal has been reached.

However, BW purposefully threw a few monkey wrenches in just for the purpose of fan speculation. That's what bothers me the most. I don't mind speculation at all, but the way the end was devised specifically for that purpose, invalidates a lot of what a good* ending should be.

*Good not being happy, but properly well made.
 
Your goal in all three games is to stop the reapers, you stopped the reapers, kind of. Also we did learn what the reapers are and why they do the destruction thing.

Now think about how stopping the reapers didn't save anyone and how their reasons don't make sense.
 
No, you said we get answers, that we accomplished our goals, and it wasn't what was expected.

The first two parts are wrong and the last part is the understatement of the century.

Just give it time. You'll get it eventually.

this is actually pretty funny and accurate

dudes like eatchildren and heavy and stuff first came in and were like, calm down guys, its not that bad get over it

now heavy is begging bioware to continue the story of commander shepard and eat children has posted 208 times in this topic, finally discussing how truly shitty and awful the ending was

there is no need to try and be the bigger man here guys

just accept how shitty this garbage ending is and how shitty it feels that this garbage is the ending

and let it all out
 
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