Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Not just that, maybe she died during the end of ME3, or maybe you sexed her up, and lived and is with Joker and EDI on this new planet, or maybe she lived and is with Joker and Liara/Garrus/Vega, etc. loads of different things change at the end of the series based on if Ashley or Kaiden lived.
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You guys are arguing character progression and the choices regarding them as being the same to to the ending of the overall story arc of the trilogy. They're not.

The ME universe as we the player understand it is shattered by the 'choices' present in in ME3's end sequence. Even if your teammates somehow do survive in the mysterious new jungle world of speculation, how do you know they live for the next 10 minutes before getting eaten by a dinosaur or catch a virus and die?

Telling someone to imagine the ending isn't good story-telling for the end of a trilogy.
 
I realize this falls under "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!" but, I'd like to get some of you to weigh in on this.

My friend/podcast co-host finished up ME3 yesterday. He called me right away because I had told him how much I hated the ending I got (green, no shepard breath). He couldn't understand why I was under the impression everybody died.

I argued that The Arrival showed us what happens when you destroy a mass relay. He said "this didn't look like that, it was more of an implosion." He then went on to suggest that everyone is still alive and that they are all part-synthetic, part organic and that its not just Joker, EDI, and random team member/love interest that this applies to.

I said then why did Joker need to outrun the green explosion wave?

Like I said, I know this is just "speculation!" but I feel like the ending was pretty clear about implying that everyone died except Joker, EDI, and another team member. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, right? Isn't this the common opinion?
 
I don't think everybody died because I'm in the "relays exploded with flavoured space magic" camp.
 
Jackpot said:
I don't understand. ME2 DLC hammered into you that destroying a mass relay cripples its solar system. So we blew up every single mass relay and destroyed all the colonised worlds?
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Well not every colonized world has a mass relay, but yeah that's a lot of completely vaporized worlds, including the sol system, you know the one where everyone's at. Edit: given every other way in which the last minutes of this game disregard everything preceding it, EatChildren's "flavored space magic" camp most likely have the right of it at least where Biowares "intent" is concerned.

Everyone arguing the absurdity that the things that happened throughout the game somehow count as part of the ending are guilty of the same fundamental misunderstanding that led Bioware to piss away all the build up throughout 3 games in 10 minutes; all these decisions we made about who lives and who dies, what alliances we broker, and so on throughout the series were the choices. The end of the game was the part where we were finally supposed to get the consequences. But there weren't any. There was just another empty choice, this one completely divorced from the 100 hours of context that preceded it. But hey, if you assembled enough fleets, and ran enough errands, and played some multiplayer and kicked cerberus off that one little part of Noveria 4 or 5 times, you might get to see Shepard's mangled body gasp or something. WOAH MAN!
 
Question guys: I finally finished the game for real (as opposed to just watched the ending on Youtube) and I've seen people mentioning that the two people they bring with them to fight the final battle are dead after the beam attack. The thing is, I brought Javik and Vega with me under the assumption that we may not make it and since I have less attachment to them, I won't mind so much if they die along with Shepard. But when the beam attack happened, I don't actually see either of their body. I mean, there's a soldier who looked like Vega but he's definitely not Vega (his body is thinner and hair is flat no faux-hawk etc) and I can't find Javik's body anywhere.

So when the ending rolled out, I saw Joker, Kaidan, and Javik came out of the Normandy in the land of the lost. So my question is, are you guys sure that your two companions really dead in the beam attack? Is it possible that they actually survive the beam attack and Joker then pick them up after they all thought that Shepard had perished in the attack? They didn't know he survived too since he's already gone into the Citadel. Thus explaining why they left Earth pronto after the beam attack and why one of the 2 people you brought with you actually showed up in the land of the lost ending. Remember that there's quite a time between Shepard entering Citadel and the relay exploding.
 
Moofers said:
I realize this falls under "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!" but, I'd like to get some of you to weigh in on this.

My friend/podcast co-host finished up ME3 yesterday. He called me right away because I had told him how much I hated the ending I got (green, no shepard breath). He couldn't understand why I was under the impression everybody died.

I argued that The Arrival showed us what happens when you destroy a mass relay. He said "this didn't look like that, it was more of an implosion." He then went on to suggest that everyone is still alive and that they are all part-synthetic, part organic and that its not just Joker, EDI, and random team member/love interest that this applies to.

I said then why did Joker need to outrun the green explosion wave?

Like I said, I know this is just "speculation!" but I feel like the ending was pretty clear about implying that everyone died except Joker, EDI, and another team member. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, right? Isn't this the common opinion?
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Your friend is one of many people trying to overthink a shitty ending. Oh The Harbinger! Shepard is actually been dead all along! The Biodrones are at it A-G-A-I-N. What has it been like the 109th time this month only?
 
Guise! We're not even safe in Speculationland!

south_park_imaginationland_show_image_.jpg
 
Replicant said:
Question guys: I finally finished the game for real (as opposed to just watched the ending on Youtube) and I've seen people mentioning that the two people they bring with them to fight the final battle are dead after the beam attack. The thing is, I brought Javik and Vega with me under the assumption that we may not make it and since I have less attachment to them, I won't mind so much if they die along with Shepard. But when the beam attack happened, I don't actually see either of their body. I mean, there's a soldier who looked like Vega but he's definitely not Vega (his body is thinner and hair is flat no faux-hawk etc) and I can't find Javik's body anywhere.

So when the ending rolled out, I saw Joker, Kaidan, and Javik came out of the Normandy in the land of the lost. So my question is, are you guys sure that your two companions really dead in the beam attack? Is it possible that they actually survive the beam attack and Joker then pick them up after they all thought that Shepard had perished in the attack? They didn't know he survived too since he's already gone into the Citadel. Thus explaining why they left Earth pronto after the beam attack and why one of the 2 people you brought with you actually showed up in the land of the lost ending. Remember that there's quite a time between Shepard entering Citadel and the relay exploding.
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EMS-related. Funny, that's one of the few things in that chapter that should literally have nothing to do with EMS.
 
Moofers said:
I realize this falls under "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!" but, I'd like to get some of you to weigh in on this.

My friend/podcast co-host finished up ME3 yesterday. He called me right away because I had told him how much I hated the ending I got (green, no shepard breath). He couldn't understand why I was under the impression everybody died.

I argued that The Arrival showed us what happens when you destroy a mass relay. He said "this didn't look like that, it was more of an implosion." He then went on to suggest that everyone is still alive and that they are all part-synthetic, part organic and that its not just Joker, EDI, and random team member/love interest that this applies to.

I said then why did Joker need to outrun the green explosion wave?

Like I said, I know this is just "speculation!" but I feel like the ending was pretty clear about implying that everyone died except Joker, EDI, and another team member. I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, right? Isn't this the common opinion?
Click to expand...


I've always been on the other side of the argument regarding The Arrival DLC. The rocked crashed into it and the energy wasn't going to go anywhere, thus an explosion. In the ME3 endings, the energy was being used to perform space magic, no explosion.
 
Replicant said:
Question guys: I finally finished the game for real (as opposed to just watched the ending on Youtube) and I've seen people mentioning that the two people they bring with them to fight the final battle are dead after the beam attack. The thing is, I brought Javik and Vega with me under the assumption that we may not make it and since I have less attachment to them, I won't mind so much if they die along with Shepard. But when the beam attack happened, I don't actually see either of their body. I mean, there's a soldier who looked like Vega but he's definitely not Vega (his body is thinner and hair is flat no faux-hawk etc) and I can't find Javik's body anywhere.

So when the ending rolled out, I saw Joker, Kaidan, and Javik came out of the Normandy in the land of the lost. So my question is, are you guys sure that your two companions really dead in the beam attack? Is it possible that they actually survive the beam attack and Joker then pick them up after they all thought that Shepard has perished in the attack? Thus explaining why they left Earth pronto after the beam attack and why one of the 2 people you brought with you actually showed up in the land of the lost ending.
Click to expand...


A deleted scene has them dying.
 
Rapstah said:
EMS-related. Funny, that's one of the few things in that chapter that should literally have nothing to do with EMS.
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I see. I did have around 6980 something EMS with 100% readiness rating but I didn't think that'd factor into how the crews survived.

K.Sabot said:
A deleted scene has them dying.
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So in the game they actually survived the attack? In general, I mean. Not just my game. Everyone else's game too?
 
Replicant said:
Question guys: I finally finished the game for real (as opposed to just watched the ending on Youtube) and I've seen people mentioning that the two people they bring with them to fight the final battle are dead after the beam attack. The thing is, I brought Javik and Vega with me under the assumption that we may not make it and since I have less attachment to them, I won't mind so much if they die along with Shepard. But when the beam attack happened, I don't actually see either of their body. I mean, there's a soldier who looked like Vega but he's definitely not Vega (his body is thinner and hair is flat no faux-hawk etc) and I can't find Javik's body anywhere.

So when the ending rolled out, I saw Joker, Kaidan, and Javik came out of the Normandy in the land of the lost. So my question is, are you guys sure that your two companions really dead in the beam attack? Is it possible that they actually survive the beam attack and Joker then pick them up after they all thought that Shepard had perished in the attack? They didn't know he survived too since he's already gone into the Citadel. Thus explaining why they left Earth pronto after the beam attack and why one of the 2 people you brought with you actually showed up in the land of the lost ending. Remember that there's quite a time between Shepard entering Citadel and the relay exploding.
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I brought Kaidan and he was in the normandy with joker and edi.

It's always Joker, your life interest, and possibly edi depending on your choice.
 
Achtius said:
I brought Kaidan and he was in the normandy with joker and edi.
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Yes, but my question was: did you see Kaidan as one of the dead bodies littered after the beam attack? I didn't see Vega or Javik's body there as the earth team told everyone to pull back.

Achtius said:
It's always Joker, your life interest, and possibly edi depending on your choice.
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I think it's more like Joker, your LI, and one of the guys you pick to accompany you on the last mission. This if you choose the "Destroy" ending though.
 
Replicant said:
Question guys: I finally finished the game for real (as opposed to just watched the ending on Youtube) and I've seen people mentioning that the two people they bring with them to fight the final battle are dead after the beam attack. The thing is, I brought Javik and Vega with me under the assumption that we may not make it and since I have less attachment to them, I won't mind so much if they die along with Shepard. But when the beam attack happened, I don't actually see either of their body. I mean, there's a soldier who looked like Vega but he's definitely not Vega (his body is thinner and hair is flat no faux-hawk etc) and I can't find Javik's body anywhere.

So when the ending rolled out, I saw Joker, Kaidan, and Javik came out of the Normandy in the land of the lost. So my question is, are you guys sure that your two companions really dead in the beam attack? Is it possible that they actually survive the beam attack and Joker then pick them up after they all thought that Shepard had perished in the attack? They didn't know he survived too since he's already gone into the Citadel. Thus explaining why they left Earth pronto after the beam attack and why one of the 2 people you brought with you actually showed up in the land of the lost ending. Remember that there's quite a time between Shepard entering Citadel and the relay exploding.
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1) its not explained how they even got in the Normandy.but imagination is free however.
i say because they got hit while in the mass relay they fell in a planet far from earth,cant be reached by anyone now and velociraptors ate them..........

2)good description for the planet....

423985_10151400269120527_630770526_23501861_2023475268_n.jpg
 
Replicant said:
Yes, but my question was: did you see Kaidan as one of the dead bodies littered after the beam attack? I didn't see Vega or Javik's body there as the earth team told everyone to pull back.
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Well he can't be dead if he is on the normandy...
unless Kaidan is space jesus

but no i didnt' see any body i recognized.
 
Replicant said:
Yes, but my question was: did you see Kaidan as one of the dead bodies littered after the beam attack? I didn't see Vega or Javik's body there as the earth team told everyone to pull back.
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If you see your aquad memebrs as dead bodies they supposedly can not appear after the ending, no. It's not very hard to get above the threshold where they survive though, so most people don't get it.
 
Achtius said:
Well he can't be dead if he is on the normandy...
unless Kaidan is space jesus

but no i didnt' see any body i recognized.
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I'm just confused because prior to reaching that stage, I read how everyone said that their 2 companions died but then they saw them on the Normandy, implying that there's an inconsistency in the plot. But I didn't see either of my companion die so I wonder what's true and what's not. I think it makes sense then that they show up in the Normandy later on if they survived the beam attack.

Rapstah said:
If you see your aquad memebrs as dead bodies they supposedly can not appear after the ending, no. It's not very hard to get above the threshold where they survive though, so most people don't get it.
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I see. That's pretty much clears up the situation. So it really does depend on the EMS.
 
Replicant said:
I see. I did have around 6980 something EMS with 100% readiness rating but I didn't think that'd factor into how the crews survived.



So in the game they actually survived the attack? In general, I mean. Not just my game. Everyone else's game too?
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As far as I know if you EMS is low there is the chance of the squad mates you took at the end being dead on the floor as you walk towards the beam, pretty sure I saw someone mention that said dead squad mate was also on the ship at the end too.

The problem people have is that they appear on the Normandy, no one seems to care what happened to Shepard, these team mates that have gone through thick and thin for you just disappear at that final stage.
 
Replicant said:
I'm just confused because prior to reaching that stage, I read how everyone said that their 2 companions died but then they saw them on the Normandy, implying that there's an inconsistency in the plot. But I didn't see either of my companion die so I wonder what's true and what's not. I think it makes sense then that they show up in the Normandy later on if they survived the beam attack.
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There is a scene where they died, but it was cutted; so who knows if bioware wanted them dead.


CorrisD said:
As far as I know if you EMS is low there is the chance of the squad mates you took at the end being dead on the floor as you walk towards the beam, pretty sure I saw someone mention that said dead squad mate was also on the ship at the end too.
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:O
 
OK, completely unrelated to anything, but when they come out of the ship and look at the sky, and see the two planets or moon in crescent phase, how is the littler one getting sunlight? The bigger object is directly in front of it, and the sun is just to the right of the bigger body. The littler one should be in the big one's shadow.

edit: I guess it depends on the distances. Still. looks a little weird.
 
StuBurns said:
I don't know why this is a point of contention at all. The people who know nothing about Mass Relays believe when you throw a moon at it, there is a huge explosion. The people who made them are very likely to be able to destroy them without supernova emulating effects. The whole 'space magic' argument is pretty stupid I think. That aspect is totally logical and fine.
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And who made the Mass Relays? It wasn't the Protheans and it is implied the reapers built them, and most species didn't understand the technology behind them.

The protheans and the species that came before them came up with the crucible, theres nothing that implies that the same people who came up with that weapon design are the ones who created/understood the relays.

The whole thing is a mess. The Relays are detonated but somehow the explosion is meant to be "special"?

W/E idg any of it
 
CorrisD said:
As far as I know if you EMS is low there is the chance of the squad mates you took at the end being dead on the floor as you walk towards the beam, pretty sure I saw someone mention that said dead squad mate was also on the ship at the end too.
Click to expand...

Achtius said:
There is a scene where they died, but it was cutted; so who knows if bioware wanted them dead.
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Them surviving the beam attack definitely clears up the plot a bit more. At least the ending wasn't as out of nowhere as I originally thought.

Achtius said:
:O
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Space Jesus raised them to life using his last bit of power.

On that note, I take it that the reason Shepard was granted the meeting with SpaceKid was because he's partly synthetic? Validating the seal that brought him to the RGB choices.

Rapstah said:
No, it's Joker, Anderson and love interest.
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This is true.
 
Just finished again as Insanity/Renegade/Engineer, Ashley LI. Insanity was not bad at all really, my Engineer Shep dominated w/Combat Drones and fire-breathing Turrets used properly plus Javik and either sniper Ashley or tank James all the way through (except for Liara/Javik on Thessia).

Took the Control ending this time, which did give a different feel beyond just being "BGR", disintegrating at a pair of electrified joysticks also added an extra bit of finality... And Ashley showed up in both his memory at the end instead of Liara and as first off the ship with Joker, so that was consistent. I also noticed Javik and James simply stand there staying behind as others have noted during that last run to the beam, apparently as we suspect waiting to be picked up and sure enough there was Javik coming as third out of the Normandy.

Was actually getting a bit bored with the straightforward mission structure and simple "eavesdropper" side missions this second time around. Also what was there for Ashley as LI was substantive and felt authentic but happens between a too-long stretch of minimal contact. Had to just assume there for a while that I didn't end it accidentally even after she came back on board.

Will return to my primary Paragon/Tali file, get from lvl 57 to 60 and then let the game sit for a bit.
 
Moofers said:
I said then why did Joker need to outrun the green explosion wave?
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Yeah... either the Mass Relays wiped the systems (which given the Shepard lives easter egg doesn't appear to be the case... space magic and all), or Joker just stranded the Normandy crew somewhere for nothing. As always... great ending.

But I suppose he did so he could be stuck in a world somewhere with EDI and the rest of women, including your LI. Nothing like literally be one of the last men on the world to improve your chances.
 
Rapstah said:
No, it's Joker, Anderson and love interest. No idea who it is if you have no love interest... the Virmire survivor probably?
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I got Joker, Anderson and Liara.
Liara wasn't my love interest, and I haven't seen any endings that didn't have these three.
 
Dacon said:
And who made the Mass Relays? It wasn't the Protheans and it is implied the reapers built them, and most species didn't understand the technology behind them.

The protheans and the species that came before them came up with the crucible, theres nothing that implies that the same people who came up with that weapon design are the ones who created/understood the relays.

The whole thing is a mess. The Relays are detonated but somehow the explosion is meant to be "special"?

W/E idg any of it
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Star Child built them presumably, along with practically everything else of importance. Not that it's really relevant. The point is a life form which is clearly superior could very easily know of a different way of deposing of them.
 
CorrisD said:
I got Joker, Anderson and Liara.
Liara wasn't my love interest, and I haven't seen any endings that didn't have these three.
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I got Kaidan both times I finished the game. Did you have several love interests over the course of the games? I only had Kaidan.

I feel so fucking sad writing this post.
 
Jackpot said:
No, it's Liara even though I never touched her in all 3 games.
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No, I got Kaidan. You must either once flirted with her or she's the default one if you have no LI at the end of 3. Or maybe if your love interest was one of the ME2 characters (Miranda, Jack, Kelly)?
 
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