Thanks for that. Anyone else's opinions on or experiences with these cars is welcome.
The Automotive Discussion Thread
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Thanks for that. Anyone else's opinions on or experiences with these cars is welcome.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
All Maximas until 2003 were built in Japan.
Everything after that were built in TN.
The only 2 cars Nissan still builds in Japan are the 370Z and GT-R. Infiniti's are built in Japan, as well. Though I believe their ugly new crossover van the JX is being built in the US.
And for whatever it's worth, the new Maximas look nice, but drive like wet noodly shit. If you're going to spend that kind of coin for a lame duck FWD car with a big motor and a terrible transmission and suspension, get yourself a more proper car like the Volvo S60, Infiniti G37x, Acura TL AWD or TSX V6, Hyundai Genesis 3.8 AWD, etc.
Everything after that were built in TN.
The only 2 cars Nissan still builds in Japan are the 370Z and GT-R. Infiniti's are built in Japan, as well. Though I believe their ugly new crossover van the JX is being built in the US.
And for whatever it's worth, the new Maximas look nice, but drive like wet noodly shit. If you're going to spend that kind of coin for a lame duck FWD car with a big motor and a terrible transmission and suspension, get yourself a more proper car like the Volvo S60, Infiniti G37x, Acura TL AWD or TSX V6, Hyundai Genesis 3.8 AWD, etc.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Whelp that didn't take long.
Subaru says BRZ will be similarly priced to the FR-S.
Subaru says a turbocharged version is coming but are not ready to announce when its coming out.
Funny enough, I think the Japanese automakers are taking a huge hit since the yen has gotten stronger than the dollar for a couple years.
Subaru says BRZ will be similarly priced to the FR-S.
Subaru says a turbocharged version is coming but are not ready to announce when its coming out.
Funny enough, I think the Japanese automakers are taking a huge hit since the yen has gotten stronger than the dollar for a couple years.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
It seems like the STi designation has been dropped in favor of an actual STi version of the car coming soon. I'm glad Subaru wasn't stupid enough to release just this plain Jane BRZ and call it a day, it would've been suicide. The turbo car with 280HP or 300HP will be just bonkers and fun.
Take it there is no real guesstimate as to when a turbo version would come out? Would probably be about at the top of my list.
shinshoryuken
Member
Opps sorry, you weren't the one who was arguing with me about the NSX/GT-R wrong, I reformat my post to correct that.
but to answer your question..
Car is amazingly fast...there is a lil bit of similarity in feel with the 370z. The GT-R feel more planted, but the 370z feels more nimble. the DCT feels like the 370z when it downshift, nicely rev matched. You can drive the GT-R to feel like a G37 sedan, very subtle and tame, but once you put more throttle it becomes crazy. and soo on...
I think i have less than 15k miles.
pretty reliable so far, but it will get expensive when i get tires and do transmission oil.
trip to the dealer is only for the scheduled maintenance.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Of course it's fun smashing the throttle and flying off into space. It's just a different kind of fun than carving through a mountain road and actually takes away some of the fun (for many people, at least) once your car is too powerful for the road, i.e. it's a lot more fun punching the throttle in between each turn and really pushing the car instead of backing off the throttle because you're suddenly going way too fast to retain any semblance of safety.
The 924 wouldn't break 70mph on this one road I would run around on all the time--the 911 had no problems punching well past 100. Once your car has a certain amount of power you can only ever really let it all out on a track.
Hey guys! First post in this thread and that's because I've only recently started getting into my car.
I drive a 1992 Civic Si hatchback, 208k miles, and manual transmission. Trying to work on my whole technique and just get some more advanced concepts down. I, and I say this with humility
, am a very good everyday driver. I'm not really satisfied with that though, I want to push my car to the limits and get as much out of it as I can before it dies. The only problem is I'm totally scatter brained right now and don't even know where to start, there is so much damn info out there on these cars. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would love you forever 
Also if anyone in here is from Bay-Area Gaf could you recommend some beginner friendly tracks or courses in the area?
I drive a 1992 Civic Si hatchback, 208k miles, and manual transmission. Trying to work on my whole technique and just get some more advanced concepts down. I, and I say this with humility
, am a very good everyday driver. I'm not really satisfied with that though, I want to push my car to the limits and get as much out of it as I can before it dies. The only problem is I'm totally scatter brained right now and don't even know where to start, there is so much damn info out there on these cars. If anyone could point me in the right direction I would love you forever Also if anyone in here is from Bay-Area Gaf could you recommend some beginner friendly tracks or courses in the area?
Local auto photographer pics and writeup on the BRZ.
http://www.nwmotiv.com/cars/subaru-brz-first-impressions/
http://www.nwmotiv.com/cars/subaru-brz-first-impressions/
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Both the handling and power arguments that have been made since the 1990s are pointless. 95% of the people buying either type of car will never do anything race-like the entire time they own the car. Rather, they will just argue on forums how they could if they wanted to. Handling Guy is ever so slightly sillier because he generally has no clue how to handle the car to whatever it's capabilities are, particularly not to beat anyone in a race.
I think it needs to be said that this isn't really a "handling" versus "power" argument, as much as the BRZ/FR-S fans try to make it out to be.
It's an argument about wanting the best of both worlds, especially at $25k. Neither of those performance aspects are mutually exclusive. To pretend otherwise is silly. Ideally, I want a car that can do both.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would say I lean towards wanting more power rather than better handling, mostly on the grounds that even when spirited driving is possible, the type of driving where great handling matters is usually an arrestable offense, whereas accelerating really fast is a ticket at best.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Not gonna happen unless you get a used Evo X or 370z, if we're talking newer cars.
shinshoryuken
Member
Hey guys! First post in this thread and that's because I've only recently started getting into my car.
I drive a 1992 Civic Si hatchback, 208k miles, and manual transmission. Trying to work on my whole technique and just get some more advanced concepts down. I, and I say this with humility
Also if anyone in here is from Bay-Area Gaf could you recommend some beginner friendly tracks or courses in the area?
I suggest go to honda-tech.com
alot of down to earth people that can help with your honda stuff.
My car has been a huge pain in the ass lately, over the past 6 months I've done a lot to my car.
Bigger turbo, injectors, up pipe, downpipe, etc.
Since then I've had a lot of problems. The car runs great, fantastic even, but I keep having little issues with it.
My radiator hoses have all shit out on me, back to back weeks. My 02 sensor just decided to stop working, which in turn made my car run extremely rich and destroyed my spark plugs. My air conditioner lines are leaking, and the coup de grace is my up pipe is now leaking where it connects to the turbo. I'm getting two leaks from it, a vacuum leak from my wastegate and a exhaust leak causing me to throw a misfire code. My car is notorious for misfire codes though, especially on cylinder 4.
Everything has been replaced except my gasket for the turbo. I'm in contact with the company at they are going to send me a replacement for free, thankfully.
I'm just torn on whether or not to sell the car, I've only had it three years and I still love it. I just can't afford continuous maintenance like this. I know it's my fault for modding the car...
Here's the car;
I don't know what to do...
Bigger turbo, injectors, up pipe, downpipe, etc.
Since then I've had a lot of problems. The car runs great, fantastic even, but I keep having little issues with it.
My radiator hoses have all shit out on me, back to back weeks. My 02 sensor just decided to stop working, which in turn made my car run extremely rich and destroyed my spark plugs. My air conditioner lines are leaking, and the coup de grace is my up pipe is now leaking where it connects to the turbo. I'm getting two leaks from it, a vacuum leak from my wastegate and a exhaust leak causing me to throw a misfire code. My car is notorious for misfire codes though, especially on cylinder 4.
Everything has been replaced except my gasket for the turbo. I'm in contact with the company at they are going to send me a replacement for free, thankfully.
I'm just torn on whether or not to sell the car, I've only had it three years and I still love it. I just can't afford continuous maintenance like this. I know it's my fault for modding the car...
Here's the car;
I don't know what to do...
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Honda-Tech is not always the place to go, there are tons of knuckleheads and assholes on there. It's very hit or miss.
I suggest something like NWP4Life or ClubCivic, Civicforums etc.
Will take a look at all these places! Thanks guys!
I'm excited to be stepping into this more, I really do love driving and want to become great at it.
Giant Robot
Member
^^^ in addition to the local forums posted above, you can look into NASA High Performance Driving Events (HPDE) events.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/
There's usually events at Infineon (Sonoma), Thunderhill (Willows), Buttonwillow (Buttonwillow). It's not walking distance, but not too bad if you're serious about learning.
Also try and find autocross events. Not sure if theres NASA events at Marina Airport anymore, but they used to do it monthly. Sometimes they'll have volunteer instructors there.
http://www.sfrscca.org/index.php
"Duel at De Anza" autocross is coming up too (at De Anza College):
http://www.deanza.edu/eventscalendar/view_entry.php?id=144&date=20120518
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/
There's usually events at Infineon (Sonoma), Thunderhill (Willows), Buttonwillow (Buttonwillow). It's not walking distance, but not too bad if you're serious about learning.
Also try and find autocross events. Not sure if theres NASA events at Marina Airport anymore, but they used to do it monthly. Sometimes they'll have volunteer instructors there.
http://www.sfrscca.org/index.php
"Duel at De Anza" autocross is coming up too (at De Anza College):
http://www.deanza.edu/eventscalendar/view_entry.php?id=144&date=20120518
Yeah, one of my friends was telling me about autocross and that it's a good place to learn. He drives an '85 MR2 and says that he has learned a lot at autocross events.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
Autocross is the way to go. It's much safer/less intense than track, and teaches you car control at low speeds. Do a couple of those events, they're ridiculously fun.
Awesome! Thanks for the info.
I think I'll sign up for this, gives me some time to practice too!
Now I just need to learn how to tune my baby right before the date gets here
shinshoryuken
Member
In my opinion. Unless you really really love the car, I would sell it. There seem to be certain cars that no matter what you do to it, there will always be issues. Maybe your car is one of those cars...
Some of your issues are easy enough fix though. Did you install the mods yourself? if a shop did, is the shop reliable? Is the car tuned?
Giant Robot
Member
Awesome! Thanks for the info.
I think I'll sign up for this, gives me some time to practice too!
Now I just need to learn how to tune my baby right before the date gets here
at your level, a good set of brake pads and tires is all that is necessary for Auto-X
Modding can be a frustrating experience at times. Did you do all the work yourself? I do most of the work on my car but I take it in every 30k or so just in case there's something I am missing. That's obviously more money that what you've spent already but just an idea.
Also, for shame! Masking your Torques with Subaru center caps. Good day sir, I said good day!
I just replaced my front brake pads(had to replace a caliper because of a stripped screw as well -_-) so I just have to do that backs now. Need to bleed my brakes too.
I got new tires a couple months ago, Barum Bravuris 2's. Should be good enough?
If it's your first autoX, don't worry about setup, tires, high performance brake pads, etc. Just make sure everything you have on the car now is in good condition. The only thing that an autox novice will need to gain speed is seat time. Car follows hands, hands follow eyes. Backside the cones.
e*
Couple more suggestions if it's your first time:
pay online in advance if possible, usually saves $5 or so
get all the non-essential stuff out of your car before leaving home (saves time when you get there)
Arrive early
Get in line early to check in, get a course map
after check in immediately get your car over to tech inspection
walk the course
walk it again
if you're there early enough you should be able to walk it at least once, maybe twice prior to the novice walk
walk along during the novice walk (this is where an advanced driver will point out things novices wouldn't have noticed, e.g. the line to take, brake points, safety parts to notice, etc)
study the course map
ask questions if you have them, autox-ers are a friendly bunch, just say "Hi I'm a novice and I had a question about..." They will be more than happy to help you.
Thanks so much for the advice! It's two months away but I'm nervous! Excited as fuck though.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/2013/2013-subaru-brz-full-test-and-video.html
Acceleration, 0-30 mph (sec.) 2.7
0-45 mph (sec.) 4.8
0-60 mph (sec.) 7.3
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 7.0
0-75 mph (sec.) 10.4
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 15.3 @ 92.1
0-30 mph, trac ON (sec.) 3.0
0-45 mph, trac ON (sec.) 5.2
0-60 mph, trac ON (sec.) 8.0
0-60, trac ON with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 7.7
0-75 mph, trac ON (sec.) 11.1
1/4-mile, trac ON (sec. @ mph) 15.7 @ 90.5
Braking, 30-0 mph (ft.) 28
60-0 mph (ft.) 114
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 69.1
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 66.6
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.92
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.88
Sound level @ idle (dB) 44.2
@ Full throttle (dB) 81.6
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 69.0
Engine speed @ 70 mph (rpm) 3,050
I will give this car the benefit of the doubt, it can do a 0-60 in 6.9. I'll count that 2nd gear redline of 59.2MPH as 60MPH. And that'll dip the car into the high-hiiiigh 14s in the 1/4. But again, for what? A car that stops worse than a base 370Z? A car that has a less refined interior? A car that is 2 seconds slower to 60 and through the 1/4? 15MPH slower through the 1/4? A car that has less grip/smaller contact patch?
Would I really walk into a dealership with all of those sacrifices in mind...to save $3K? Fuck no. What's worse is that a lot of "enthusiasts" are going to buy this car and spend money on upgrading the brakes, adding chunkier tires to it, possibly even going to 18s, possibly then looking for power bolt-ons, etc. They'll end up spending those $3-5K that they wanted to save over the 370Z and Mustang on things that won't improve the car much at all...at the end of the day it'll stay a slow boxer-4.
And the worst part? You could've bought a Genesis 2.0T with 270HP for LESS than the BRZ. And at that point, you'll just want to punch yourself in the nuts.
Acceleration, 0-30 mph (sec.) 2.7
0-45 mph (sec.) 4.8
0-60 mph (sec.) 7.3
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 7.0
0-75 mph (sec.) 10.4
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 15.3 @ 92.1
0-30 mph, trac ON (sec.) 3.0
0-45 mph, trac ON (sec.) 5.2
0-60 mph, trac ON (sec.) 8.0
0-60, trac ON with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 7.7
0-75 mph, trac ON (sec.) 11.1
1/4-mile, trac ON (sec. @ mph) 15.7 @ 90.5
Braking, 30-0 mph (ft.) 28
60-0 mph (ft.) 114
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 69.1
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 66.6
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.92
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) ESC ON 0.88
Sound level @ idle (dB) 44.2
@ Full throttle (dB) 81.6
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 69.0
Engine speed @ 70 mph (rpm) 3,050
I will give this car the benefit of the doubt, it can do a 0-60 in 6.9. I'll count that 2nd gear redline of 59.2MPH as 60MPH. And that'll dip the car into the high-hiiiigh 14s in the 1/4. But again, for what? A car that stops worse than a base 370Z? A car that has a less refined interior? A car that is 2 seconds slower to 60 and through the 1/4? 15MPH slower through the 1/4? A car that has less grip/smaller contact patch?
Would I really walk into a dealership with all of those sacrifices in mind...to save $3K? Fuck no. What's worse is that a lot of "enthusiasts" are going to buy this car and spend money on upgrading the brakes, adding chunkier tires to it, possibly even going to 18s, possibly then looking for power bolt-ons, etc. They'll end up spending those $3-5K that they wanted to save over the 370Z and Mustang on things that won't improve the car much at all...at the end of the day it'll stay a slow boxer-4.
And the worst part? You could've bought a Genesis 2.0T with 270HP for LESS than the BRZ. And at that point, you'll just want to punch yourself in the nuts.
I could be wrong, but I remember thinking the base BRZ came pretty well equipped, so there is that. You might have to spend more on the 370Z to match content. That is assuming you want all that crap of course. Another thing, the BRZ has (for now) the benefit that there is only one engine. Whereas with the Mustang or Camaro, if you bought the V6, you'd be wishing you had the V8. The Hyundai Genesis definitely presents a tough argument though. Although there is another engine option, there isn't quite the same stigma there.
One odd thing that does stick out to me:
Seriously? At 70mph, my Malibu's 169hp/160lb-ft engine is only doing around 2000 rpm.
I see your point, but I bet the miata sales aren't that bad compared to non-fleet V6 mustang convertible sales. Some people don't mind paying a premium for lower weight and better handling feel and a better sorted out car. However the handling difference between the BRZ and the 370Z is MUCH LESS than between a mustang convertible and a miata, so you may have a point there.
Adding a turbo and beefing up the parts of the car could not have cost more than $2k and 100 lbs, which would be a smarter choice IMHO.
shinshoryuken
Member
wow..the spec is bleh for $25k......and I bet there will be dealer mark up on top of that.
and adding aftermarket turbo and beefing up the parts will cost way more than $2k probably at least $6k...and I think a stock 370z will still perform better.
I meant the cost for Subaru/Toyota to add it, not aftermarket.
I don't think a 370Z will be as fun to drive as a turbo BRZ either.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Aggressive gearing with a 4.1FD rear. I can't imagine the appalling amounts of drone this thing will make with virtually any exhaust, revving as high as it does on the highway. Boxers already sound like shit to begin with, worst of all this is a 4-banger...I've never once heard an STi with an exhaust that didn't sound downright awful at every speed. And because the level of refinement is so low, there will simply be nothing but cabin drone.
shinshoryuken
Member
Yeah I am giving the BRZ the benefit of the doubt, but the 370z is pretty dayam fun to drive though...and its pretty fast...
Are you at least going to drive one?
MT was able to get 6.4s to 60 with 5500 rpm clutch drop, yeah not ever going to be doing that.
I have a feeling this car would make a much better DD than a 370z for me and being able to put an extra person behind a passenger would be useful. Suspension will probably be softer and road noise will be more subdued. Mine would rarely if ever be tracked, but I may do a couple of AutoXs to explore the limits. With how low you sit on the ground and the extra sense of speed it will feel plenty quick just like my 944s did.
The turbo is probably going to be 31 or 32k and still be slower than a 370z. If they call it a full blown STI i'm guessing 33-34k.
LowEndTorque
Member
That's around the base price of an Evo, no?
Giant Robot
Member
be careful of those. Set aside $15k for oh shit money or pay $15k upfront for a decent E34 M5. I recently sold my E34 M5. Coincidentally I'm looking hardcore for an S2000.
Oh yeah, I know. I know I know I know....but it only has 136k miles... GAH
Any specifics you've found in looking at S2000s? What to look for? What's a good price point for say an 04?
Could anyone tell me why a used Mazda RX-8 are cheaper than a used Honda Civic these days? I am guessing fuel economy and high insurance costs.
I am trying to buy a used car for under $15000 but want something a bit more interesting than a Honda or a Corolla, I came across a 2005 G35 but apparently the insurance for that is insane in Canada and the fuel is expensive as well, I am guessing thats the same for an RX-8 as well, hence why they are cheaper.
I am using this site to compare fuel mileage and all that http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
Also looked at the 2005 and 2006 Acura TL, but that looked like it had poor fuel mileage as well.
Any other suggestionsÉ
I am trying to buy a used car for under $15000 but want something a bit more interesting than a Honda or a Corolla, I came across a 2005 G35 but apparently the insurance for that is insane in Canada and the fuel is expensive as well, I am guessing thats the same for an RX-8 as well, hence why they are cheaper.
I am using this site to compare fuel mileage and all that http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
Also looked at the 2005 and 2006 Acura TL, but that looked like it had poor fuel mileage as well.
Any other suggestionsÉ
That was exactly why my friend guy rid of his. He was super excited about it, but had problems with it right away (new car too) and it just drank gas. He had it less than a year.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
I love the RX8 but yeah, if you are worried about fuel, not exactly the car to buy. You can get a nice Mazda 3 for that price or if you want something a little different, Pontiac GTO.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
RX8 is a huge pieceof shit thanks to the engine.
2005-2006 Acura TL's have stellar gas mileage. I have an 05 TL and get 21-23 mpg city and 31-33 mpg highway. My avg combined mpg is 27.
BoobPhysics101
Banned
You should probably ask me about S2000's. I'm GAF's self-proclaimed expert. lol
For an 04, you'll pay around $13-16k. You want it as stock as possible. Any mileage is ok. NEVER BUY SALVAGED TITLE. Any other questions, just hit me up!
Giant Robot
Member
I sold my E34 M5 with 122k miles. Loved the car, but didn't want to fall victim to the inevitable.
From what I know the most common things in AP1's are the valve retainers cracking due to over revving/mis-shifting. Sometimes AP2's have bad transmissions with 2nd, 4th, and 6th gear popping out of gear while driving, sign of a bad tranny. AP1's and AP2's have weak diffs and of course the convertible soft tops can rip easily. Also, A LOT of S2000's out there are salvaged titles due to theft or damage where the insurance company will deem parts/panels too costly to replace. There should be 10 VIN tags on the car. If any of them are missing it can be due to accident replacement, theft, or for some dumb reason a body shop removed the sticker and re-painted over it.
We had a discussion earlier in this thread about what people are paying for there S2000s. For the last couple of months I've been looking at AP2's between 20k-60k miles and they go for $15k+ I've seen AP1's with 80k+ miles go for about $10k. But then again I'm looking for a Grand Prix White color that always commands a $1-2k premium over other colors :\
I have a friend that owns a private dealer lot and he checks up on what dealers pay for their S2000's all the time. Recently found an AP2 '04 w/ 15k miles in GPW for $22k. Dealer paid $19k for it. Found another red AP2 '06 with 20k miles go for $23k, dealer paid $20k for it.
EDIT: just noticed, is this the E34 M5 in question? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/2912382232.html
Whenever I see cars like this posted and the ad does not mention anything about service records, valve adjustments, Inspection I/II service, basically being vague, then somethings up. Not like the owner could do the service and valve adjustments themselves, but for a 20 year old car with an S38B36 motor this needs special attention.
Thanks for the detailed input. My worry about the S2000 are owners who trashed it. I'll keep all of that in mind when I get closer to actually checking out cars.
That is the one in question, though craigslist auto-ads are typically not very detailed. I agree for a car like that he should have included info about the service records.
That is the one in question, though craigslist auto-ads are typically not very detailed. I agree for a car like that he should have included info about the service records.
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