echoshifting
Banned
Soulbound sounds a bit meh, and miracle sounds crazy broken. Looking forward to seeing how those play out.
Sigarda kicks Avacyn's ass at that mana cost.
Sigarda kicks Avacyn's ass at that mana cost.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This seems really really good. Almost too good.
I guess you have to reveal it when you draw it or you can't do it for the miracle cost. I doubt it will be on any crazy good cards, Thunderous Wrath is pretty good as 5 to the face is always relevant, but for constructed it's too weak in your opening hand.
I thought they said the new keywords would make sense with the graveyard theme of the last 2 sets? I can't see any of these fitting in my 4 colour burning vengeance deck.
echoshifting
Banned
Easily my favorite Avacyn Restored card thus far
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Hell yeah. Siggy and that demon are awesome
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I get the feeling that its going to be my new Vampire Nighthawk: the card that I love when I play it and dislike from a design/development perspective. Four mana for that body and those effects just seems too good considering. The ancillary cost doesn't strike me as something that will ever keep you from playing it unless you literally have no other creatures.
EDIT: Some crazy good mana/body ratio in this set so far. I hope they print some flying specific answers considering how much I suspect flying is going to show up.
Yea that's a pretty ridiculous card for a format with undying in it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I feel Undying would have been more interesting overall (going off of DKA here) if they had also run with a subtheme of +1/+1 counters so you had good ways to keep your opponent's cards from coming back.
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah I agree. The sac is an interesting leash on undying; if you're smart/lucky you can keep him from popping back up. Not nearly enough, though. Should be 2 creatures imho; maybe "Exile if you don't sacrifice two creatures. If entering the battleground from your graveyard, sacrifice one creature instead." Something like that.
Avacyn herself is horribly, horribly disappointing after seeing this batch. Any room left on the Avacyn hate train?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, I'd have made it "sac two" or upped the cost to maybe 3BB or 4BB. I mean, I would still totally play a 5/4 flying undying at six mana in black.
echoshifting
Banned
The more I think about Miracle, the more I hate it. Seems awfully clunky from pretty much any angle. I'll reserve judgment 'til the set hits, but that seems pretty poorly thought out.
Hopefully there will be removal that exiles (Path to Exile reprint? ;p)
Yeah that is a fun interaction.
What rarity is Restoration Angel? She's really strong for her cost, especially compared to Seakite from DA which is already a solid card. And that's ignoring the ability to blank your opponents removal (Does it? If you flash her in in response to Doom Blade does exiling a returning the target make Doom Blade fizzle?) or go again on a ETB effect.
All the cards look fun for limited so far except the GW angel, she just looks annoying.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I actually think I like it. It basically increases the tension of topdecking the right card while also forcing you to make a decision when you draw it in sub-optimal circumstances. Do I hit something for five now because I can for only one mana, or do I hold onto this as an answer to a future threat? Its a lot like Kicker in that respect, in that inexperienced players will almost always play it one way while advanced players will recognize the decision.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
FUCK
YES
OH FUCK YES
EDIT: Its almost fitting that I named the partitions on my hard-drive last week Ravnica, Dominaria, and Mercadia
YES
OH FUCK YES
EDIT: Its almost fitting that I named the partitions on my hard-drive last week Ravnica, Dominaria, and Mercadia
I was thinking about putting a couple in my burn deck, but I'm not sure. I kinda need a good opening hand to begin with, and it doesn't really contribute to one at all. But if I do topdeck it, that's a ton of damage.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I feel bad I only started playing Magic last year.
Ravnica means lots of cards that use multiple colours, and lots of mana fixing right?
Not necessarily. I'd actually be surprised if the hook for Ravnica 2 was "multicolor again". I suspect it will be how like Scars of Mirrodin still had lots of artifacts but wasn't an "artifact block" the way Mirrodin was. They definitely can't just make it the ten guilds system over again though.
echoshifting
Banned
Ffffuuuuuu RAVNICA
Oh god yes
Civil war, baby. Count on it.
What's the next set called again? It has flown from my mind. Avasomething something.
Oh god yes
Civil war, baby. Count on it.
What's the next set called again? It has flown from my mind. Avasomething something.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Klep just retweeted that from @wizards_magic. Fuck yes!
Niv-Mizzet is back? That's interesting, last I knew he had "run off" after losing a fight with a Nephilim.
For the Great Designer Search I pitched a "Return to Ravnica" that focused on a "war" between the ideologies of natural versus artificial, with the artificial side focused in U/B and led by a twisted clone of Niv-Mizzet that the Izzet had improperly revived after the original ran off. Can you tell this is my favorite setting?
echoshifting
Banned
Ravnica was what got me back into Magic as an adult. I went back and snagged a bunch of Kami since it was so cheap, but it was Ravnica that sucked me in. Wonderfully unique setting, clever mechanics, and some of the best art the game has ever seen, if not THE best. It's my favorite, too.
I don't like the two new legends. I would prefer that, if theyre going to develop cards with EDH obviously in mind, they make them interactive, not just straight up powerful "goodstuff." It's the same mindset they showed with a lot of the cards they build in the Commander set and I don't really agree with it as a design philosophy.
Restoration Angel is my favorite of the spoiled cards. Can never have too many blink enables. Ones with efficient costs that can also save guys are even more welcome. Stonecloaker 2.0, here I come! (Imagine saving a Avenger of Zendikar with this lol)
Return to Ravnica is exciting just because it heralds the return of multicolor (and, with it, decent fixing I hope). Beyond that and liking the setting, I'm a little weirded out by the reaction to the set. Yes, Ravnica had great design and balance, but setting a new block in the same setting won't magically transfer that quality into the present day. It's a superficial similarity from a game design perspective. Flavor is window dressing- it doesn't make the cards.
Restoration Angel is my favorite of the spoiled cards. Can never have too many blink enables. Ones with efficient costs that can also save guys are even more welcome. Stonecloaker 2.0, here I come! (Imagine saving a Avenger of Zendikar with this lol)
Return to Ravnica is exciting just because it heralds the return of multicolor (and, with it, decent fixing I hope). Beyond that and liking the setting, I'm a little weirded out by the reaction to the set. Yes, Ravnica had great design and balance, but setting a new block in the same setting won't magically transfer that quality into the present day. It's a superficial similarity from a game design perspective. Flavor is window dressing- it doesn't make the cards.
echoshifting
Banned
Don't really agree with the bolded. An interesting setting/premise is a big part of a block's appeal to me.
This could turn out to be disappointing, sure, but I guess many of us are just happy to get back into the guilds at this point. That's reason enough to be excited imho.
It can increase the appeal, sure, but will it ultimately determine how you feel about a block? In the end, they live and die by the cards. Crappy flavor can't destroy good design and good flavor can't save crappy design. (Kamigawa is a perfect example of this)
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
You're right, but I've felt positively enough about the last few blocks that I don't think they're likely to handle RtR poorly. The only block in recent years I haven't been too hot on was Alara: it had some great individual cards but overall it felt disjointed to me.
I liked Innistrad limited a lot, but I haven't enjoyed constructed in years (Lorwyn was the last time I liked it) and, as noted above, I feel like, now that Wizards in designed with EDH in mind, they're taking that format down a different path than I would like.
Obviously, quality varies from set to set and from mechanic to mechanic. I don't believe they'll handle it any more poorly or well than they would any other set. The main point I wanted to make was that flavor exists apart from the game. (Except in those instances where they go top down- and I don't think the cards that come out of that approach are particularly interesting outside the novelty of their realization of a concept) Return to Ravnica does not mean this will automatically be the first or second best set ever.
Obviously, quality varies from set to set and from mechanic to mechanic. I don't believe they'll handle it any more poorly or well than they would any other set. The main point I wanted to make was that flavor exists apart from the game. (Except in those instances where they go top down- and I don't think the cards that come out of that approach are particularly interesting outside the novelty of their realization of a concept) Return to Ravnica does not mean this will automatically be the first or second best set ever.
echoshifting
Banned
This is where I differ with many of you, I think. I still play a couple Kami decks now and then because I enjoy the flavor of the block so much.
Is there an "archetype" drawn to cards for flavor? I guess I'm probably a plain ol' Johnny, I dunno.
Not sure if serious........
Aristocrat is an excellent aggressive card. It fill a small, narrow niche but ti does its job well.
Klep just retweeted that from @wizards_magic. Fuck yes!
Oh neat, Niv-Mizzzet is back!
Oh boy, MOAR JACE..... >_>
I know it makes sense from the stroyline perspective but I still say this as someone who likes Jace
Avacyn Restored spoilers don't impress me much other than that multicolor angel which will make excellent EDH fodder. Looking forward to seeing more of the set in the coming weeks though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Vorthos and Melvin are the two personalities who operate on a different axis from the three "gameplay" psychographics. Vorthos is the flavor guy and Melvin is the "design" guy. I feel very strongly about both.
echoshifting
Banned
I was just coming back here to say, "ohhh, right the vorthos-melvin axis" but I see you've beaten me to it.
I'm a total Vorthos. If a block doesn't have any aesthetic appeal to me I won't touch it.
I'm a total Vorthos. If a block doesn't have any aesthetic appeal to me I won't touch it.
My feelings on flavor are largely similar to my feelings on story in most video games- if I want engaging stories, characters, and settings, I'm likely to go watch a movie, read a book, or marathon a TV series. Game designers are, understandably, not at their strongest in these areas, so I tend to prefer games (in all forms) that leverage the focus of the medium. That said, to each his own. I suppose if flavor has that much of an impact for you, finding this return exciting is an understandable reaction. I didn't mean to be the negative Nancy.
As an aside, I play tons of Kamigawa cards in EDH. I don't believe the set was lacking quality cards; it just didn't have the makings of a good standard environment with its inclusive themes and terrible mechanics for it in legends, sweep, etc. It's pretty bipolar in power level, with the great majority of the set being largely underpowered while a handful of cards are way overpowered. (Gifts, Jitte, Top, etc.)
As an aside, I play tons of Kamigawa cards in EDH. I don't believe the set was lacking quality cards; it just didn't have the makings of a good standard environment with its inclusive themes and terrible mechanics for it in legends, sweep, etc. It's pretty bipolar in power level, with the great majority of the set being largely underpowered while a handful of cards are way overpowered. (Gifts, Jitte, Top, etc.)
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Kamigawa is a set that's much better if you're looking at it during a time other then when it was legal. Although I did have a pretty kick-ass G/W Selesnya Spirits deck that made good use of that spirit recursion mechanic from Kamigawa
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Holy fuck @ these. Silverblade is the most meh out of the bunch, but overall, really good spoilers hypewise.
And yeah, I imagine for miracle cost you'd have to show the card as you draw it, or it'd never work.
WOOOOOOOOO!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, its biggest problem was coming right after Mirrodin. I started playing with Kamigawa, but I heard the talk around the table at the time.
Kamigawa block played excellently with Ravnica block, but yeah, while Mirrodin was around it had no chance to flourish.
A fact I think we tend to associate more with Ravnica than Kamigawa, perhaps unfairly.
Kamigawa was a pretty fun draft format once it got to CBS draft. C-C-C was a pretty awful format though. There were a few stupidly overpowered cards that just won games if you drew them(jitte being the big one).
I also remember testing a lot of block constructed at the time. It must have been a PTQ format. I remember not liking it much.
Edit: Kamigawa did give us one of the most skill intensive cards ever in Gifts Ungiven so I can't hate on it too much. Love that card.
I also remember testing a lot of block constructed at the time. It must have been a PTQ format. I remember not liking it much.
Edit: Kamigawa did give us one of the most skill intensive cards ever in Gifts Ungiven so I can't hate on it too much. Love that card.
echoshifting
Banned
My feelings on flavor are largely similar to my feelings on story in most video games- if I want engaging stories, characters, and settings, I'm likely to go watch a movie, read a book, or marathon a TV series. Game designers are, understandably, not at their strongest in these areas, so I tend to prefer games (in all forms) that leverage the focus of the medium. That said, to each his own. I suppose if flavor has that much of an impact for you, finding this return exciting is an understandable reaction. I didn't mean to be the negative Nancy.
Dissent is permitted!
I mean, you do raise good points. It's kinda like getting excited for the next Batman movie just because we know there is going to be another one after DKR. I love Batman, but we know (all too well) that you need a bit more. If the mechanics aren't there or the set is just flat-out sloppy I'll be right there criticizing it with the rest of you. I just wanted to emphasize that I don't think flavor is a non-factor in a set's appeal, at least not for everyone. =]
I don't like soul bond, from a practical standpoint, seems like it'd be a pain to manage.
"Wait, is this soul bound to this or is this soulbound to that? Which of them is being equipped/enchanted?"
Not that this'll be a problem in MTGO with the right implementation but I can see it being a pain in the physical game.
Anyway it'll be cool to see an angel's tribe for once.
"Wait, is this soul bound to this or is this soulbound to that? Which of them is being equipped/enchanted?"
Not that this'll be a problem in MTGO with the right implementation but I can see it being a pain in the physical game.
Anyway it'll be cool to see an angel's tribe for once.
echoshifting
Banned
eh, I just figure you stack em. If that won't work for some reason matching counters.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
So... Miracle means on my draw step I get to cast whichever card I draw for a ridiculously low cost?
echoshifting
Banned
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I figure I'll just put them really close together.
I figure you'd just put them right next to each other. And you can't have one thing bound to multiple guys so it shouldn't ever get more complicated than that.
That miracle card isn't that bad. It's hella expensive if you don't draw it and it's hella cheap if you do. Sounds fair to me. And it's less likely they will draw it the first turn of upkeep. The only reliable way to set it up is with Ponder.
I'm guessing the Paladin isn't considered human? A little disappointed if not.
That 2BB creature is sick. Fits right in with a zombies deck.
I'm guessing the Paladin isn't considered human? A little disappointed if not.
That 2BB creature is sick. Fits right in with a zombies deck.
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