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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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PillowKnight
Member
These kinds of things are always followed by a massive losing streak, you've been warned!
Also ITT people don't understand how matchmaking ratings work. I don't know how else to explain it.
throwawayname
Member
LOL at people begging for likes in game and lobbies.
I'll 2nd (or 3rd, or 4th, ..... etc) that matchmaking sucks balls.
I was in a game with an Ursa who had no fucking idea what he was doing. After some questioning he asks why I clicked on the "DotA Noob" for easy wins setting when you first start the game up because he is a complete newbie (with 7 wins) .... I explained I had picked the last experience setting.
He wasn't anyones friend, he wasn't partied with anyone, how the fuck did he get into my game and utterly ruin it?
I was in a game with an Ursa who had no fucking idea what he was doing. After some questioning he asks why I clicked on the "DotA Noob" for easy wins setting when you first start the game up because he is a complete newbie (with 7 wins) .... I explained I had picked the last experience setting.
He wasn't anyones friend, he wasn't partied with anyone, how the fuck did he get into my game and utterly ruin it?
I just realized Steam says I got 100 hrs on Dota 2 but I haven't played a single game. I should probably stop using the spectate function as a TV while working and p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶s̶ start ruining some of your games guys, lol.
tsunami643
Member
It's almost as if Valve hasn't fully implemented the leveling system for accounts and finalized their matchmaking algorithm in a beta version of the game.
I think what people are getting at is that in recent patches the matchmaking has gotten considerably worse in who it matches you up with. The frequency that you get matched up with the newest players seems higher now than it did a month or two ago.
Yeah what's odd is that the matchmaking was definitely better before. It fucked up around maybe the lycan patch? The influx of new players couldn't have been that big.
Leveling is going to have no effect on MM at all, it'll just be used to show how much someone has played.
Blast Processing
Member
Anyone play Bounty Hunter? I've started learning him, and got about 15 games under my belt with him so far. I've seen a couple of guides recommend that you focus on ganks for gold rather than farming creeps in lanes, but what about jungle creeps?
So far I've been laning long enough to get Track, and usually buy a Poor Man's Shield, Phase Boots and maybe a Medallion before I try to start getting ganks on other lanes.
Should I be initiating with my invis and backstab, or let someone else hit with a stun or something, first?
Also, I never seem to see Bounty Hunter on any of the streams on joindota, does he just suck for competitive?
So far I've been laning long enough to get Track, and usually buy a Poor Man's Shield, Phase Boots and maybe a Medallion before I try to start getting ganks on other lanes.
Should I be initiating with my invis and backstab, or let someone else hit with a stun or something, first?
Also, I never seem to see Bounty Hunter on any of the streams on joindota, does he just suck for competitive?
There are two ways to play him, as a ganker and as a carry. While he can fulfill both roles, he's a average/below average carry and possibly the best ganker in the game, solely because of his ult. It can easily mean some 3000+ gold for your team in the late game with a good stream of ganks.
Avoid Medallion, it just doesn't work well with him. I usually prefer a Bottle in place of Poor Man's Shield but both are decent on him. Drums of Endurance is surprisingly good for BH. For pure damage, go Desolator or Monkey King Bar. If your team needs a silence, Orchid Malevolence is a great early choice on him.
Depends. He's squishy, so if you open on the wrong person at the wrong time you can get focused down. However it's also a pretty powerful slow and can be setup for further lock down, especially for heroes like Leshrac and Lina with a delayed stun. You can also harass by stealthing first, waiting for it to cool down, hitting them once and applying track, then stealthing immediately after. This will put them in a really rough spot and usually scare them off, and is of minimal risk to you while still allowing you and your allies to chase.
He is picked pretty often actually, mainly due to his ult. Not a staple like some other heroes but not forgotten either.
I'd be more willingly to bet that its Valve tinkering with pairing to gather statistics. Because in reality this is still a beta, and your playing experience at this point in the game's life cycle isn't the top priority.
Well look at you Sarcastic Sally.
My point is that this never happened before. In 300 games, I was never matched with a COMPLETE new player as this guy was.
If I were to be matched with a completely new player, it should have been when I was "new" to DotA 2 .... not 250+ hours and 130 wins later ...
EG confirmed Neo Gaf lurkers? Also they doing my favourite Aura Stacking strat with Beastmaster and VS, I wonder if this will work at competitive level. Going to be a interesting game.
Since everyone will be playing Brewmaster this week, I'll ask how to play Phantom Lancer (because he is totally coming to make up for last week). I saw a video of 820 in a Chinese pub and he went Poor Man's Shield -> Tranquil -> Vit Booster -> Radiance -> Heart. His skill build was Lance and stats until 6 where he got ultimate, then he got Dopplewalk and Juxtapose. Does that sound about right?
I am still predicting just Phantom Lancer, and Brewmaster next week, Followed by Treant Protector, then Meepo, then Dirge, and then Abaddon to keep people on their toes.
Sounds about right. Treads is kinda crappy on PL because +attack speed doesn't work with illusions and phase is no go. You can eventually disassemble tranquil for travels which is PL's ideal pair of boots. Radiance is really good but it isn't super-must-have-core on him like Spectre, you can swap it out for diffusal if you want. Radiance does allow him to farm like a madman though by dopplewalking an illusion into the jungle that spawns more illusions that you can send to other camps. Butterfly would be the next obvious item after Heart -- this makes his illusions unkillable and extremely annoying.
Skill build is pretty much right although I'd get dopplewalk earlier if you're up against an aggressive lane.
Also I want Ogre Magi, f you guys.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Probably. The issue, though, isn't me winning. It's me stomping the other team. To the point where I feel bad about it. They legitimately should not be matched up against us. They literally don't stand a chance. It's not fair for them, and frankly, it gets kind of boring for me.
I know that's now how MMR works, but I also know that the way Valve is using MMR - even matches - should result in an even win-loss ratio. X:
Schweinehund
Member
midas/dagon/agh ogre magi gaf inhouse lets do this.
The MM isn't designed to get people a 50% win ratio, it's designed to make the best match at the time.
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=27214&page=2&p=156854&viewfull=1#post156854
Togglesworlh
Banned
Yes, that's what I said: "even matches". Guess what naturally happens to a ratio when the chances of either side winning is even.
Dreams-Visions
Member
thanks for that link, as I've been wondering about this for some time. Interesting insight. This quote:
"We don't try to match high skill players with low skill players instead we try to get 10 people that fit together the best."
I find to be an interesting comment. Partially because I've not found it to be true. I'm one of those guys that has played probably 95% of matches as solo pub. The teammates I'm often matched with have nothing to do with how they appear to "fit together" IMO because...well, how can the game determine how a player with 10 wins in 30 games will fit well on a team with me and my 250 wins? What metrics and formulas are being used to conclude that I should be paired with someone that has 0 wins in 4 games now? Because it happens once a day. I do my best to offer advice, recommendations and encouragement, but someone with 3 games under their belt is going to have growing pains no matter how much recommendation is given.
I've found myself with more combined wins and experience (total games) than the rest of my team combined, and when we get rofflestomped by an opposing team who has an even distribution of wins (everyone with 80-150 wins)...well...I'm not surprised.
Now, certainly when a guy picks a character he's never used before, there's a higher chance you'll lose than the MMR may have predicted...and that's happened many times (after which I encouraged those players to try out and figure out new heroes in vs Bots matches offline instead of in MP where people are looking to win). And of course team composition matters. But most of the stomps I've been on the receiving end of were a function of people just failing to play matchups correctly (like someone with a slow/stun + Ursa or Jugg early and feeding...or someone trying to mid vs. Pudge and not knowing how to lane against him and feeding) or support/gankers not being interested in warding.
IDK. I'm the last one to talk, as I actually have a .500 record, which apparently makes Valve smile...but I feel like too many of the wins and losses are secondary to poor players on one side or the other, rather than players of similar skill getting better together. I'd guess that 7/10 are stomps and 3/10 are actually good games.
Maybe the problem is that when I think of really good matchmaking, I think of Star Craft II and Halo, which tended to yield good matches after awhile when your skill level has been established. After 500 matches, too many matches are stomps for my taste.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Interesting indeed. lol. I mean, I certainly appreciate the stress-free nature of being on the stomping team...and even when I'm on the team getting stomped, there are plenty of things that I work on to get better in Dota2 in general and just take it as a learning opportunity...but I honestly prefer games that are more balanced. but idk.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Haha, that's kind of awesome.
Dota Test gets updated on Wednesday. Dota 2 gets updated on Thursday.
I hope that eventually they just add a visible rating and go by that, it's one of the easiest ways to do it, and is a clear indicator of how well your improving instead of those red bars that give no statistics on other people in my skill range.
Would you say this image is accurate to your problem?
Dreams-Visions
Member
My personal favorite is when someone begs for mid over other capable characters, takes it and feeds the opposing mid...only to later admit it was their first time ever using the mid character.
Honestly, I don't know why they didn't do this already.
I don't understand the reasoning behind it, people being scared of teammates flaming / judging them if they have a low Rating, they'll flame them either way if they play like shit.
XeroSauce
Member
Cool, thanks.
Dreams-Visions
Member
indeed.
same here, a lot of people with like 2 games and a lot of leavers these days. today in 3 games enemy team left after 2 minutes.
So I get this guy in my MM queue, feeds a bit then leaves ( I randomed, not a shitty Lone Druid Picker )
Excellent MM algorithm here. Everyone in game was 200+ wins in
Then I got this
but thankfully IGware is a master dodger, and saved us from that loss.
What does this mean?
Earthstrike
Member
what's the best way to deal with ursa? Is he considered OP or is he just capable of stomping low level games?
PillowKnight
Member
He's not considered op at all he's one of the weakest carries in the game, the easiest way to deal with ursa is stuns and kiting...just dont let him get near you.
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