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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
- Thread starter Swag
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Fnatic (HoN) vs Darer on right now (No English stream)
Says it's Starladder? They're already participating in a league?
throwawayname
Member
I need one for a buddy if still avaiable.
Gully State
Member
So this is a super nerdy question but does anyone know if there's a sortable spreadsheet out there that puts all the starting stats of every hero together? I figure someone has got to have done this seeing as how the values are readily available...
I ask because I was watching Purge's Slardar vid and he harasses the crap out of his laning opponent (Tiny) based on the fact that Tiny has the lowest starting armor rating in the game (information that most pubs probably wouldn't even have thought of).
I ask because I was watching Purge's Slardar vid and he harasses the crap out of his laning opponent (Tiny) based on the fact that Tiny has the lowest starting armor rating in the game (information that most pubs probably wouldn't even have thought of).
Schweinehund
Member
Are they still sending out guest keys to accounts?
I haven't recieved 2 extra ones yet, and I play... a lot.
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/nxzx4/hero_stats/
Some hero stats.
Doom also has really low armor, but high strength gain. Best to harass him all you can early levels.
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I haven't recieved 2 extra ones yet, and I play... a lot.
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/nxzx4/hero_stats/
Some hero stats.
Doom also has really low armor, but high strength gain. Best to harass him all you can early levels.
He's a garbage hero who needs something...
Valve was supposed to be sending out extra keys from players at USW, USE and EU in that order. I assume the USW keys are the only ones doled out so far as I have played >600 hours and I haven't got extra keys.
Tell that to Artstyle.
Tell that to Artstyle.
Schweinehund
Member
I will when I get onto a pro level.
AFAIC Ursa is top tier for pubs. Doom is garbage tier.
f1 x2
throwawayname
Member
How many times are Gosu gonna fail attempt Rosh until they realize they loose this if they keep on doing this..
throwawayname
Member
game was nice, and short.
Gully State
Member
I'm sure someone has pointed this out but I've never head of a discussion in regards to this. Last night, I managed to accidently pull the middle creep lane using the large neutral creep camp (red arrow) on Radiant side. I'm curious as to why this isn't exploited more as opposed to the normal medium neutral creep camp closest to the safe lane? Stacking and pulling this camp for a jungler would not only benefit in tanking creeps but also deny the opposing mid lane from getting experience and levels (plus it's hard to stop since it's close to a tier 2 tower..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvYQN9Q0PnE
I know I'm not the first person to ever pull this off, but I felt satisfied doing it.
I know I'm not the first person to ever pull this off, but I felt satisfied doing it.
PillowKnight
Member
Games won doesn't mean anything.
I'm quite sure I shouldn't be matched with someone who had to ask if swap was in the game yet. Regardless our crushing defeat was rewarded with a pub stomp the next game we played. :/
Swings and roundabouts I guess.
Togglesworlh
Banned
No, but ratio does, and when the enemy team consistently has a worse win-loss ratio than your own team, something's up. (To calculate an approximate ratio, check game history, multiply page number by 7, subtract wins, and you have your losses, plus up to six.)
And maybe even that wouldn't matter, except we're constantly destroying the other team (this is when I'm playing with a premade of 3-5 people). I have won probably three times as many games as I've lost in the past few weeks, and every time, most of the enemy team has played less than 100 games, sometimes less than 50, and has lost significantly more than they've won...
PillowKnight
Member
Yeah definitely, but that's a problem that's different from mm. You can't place new players at a low enough mmr value that existing players wont fall under.I'm quite sure I shouldn't be matched with someone who had to ask if swap was in the game yet. Regardless our crushing defeat was rewarded with a pub stomp the next game we played. :/
Swings and roundabouts I guess.
That sounds weird but..for example in hon new players started at 1500 mmr, you would then think that 1500 would be some baseline, but it wasn't new players would fall down to 1100~1300 mmr. I think this has something to do with some people learning the game faster than others, or that it happens because of a difference in attitudes.
I'm not sure if blizzard's whole rank system works this out somehow, but I thought it worked well for the short time I played SC2.
Regardless, if you're low enough on the ladder you will get matched with new players from time to time and the reason for this is because there aren't enough players exactly at your skill level at that exact time you want to play.
Win loss ratio also isn't an indicator of player skill because it doesn't tell you who they're playing with or against.
Let's say you've got player A who has an mmr of 1000 and this guy teams up and plays with players who have 300 mmr. The 1000 mmr guy will likely be able to stomp teams composed of say 500, so while both team's average mmr will be similar, the 1000 player will have a very high win rate. But, because he's playing against low mmr opponents his mmr doesn't grow, and he can continue 'farming' win %. There are a bunch of other ways to manipulate the system, and the worst one by far is smurfing.
Playing with pre-made is kind of different...since there might not be a skill difference but just a difference in coordination, and the fact that 5 random pubs are more likely to turn on each other, rage, and throw, than a team that's together. A big part of winning solo queue games is for the players to overcome the overwhelming disdain they have for each other.
Wait, are you saying that your jungler should be stacking it? I dunno, maybe at the start of the match. The only problem is that camp is very far away from the big three on radiant. I'm not a great jungler by any means, but after a certain amount of levels and items I can generally go between the three main camps continuously if I'm pulling smartly and stacking at every opportunity. But who knows, maybe I'm actually too slow and should be killing them quicker, heh.
But to go out to that large camp is a lot of time walking when I could be nearly constantly creeping in the fatter part of the jungle. Plus, being at that camp puts me way out of range if I want to help gank in the safe lane. In the end time is money and thats a lot of time walking.
Nope.
No it does not.
So who is ready for Brewmasternext week?and Phantom Lancer
That's optimistic. I'm just hoping for a fix to the matchmaking servers.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Not directly, but given that [someone here said] Valve has said their goal with matchmaking is to create the most even matches possible as per the makeup of the team, the win-loss ratio should end up relatively even. That is somewhat true for me right now, but not for my enemies. The fact that it's not means something is wrong. And the fact that I'm repeatedly being matched up against similar teams means something is wrong.
Schweinehund
Member
I agree with sebulon* in that it seems really random right now.
Today I beat a 5 man stack who were obviously newer to the game, and when I requeued I got them again, and 3/5 my old team and we beat them again. Just recently I got into a game with people with >50 games while I have almost 400 wins. A few weeks ago I got matched with a pro player, a few days ago against king raven. I'm +20 wins right now. It seems the pool is too small right now to impose strict mm rules. I'm assuming the people with >50 wins that were terrible at the game for some reason selected advanced when they first started dota 2 as their experience.
PillowKnight
Member
I basically responded to this in my original post. Well, I forgot to mention that players who just start playing dota 2 can range from people who have never played a MOBA in their life, to lol players who have some experince, to dota pro players who have played over ten thousand games.
Valve should add a "new player zone" where new players are slotted into for their first say ~20 games as a probation period and afterwards they're assigned a mmr depending on their win rate. This helps against smurfs, people who overvalue(or undervalue) their skill and it keeps players who have been playing for a while from having to be part of this mmr sorting process.
This approximation gets horribly flawed when people load games solo against bots to mess around, not sure if IH's track on them either.
Applying imperfect math to matchmaking probably isn't going to help make a case for what should be fixed, let alone figure out what's broken.
Based on what I've seen with skill bucketing, I think Valve is already tracking team MMR in some way, or doing something less elegant like "If you are in a party your skill gets adjusted up to the highest person in your pre-made party." An adjusted average of the MMR could have the same effect, also didn't someone say once that Valve said they preferentially tried to match teams against teams?
Togglesworlh
Banned
That's all fine and dandy, but the biggest problem for me is that this is a new thing. I didn't used to have these kinds of matches. They were mostly even, with lots of back and forth. It's only recently that I've been dominating nearly nonstop.
Those actually don't show up in your public game history. Also of note is that I believe the maximum number of pages is 72. Or at least, that is the maximum number that the game history tab will display. (72 x 7 = 504, which is much fewer total games than I or some of my friends have played, and yet it says there are only 72 pages.)
Well, of course. My only intention with explaining that was just to show how I knew they have a much worse ratio than me and mine.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I personally think that MMR isn't doing shit or otherwise doesn't work. I believe that to be true because I've been in matches where my team had a combined number of wins of over 700 (all solo pubbers) while the opposing team had a collective total of maybe 70 wins, with 3 people with less than 15 wins. I've been on teams multiple times with people who've never played Dota before. After 250 wins and 8 characters above a "level 4" performance ranking, you'd think this would not be the case if some sort of skill-based matchmaking were taking place. And yet it does constantly.
Rare are the truly balanced games that last a long time and go back and forth. Common are stomps one way or the other, feeders and rage-quitting. I'd say the ratio has been something like 30:70 in favor of stompings. Maybe this will change after the level system is re-implemented.
I see practice matches in my history.
Rare are the truly balanced games that last a long time and go back and forth. Common are stomps one way or the other, feeders and rage-quitting. I'd say the ratio has been something like 30:70 in favor of stompings. Maybe this will change after the level system is re-implemented.
I see practice matches in my history.
False. Team EG.GNRZ is undefeated and is the undisputed #1. Logic bro.
In all seriousness though, win/loss is honestly the closest thing you can get to gauging skill--it's better than ward count, k/d, etc... If you have 60%+ win, you're doing something right.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Public. You can't see others'. Unless they changed it recently.
Won a 4v5. Guy disconnected at hero selection. Game doesn't count. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
They haven't. I was wondering why I saw a friend playing and then checked his history but saw nothing. Figured he was playing bot games.
dorkimoe
Member
It has to be something
Cuz me and spookie had a guy with 8 wins versus a guy with 300 on the other team. Was just silly
that's a measure of genes and nerdiness as defined by the Le Anbokre` principle, defined:
2x(eastern hemisphere genes) + nerdiness + 1/107356(skill) - 1/2(any other gene) = gpm.
This is, however, qualified by the sanjay corollary... which is further clarified by the meteorain phenomena (explains the rare case of obtaining a negative gpm--still one of the universe's greatest mysteries).
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