By really popular you mean being popularly shitty and anonymous?
New Super Mario Bros 2 announced for 3DS - August 2012
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
By really popular you mean being popularly shitty and anonymous?
And this right here is the reason why people are disappointed. People see stuff like Orioto's artwork and Rayman Origins (and the like), and they want Nintendo to go that extra mile. They are perfectly legitimate business, technological, and gameplay reasons why they don't (I have the feeling they value visual clarity over artsy clutter), but that doesn't wash away that feeling that there's so much more that could be done with the 2D Mario template than simply rehash itself.
And that is the other problem, one that Sis Focaccia brought up: the overly self-referential attitude of these games. NSMB DS could get away with it to a certain extent, because it was the first 2D Mario in ages, but this has been lost in the wake of 3 (possibly 4) games in this series. Every game has to start with a SMB level 1-1 reference... they all have to have this and that... it doesn't feel like they're creating new paradigms or classic iconography, but reusing it over and over again.
SMB3 and SMW didn't feel like they were constrained in homaging themselves so much. They confidently forged their own path and created fresh, new additions to the series that other games could subsequently explore. NSMB as a series doesn't feel like it's adding to the legacy, but constantly mining from it.
I kind of felt that way about the first one, but NSMBW had a lot of subtle art effects that were quite pretty. I would prefer for the new one to look more like SMB3, but the NSMB series has developed its own identity now and that's not a bad thing.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
No. You're spinning the issue and missing the point. Nintendo is demonstrating an apparent refusal to improve upon and experiment with the art style of these games. They're massively uninspired compared to any of their other franchises. When someone is lazy and pursues easy cash-ins without growing and strengthening their craft, that's reflective of a lack of integrity.
Edit: Removed my second point, cause others have already made it.
If you have a positive opinion about the game, that's great. But it's not any more rational than what people are complaining about with these games. The style looking virtually the same is a legitimate complaint. Some people were kind of hoping that they'd be treated to a refreshing to coincide with two new systems.
If there's one thing I dislike about this forum its this correlation people make between being gung ho about an aspect that many think is shit and being more "rational."
There's no "wait and see" or until you play it with this one, it's right there in the screenshot, and it's not subject to change.
If there's one thing I dislike about this forum its this correlation people make between being gung ho about an aspect that many think is shit and being more "rational."
There's no "wait and see" or until you play it with this one, it's right there in the screenshot, and it's not subject to change.
Agent Unknown
Member
Look two posts below mine.
I agee they do look bland, but people are getting bent out of shape about it and trashing the game when we only have a few screens to go on.
After what we've seen from the DS, Wii, and Wii U demo versions, what makes you think the 3DS version is going to be any significantly different?
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Remember how hyped people were about the Super Mario Bros. 4 rumor last week? People are starving for a new Mario with a new art style.
Agent Unknown
Member
I love NSMB Wii so as long as it holds up to that game's levels and challenge with some new elements I'm fine. Time to get some lunch and play some games, later.
Metroid Hunter
Banned
Is it true that Super Mario 3D Land is ahead of Mario Kart 7 by about 500k in NA? I know its tailing behind MK7 in Japan and is pretty much equal in Europe, but is it really ahead of sales here? If so, what's the point of this game coming out so soon?
Also, Wikipedia says Super Mario 3D Land is the system's biggest seller. I don't understand the point of this game being announced now and coming out in four months!
Also, Wikipedia says Super Mario 3D Land is the system's biggest seller. I don't understand the point of this game being announced now and coming out in four months!
Stop changing "gaf" with "people"
guys, I think you don't get my hint...
someone still has not bought 3DS?
because of the terrible batteries, or, I don't know, design?
A couple games in this style were fine, but when they announce a brand new one, and there's a possibility of yet another coming on the Wii U it becomes quite aggravating, because they're basically saying "our future plans for Mario are to keep doing games exactly like this, indefinitely."
Can't they let Good-Feel or Hal Lab. develop a Mario game?
Can't they let Good-Feel or Hal Lab. develop a Mario game?
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
The most radically different one there only uses the Super Mario name for marketing, imho... Nintendo still tries different art styles in platformers, like Kirby's Epic Yarn, Wario Shake It, Return to Dreamland, DKCR, etc. Just not for New Super Mario (not even all of Mario, the 3D games look different even if they share some similarities in style). I like how your screenshots demonstrate that they've combined and improved visual elements from the previous games too, especially evident in the SMB3 and SMW shots. And by the way, there are quite a few different aesthetics in all the "samey" shots you posted, from the design of the foliage and clouds to the different layers used for distant backgrounds and the like. There often are different styles within the same game too.
As soon as they release Paper Mario (which we haven't heard a damn thing about) I'll pick one up again. Sold my first one back in July of last year.
Also if you went online with an Ambassador 3DS but never downloaded the games, could you log in with your Club account and download them onto a new one?
TheNatural
My Member!
Other people will point out semantics of people saying art, style, and bland and then go back to the older game to nitpick some point about the words they used. The bottom line is, some people just don't think it looks that good, and maybe don't know the exact words to describe why the NSMB series doesn't look that great and lost the feel of the older 2D Mario platformers, but that doesn't make it any less valid.
My best description of why I think it doesn't look well is all the parts put together look extremely out of place. Using words like art, style, and this or that is subjective but let me put it this way. I think the background combined with the foreground combined with the polygonal characters looks way off in these games.
First off, in outside areas, the background looks usually like some light pastel colored artwork that has to mesh with the foreground of the bricks, pipes, and ground, and the foreground doesn't mesh well with the background. They aren't consistent with one another, so it makes the whole game look as if you're playing in nothing more than a wallpaper for the foreground. I think this is also the reason most people would say the underground levels look better - because the dark background doesn't make the foreground blocks and pipes look weird and out of place compared to one another.
And then you through in the polygonal models of Mario and enemies and it looks even more weird. Mario himself looks like a low polygon model that doesn't even look great - for him - especially when you compare it to something like past Smash Bros games. I don't think many 3D models in 2D games look that great in the first place unless some sort of focus is put on cel or toon shading. You have these polygon models of Mario with the foreground and background and everything looks out of whack.
I'll compare the feelings on the series to how people feel when old school 2D brawlers commonly get remade for XBLA or whatever recently. Things look weird and out of place with relation to one another. That's how I feel about this series, as best as I can explain.
I'm sure someone will nitpick and try to tell me why I'm wrong for having this opinion, but I've played through basically every Mario game ever multiple times and have a grasp on why I think the way these games have a look that looks wrong and out of place.
I'm sorry but we literally only need one screen to get a general idea of how the game will look. We have more than two and so far the game looks IDENTICAL to the previous entries. It's really a shame because, regardless of whether the NES/SNES games were artsy or not, this game COULD have a unique visual style because the graphic powers of the 3DS and Wii U enable it. Nintendo is hardly low on cash and even if they were they could do more than they currently are. I was disappointed with NSMBW for using the same artstyle but I was content. Now with TWO new Mario sidescrollers it's getting out of hand. Beyond that the most disappointing thing is that Nitnendo wants to reference the past so freaking much. I don't think people are really that excited about the Tanooki tail anymore since it was already heavily featured in SM3DL and MK7.
The screen with the Tanooki tail is just really bothering me. The castle in the background looks RIPPED from NSMBW, the Goomba looks ripped from the game, the blocks and the platforms do too. They need to start developing new things for the series like EAD Tokyo does. Look at all that Galaxy introduced to the series! There's just so much. Now the only thing I can think of from the NSMB series are a few powerups, only one that is genuinely good (propeller suit). Everything else is there to get people to feel nostalgic (similar appearance to NES games, map system, Yoshi, airships, Koopa Kids etc. etc.). All I really want is something FRESH.
Super Mario 64 was originally going to have a fixed isometric viewpoint. Miyamoto abandoned the idea because he felt it was too similar to previous Mario games (which is crazy because even then it would be enough of a difference to make an impression). He tried to differentiate it as much as possible and it's now viewed as one of the best games ever made. Super Mario Galaxy did so much stuff that was NEW and it's the highest rated game of this millenium! NSMB, I don't think, will be remembered as fondly as these titles because they didn't innovate AT ALL. The only thing really unique about it is the co-op but the games in general just aren't as new as their titles would imply.
Both nsmb game sold 25+ million copies... The artstyle is popular for the general public. I have never seen anyone complaining about it outside of the internet.
Graphic discussions are boring. Let me ask another question:
What does this announcement mean for NSMB Mii? Is the game real or not? It would be very much un-like Nintendo to announce or even release two games of the same sub-series next to each other. The company is smart enough to know that such a release pattern undermines the sales potential of each of the games; especially if the games in question are supposed to be system-sellers. A system-seller only works if the game is something actually special after all.
So, are we really seeing both NSMB2 and NSMB Mii at E3 this year? Will we maybe even play both games this very year? Or is their something else going on altogether?
Who actually confirmed that the Wii U Mario game Miyamoto referred to is indeed NSMB Mii? Was it Nintendo America? And if so, does the person who released the statement actually know what games are in development or did he simply assume that the guys in Japan will turn NSMB Mii into a full-fledged Wii U game?
Or are NSMB Mii and NSMB2 maybe even one and the same game? The next Smash Bros is going to be available on both the 3DS and the Wii U in some form, is Nintendo taking the same approach for NSMB? Are both games in fact closely related and complementing each other?
Or maybe NSMB Mii is contrary to what we believe not going to be a full-fledged game? Bundling Wii Sports with the Wii helped the Wii enormously to gain momentum: Is Nintendo trying to gather people's interest with a bundled game again? Maybe this game is in fact a compilation similar to Wii Play with a bunch of mini-games? Maybe we are going to see a "Mii game pack" with some of the tech-demos shown at last E3 with a few NSMB "Mii" levels thrown into the mix as the icing of the cake?
Opinions?
What does this announcement mean for NSMB Mii? Is the game real or not? It would be very much un-like Nintendo to announce or even release two games of the same sub-series next to each other. The company is smart enough to know that such a release pattern undermines the sales potential of each of the games; especially if the games in question are supposed to be system-sellers. A system-seller only works if the game is something actually special after all.
So, are we really seeing both NSMB2 and NSMB Mii at E3 this year? Will we maybe even play both games this very year? Or is their something else going on altogether?
Who actually confirmed that the Wii U Mario game Miyamoto referred to is indeed NSMB Mii? Was it Nintendo America? And if so, does the person who released the statement actually know what games are in development or did he simply assume that the guys in Japan will turn NSMB Mii into a full-fledged Wii U game?
Or are NSMB Mii and NSMB2 maybe even one and the same game? The next Smash Bros is going to be available on both the 3DS and the Wii U in some form, is Nintendo taking the same approach for NSMB? Are both games in fact closely related and complementing each other?
Or maybe NSMB Mii is contrary to what we believe not going to be a full-fledged game? Bundling Wii Sports with the Wii helped the Wii enormously to gain momentum: Is Nintendo trying to gather people's interest with a bundled game again? Maybe this game is in fact a compilation similar to Wii Play with a bunch of mini-games? Maybe we are going to see a "Mii game pack" with some of the tech-demos shown at last E3 with a few NSMB "Mii" levels thrown into the mix as the icing of the cake?
Opinions?
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
They are all installments of New Super Mario Bros. . Not like one is called Super Mario Galactica or Super Mario Beachbums. Are they not supposed to look the same? But again, would any sane developer make radical changes to a series that sold 20-30 million world wide?
That is why Nintendo has a seperate team making the Galaxy / 3D land series.
So Nintendo is artistically and intellectually bankrupt after 4 screenshots, no video footage and barely an announcement? I know hyperbole is the standard here, but that's pretty ridiculous.
I enjoyed all the NSMB games. I agree the art style is bland, but it's not the end of the world. I'm just quite glad that I don't play those games for their amazing graphics. If I would have let boring textures get in my way then most of this generation would have been a loss.
Are all the folks who are citing Yoshi's Island as inspiration doing so in favor of another YI game with the same art style? Would milking that art style be OK because it's something you like?
Also, when did Nintendo officially announce they were releasing NSMBMii as a full fledged game? Last I checked it was still a tech demo. Did that leak or are we just counting it to discredit the NSMB franchise and make it look bloated?
I enjoyed all the NSMB games. I agree the art style is bland, but it's not the end of the world. I'm just quite glad that I don't play those games for their amazing graphics. If I would have let boring textures get in my way then most of this generation would have been a loss.
Are all the folks who are citing Yoshi's Island as inspiration doing so in favor of another YI game with the same art style? Would milking that art style be OK because it's something you like?
Also, when did Nintendo officially announce they were releasing NSMBMii as a full fledged game? Last I checked it was still a tech demo. Did that leak or are we just counting it to discredit the NSMB franchise and make it look bloated?
Doesn't really seem all that interesting, but I imagine it'll sell a fuckton for Nintendo. The NSMB series has that going for it at the very least lol.
Has it been confirmed yet that it'll have crossplay with the Wii U version or are we just assuming it will do right now? Also, what's going on with "Super Mario Bros. 4"? Was that ever confirmed to be real or was it a mistranslation from that Miyamoto interview and he actually meant NSBM2?
Has it been confirmed yet that it'll have crossplay with the Wii U version or are we just assuming it will do right now? Also, what's going on with "Super Mario Bros. 4"? Was that ever confirmed to be real or was it a mistranslation from that Miyamoto interview and he actually meant NSBM2?
JetBlackPanda
Member
Basically Nintendo is doing a "Fire Everything" at Sony.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
There may be an exception for MEGA-GAMES like New Super Mario Bros. and Super Smash Bros. Furthermore, Nintendo may be planning some "next-gen" connection features between them.
The evidence is beyond circumstantial.
1. New Super Mario Bros. Mii premieres with "4 original levels" and a logo.
2. Miyamoto speaks of it like a game in development during his video interview
3. Nintendo registers New Super Mario Bros. Mii domain
4. Miyamoto mentions Nintendo will show off Wii U mario game based on what we saw last E3.
5. New Super Mario Bros. is Nintendo's best selling franchise right now.
You've nailed my thoughts twice consecutively.
The backgrounds are the part that could use the most work. And the fact that all the models are the same, for the same enemies, in the same world types. I dislike 2.5D on principle because I don't see the damn point of it, but at least trying to refine it and expand it would go a long way to helping my opinion.
Again, great post.
It doesn't matter what the artstyle is, the public doesn't like the game for it's artstyle. Just because it sold that many doesn't make it the de facto or objectively superior one to use. Terrible argument.
I like how the old 2D Mario games changed art style which made the game seem fresh after every new entry.
SMW
Yoshi's Island
Smoothed sprites look like ass. *shudder*
Aaron Strife
Banned
I'm pretty sure the Mario formula is becoming that the 2D games will be more or less locked into this art style with minor changes here and there, because they're the safe, 20 million sellers for Nintendo. The differentiating factor is the major hook of the game. For NSMB, it was "brand new 2D Mario." For NSMB Wii, it was the multiplayer. For this game, it'll probably be the 3D, though I'd be a little disappointed if that was it, since Mario 3D Land already demonstrated that well enough.
Meanwhile, the 3D games will continue the trend set by Galaxy, Galaxy 2, and 3D Land of expanding beyond the traditional Mario concepts and being incredibly fun.
Ed: I just realized this comes out around the same time as Black 2 and White 2 in America. Nintendomination.
Meanwhile, the 3D games will continue the trend set by Galaxy, Galaxy 2, and 3D Land of expanding beyond the traditional Mario concepts and being incredibly fun.
Ed: I just realized this comes out around the same time as Black 2 and White 2 in America. Nintendomination.
Diddy Kong
Banned
Miyamoto said the Mario Wii-U game to be seen at this e3 is "based" on NSMBMii
That's due to the emulator.
Yes, graphics discussions are boring
I don't understand where is this thread going, but for what it's worth, buzz is already there when I facebooked this announcement. Not from gamers like you and me, but from non-hardcore geeks, coworkers of mine, etc...
What I find interesting is the release date: August, likely worldwide. NSMB2 don't enter the race for the holiday season. This is a new step for a Mario game. Nintendo don't give a frak anymore to send Mario for the holidays. They know the fans will be there day one no matter what, and more importantly, they know they are gonna sell 15M+ of this game from... 2013 and after. Holiday season release not necessary for Mario!
I still can't decide myself on how Nintendo will handle NSMBMii. Bundled? Retail? Retail at launch? The NSMB2 decision for August seems to indicate that the timeframe don't count, what really matter is just to have the 2D Mario there, as a lifetime system-seller. This way, I would say, if they have the guts, they bundle it! (and that's the theory I defend since the beginning).
Oh, okay, since they all have the same name, then I guess that's okay.
Oh but wait, they are NOT THE SAME FUCKING GAME.
Get out of here with those bullshit excuses.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
No, you've sold your Ambassador status along with the 3DS. If you know the guy you sold it do, maybe he'll agree to transfer the stuff to your new 3DS if you get it, but both can't have it, no. And I'm not sure if you can transfer individually or if it's all or none.
I certainly don't think Nintendo is artistically bankrupt. They have some great teams. Proof in the pudding: Retro, Intelligent Systems, EAD Tokyo. Pikmin is an absolutely beautiful game and I'm sure the third installment will be as well. Nintendo supports developers like Good-Feel who has produced Epic Yarn and Shake-It!, and inevitable similarly great-looking titles in the future. It's just that NSMB's artstyle is somewhat disappointing to a LOT of people. Beyond that the games just don't introduce anything fresh and new to the series (beyond co-op of course).
The Pikmin games have a very similar artstyle, as does Metroid Prime and the two Galaxy games. I think the difference, though, is the environments. They were so radically different and it didn't even matter that the art style was similar. Don't you love it when a sequel is announced and it's just so evidently miles ahead of its predecessor from just a few images or a short trailer? I just don't get that with the NSMB series. I get the impression that they're not trying hard enough
p.s. An NoA rep said something to the effect that the Wii U Mario game will be based on what we saw at E3 last year. If this is true then yes, I will be back to express my disappointment (I'm so sorry Gaf... I JUST CAN'T HELP IT!). The thing is? Even though a lot of people here are complaining, it's in no way a sign that they don't like the franchise. If anything it's the exact opposite. They just want the games to be the best they can be. So let's not get mad at each other for having different opinions, because overall I guarantee you we're very similar in that we love playing Nintendo games. Besides, most people here will probably get the games regardless of whether they think the graphics look good or not.
I know for a new unannounced 3DS title too. That's another hint I guess.
If you can't talk for something new that Nintendo will show at E3 there isn't something for discussion.
They are no bankrupt because they still know how to make great games with great artstyle but only stupid because using a little bit better art style sure wouln't have affected too much in the development and everyone would've been happy
It may not be the end of the world for you but you know for some people the most important thing for a game is to have good graphics for someone else is sound or gameplay or artstyle
No one said that, YI is reported as example on how it was a leap from the predecessor in terms of art style
It's a news of some days ago that a new Mario 2d would be presented at e3 based on the demo showed last year
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
You're responding to hyperbole with more hyperbole. Very few people are saying "Nintendo is artistically and intellectually bankrupt" -- just that the NSMB style is getting old, and arguably wasn't all that great in the first place.
Nope. Miyamoto (apparently) said:
"Nintendo will present a new Super Mario for this platform, in which you will combine the TV screen with the screen in the controller."
When questioned about it, a NOA-rep said:
"In a recent interview, Mr. Miyamoto confirmed that a new Super Mario Bros. game for the Wii U system will be shown at this year's E3 Expo. This is based on the Mario experience that was demonstrated at last year's E3 Expo. We'll have more to announce about our plans for the E3 Expo at a later date."
Since we all know that a random NOA rep is going to say "Yeah, it's going to be a brand new/different game".
Of course, I'm expecting the exact same game, but people seem to put too much weight on what customer service representatives said about "news". Juts like there was no planned fix for Skyward Sword and there was no planned patch for Mario Kart 7.
It's not just popular though, it's the best-selling (non pack-in) mario game.
oh, bugger it. My point still standsMore like 26 millions
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Wow you are pissed.
I feel like Nintendo saw the massive online community of Mario game rom hackers, and realized if all these lone would-be developers do all this for free, just think what we could do making a business out of it. So the made a plain vanilla template Mario game, created the tools to edit it, and probably have a ton of guys in their offices now churning out NSMB levels in their spare time.
This is what I am trying to understand also. Mario platformers have long legs and sell for a long time. Not everyone has a 3DS right now, in fact many new 3DS buyers may just get one Mario platformer. I think Mario 3D Land should have had another Christmas on it's own. What should have happened was to release Mario for WiiU for this holiday and have NSMB2 for next years holiday. For this year Nintendo should have released Paper Mario, Animal Crossing and another game instead.
Yes, but when you take into account the Vita then momentum is a must.
No reason to get mad dude. We're all passionate Nintendo fans and we can debate this topic without getting out of hand. Remember: these opinions we have don't really matter. I agree with you that the art style is stale but we can be civil here
ALSO: Someone above made a good point: would we be disappointed if Nintendo kept releasing Yoshi's Island games with the same artstyle. Yes and no (at least for me). Let me explain: If Nintendo made a sequel to Yoshi's Island that had a beautiful yet similar artstyle to the previous game, I would be satisfied as long as the environments were fresh and new. If they kept on ripping the sprites from the previous title and just made new stages based off of them, then I would be disappointed because it'd feel like I'm just playing the same game over and over. Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 play very similarly but the two have a very unique world despite having the same artstyle. Same with the Pikmin games. NSMB is different in that it feels that the the game's sprites are being copy and pasted.
There's really not much else to discuss at this point other than the artstyle, since we know virtually nothing else about the game other than a few things like the return* of the Tanooki Suit. If we had a video with some music we'd probably be complaining that they're reusing the NSMB theme. Just realize this: any thread regarding NSMB will probably always be about the artstyle until the game comes out and people learn that it actually plays pretty well and is genuinely fun. Nothing wrong with that though. I actually like talking about it
*Not really the "return" of the Tanooki suit since it was heavily featured in SM3DL though. I hope Nintendo doesn't think fans will get nostalgic over this. What WOULD be cool is a brand new flying powerup.