New Super Mario Bros 2 announced for 3DS - August 2012
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
I like how the old 2D Mario games changed art style which made the game seem fresh after every new entry.
SMB1
SMB2
to be fair the real super mario bros 2 looked like this:
I'm excited. Made the mistake of writing off NSMBWii when it was announced, but I grabbed it when it came out and was blown away. Even if it's not the best looking series (though I honestly don't have a problem with the art style), NSMBW was just so damn good, and I found it to be hands down the best 2D Mario (no YI is not a Mario game.)
Really looking forward to this.
Really looking forward to this.
Mario games don't stop selling after the next one comes out. SM3DL will keep selling for a long time. Nothing wrong with getting a mega seller out as soon as possible, the 3DS especially needs one in the west.
Your point was terrible though. The game isn't constrained to what's in its name.
I've never liked the 2.5D side scrolling games they've done, I found them to be slower paced then the older ones and it just looks...boring.
And I'm guessing this one will also have that stupid audiance singing along with the music while the enemies dance to the beats while the audiance appluad as you do well shit that Nintendo love doing.
And I'm guessing this one will also have that stupid audiance singing along with the music while the enemies dance to the beats while the audiance appluad as you do well shit that Nintendo love doing.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Just to understand some of the philosophical foundations of the NSMB series. I think we can also look at the Animal Crossing series.
Both games have had minimal graphical evolution. Both have rather simple and dull (imo) visual direction. Even more interesting, is that I believe both teams have a large amounts of female developers working on them. Not to be sexist or even looking for stereotypes, but EAD (and SPD, and the rest of internal Nintendo) has hired an immense amount of females into the development sector. This might be indicative of some of their "pop-cuture" and "blue ocean" mass market success.
I can not think of any other developer that has done that.
Both games have had minimal graphical evolution. Both have rather simple and dull (imo) visual direction. Even more interesting, is that I believe both teams have a large amounts of female developers working on them. Not to be sexist or even looking for stereotypes, but EAD (and SPD, and the rest of internal Nintendo) has hired an immense amount of females into the development sector. This might be indicative of some of their "pop-cuture" and "blue ocean" mass market success.
I can not think of any other developer that has done that.
You surely revealed everything for something you can't talk.
3DS redesign at E3, eh? It could be possible.
Damn clappin ruined mah mayreeo
Yeah I think thats the biggest problem moreso than the bland artstyle. Its the same exact environments over the course of three (potentially four) games. I had the same problem with the Kingdom Hearts series because of the spinoffs that kept rehashing the same disney worlds. BBS and the upcoming 3DS title look pretty rad though.
That's not an excuse, its simple logic. Even if there are a million or 2 people who dislike the artstyle, the game sells to nearly 30 million people. There's no reason for them to risk losing a big part of their audience to appease the minority of fans who do not like the rather bland looking visuals. They are better served by adding new modes/online/etc, stuff that will keep people playing and possibly buying DLC rather than make changes to the visuals.
One thing I think they could do though is find some different environments to use. It would allow for more visually interesting stuff without messing with the current artstyle. SMB3 was particularly good about environment variety, I think that would be a game for them to look at and take ideas from.
I don't want them patronising me!
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I am quite neutral towards the series. I could not adamantly defend the quality of the level design, as my experience with the games has been rather inconsequential. But I am just using simple logic and business acumen towards the series. If the game is called New Super Mario Bros. 2 it is probably going to look like New Super Mario Bros. 1.
Does Metroid Prime 1 look like Metroid Prime 2 and Metroid Prime 3? Does Mario Kart DS look like Mario Kart 3DS?
I am just saying. The aesthetics and art style of NSMB has been chosen. It worked for the masses, failed for a small minority of elitist. It is a minimalist motif that looks simple and drab to me. But it sold more than anything else. More than any colorful Mario game before it. It is going to be used in the sequels.
Wait. What's the argument even. Is it that Nintendo should abandon NSMB? Or that NSMB should rehaul everything?
Interesting point. I do agree though: Animal Crossing is another game that is in need for some changes. Not necessarily graphical changes as that's part of what makes it so great but just basic fundamental changes that we as gamers generally expect from sequels. That's one of the things I'm so disappointed about in regards to the NSMB series. New elements would really make this great. So, with that said a lot of people here ARE right: we're complaining after only seeing a few images. For all we know there could be a slew of powerups and gameplay shifts that could really push the series forward. Until we know this, though, we can only discuss the four or so images we've seen. While climbing on spiderwebs seems great and all, it's just not really what I had in mind for innovation.
Angry Birds, while a series I don't care too much for, surprised me in that Angry Birds Space, while having an identical art style, was a much better product that its predecessor. I got the impression that they really tried to do something unique and it worked well. The environment was also different, which is ALWAYS a plus.
Woah, dude. Do you actually have legitmate inside knowledge? Because that's a pretty big bomb to be dropping in this topic.
Is this a real question?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
NSMB, the official "return of the Mario the mainstream knows and loves" got people to run out and buy Wiis in the first place. Game was a phenomenon.
It sold because it was a good game, and it had that long tail because of word of mouth. Your example is shit because there was a NSMB on the DS that mimicked that same performance, and the DS had plenty to play. I mean..... what the hell is this. The next and newest 'excuse'? That any game that performed well on Wii only did so because there was nothing else to play? Jesus Christ.
How would you explain the sales of the original DS version then? Regardless, a game doesn't move that many units just by convenience.
No reason to get mad dude. We're all passionate Nintendo fans and we can debate this topic without getting out of hand. Remember: these opinions we have don't really matter. I agree with you that the art style is stale but we can be civil here
ALSO: Someone above made a good point: would we be disappointed if Nintendo kept releasing Yoshi's Island games with the same artstyle. Yes and no (at least for me). Let me explain: If Nintendo made a sequel to Yoshi's Island that had a beautiful yet similar artstyle to the previous game, I would be satisfied as long as the environments were fresh and new. If they kept on ripping the sprites from the previous title and just made new stages based off of them, then I would be disappointed because it'd feel like I'm just playing the same game over and over. Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 play very similarly but the two have a very unique world despite having the same artstyle. Same with the Pikmin games. NSMB is different in that it feels that the the game's sprites are being copy and pasted.
There's really not much else to discuss at this point other than the artstyle, since we know virtually nothing else about the game other than a few things like the return* of the Tanooki Suit. If we had a video with some music we'd probably be complaining that they're reusing the NSMB theme. Just realize this: any thread regarding NSMB will probably always be about the artstyle until the game comes out and people learn that it actually plays pretty well and is genuinely fun. Nothing wrong with that though. I actually like talking about it
*Not really the "return" of the Tanooki suit since it was heavily featured in SM3DL though. I hope Nintendo doesn't think fans will get nostalgic over this. What WOULD be cool is a brand new flying powerup.
I actually would like to discuss gameplay. NSMBWii actually had some of the best platforming ever for a 2D Mario game, the core gameplay was at it's best. However I feel the NSMB series as a whole has been dumbed down in other areas in comparison to SMB3, SMW and Yohi's Island. There are not many stages that have verticality in the elvel design (this was a flaw for DKCR as well). Not as many secrets (remember the different ways to get to Star Road in SMW, remember the hidden level that gives you items in SMW). World Map isn't as expansive as SMW/SMB3, remember the different world in those games, they were actually memorable and everything was interconnected. More things such as switch palaces which unlock new blocks which let you access more secrets and makes things easier. Different coloured Yoshi's that have different effects with shells. Variety in stages, each world had it's own feel and enemy types. NSMB series doesn't do this much and relies on nostalgia instead of trying something new. Again I'd like to remind everyone the core gameplay in NSMBWii was improved with tons of variety in the core platforming gameplay, however it's everything else that is dumbed down in the series.
What? Are you implying the success of both NSMBDS and NSMBWii were because of game droughts? NSMBDS was on one of the best platforms last generation, and was one of the best selling games of that entire generation. As much as I find deep mechanics to be rather hollow in the NSMB series, you have to still be on something from 4/20 to fathom it was because of a lack of other games that this series did well.
This post is the exclamation point on the festival of stupid this thread has become.
Can't wait for some more 2D goodness. I'm shocked it's coming so soon. August is a great time for such a major release.
I think it's more of a "well if that's the way you want to do it Nintendo... *sadface*" sort of matter. Honestly I don't think I know what I'd want in place of NSMB, but it's still disappointing to see this level of visual homogeneity within a Nintendo franchise, on principle. I loved the first NSMB for it's artstyle, if only because I was blown away with how powerful the DS was in comparison to the GBA, as a longtime handheld gamer.
To be clear I'm only disappointed in this series. The rest of Nintendo's efforts lately and what's coming has more than convinced me they are on the right tracks.
Anyways, your bolded is correct.
I agree with this too. Basically the majority of people who bought the game were perfectly content with the graphical style. If Nintendo deviated too much from it it COULD in fact turn some people off. A game like Rayman Origins, while (objectively) beautiful, did not perform well despite being a very good example of what to do right when developing a 2d sidescroller. The PROBLEM however is that Nintendo isn't really doing much to push the series forward. I understand that the graphical style, for the meantime at least, will not be changing anytime soon but the least they could do (well, not the LEAST they could do) is add something that makes the games memorable. NSMB on DS is absolutely not memorable because it's basically a throwback game. Everything in it is referencing the older titles, even Petey Piranaha
Add some new environments, new gameplay mechanics and maybe update the graphics just slightly (not to mention compose a new theme) and there wouldn't be too much complaining. Again: we don't know if NSMB2 is going to change much or not, but as a fan I am somewhat convinced that there won't be a whole lot new.This is quite an "out-there" question in that it doesn't make much sense. lol
Remember the DS game sold just as well if not better (I can't remember which one sold more).
For all your mention of SMB3 and Yoshi's Island, every gameplay element you mentioned was actually from the best Mario platformer: Super Mario World.
I'm holding out hope for New Super Mario World for the WiiU.
you should stop that now.
We are an unstoppable force.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I'm split with you here.
NSMB, the Wii version especially, does not just rely on nostalgia in terms of design. It devises tons and tons of new, original platforming scenarios. It has a lot of specific situations that are somehow new to the Mario series despite how much has been tried before. The Wii game also creates significant new power ups for Mario himself that deserve to expand the canon.
The way Yoshi is used is interesting. Yoshi, instead of being a swiss army knife you take with you, is used in only a few stages because those stages are built around playing specific tricks using Yoshi (or a team of Yoshi riding players). This follows the general philosophy that no two levels should be the same. Every stage is built around a specific layout and idea.
I think the primary reason why NSMB Wii is not "out there" and bursting with other kinds of new ideas, is because it was supposed to be the reintroduction of 2d Mario to the mainstream. Hence, being called "New" Super Mario Bros. Not Mario 5, Return to Mario World, or something else. So it plays certain things safe in order to ease a wide audience in; familiarity.
There's so much crazy speculation and advance condemnation going on here due to four screen shots of NSMB2. Is it possible that it will be the kind of "soulless retread" people are hyped up and angry about without knowing anything? Sure. It's possible. I'll be disappointed in Nintendo too, if it is.
But we just don't know yet.
Nintendo has been pushing further and further with their games. Look at the initial reactions to 3D Land based on a single demo with four stages that were all early in the game. Nothing but months of condemnation of Nintendo for "clearly having no ideas and pushing this garbage down our throats again!" to paraphrase the gaming zeitgeist.
But then 3D Land comes out with surprises and content beyond what anyone would have expected, and an amount of it that hadn't been really done before in a Mario game.
What if NSMB2 follows the new paradigm of a Special World-based 2nd Quest for instance?
Cynicism is completely out of control in here.
Yes, but that's assuming 28 million even give a care about the style, which they don't. Some variety wouldn't spook anyone, and I don't see how this is quantifiable or an argument when no survey was conceivably done.
Assuming they would care, if they change the art style and 2 million of the 30 that liked the original have a violent objection, the same logic applies: "fuck 'em."
i was once someone who wanted a new super mario world. then they showed off new super mario bros. mii. and then new super mario bros. 2.
i have given up.
Metroid Hunter
Banned
It was like that in Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy 2 as well (unless you're talking solely about 2D, and in that case, you are right).
Well, Super Mario Bros. 3 looked pretty different from Super Mario Bros. 1, and they were part of the SMB series, so I'm not sure that's a valid argument.
Oh Grymm...
It was a good game.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
This is exactly what I want. I don't care what platform it's on. I just want it.
Yup. This pretty well sums up my dissatisfaction. I love NSMBWii, but man, I want some new New Mario, not more of the old New Mario. :lol
But it's the next logical step!
I've avoided this thread all day as all the blinkered ninty fanboys were ganging up on me.
But it looks like all the mario (and yoshi) fanboys have muscled in to even things out.
All I can say is that Nintendo better give us a Mario 4 as rumored to make up for this clusterfuck!
But it looks like all the mario (and yoshi) fanboys have muscled in to even things out.
All I can say is that Nintendo better give us a Mario 4 as rumored to make up for this clusterfuck!
Glorified G
Member
If the general public doesn't give a fuck about the art style, then what are the risks from changing the art style?
This is exactly it. 100%
These are just soulless retreads and raping of our childhoods.
Give us a new 2D mario game, not this buttcrap!
Give 2D mario to EAD Tokyo and don't let Miyamoto anywhere near it.
I don't think either of us can say what would affect the general public. If the series suddenly switches to Paper Mario visuals, or something that looks like Yoshi's Island, that would be detrimental sales wise. I think the public cares very much, the simplistic visuals are very nostalgic and appealing to a lot of people.
My point is, what is the upside for Nintendo to muck around with the visual style? Other than to appease a few people like us, it doesn't seem like there is any.
However, that was during a time when there were not multiple different Mario series for Nintendo to test different visual styles. Don't forget that SMB2 sold comparatively much less than the 1st or 3rd games. Now they have the resources to simply make a new side series without risking the money maker.
People are complaining about the graphics NOT THE GAMEPLAY
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Yeah, I just meant 2D.
Another point, aside from Yoshi being situational in NSMB, the other Mario power ups returned to being free form (and this trend continued in 3D Land).
Does make me wonder if future full 3D games will indeed see the return of freeform power up usage.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
And you're calling everybody else "fanboys".
It's wild finger pointing and "raping my childhood" emotes like this that make fans look like fanboys and gamers look dumb.
And saying "give it to EAD" and "don't let Miyamoto near it" is kind of hilarious. It's like "I want to go to the chocolate factory but hate that stupid Willy Wonka! I want nothing to do with him!"
I wish they would. It was always empowering when you could carry over your items from level to level in the 2D games, along with Yoshi. I understand the game design intentions behind not doing it, but I kind of miss the freeform experimentation that's been lost with the 3D games starting with Galaxy. They are among my favorite games ever, but there's little doubt that each level is intended to be played one way and that's it.
Meanwhile, I'd argue that the older 2D Marios (and Mario 64 if the speedrun scene are any indication) offered more freeform experimentation with achieving goals.
This thread really hasn't been that stupid, honestly. There's been some good discussion on the merits of gameplay and graphics. Very few people are actually trashing the NSMB series as a whole. The worst posts have been from those assuming that it's been so.
Nocturnowl
Member
Vertical level design is pretty frequent, tower stages are always vertical for one and they appear more than castles. Though outside of the towers it's slim pickings for NSMB Wii, the DS one had a few that I remember though, the propeller platforms that were the precursor to the propeller suit being the main cause for this, stages with that mechanic were often vertical based, the volcano stage where you could leave through one side of the screen and pop out the other is a good example.
No, not at all he is not wrong but it just doesn't add nothing to the discussion...
NSMBW it's still an above average platform but surely isn't a game that is worth 20+ million copies sold due to obvious lack of things...
Also it was on the Wii and it was released in 2009, after 2008 all above average games on the Wii were/are pumped up like hell due to lack of really good games on the lineup so it sold because of it and because it's called Mario.