Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Beta Thread of key begging

boris feinbrand said:
But right now the Scouts can't do that. The cloak is pretty much a huge poster sign to reveal your position. Scouts can't scout as they have no real gadget to do that, they are inferior to both the power of the Rifleman class, and the team role of the Engineers.

I agree that Scouts shouldn't be the killcount class. I guess no one asks for that, but at least give Scouts anything to help the team. Anything at all. Make them integral to teamplay instead of completely obsolete.

If they cut out the scouts, nothing would change. Nothing.

As for my suggestions to balance the three classes:

Rifleman

Body armor be part of their equipment/instead of frags.
Lower the Area of Effect on Frags by at least 50% as well as their lethality range to 60% of their current range.
Alternatively make Grenade throwing a more time consuming action, to make their usage a more strategic element instead of a twitch reaction.
Lower the base damage of ARs by 1/3
Lower the initial accuracy rate on ARs when snapping into ADS for the first 0.30 seconds
Lower long range accuracy.
Increase the time it takes to go from 3rd person into ADS
Crank up Recoil on Fully Automatic Fire drastically.
Increase Recoil while Moving

Engineers

Increase Ammo for SMGs
Decrease the Sensor Grenade Radius
Cooldown for UAV spotting or Time limited UAV use (1 or 2 minutes) per life
1 UAV per team at any time.
Faster Objective activation for Engineers (about 50% faster than any other class)


Scouts

Better Camouflage that doesn't telegraph your position instantly. Same movement restrictions apply of course.
Access to team and objective centric gadgets. Either sensor grenades, jamming devices or mines. (claymores, emp, jammer, tazer, laser triggers) from the start of the progression tree.
Higher supression capabilities to support forward elements.
Ability to tag enemies on sight (with cooldown, 3 per minute max, tag lasts for 10 seconds after leaving line of seight)

General suggestions:

Losing ADS when shot or supressed,
lower hip fire accuracy for Snipers and ARs
higher hip fire accuracy for SMGs
Squad spawn not blocked by Intel from UAVs but by other means (maybe a gadget for Scouts or Engineers?)
Slower Movement according to equipment selected. (The more power, the slower the base speed becomes, blocking sprint at certain levels)
Better spawn exits with less chance of spawn camping (instant spawn switch or additional alternative spawns on other sides of the maps)
Moving objectives away from spawns.

After playing the Beta extensively I still stand by my assertion. The basic gameplay is incredible. It's the best playing Ghost Recon so far. Yet the added clutter and class system is currently broken and needs serious fixes before release.



The SP holds up better than the MP graphically, but concerning GRAW2 being outdated

In terms of basic controls and animation, absolutely. In terms of balance and as a tactic shooter, GRFS currently doesn't even hold a candle to GRAW2s MP.
If they fix the balancing issues though GRFS could become vastly superior in that department as well (hell a barebones mode with no drones, no Augmented REality crap, no camouflage for scouts could allready be vastly better)
Click to expand...

Agree with everything but rifleman's armor being gear/equipment. What would even be the point in wasting a slot on it when everyone will just have armor piercing rounds equipped anyway?


And yeah thats what I was talking about in GRAW2 feels like a robot or something in the controls and animation, just feels stiff and unresponsive.
never really noticed that back then and didn't realize till now what a jump FS is in that department.
 
Razgriz-Specter said:
Agree with everything but rifleman's armor being gear/equipment. What would even be the point in wasting a slot on it when everyone will just have armor piercing rounds equipped anyway?
Click to expand...


It was an idea for a power/defense trade off. You want grenades? Good, but you only have standard health, while chosing the Body Armour would double your health but slow you down and you can't have grenades.

Right now Rifleman have both double health (on Torso) and Grenades, so my suggestion aims at breaking up that ridiculous combination.

I guess it would be enough to seriously nerf the grenades though.
 
Would anyone be interested in the 360 beta? Not sure if it is still active but last week I got some codes but I don't own conviction on the 360. Funny enough I just got a PC code though.
 
Anyone figure out how the point system works? I know 100 points is awarded for every objective but how do you get the single digit points.
 
Anyone still looking for a beta key on 360 can enter to win one by following @XKFans on Twitter and RT'ing their contest tweet. The winner will be selected in a few hours.
 
boris feinbrand said:
Balance changes
Click to expand...

I'd like to point out how crazy it is that we're talking about balancing a game without access to the entire sandbox. And don't get me wrong, I more or less agree with what you're saying. But look at what we're all trying to do here. You're essentially trying to balance several different gameplay sandboxes here. You're taking a class that could have vastly different abilities depending on the unlock level, and balancing it against 2 other classes, that can also have wildly varying abilities depending on the level. Even assuming that you're trying to balance straight across levels, i.e. level 1s vs other level 1s, max levels vs other max levels, and everything in between, that is INSANE.

Balancing is really really really REALLY hard, even just in a strict sandbox like Starcraft for example (i.e. everyone comes to the table equal).

Taking one game and trying to balance it at all these different points along the progression curve is madness! And remember I agree with your recommendations! But think of what you're trying to do! You haven't even played a one, single, match with all the toys yet! How can we even make these judgements! And this doesn't even take into account level disparities!

And again, I agree with you. In the end, you have to make your call based off what information you have in front of you. I'm just hoping there's some acknowledgement out there of how fucking crazy this is.

And I don't want to say it's impossible to enjoy the game or anything. But should they even listen to us? Do we really know enough to understand the effects of our own suggestions? I don't know! This hurts my brain!
 
PedroLumpy said:
I'd like to point out how crazy it is that we're talking about balancing a game without access to the entire sandbox. And don't get me wrong, I more or less agree with what you're saying. But look at what we're all trying to do here. You're essentially trying to balance several different gameplay sandboxes here. You're taking a class that could have vastly different abilities depending on the unlock level, and balancing it against 2 other classes, that can also have wildly varying abilities depending on the level. Even assuming that you're trying to balance straight across levels, i.e. level 1s vs other level 1s, max levels vs other max levels, and everything in between, that is INSANE.

Balancing is really really really REALLY hard, even just in a strict sandbox like Starcraft for example (i.e. everyone comes to the table equal).

Taking one game and trying to balance it at all these different points along the progression curve is madness! And remember I agree with your recommendations! But think of what you're trying to do! You haven't even played a one, single, match with all the toys yet! How can we even make these judgements! And this doesn't even take into account level disparities!

And again, I agree with you. In the end, you have to make your call based off what information you have in front of you. I'm just hoping there's some acknowledgement out there of how fucking crazy this is.

And I don't want to say it's impossible to enjoy the game or anything. But should they even listen to us? Do we really know enough to understand the effects of our own suggestions? I don't know! This hurts my brain!
Click to expand...

Grenades are still OP. ;)

But yeah, it's hard to call for balance when we can't test everything.
 
DTKT said:
Grenades are still OP. ;)

But yeah, it's hard to call for balance when we can't test everything.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, my intent wasn't to say anyone is wrong (more likely people are right), but the whole situation seems so bonkers. I ... just, even if I feel some balance thing should certainly change, how confident can I really be? How confident should I be? Imagine judging TF2 without knowing Snipers exist or some nonsense like that? Known unknowns and unknown unknowns or whatever right?
 
PedroLumpy said:
Just to be clear, my intent wasn't to say anyone is wrong (more likely people are right), but the whole situation seems so bonkers. I ... just, even if I feel some balance thing should certainly change, how confident can I really be? How confident should I be? Imagine judging TF2 without knowing Snipers exist or something nonsense like that? Known unknowns and unknown unknowns or whatever right?
Click to expand...

Right. But from what I know, we have access to all the different classes for now. We at least judge how they work and interact with each other.
 
DTKT said:
Right. But from what I know, we have access to all the different classes for now. We at least judge how they work and interact with each other.
Click to expand...

Indeed, you should judge it with the information you have. The experience you're playing now is the experience you're getting and it doesn't get a free pass because of what might be coming in the next unlock or whatever. I'm just saying the situation you guys are in is fucking bonkers. You're just doing what you can with what you got.
 
boris feinbrand said:
It was an idea for a power/defense trade off. You want grenades? Good, but you only have standard health, while chosing the Body Armour would double your health but slow you down and you can't have grenades.

Right now Rifleman have both double health (on Torso) and Grenades, so my suggestion aims at breaking up that ridiculous combination.

I guess it would be enough to seriously nerf the grenades though.
Click to expand...

I think grenade and AK/ACR nerf would be enough imo.
 
How come i'm not getting my 3 beta codes from ubisoft? I downloaded the game from my SC conviction

I want to give those codes to my friends so I can have somebody to play with but I havent gotten an email.
 
smik said:
GR:FS needs a REGION FILTER badly (with options and preferences, eg local,quick.worldwide) , any word of this being implemented?

it desperately needs it, i have a 30mb d/l 1mg up so its not my connection, to many times i get into games that are way to laggy, people are floating all over the place who you cant shoot.

get it right ubisoft and make sure its ready on release day as it could hurt the player base.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a region filter would be dandy. I have been connected with my fellow countrymen about half of the time, so at least it's not all over the joint. The main problem right now is the netcode and the ridiculous lag. Grenades can be fixed with a patch; fundamentally shitty netcode can not.
 
PedroLumpy said:
I'd like to point out how crazy it is that we're talking about balancing a game without access to the entire sandbox. And don't get me wrong, I more or less agree with what you're saying. But look at what we're all trying to do here. You're essentially trying to balance several different gameplay sandboxes here. You're taking a class that could have vastly different abilities depending on the unlock level, and balancing it against 2 other classes, that can also have wildly varying abilities depending on the level. Even assuming that you're trying to balance straight across levels, i.e. level 1s vs other level 1s, max levels vs other max levels, and everything in between, that is INSANE.

Balancing is really really really REALLY hard, even just in a strict sandbox like Starcraft for example (i.e. everyone comes to the table equal).

Taking one game and trying to balance it at all these different points along the progression curve is madness! And remember I agree with your recommendations! But think of what you're trying to do! You haven't even played a one, single, match with all the toys yet! How can we even make these judgements! And this doesn't even take into account level disparities!

And again, I agree with you. In the end, you have to make your call based off what information you have in front of you. I'm just hoping there's some acknowledgement out there of how fucking crazy this is.

And I don't want to say it's impossible to enjoy the game or anything. But should they even listen to us? Do we really know enough to understand the effects of our own suggestions? I don't know! This hurts my brain!
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying but you can look at the full progression map and extrapolate from the data we have to see what's going to happen. Scouts just don't have a toolset that makes them competitive with Riflemen or Engineers. Wow?? Scouts get an optical attachment that can spot when you ADS on someone? Guess what? Engineers have sensor grenades that cover half the map and UAVs that can hide on roofs and spot people. Riflemen can resupply thermonuclear grenades and sensor grenades.

It's cool that you can camo and camo while crouch moving at level 28 (uses equipment slot) but how much does that really help? It's EASIER to spot the camo compared to the regular draw of other characters just because of the draw distance. CAMO is perfectly drawn at all distances so I can see you moving. You aren't spotted by UAV but you're a huge target to any human player with eyes (read: everyone on the other team).

The fact that you can't get spotted by sensor grenades and UAV is great but when it comes down to it, what advantage is that supposed to give you? You can move closer and create a spawn point for your team? OK.. they spawn on you and are instantly detected.... niiiice here comes the grenade!

I think there are some fundamental balance problems that stick out like sore thumbs even before you have a chance to play the fully unlocked game. The fact that some of the most powerful equipment is locked away at level 28+ and we can't access it yet doesn't excuse that it is unbalanced. BTW that kind of unlock system just creates artificial skill gaps that shouldn't exist in this type of game imo.


PedroLumpy said:
Just to be clear, my intent wasn't to say anyone is wrong (more likely people are right), but the whole situation seems so bonkers. I ... just, even if I feel some balance thing should certainly change, how confident can I really be? How confident should I be? Imagine judging TF2 without knowing Snipers exist or some nonsense like that? Known unknowns and unknown unknowns or whatever right?
Click to expand...


The difference is you have the entire progression map available to you right now.
 
PedroLumpy said:
I'd like to point out how crazy it is that we're talking about balancing a game without access to the entire sandbox. And don't get me wrong, I more or less agree with what you're saying. But look at what we're all trying to do here. You're essentially trying to balance several different gameplay sandboxes here. You're taking a class that could have vastly different abilities depending on the unlock level, and balancing it against 2 other classes, that can also have wildly varying abilities depending on the level. Even assuming that you're trying to balance straight across levels, i.e. level 1s vs other level 1s, max levels vs other max levels, and everything in between, that is INSANE.

Balancing is really really really REALLY hard, even just in a strict sandbox like Starcraft for example (i.e. everyone comes to the table equal).

Taking one game and trying to balance it at all these different points along the progression curve is madness! And remember I agree with your recommendations! But think of what you're trying to do! You haven't even played a one, single, match with all the toys yet! How can we even make these judgements! And this doesn't even take into account level disparities!

And again, I agree with you. In the end, you have to make your call based off what information you have in front of you. I'm just hoping there's some acknowledgement out there of how fucking crazy this is.

And I don't want to say it's impossible to enjoy the game or anything. But should they even listen to us? Do we really know enough to understand the effects of our own suggestions? I don't know! This hurts my brain!
Click to expand...

I made these suggestions after playing the beta for more than 10 hours and about 50+ full matches. I made all of my suggestions based on personal gameplay experience within the beta. I know that balancing is a hard task. And it looks to me that the developers might have bit off more than they can chew, as the core gameplay itself feels very solid. It's all the clutter that is added on top that currently ruins the class system.

You don't need to know everything about the game to realize that the current state is unbalanced and heavily biased towards the Rifleman class. From Experience points to relevant actions during matches, no other class can currently compete on any level with
the juggernaut that is the Rifleman class.

I trust the development team to take the suggestions into account and maybe get some new insight and real world feedback. I talked with one of their designers last year during my hands on at Gamescom, and from the discussion I know that they have the right goal in mind, and a Beta is the best way to gather such information. You can test a game internally all you like. Everyone who plays it will play it according to the design paradigms established. It's a preconceived thinking pattern that is almost impossible to avoid. But, during a Beta it becomes clear if the average gamer population is willing to play the same way.
And the GRFS Beta has so far proven that the game needs various tweaks to work in the hands of gamers. Unlike developers, gamers tend to find exploits a lot faster and often mutate an intended gameplay into something very ugly.
 
eek5 said:
*Stuff*

The difference is you have the entire progression map available to you right now.
Click to expand...

Think of it like this. You know the scout can moved while cloaked at some point, but how visible is it while moving? Is it better while crawling? You can certainly make decent guesses, but you never reeeeeally know how it'll play out until you've played with it. A bunch. Would you have guessed when you first learned about scouts cloaking that they would be so easily seen? Probably not, who would guess the invisible dude is visible? The point is that it's hard to say how things will play out until you're there using them.

But again, that does not mean you shouldn't try. Your experience now, at level 1 or level 50, is the experience your playing with, and is subject to critique. Who could reasonably suggest that you should suffer through unbalanced crap in low levels because in the higher levels everything 'works out'? That's crazy.


boris feinbrand said:
*snip*
Click to expand...

Like I said, I would probably agree with you, and I totally believe you should make your suggestions. Simply put, I was stating that balancing a game like this from level 1 through to level 50 seems crazy crazy crazy hard. Something like tweaking the AR may fix things in the early going, but how does that affect the level 50 matchup? The level 30 matchup? It's quite the rabbit whole to go down.

But in the end you are right to want a balanced experience all the way along as you play. So go for it, I wouldn't want you to hold back because of what may be unlocked later on.
 
360 beta code for Xbox 360 for first person who post a picture of them holding a 360 remote with a different colored battery pack with their screen name.

just trying to think of something different
 
PedroLumpy said:
Like I said, I would probably agree with you, and I totally believe you should make your suggestions. Simply put, I was stating that balancing a game like this from level 1 through to level 50 seems crazy crazy crazy hard. Something like tweaking the AR may fix things in the early going, but how does that affect the level 50 matchup? The level 30 matchup? It's quite the rabbit whole to go down.

But in the end you are right to want a balanced experience all the way along as you play. So go for it, I wouldn't want you to hold back because of what may be unlocked later on.
Click to expand...

I personally believe that the unlock system should be scrapped completely. This is a class based shooter, so it is highly counter productive to hide key class features behind an arbitrary progression tree.

It's one of those modern must have Bullet points to trick people into thinking that your game has more content than it does. It's a cheap ploy to keep as many people as possible playing for a longer time to maximize the potential DLC audience.

I would be ok with weapon and uniform unlocks. But gadgets and basic things like Claymores and Drones should be there from LV1.
 
cool_dude_2049 said:
360 beta code for Xbox 360 for first person who post a picture of them holding a 360 remote with a different colored battery pack with their screen name.

just trying to think of something different
Click to expand...

20120423211027.jpg
 
PedroLumpy said:
Think of it like this. You know the scout can moved while cloaked at some point, but how visible is it while moving? Is it better while crawling? You can certainly make decent guesses, but you never reeeeeally know how it'll play out until you've played with it. A bunch.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying but the camo is flawed on a really basic level and building out on that flawed base won't suddenly fix it. The issue is the way the active camo works makes it stick out like a sore thumb.

Keep in mind that moving while camo'd requires you to give up your equipment slot. Engineers can get UAVs, jammers, turrets, etc. in their equipment slot. Riflemen can get ammo boxes. These are HUGE! So the argument that all three classes somehow end up being balanced at some point in the game hinges on the whether or not being able to prone crawl or crouch walk while camo makes as big of an impact as restocking grenades, jamming intel, turrets, UAV.

Based on what we know (camo doesn't really blend you into the environment very well), I think it is safe to say that the scout class just isn't up to par. Now, of course this whole discussion goes back to Razgriz's theorycrafting that scouts should just sneak up to objectives and be some kind of spawn point for people (which I don't think makes sense because you can SEE cloaked people from UAV even if you can't spot them and people spawning in will get detected).

Now we move on to discuss things we have no experience with but the only other major unlocks scouts seem to get is a scope that lets them spot (something that engineers do a much better job of) and eventually claymores which can help a lot.

Honestly I kind of think they should get claymores instead of flashbangs. One of the early level problems that sniper-scouts have is that they have to stay still to activate camo which leaves them vulnerable to getting flanked.


boris feinbrand said:
. But gadgets and basic things like Claymores and Drones should be there from LV1.
Click to expand...

Not only are these things unlocks but a lot of them are DECISION POINT unlocks where you can only pick one of them and be stuck with that until you decide to reroll. I think this is a terrible idea as it limits the amount of options you have to play tactically.

For example if you had an engineer build with UAV and you were spotting the other team, clearing them out but you couldn't capture the point in time but all your teammates also speced for UAV you'd be boned. If you had options available to you, one person could spot, the team could clear them out and someone with a field computer could cap it faster before the other team could reinforce.

When the unlock system is detrimental to the fundamental gameplay it needs to be scrapped or tweaked. The only purpose it serves right now is to artificially lengthen how long you "need" to play which shouldn't even be an issue if your core gameplay is fun.
 
eek5 said:
*snip*
Click to expand...

Just so we're clear I don't disagree with you on the whole scout cloak stuff.

eek5 said:
Not only are these things unlocks but a lot of them are DECISION POINT unlocks where you can only pick one of them and be stuck with that until you decide to reroll. I think this is a terrible idea as it limits the amount of options you have to play tactically.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how that decision point thing makes the game better. Why would you want to limit a players options within a class? Let alone making them choose without even really understanding the items they're choosing between?

Sure having to pick and choose between stuff for your loadout is interesting, but you should have unlimited loadouts (or respecs, whatever same diff) so you can bounce back and forth between different builds because that's FUN. The player experiencing everything your game has to offer is a good thing.

But hey, filling bars amirite?
 
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