Microsoft Surface Tablet announced

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Anyone else wish they went with the Asus-style dock instead of the kickstand/keyboard combo? I like Asus' concept more because it allows you to change the angle of the display. I haven't seen the kickstand used in any other angles other than 22°.

The membrane style keyboard only looks marginally more useful than a regular touchscreen keyboard. The type cover looks better, but the keys are really packed close to each other. It reminds me of a netbook keyboard. Top left:

about7.jpg


The Asus 810/600 in contrast, with a full size chiclet keyboard that has separation and a much larger trackpad:

DSC_6677_575px.JPG
 
Anyone else wish they went with the Asus-style dock instead of the kickstand/keyboard combo? I like Asus' concept more because it allows you to change the angle of the display. I haven't seen the kickstand used in any other angles other than 22°.

The membrane style keyboard only looks marginally more useful than a regular touchscreen keyboard. The type cover looks better, but the keys are really packed close to each other. It reminds me of a netbook keyboard. Top left:
maybe. i would have to have hands on time with the surface keyboards to see if it works for me though.
 
What exactly is the deal with the apps on the RT?

If I have Office for RT, do I also get Office on my PC/laptop?

Can anyone do anything on the RT Marketplace, or is it locked down similarly to the App Store? Could Apple bring iTunes to the RT, or will Microsoft force you to use their services? If iTunes was on the RT, would MS demand 30% of all in-app purchase revenue?
 
Anyone else wish they went with the Asus-style dock instead of the kickstand/keyboard combo? I like Asus' concept more because it allows you to change the angle of the display. I haven't seen the kickstand used in any other angles other than 22°.

The membrane style keyboard only looks marginally more useful than a regular touchscreen keyboard. The type cover looks better, but the keys are really packed close to each other. It reminds me of a netbook keyboard. Top left:

http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/publishingimages/new/about7.jpg[MG]

The Asus 810/600 in contrast, with a full size chiclet keyboard that has separation and much larger trackpad:

[IMG]http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/2018/DSC_6677_575px.JPG[IMG][/QUOTE]

I'm sure someone will make one if Microsoft doesn't.
 
Marketing it a lot isn't the same as marketing smartly though. This a relatively new kind of product so they have a lot of educating the public to do, and MS history is rife with incidents of them mounting massively expensive and flashy marketing campaigns, only to have the product go down in flames.

They should let the Xbox team market this. Those guys do a good job.

If this things performs well, it'll be awesome and it'll actually make me look at win8 phones. One of my goals for the year is to pick one platform and stick with it. iDevices mosh mashed with Windows products gets old afte a while.

Seeing that I'm already heavily vested towards the 360, they could really me over with this and a good phone.
 
Those look nice, but I would rather go for x86 transformer or wait for similiar THinkpad hybrid.
For one, with the stand in back and very light dock, there's no way this thing can hold on lap in a notebook mode. And second, those keyboards looks absolutely horrifingly uncomfortable to type at.

Still, good to see MS pushing their platform in such way. I wonder if it would be possible for some third party to make a more solid Transformer like dock for it.
They have a traditional physical keyboard available as well that is very much like the Transformer's.

Obviously you give up some space, but no more than on say an ultrabook.




How much will these be? Looks goddamn beautiful. I would dump my transformer in a heartbeat.. wow. Metro looks so at home on a tablet.
No prices announced, though they stated the RT rev will be competitive with ARM-based tablets, and that the Pro rev will be competitive with ultrabooks.




silly question but... what does RT in win RT stand for?
Technically, it's never been disclosed. So likely it means nothing

I'm sure internally it was initially called that because it runs the WinRT runtime (so redundant) ... but from a marketing standpoint, it's likely just some letters. This isn't the first time they've done that actually.




Thank you to everyone who answered my question. My followup question:

If Metro UI stays, how exactly does that work in installing and running other software? It no longer seems window-based (I mean literally resize able windows within the GUI and stuff). How do you launch something like Steam? How is something like mIRC displayed? Does Metro UI mess with how programs look/operate? What about the standard file system and windows explorer? Are those the same?

I'm just really confused, because I don't see how I could operate my desktop using the Metro UI. Are there any videos that might be able to explain to me how my classic windows experience can mesh with this UI?
Not to be rude, but why don't you check out the several Windows 8 threads at gaf instead of asking all of the info to be reposted in here?




What's the screen res on these things? Are these things clear black tech amoleds?
1366 x 768 for the RT version, 1080p for the pro.


They aren't AMOLED (they don't exist in this size currently), so it's some form of LCD. Also, 'clear black' is a trademark of Nokia. It's a polarization layer used along with the screens they purchase in order to improve contrast in bright conditions by rejecting some of the ambient light.




HP 2710p pre dates iPad by good 2 years. And it's largely the same as the new 2760p, save for Core 2 Duo instead of Core i5/7, plus added cap touch. I used 2740p running Win7 everyday for work and home, and it's an excellent tablet. So you are full of shit on this notion that somehow iPad magically changed the existing Tablet PC from crap to good.
What OS was that using? I think that's his point.

Though counter to his statement of it being shit, while the OS and apps weren't optimized for touch in the way we currently expect ... obviously it had plenty of uses that made it valuable for certain sectors. Art being one of them as I'm sure you can attest to ;)




That must be why tablets were so hugely popular before the iPad.
You're being insanely egocentric here. Yes obviously prior revs of Windows were not great as a consumer tablet ... they however were used in plenty of pro sectors.

They weren't all 'shit' as you'd like to claim ... simply not well-suited for mass consumer. As someone who's been involved in media, etc ... I don't get how you aren't aware of this.




Exactly. They need a Transformer-like keyboard/trackpad attachment.
It has one ... they showed it.
 
so, can someone say why one not bust an iPad instead of RT and not an ultrabook instead of the pro 8 version if the prices are going to be comparable? Specially for RT, because software development will at least initially be way behind the iOS.
 
This thread is moving fast and there isn't enough info in the op but the main reason I was staying away from iPad's is the app interface. It's nice for iphones and ipods but I really wanted more of a normal OS "desktop" interface. This is very intriguing to me but the two different versions of this RT and Win8 have me confused and I still wonder how much I can do on either. What i'm looking for out of a tablet is.

1) Can I run programs like GIMP, Photoshop or similar with a stylus?
2) Does it function like say a Win7 or real Win8 Desktop
3) Okay it has a keyboard, can i use Office type programs finally?
4) Steam will work? Seriously can I play low spec indie games or such like Terraria, Binding of Isaac, Fez,etc or Starcraft?
5) Xbox live integration? Can I play Zune Marketplace videos?
 
Yeah, I can already imagine horrible/hilarious ads with business men at the toilet stalls comparing tablets.

i think word to mouth would be the biggest win/lose for this device.

Shame the pro one will probably not come out before christmas.

Pretty sure pulling that out during a holiday family reunion would attract some attention.
 
This thread is moving fast and there isn't enough info in the op but the main reason I was staying away from iPad's is the app interface. It's nice for iphones and ipods but I really wanted more of a normal OS "desktop" interface. This is very intriguing to me but the two different versions of this RT and Win8 have me confused and I still wonder how much I can do on either. What i'm looking for out of a tablet is.

1) Can I run programs like GIMP, Photoshop or similar with a stylus?
2) Does it function like say a Win7 or real Win8 Desktop
3) Okay it has a keyboard, can i use Office type programs finally?
4) Steam will work? Seriously can I play low spec indie games or such like Terraria, Binding of Isaac, Fez,etc or Starcraft?
5) Xbox live integration? Can I play Zune Marketplace videos?

The answer to all your questions on the "pro" model should be a yes. Not sure about the Arm version.
 
This thread is moving fast and there isn't enough info in the op but the main reason I was staying away from iPad's is the app interface. It's nice for iphones and ipods but I really wanted more of a normal OS "desktop" interface. This is very intriguing to me but the two different versions of this RT and Win8 have me confused and I still wonder how much I can do on either. What i'm looking for out of a tablet is.

1) Can I run programs like GIMP, Photoshop or similar with a stylus?
2) Does it function like say a Win7 or real Win8 Desktop
3) Okay it has a keyboard, can i use Office type programs finally?
4) Steam will work? Seriously can I play low spec indie games or such like Terraria, Binding of Isaac, Fez,etc or Starcraft?
5) Xbox live integration? Can I play Zune Marketplace videos?

The RT version will probably be MS' version of iOS. The PRO version will be a fully functional PC and will be able to do all the stuff your desktop PC can do (with obvious limits as far as power goes with regards to gaming)
 
so, can someone say why one not bust an iPad instead of RT and not an ultrabook instead of the pro 8 version if the prices are going to be comparable? Specially for RT, because software development will at least initially be way behind the iOS.

The RT is going to toe to toe with the iPad. But I see the Pro version being a "2 in 1" style device. Its a tablet in tablet mode, and windows 8 full on when your sitting down with it.
 
What exactly is the deal with the apps on the RT?

If I have Office for RT, do I also get Office on my PC/laptop?

Can anyone do anything on the RT Marketplace, or is it locked down similarly to the App Store? Could Apple bring iTunes to the RT, or will Microsoft force you to use their services? If iTunes was on the RT, would MS demand 30% of all in-app purchase revenue?
Windows RT is Windows on ARM that has the metro ui + the desktop which is limited to only using windows utilities, office which is included and a version of IE 10 for the desktop, you can not install any other applications on the desktop in Windows RT so Apple could not bring iTunes to it. You would want to get a x86/64 tablet to use desktop applications. The only way to get metro apps on either arm or x86/64 is through the windows store. Just like iOS it is locked down and apps need to go through microsoft for certification. 30% is microsoft's cut, but when devs hit 20k sales microsoft only takes 20%. Microsoft does not take a cut from in app sales. Desktop apps on the other hand will only be listed in the store with a link to buy them from the developer's website, but they still have to meet some certification requirements. Metro apps can be used on up to 5 PCs i believe through one account. And no you would not get Office for your traditional PC if you bought a ARM tablet that came with Office.

FYI Metro apps are cross platform between ARM and x86/64.
 
All Metro apps will run on X86/X64 processors running Windows 8.

I understand that much, but will I get a license that lets me run and install on both desktop and tablet without buying the same app twice? Is there a mandate about that either way, or is it going to be up to every single developer?
 
This thread is moving fast and there isn't enough info in the op but the main reason I was staying away from iPad's is the app interface. It's nice for iphones and ipods but I really wanted more of a normal OS "desktop" interface. This is very intriguing to me but the two different versions of this RT and Win8 have me confused and I still wonder how much I can do on either. What i'm looking for out of a tablet is.

1) Can I run programs like GIMP, Photoshop or similar with a stylus?
If it's Wacom, there is great support for 100% of art apps. If it's NTrig, the support is far less. I think there is working driver for Photoshop, but I don't there is one for GIMP.

2) Does it function like say a Win7 or real Win8 Desktop

All legacy app will work in desktop environment.

3) Okay it has a keyboard, can i use Office type programs finally?

Pro run ALL PC apps.

4) Steam will work? Seriously can I play low spec indie games or such like Terraria, Binding of Isaac, Fez,etc or Starcraft?

Pro runs ALL PC apps.

5) Xbox live integration? Can I play Zune Marketplace videos?

Probably.
 
I understand that much, but will I get a license that lets me run and install on both desktop and tablet without buying the same app twice? Is there a mandate about that either way, or is it going to be up to every single developer?
you can install your apps on up to 5 devices using the same account.
 
I understand that much, but will I get a license that lets me run and install on both desktop and tablet without buying the same app twice? Is there a mandate about that either way, or is it going to be up to every single developer?

I don't see why you would have to pay twice. In desktop PC, simply switch to Metro and run Metro apps.
 
The answer to all your questions on the "pro" model should be a yes. Not sure about the Arm version.
The RT version will probably be MS' version of iOS. The PRO version will be a fully functional PC and will be able to do all the stuff your desktop PC can do (with obvious limits as far as power goes with regards to gaming)

Wow. Thanks, i will be keeping an eye out for the price on the Pro version then.
 
I understand that much, but will I get a license that lets me run and install on both desktop and tablet without buying the same app twice? Is there a mandate about that either way, or is it going to be up to every single developer?

There hasn't been offical announcements yet , however do you have to rebuy an app that you have on your iphone to use it on your ipad ?
 
The only way to get metro apps on either arm or x86/64 is through the windows store. Just like iOS it is locked down and apps need to go through microsoft for certification. 30% is microsoft's cut, but when devs hit 20k sales microsoft only takes 20%. Microsoft does not take a cut from in app sales.

That's what I essentially meant, asking about iTunes. If Apple wanted to create an RT version of iTunes, could they do it? Would Microsoft certify it?

I kinda thought both the x86 and RT versions of Win8 were supposed to be about traditional PC open-ness. But now you're saying that RT is just as locked down as iOS? Is this correct?
 
They have a traditional physical keyboard available as well that is very much like the Transformer's.
Umm..no, Transformer is a laptop dock, this is a keyboard only, it won't hold down the weight of of the slate on it's own, it dosn't extend the battery life and the keys still look pretty bad (low travel, not enough space between them).

Altough my whinings are useless, I've realized there will be only 10 inches option avaible, so it's not for me anyway, as such size doesn't allow for comfortable full-sized KB. I will just wait for 13 inch transformer book or Thinkad hybrid, assuming they KB is improved compared to the 11 inch first Zenbook model I've tried.
 
I was thinking about the marketing for this product while sitting in the bus today. I thought I'd share because it's not like I'm ever going to say it anywhere else...

They need 3 pillars to this marketing strategy to cover the broad cross section that the functionality should appeal to.

1 is casual/lifestyle. Emotive stuff showing people using it in neat novel, interesting ways that others feel as they could use it as well.

2 is semi-technical/informed consumer crowd - show the history of device and functionality integration in a fun graphical manner (i.e. start with phonograph, go to CD player, goto MP3, go to Smartphone - even while other things like Cameras and film equipment are combining into it) - At the base of a huge branch of technology... is the Windows 8 Pro tablet - looking slim and sleek as shit - opens up.

3 is technical/maven crowd - advertised in PC magazines and sites like Anandtech. Full feature set shown, tables, comparisons, lists - overlaid over 'now you can do (insert Windows stuff & Tablet/phone stuff) with your tablet'.


Actually... what I want to know is... how tablet like is this thing really? Does it have 3G/4G connectivity? Cameras? GPS? Accelorometers?
 
That's what I essentially meant, asking about iTunes. If Apple wanted to create an RT version of iTunes, could they do it? Would Microsoft certify it?

I kinda thought both the x86 and RT versions of Win8 were supposed to be about traditional PC open-ness. But now you're saying that RT is just as locked down as iOS? Is this correct?
for the desktop? no, you can't install third part applications on Windows RT's Desktop. if they wanted to make a metro app, nothing is stopping them. since microsoft does not take a cut from in app purchases, stores are possible in the new environment.

And yes, since Windows RT only has the Metro interface, it is as locked down as iOS since you can only get those apps from the store. Desktop apps, which can only run on x86/64 machines (windows 8) are as open as ever, the metro apps on x86/64 are the same though, locked down.
 
That's what I essentially meant, asking about iTunes. If Apple wanted to create an RT version of iTunes, could they do it? Would Microsoft certify it?

I kinda thought both the x86 and RT versions of Win8 were supposed to be about traditional PC open-ness. But now you're saying that RT is just as locked down as iOS? Is this correct?

Win RT is more locked down than windows. We can't say its as locked down as IOS . We will have to see what happens. I think MS is adament on making it a walled garden for phones / tablets that grandma and grand pa don't get viruses and other things . The only way to get software on the RT verison is to buy it on the store
 
That's what I essentially meant, asking about iTunes. If Apple wanted to create an RT version of iTunes, could they do it? Would Microsoft certify it?
I don't see why not. At least for music and videos. I mean, we already know Kindle is coming to Metro. I just hope Microsoft won't be as bad as Apple in this and they will allow in-ap purchases without gettng the cut of it for themselves.
 
I just hope Microsoft won't be as bad as Apple in this and they will allow in-ap purchases without gettng the cut of it for themselves.

Apple takes a cut of in-app purchases because if they didn't people could completely eliminate them as middleman by distributing free DEMO games/software that allow you to upgrade to the full version as an in-app purchase.

If Microsoft doesn't take a cut of in-app purchase, I suspect they will start to do so if this gets abused in the way Apple foresaw it being abused.
 
Apple takes a cut of in-app purchases because if they didn't people could completely eliminate them as middleman by distributing free DEMO games/software that allow you to upgrade to the full version as an in-app purchase.

If Microsoft doesn't take a cut of in-app purchase, I suspect they will start to do so if this gets abused in the was Apple foresaw it being abused.

That's a valid reason, but Apple abused it to squash the competition. THey don't even allow a link to website where you can buy a book afterall. I doubt Microsoft will ever become this bad.
 
New to the thread, but I was wondering why did they name this tablet as Surface? It confused the hell out of me when I think about the Surface table. Is the table still called Surface or is that abandoned as a product?
 
Apple takes a cut of in-app purchases because if they didn't people could completely eliminate them as middleman by distributing free DEMO games/software that allow you to upgrade to the full version as an in-app purchase.

If Microsoft doesn't take a cut of in-app purchase, I suspect they will start to do so if this gets abused in the was Apple foresaw it being abused.

Last Microsoft said that once someone sells over a certain amount the cut they take goes down.
 
So, what do the sales for android and apple tablets look like? How far behind is microsoft in comparison?
Microsoft is basically starting from scratch. Android has a decent chunk of the market but it's horribly fragmented with no real flagship or breakout product as yet. Apple has 68% of the market with iPad.
 
I hope the PC market will embrace the hybridization. Windows 8 allows for some crazy stuff.
I want a Transformer Book like ultrabook, one I can use as both slate and full blown laptop. and then, when I get home I want that slate to connect to monitor, while the dock becames stand alone keyboard for desktop use. And then I want to able to connect separate external gpu to it for gaming.
 
New to the thread, but I was wondering why did they name this tablet as Surface? It confused the hell out of me when I think about the Surface table. Is the table still called Surface or is that abandoned as a product?

Probably because it's a great name they hold the trademark to and it was being wasted on a device that wasn't consumer oriented and is rarely seen.
 
That's a valid reason, but Apple abused it to squash the competition. THey don't even allow a link to website where you can buy a book afterall. I doubt Microsoft will ever become this bad.

Can't you still sell whatever you want, so long as it's through your own infrastructure (your servers, your credit card services, etc)? I don't think they're taking 30% off when somebody buys a book with the Amazon app.
 
That's not anti-consumer, it's anti-competitive.

EDIT: Nice edit :)

... anti-competitive is kinda anti-consumer. I mean, if you limit our choices as a consumer - be they outlets from which I can purchase products, or types of products I can get, then that's pretty much going against my interests as a consumer.

Of course there are degrees of acceptable behaviour, but when it's transparently greedy or controlling, you've probably stepped over the line.

What apple has done is take bits of shit and put it in their sweet sweet candy - and unfortunately, most consumers don't notice or don't care.
 
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