MLS overtakes NHL and NBA as third-most attended league

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WTF? Do you live in Seattle? Walk around downtown during gameday. The city is full of fans!! And not fans you would expect. Male, female, families, varied age and race.

There are more people in the stadium on a gameday than people watching the team on tv. The fans they do have are dedicated and some of the best in the city for all sports but there aren't many people who care about the team outside of that dedicated bunch.

Or at least not many people who care enough to actually watch the games or seek out coverage about them on the radio or internet. The Seattle Times can't even justify the expense of sending the beat reporter to road games which should tell you how little attention the team gets by the city as a whole.
 
MLS also provides a much stronger fan community compared to other pro sports. You have the pre-game crawl here in Seattle and similar things in Portland.

I'm a huge Seahawks, Mariners, and formerly Sonics fan, but there was nothing like that for any of those teams.

Nah dog, Raiders' fans will transcend race, and socienomic backgrounds to beat the shit out of fans of the opposing team. And the whole city of Cleveland is still butthurt over Lebron.
 
I don't care about the MLS at all, but our stadium in Toronto built specifically for the team is lovely. It's no wonder people would rather be outside for a sporting event. If only we could get a good baseball stadium.
 
I went to a FC Dallas game in May and it reminded me of a ballet.

Players diving, prancing, it seemed very sureal. It's alot different live.

The stadium seemed half full, and it was very quiet.

It's not the edge of the seat game like hockey is.

Funny I talk about this now, my boss came into my office earlier today pissed that I'm writing off $300 in cab fare to get to Frisco from Fort Worth for the game.

Found a pic I took on my cell phone that day :

E6Lpk.jpg

Average FC Dallas home attendance:
2009: 9,883
2010: 10,617
2011: 11,954
2012: 13,255 (so far)

Hopefully this growth continues to approach the stadium's 20,500 capacity and hopefully scenes like the above will be a thing of the past some day
even though our lovely team is turrible
.
 
NHL tickets in Toronto, Montreal, New York, Chicago and Philadelphia are expensive as hell.

Basketball has a way higher top end.

Leafs Single Game Pricing:
BXS0H.jpg


Raptors Season Tickets:
BIEXi.jpg


(Sorry, Closest comparable data I could find).

Top price Leafs tickets are about $425/game and probably a little bit less then that for season tickets. Meanwhile the top price for a season ticket to the Raptors is slightly less then $1000/game with single game tickets likely being higher. It's mainly the courtside tickets which Hockey doesn't have but not exclusively. Basketball does have a way lower bottom end however. Well at least in Toronto.

Also I found this:

http://www.nba.com/raptors/tickets/dynamicpricing

LOL at this guy trying to say jacking up the price for Heat games is better for fans. Not that I dislike or disagree with dynamic pricing. If you are the original ticket seller, by all means get as much money out of the market as you can. Better you then scalpers but that video was still BS.

Wait, is this actual games attended or tickets sold? No way in hell TFC is averaging 87% attendance.


Attendance numbers are always tickets sold including comps, not paid tickets of people who actually showed up. Depending on the market, you could have a lot of comp tickets to make things sound better then they really are. The Gate is the only number that means anything.
 
Wait, are those capacities the sizes of the venues? Those are tiny aren't they? AFL games here can get up to 110,000.
Apples and oranges. Tackle football stadiums get pretty large here too. Your Melbourne Cricket Ground would only rank 7th here. Heck, it'd only be 4th in the Big Ten Conference. MLS is still minor in total revenue so it makes sense that they're so small.

Also, those "capacities" listed in yellow are only the capacity of the facility configured for association football for those teams. For instance, CenturyLink Field actually has a capacity for 67,000, but for Sounders games, they tarp off a fair number of seat to bring the official "capacity" down to 38,500.
 
I've gone to a few Dallas games as well. The environment at the stadium is lacking for sure. There's the "rowdy" section but that's most of the spirit. I think building in Frisco was a stupid idea.

Yeah, building in Frisco was a terrible idea, but there's great atmosphere if you sit in the supporter's group. Check out The Inferno's tailgate (half the time you won't even have to pay for a ticket, since they often have extras at the tailgate), get drunk, and sing your ass off.
 
Yeah, building in Frisco was a terrible idea, but there's great atmosphere if you sit in the supporter's group. Check out The Inferno's tailgate (half the time you won't even have to pay for a ticket, since they often have extras at the tailgate), get drunk, and sing your ass off.

At least it's not called Pizza Hut Park anymore.
 
There are more people in the stadium on a gameday than people watching the team on tv. The fans they do have are dedicated and some of the best in the city for all sports but there aren't many people who care about the team outside of that dedicated bunch.

Or at least not many people who care enough to actually watch the games or seek out coverage about them on the radio or internet. The Seattle Times can't even justify the expense of sending the beat reporter to road games which should tell you how little attention the team gets by the city as a whole.

Newspapers are dying and the Sounders' fanbase are in the demographic most likely to turn to online journalism. Sounder at Heart, the Sounders' SBNation blog, has more comments than a lot of the Big 4's blogs. The Sounders also routinely top the league in local ratings.
 
Good to hear.

I was recently in NY and was pleasantly surprised at the interest in the sport. It wasn't everywhere by any means but it was cool to see that there were a lot of people taking an interest. Bars and stuff always had the games on and they tended to be full. I popped inside a couple of times and a lot of the people following were Americans, not just tourists or immigrants.

Whilst I was there I attended a MLB game and I have to say the experience was so different from a football/soccer game. Over here in england fans just want to see the game and tend to be resentful towards all the add ons and commercialism which they try to push down your throat. It was really enjoyable though and everybody was on board, made me see all those things I thought were silly in a different way. I wonder if they have that stuff at the MLS games.

Anyway, glad soccer is getting bigger over there, or at least it seems like it is. It is a great sport and whilst I can see why it might not be a perfect fit with American culture/sports once you get into it and know what's going on...it can be very satisfying.
 
Fun sport growing number of immigrants watching the game with their kids.........profit. My nephew (8)can name names on rosters in lots of mls games.
 
Higher public interest is the sign of that changing.

The more attention it gets from the society as a whole, the more likely kids will be interested in continuing to play it through middle school and high school rather than choosing any of the other more popular sports, leading to a higher output of potentially great athletes.

It depends where that public interest is. Inner cities will keep going to basketball/football and the south will still treat football like a religion. The best athletes will keep going to those sports for the foreseeable future.
 
It depends where that public interest is. Inner cities will keep going to basketball/football and the south will still treat football like a religion. The best athletes will keep going to those sports for the foreseeable future.

I think concussion concerns in US football will steer a lot of athletes toward soccer.
 
I think concussion concerns in US football will steer a lot of athletes toward soccer.

Athletes don't care about that until they're 40 and retired and starting to feel some affects from it. It will probably scare some parents but kids will do what they want if the big schools keep waving those massive scholarships in their faces.
 
It depends where that public interest is. Inner cities will keep going to basketball/football and the south will still treat football like a religion. The best athletes will keep going to those sports for the foreseeable future.

Athleticism isn't fungible across the sports. A pro basketball player will not necessarily be good at soccer, or have the potential to be good at soccer, and vice versa. The best player in the world right now is 5'6". What American sport would Messi excel at? Don't you think there might be a Messi or two among 300 million Americans?
 
It's also just weird listening to the commentators. You have the one American guy calling it soccer than the other British guy calling it football lol

I hate hearing Americans not using collective singular when referring to teams. "England are looking defeated on the pitch right now." It ain't right... It ain't right!
 
Athleticism isn't fungible across the sports. A pro basketball player will not necessarily be good at soccer, or have the potential to be good at soccer, and vice versa. The best player in the world right now is 5'6". What American sport would Messi excel at? Don't you think there might be a Messi or two among 300 million Americans?

Apparently not because if he was good enough he'd be playing on our mediocre US squad. He either is playing some other sport or no sport at all, which would be wasting his talents if he's as good as Messi.
 
There are more people in the stadium on a gameday than people watching the team on tv. The fans they do have are dedicated and some of the best in the city for all sports but there aren't many people who care about the team outside of that dedicated bunch.

Or at least not many people who care enough to actually watch the games or seek out coverage about them on the radio or internet. The Seattle Times can't even justify the expense of sending the beat reporter to road games which should tell you how little attention the team gets by the city as a whole.
I doubt the TV ratings get 30k watching. The local station games air on has a reach of over 3.5 million, and games air on OTA TV (not cable). So thinking that less than the amount in the arena watching is kinda silly.

Seattle Times can't afford many things. Also the Sounders own team does a great job reporting themselves.
 
Apparently not because if he was good enough he'd be playing on our mediocre US squad. He either is playing some other sport or no sport at all, which would be wasting his talents if he's as good as Messi.
Are there any youth academies in the US that's even close to anything like what they have in South America or Europe? I'm talking about 8 year olds (and younger) leaving home to go to school and also be trained as footballers. Messi left Argentina for the Barcelona youth academy when he was something like 11 years old. Players don't develop playing peewee soccer.
 
I doubt the TV ratings get 30k watching. The local station games air on has a reach of over 3.5 million, and games air on OTA TV (not cable). So thinking that less than the amount in the arena watching is kinda silly.

Seattle Times can't afford many things. Also the Sounders own team does a great job reporting themselves.

The ratings for the Sounders are terrible compared to their attendance. If they aren't playing Portland, Vancouver or LA, 30K is about what it is. Shoot, the nationally televised game against Philly in May got 96K viewers in the entire country including Seattle.

The Seattle Times can afford to send a reporter on the road to cover the Storm and UW Womens basketball, if there was any widespread interest in the Sounders, they would be covering road games.
 
Are there any youth academies in the US that's even close to anything like what they have in South America or Europe? I'm talking about 8 year olds (and younger) leaving home to go to school and also be trained as footballers. Messi left Argentina for the Barcelona youth academy when he was something like 11 years old. Players don't develop playing peewee soccer.
No. You really have traditional schooling and extra curricular spots here. If someone is that gifted, they probably move to a prep school and are probably already on the radar of international clubs.
 
Are there any youth academies in the US that's even close to anything like what they have in South America or Europe? I'm talking about 8 year olds (and younger) leaving home to go to school and also be trained as footballers. Messi left Argentina for the Barcelona youth academy when he was something like 11 years old. Players don't develop playing peewee soccer.

There's this place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMG_Soccer_Academy

And most MLS squads have their own academies, but a lot of talent still falls through the cracks. As you say, Pee Wee soccer isn't the best for player development, but neither is a lot of what happpens in the States.

1.)High school and college soccer have always hindered development (thankfully high school soccer just recently started to be cut out of the picture by having the academies play 10-month seasons)
2.) Our coaching infrastructure is nowhere near as good as elsewhere
3.) The Academies that do exist often put more emphasis on winning immediately against other youth teams rather than on long-term player development.
4.) The American game is more physical than technical, and American coaches still focus on the athleticism that tends to work in American sports. Ironically, this means that soccer competes more with other American sports than it has to.
 
Just got back from the FC Dallas game and Pizza Hut Park was packed. Best attendance I have seen and I have been a season ticket holder for three years.
 
Just got back from the FC Dallas game and Pizza Hut Park was packed. Best attendance I have seen and I have been a season ticket holder for three years.

I watched it on TV and was pleasantly surprised. Was it somehow due to it being a 4th of July game?
It was a good game. A shame FC Dallas is still trapped in their losses/ties streak though.

Also, they thankfully got rid of the Pizza Hut Park name earlier this year. It's just FC Dallas Stadium now. :)
 
3.) The Academies that do exist often put more emphasis on winning immediately against other youth teams rather than on long-term player development.
That the thing they're changing here in Ontario. They're banning score keeping/win-loss records for all youth divisions under 13 years of age in the hopes it will help push coaches to develop players instead of focusing on winning games. We'll see if it does anything though.
 
Are there any youth academies in the US that's even close to anything like what they have in South America or Europe? I'm talking about 8 year olds (and younger) leaving home to go to school and also be trained as footballers. Messi left Argentina for the Barcelona youth academy when he was something like 11 years old. Players don't develop playing peewee soccer.

I'm not sure how the whole youth system works here in America exactly but I do know quite a few MLS players do residencey programs, but they start at 14 or 16 I think. Many of the Union players have talked about leaving home at 14-16 to live in Braidington Fl. at there program. Supposedly 90% soccer, 10% school. Alot of MLS teams too are actually developing there own academies.

My son is 11 and is a soccer fanatic, kind of what got me following more and more, his steps have gone...

4 years old instructional, inter-town play on teams from 5-8yr old, 8-11 years old travelling soccer (we traveled up and down NJ and play teams as well as tournaments)
Since 8 when travelling started its also been soccer 11 months a year and Futsal in the winter, as well as soccer camps and such.

Now that he is 11 tho the rules have changed and so have the "competitiveness".
The kids who played from age 4 to 11 who were never really good now move onto another sport, or play recreation or a lower level of travel.
Now they play 11 vs. 11, under age 11 its 8 vs 8, the halfs are longer etc...
And it is no longer travel or recreation but instead now my son plays for a local academy.
Basically his team is made up of 18 kids from across our whole county. No more walk ons, no more first year players. Only the best kids who attend tryouts get on the team. Instead of my son being stuck at forward cause he was better then 90% of the kids he faced, he now is on an even field with players like himself all the time and sees time on defense as well as the mid.


Maybe its the access to the internet that his helped him become such a fanatic, as well as channels like GolTV and Fox Soccer and the rise of televised MLS. I kno as a child/teen the best we could hope for was some randomly televised game, but for him he's been able to come home from school and see a game alway on or be able to access a million replays or news stories via the web.

That the thing they're changing here in Ontario. They're banning score keeping/win-loss records for all youth divisions under 13 years of age in the hopes it will help push coaches to develop players instead of focusing on winning games. We'll see if it does anything though.

Not sure how the rest of the states work but here in Jersey at 11, my sons age, all bets are off. Cardings have started, 11 vs. 11, run up the score, slide tackles etc..
Under 11 there was basically no tackles on the ground, a kid had to basically get into a fight to see a card, plus teams would be fined if they scored after leading by 5.
My sons team, if they had a 5 goal lead, would basically play passing drills till the whistle blew or it was a $200 fine for the club per goal.
 
MLS needs promotion/relegation. There's more than enough cities in the US to have 60+ teams.
That would be fun for fans, but the promotion/relegation model wouldn't work for advertisers in the US, at least not right now. It is a financially ridiculous idea to American advertisers that you could spend millions for endorsements on a team, lets say the Red Bulls, and then see them dropped down to a place where virtually no one with casual interest would be able to see them for potentially years.

If the league is still around in 20 years and had built more tradition and popularity with casual sports fans, then maybe the owners would consider it.


Anyway, as has mentioned before, the MLS is struggling to get a TV audience and still has a way to go in creating competitive academies for player development. It has come a long way though and is pragmatically adjusting like when the league realized it needed to contract a few teams and did so.

If you're interested in how close your city might be in getting an MLS team and the US game in general, there is fairly regular discussion of the subject over at the bigsoccer.com forums:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/forums/major-league-soccer.958/
http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/forums/soccer-in-the-usa.779/
 
Are there any youth academies in the US that's even close to anything like what they have in South America or Europe? I'm talking about 8 year olds (and younger) leaving home to go to school and also be trained as footballers. Messi left Argentina for the Barcelona youth academy when he was something like 11 years old. Players don't develop playing peewee soccer.

Not really, though Giuseppe Rossi was born in America and his Italian father would take him to Europe during the summer and have him play in Italian academies.
 
Another question, am i right in thinking footie/soccer is the most played sport in US schools? But loses out at Uni level

Men's soccer is a victim of something called Title IX which requires there to be an equal number of men's and women's sports at the college level. The only sports that actually make money for schools are men's basketball and football along with baseball (to a certain extent), so most of the other men's sports are quite fringe to keep costs down. Many school's have a women's soccer team but no men's team.

Really great news about the MLS.. I'm hopeful that Orlando City will become an MLS team in the future so I can have a team to root for. I've been following the Austin Aztex but they're quite far down the pyramid.
 
It's way easier to follow soccer now than it is 10 years ago. MLS is a growing league, but I think for it to blow up in the U.S., soccer needs a transcendent talent.

Dempsey's the closest thing we have, and good on him for what he did at Fulham this season, but he's not a top 50 player in the world unfortunately.
 
It's way easier to follow soccer now than it is 10 years ago. MLS is a growing league, but I think in order to blow up in the U.S., soccer needs a transcendent talent.

Dempsey's the closest thing we have, and good on him for what he did at Fulham this season, but he's not a top 50 player in the world unfortunately.

Donovan was supposed to be that guy for a while, and while he's good enough to play in the EPL, he's certainly not transcendent. He and Dempsey are the best we've got for now, I guess.
 
Donovan was supposed to be that guy for a while, and while he's good enough to play in the EPL, he's certainly not transcendent. He and Dempsey are the best we've got for now, I guess.

I do find it funny that Dempsey's miles better than what England's got right now on the wings.
 
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