UFC 148 |OT| Shattering the myth that is Anderson Silva - 7.7.2012
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abstract alien
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weekend_warrior
Banned
Silva did take 3 or 4 good punches and elbows the first round, but yeah, he stayed calm, never exerted too much energy, and maintained safe ground position. He's one of the very few fighters with the speed and power to KO opponents, but without a glass face to get KO'ed himself.
Few are giving Silva credit for his TDD in the second round, which is what really won him the match and doomed Sonnen.
They're blaming Sonnen for costing himself the fight by whiffing the spinning backfist without apparently realizing that it was all over for Sonnen when he was getting his takedowns stuffed in round 2, with Silva hitting him with clean shots before the big knee. Sonnen's spinning backfist attempt was a desperation move when he wasn't able to get Silva down and was getting hit.
Find a replay and go to about 3:50 in the second round. That was the beginning of the end. Silva and Sonnen both realize that Silva can in fact stuff Sonnen's takedowns, Silva starts taunting with his hands down and lands a beautifully accurate straight right to Sonnen's face, and Sonnen then gets desperate and the fight is soon over.
abstract alien
Member
Silva started using better TDD, but it wasn't necessarily the beginning of the end. Sonnen proved that he can take him down and keep him down, so we can't really say Silva would have successfully stuffed him for the remainder of the fight. Well, had it gone further. Silva made sure it didn't lol
That is exactly it.
You can see it in Sonnen's face after each stuff, and you can see when he realized that he was fucked and that is what made him break out of his gameplan.
People loved to talk shit about the rib last time, Sonnen loved to talk about the rib last time but Sonnen got reality checked and folded.
Yeah, it's not like Chael took him down at will in the first fight either. He was stuffed more often than not.
Nice win for Anderson but the hyperbole is getting a little out of control from UFC-GAF. It was looking exactly like the first fight until Chael spun on his ass, and making it pretty clear that Chael being able to wrestle Anderson was not due to some mysterious hib injury.
abstract alien
Member
That spinning elbow/backfist/whatever. Man what the fuck Sonnen...
His will was gone and he could no longer depend on his boosted testosterone level
Seriously, that has to be the biggest mental lapse in UFC history. That was completely outside of Chael's realm. Should've just stayed on his grind and worked TDs and strikes against the cage. You've got to think he's going to cringe every time he looks back at that.
Anderson guest character is the only way I'll buy that game, Sony.
He was practicing that very move before the fight.
He was practicing that very move before the fight.
That's kind of meaningless to say, because the fight didn't go further. Sonnen got his takedowns stuffed - his one meal ticket - and was subsequently TKO'd. These two things aren't coincidences. It would be like saying "well the fight would have gone differently if that one guy didn't get knocked out."
Sonnen only attempted the backfist because he was getting rocked and wasn't able to get Silva down. People keep going "why did he attempt that spinning backfist?!" Desperation moves in a fit of panic don't tend to be the most rational things. Literally right before Sonnen attempted the backfist, Silva had stuffed another takedown.
Chael is, and has always been, his own worst enemy. His losses are all related to him doing some stupid shit that he usually doesn't do and it costs him every time. All of his wrestling promos and bravado mask that he can't handle the pressure when it comes to the big wins. He could have won both fights if he didn't buckle under pressure and break his game plan and stop paying attention.
He cost himself both fights and will never be a top guy until he stops fighting himself.
He cost himself both fights and will never be a top guy until he stops fighting himself.
This whole conversation is indeed meaningless, but to say Chael panicked, was desperate, lost his will etc. because of 1 or 2 stuffed takedowns is pretty damn ridiculous. This rationale flies in the face of common sense in MMA.
Watch the first fight and get back to me. Did he land every takedown then? Has any wrestler landed every takedown they attempted? Do all wrestlers land every takedown on their path to victory? It's a grinding style.
I'm not going to attempt to pretend to know what was going through Chael's head when he thought he was a martial arts cyclone, but I'm willing to bet "my wrestling has failed me after these 2 stuffed TDs" was not one of them.
abstract alien
Member
Just...I don't know. It had to be a literal mental lapse. Not only was it outside of his realm, but he threw it while Silva was right in the middle of his "counter" stance. Every time Silva gets in that stance(hands down, standing straight, minimal foot movement, etc) he is practically asking you to give him a highlight real moment. Even if Chael figured he would test his luck, why would he pick THAT move? Shit is just unreal how bad of a decision it was. Maybe if he was getting his ass kicked I could understand pulling something just to do it, but when you are ahead a round and likely to get your win(if you win) by decision anyway?
My God :^l
A couple of stuffed takedowns on a guy that has proven he can take you down and keep you down the round before does not equal "Sonnen is fucked" is all I'm saying. Nothing more.
Exactly.
abstract alien
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TheKaeptain
Banned
The only person not making excuses for Chael is Chael. Just saying.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Saw this on another forum and it made me laugh
abstract alien
Member
That is...actually kind of accurate.
Yep. Even in the presser after the first fight, he pretty much manned up and said "Silva was better than me tonight."
Yeah, he spent the next two years saying other things, but still
Yep. Even in the presser after the first fight, he pretty much manned up and said "Silva was better than me tonight."
Yeah, he spent the next two years saying other things, but still
parrotbeak
Member
It's this kind of highlight reel finish that puts Chael leagues ahead of Fitch or Guida or any of the grinders that he's always compared to. Let's see Fitch throw crazy spinning shit and then get tko'd. That's the same kind of finish that led to Faber being able to carry an entire ppv all by himself.
Yep. Even in the presser after the first fight, he pretty much manned up and said "Silva was better than me tonight."
Yeah, he spent the next two years saying other things, but still
When you can separate showman Chael and the genuine Chael it's hard not to like the guy. Some people are easily whipped into a frenzy and incapable of distinguishing the difference between the two. Some prime examples of these marks in this thread.
I'm a fan of the showman Chael, not his fight style. He's bringing meaning back to fights in an era where UFC has pitted Joe vs. Joe time and time again. The fact is he took Anderson to a PPV buy rate that Anderson is incapable of reaching on his own.
Chael represents a change for the better outside of the cage in MMA. I'm tired of this "I will fight whoever Joe Silva puts in front of me" era. Make me care like Chael.
Ando after the fight says to Lidell that he is his inspiration: @4:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PinRYpQ5-_8
they sure are good friends lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PinRYpQ5-_8
they sure are good friends lol
RBelong2Us
Member
The UFC gets that much poorer and less entertaining if Chael decides to leave. Theres not that many fighters you can say that about.
Chael fans are so sad.
abstract alien
Member
Yeah, I do feel he beat Chael and gave up the win just so we could get the grudge match. Give him his shot. That said...
Man, it would be glorious lol
JasonUresti
Member
You mean the guy convicted of fraud, the guy who got caught with absurd levels of testosterone in his system, and the guy who has fake tapped and cried foul when he's been beaten in the past?
The "real" Chael isn't the swell guy that he and his PR have tried to establish.
Yeah, it wasn't just the stuffed takedowns, but that combined with Silva starting to hit him with blows. And as we've seen all too many times, it doesn't take very many of those to get a fighter to start crumpling.
A big part of the reason Chael was so successful in the first fight is because he was getting the upperhand in the stand-up as well, and that was the main reason he was able to consistently get takedowns on Anderson. With Anderson working him in the stand-up in round 2 along with stuffing whatever Chael threw at him, Chael had nothing else to offer and was done shortly thereafter.
Apparently Anderson gets no credit for the fight from the people who were desperate for him to lose. :~( He greased, held onto shorts, threw an illegal (lol) knee, and Chael only lost because he threw a spinning backfist at the wrong time.
funny i started training muay thai about two months ago and wanted to share my perspective on that amazing strike, the knee silva gave to sonnen's chest. let me tell you something, that knee at that level isn't thought or trained. when you thrust your knee forward from a standing position it's going to connect at waistline or above waistline depending on how much you raise your knee. sonnen's chest was clearly below silva's waist level yet silva pulls that knee out of his ass as if it's in normal repertoire. i know i've only trained muay thai a couple months but that knee isn't normal.
stand up and raise your knee and aim for something in front of you. aim for something waist level, easy right? now aim for something below your waist level, not so easy right? that knee from the standing position delivered to a downed opponent's chest just isn't your usual muay thai for mma. for silva to thrust that knee in that fashion with the accuracy and power he did was simply astonishing. i'd say more than 9 out of 10 fighters wouldn't knee a downed opponent the way silva did for fear of possible hitting their opponents head because that knee is so damn hard to pull off.
abstract alien
Member
Shh, you're not supposed to bring that stuff up. It doesn't gel with the scenario they've built up in their heads.
Insane Metal
Member
abstract alien
Member
Damnit!! Stop swinging at Silva's face while he is in Counter Stance!!! FUCK!!
unless you're a stockholder, what does this have to do with anything?
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
It has a lot to do with the popularity of the sport as whole for more than just stockholders, the more the popularity grows the more exposure it gets on major sport networks and news media. It is a good thing for fighters (more money) and a good thing for fans (more content).
What, you don't see value in someone who can actually sell a fight and make you actually give a damn one way or the other? Chael is a boring wrestlefucker. The buy rate speaks volumes. There's more to making people care about a fight than their in-ring talent.
'Chael represents a change for the better outside of the cage in MMA. I'm tired of this "I will fight whoever Joe Silva puts in front of me" era. Make me care like Chael.'
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Now are we talking more free content or content with a price? I understand with this sport there does have to be a limit on the content, unless the content is actual fights. Boxing still has its Friday Night Fights on ESPN2 I think, if the popularity of MMA got to those heights I would not object to it.
Now should ESPN have a daily MMA show, hell no. haha
Totally agree with that, can't stand either of them.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Come on now. Really? Of course a beginner muay thai class isn't going to teach you how to throw a knee to a grounded opponent.
Rashad Evans, 2013 Lumpinee Champ.
Silva the fighter is amazing, not every single little thing he does. The praise for his grappling is a bit out of hand. He got mounted and it was Chael's style more than his own defence that kept him safe for that minute. He tied Sonnen up pretty well but if Anderson was this complacent on his back against someone like Jones he'd be ruined.
Hilarious thread, disappointing card. Stun Gun and Maia should just fight at 149 if the muscle spasm has been dealt with by then, the card desperately needs it.
doesn't even compare to this, rashad had tito in the clinch. anyone can knee from the clinch. look at anderson measure this to sonnen's chest, who the fuck has the balls to throw a knee like that?Come on now. Really? Of course a beginner muay thai class isn't going to teach you how to throw a knee to a grounded opponent.
Rashad Evans, 2013 Lumpinee Champ.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
doesn't even compare to this, rashad had tito in the clinch. anyone can knee from the clinch. look at anderson measure this to sonnen's chest, who the fuck has the balls to throw a knee like that?
That question might have just been poor wording. Not like that is a risky move, worst case scenario he still has top position.
Ninja Scooter
Member
IT's a very risky move. If he's off by a little or Chael happens to duck his head, he nails him right in the chin. If Chael can't recover, that's an L for Anderson.
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