ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Except that isnt what I was doing but like I said, its obvious we're not going to agree.
Shane Satterfield: Wii U will cost $299
- Thread starter Horse Armour
- Start date
Except that isnt what I was doing but like I said, its obvious we're not going to agree.
This is not true at all. There were lots of innovative games on the Wii which use the Wiimote.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
For many of us that isnt the case ad I believe that is what Derrick is referring to.
If it's not spawning legitimate good unique games then it's a gimmick. We'll see how it goes but I'm putting my money on it ending up more like the Wii and kinect/move than the dualshock based on what I've seen so far.
edit: Though I will give it credit in that it has a big advantage over those and that's the ability to play a game the way it was intended since it has a full set of buttons.
You would think you would have a bit more humility about your thread posting practices.
Ugh its the same old dance over and over. Isnt it alot easier to just come out and say 'I'm not investing on system X because I'm waiting for Y'' or 'I dont like first party nintendo games' like shidoshi said?
Going through posts of people doing all sorts of mental gymnastics and profetic conclusions just to validate their lack of interest in something, or unwillingness/unableness to buy it, is the most boring thing ever. Multiply that by ten if it comes from members known for historically not giving a shit about nintendo made stuff.
But hey, lets listen to member#132's thoughts on how the gimmicky WiiU pad will have no support and how the games look like hd Wii games so he either feels better about ignoring a major gateway to quality gaming, or vents his daily dose of brand trolling.
Oh they didnt?
This is how it goes from here. I list some games I think were injected with plenty of innovative ideas via Wiimote, you will say those ideas are not innovative, not innovative enough, would work as well on a nes pad, etc... Discussion goes nowhere and eventually stops when one of use throws up the SUBJECTIVE flag.
BINGO
Going through posts of people doing all sorts of mental gymnastics and profetic conclusions just to validate their lack of interest in something, or unwillingness/unableness to buy it, is the most boring thing ever. Multiply that by ten if it comes from members known for historically not giving a shit about nintendo made stuff.
But hey, lets listen to member#132's thoughts on how the gimmicky WiiU pad will have no support and how the games look like hd Wii games so he either feels better about ignoring a major gateway to quality gaming, or vents his daily dose of brand trolling.
Oh they didnt?
This is how it goes from here. I list some games I think were injected with plenty of innovative ideas via Wiimote, you will say those ideas are not innovative, not innovative enough, would work as well on a nes pad, etc... Discussion goes nowhere and eventually stops when one of use throws up the SUBJECTIVE flag.
BINGO
metalslimer
Member
You seriously don't see anything hyperbolic at all about saying Pikmin 3 looks like a fucking GC game? Or saying no innovative games at all came from the Wiimote? The second one is opinion at least, but the first one is just straight up trolling unless you are blind.
MadeInBeats
Banned
Many of us = tiny minority of insignificant people deluded enough to think they're the centre of the universe.
Projectjustice
Banned
Day 1 for me.
Unique and legitimate game play styles:
IR FPS games, Metroid Prime 3, Blacks Ops, Sin and Punishment 2, RE4, etc
Super fun party game for ALL ages, WarioWare Smooth Moves
Near 1:1 Motion gaming, Red Steel 2, Skyward Sword
Sports game with MotionPlus - Tiger Woods PGA 12
Casual/Party Sports - Wii Sports, Mario Kart, et al.
YOU PERSONALLY, may not like these games. But the fact is, they are all unique, full retail experiences. IR shooters, 1:1 controls, motion based sports are all viable if publishers put time and money into developing them.
metalslimer
Member
Sin and Punishment 2 should destroy the idea alone that the Wiimote didn't spawn anything good. This is what I'm talking about when arguments reach hyperbolic levels.
Yes. The leaderboard shames me so much.
Well you're right, I don't like most of those and don't feel like they lead the industry forward at all. For instance I didn't consider RE4 a new game just because of the motion and I can't seem to find a Zelda thread without half of the people complaining about how awful motion made it. Not to mention the complaints about it still being a typical Zelda game, so motion obviously didn't help change/evolve it.
As for the 2nd part of your statement it should be obvious why no one bothers to develop them. Because people don't care and don't want them, they realize the games don't change just because you can move your wrist around instead of your thumbs. They should be pumping money into coming up with new game ideas instead.
How is improving controls NOT moving the industry forward? Should we stay using dual shocks for the rest of time? It's fine not to like the Wiimote or not to like some of the games which use it (Although to not like most of those titles posted above seems strange), but to claim it's not innovate or hasn't lead to some sort of innovation because you don't like it is plain silly.
I know, right. So GC like. I wish they could be improved so I could spend more time looking at the grass.
metalslimer
Member
Yeah sorry the argument that it's not innovative because I don't like it isn't a good argument at all. That's not what the definition of innovative is.
Edit: Yeah there have never been HD games with bad ground textures before definitely makes it looks like a GC game >_>
Edit: Yeah there have never been HD games with bad ground textures before definitely makes it looks like a GC game >_>
Because the games haven't changed at all. There's too much obsession with new input gimmicks all of the time and it does 0 to improve a game at all. So your accuracy in call of duty went up 5%, big deal. You're still playing the same call of duty I was on 360. If it was considered by most people to be vastly superior there wouldn't be such heavy resistance to them by gamers and the more casual crowd that makes up a large amount of 360/ps3's base.
And no we shouldn't be stuck with dual shocks. We should be using the 360 pad.
metalslimer
Member
Sin and Punishment 2. Try playing that game with dual analog vs IR and see how it goes. Stop being hyperbolic. You can say all you want that for a lot of games it doesn't improve it, but don't say it doesn't improve a game at all because that is a flat out lie.
To be fair I wouldn't play that game at all. Not really fond of on rails stuff.
Don't pick and choose games when my post grouped them different based on innovative gameplay style. Don't single out RE4. I put it in the IR shooter category, where I mentioned 4 total games. IR shooters are "legitimate." You don't want to discuss the actual ways motion controls have made various types of gaming viable.
You just say RE4 is an old port and shit on Skyward Sword. Then you talk about twisting your wrist is the same as pressing a button. Finally you finish by saying publishers don't invest in these games because of lack of market. When you should concede that part of the reason they don't invest is because they don't want to take risks in moving the innovation forward.
For some reason, a Nintendo Wii game has to be 99% perfect to gain acceptance - but your standards are undoubtedly lower for games on other platforms.
velvet_nitemare
Member
too funny lol
metalslimer
Member
Then stop saying it doesn't improve any games at all. What you like does not equal every single game. That's all I ask,
Again, "on rails" is not what we are discussing. We are discussing motion controls, specifically for S&P2 - IR aiming.
Lol. A FPS with a good Wii control scheme is almost always better than dual analog control scheme. You must be mad if you think it does 0 to improve a game. Why do you think most people prefer RE4 on Wii than on the GC/PS2? Hint, it has something to do with aiming.
And using the 360 pad FOR THE REST OF TIME would be stupid. Things evolve.
Is the thumbstick largely considered an innovative way of controlling a character through 3D space over a D-pad?
Why?
If its because it made it easier for gamers to play in these conditions, how the hell can you argue against IR pointing as an innovative way to aim over thumbstick twiddling? Or positional sensing as a more natural approach to move, turn and rotate objects in 3D space?
They made it more natural to perform these actions. They innovated.
You might not like it, but then again there are people who cant or wont wrap their heads around anything more complicated than a snes pad. They end up being the ones that are unable to enjoy the same vast library of quality videogames others can, because their minds are closed to certain ideas. In other words, its their loss.
Why?
If its because it made it easier for gamers to play in these conditions, how the hell can you argue against IR pointing as an innovative way to aim over thumbstick twiddling? Or positional sensing as a more natural approach to move, turn and rotate objects in 3D space?
They made it more natural to perform these actions. They innovated.
You might not like it, but then again there are people who cant or wont wrap their heads around anything more complicated than a snes pad. They end up being the ones that are unable to enjoy the same vast library of quality videogames others can, because their minds are closed to certain ideas. In other words, its their loss.
You can keep screaming that from the mountain top forever but the majority apparently disagrees with you, or they're just perfectly ok with the dual sticks. And the majority decides what happens, trust me I've known that pain pretty well this generation. Nintendo must agree since they were so quick to make a controller that looks strangely like a 360 one for Wii U. They know what people want now.
metalslimer
Member
What does this have to do with no game on the Wii from the wiimote being innovative?
Wow. I give up. The majority disagrees? Where exactly are you getting that from? And Nintendo made a 360 like controller? Because they've never done that before! It's not like the basis for that controller was the SNES or anything...
Three month avatar bet that Black Ops 2 will give you the option of using the Wiimote for IR aiming similar to Black Ops for Wii.
I'd certainly hope so, since it's Treyarch developing. They already have all the code in place for mapping the controls that way.
Stealth20k
Banned
the wii u gamepad I want to use
They're perfectly okay with dual sticks because people buy Call of Duty and Battlefield on their 360 and PS3 and have never experienced a first person or third person shooter on Wii.
I'm going to say something bold right now- IR pointing is better than keyboard and mouse. KB+M is far superior to dual analog, but IR pointing feels like an arcade, it feels more fun, and it's better on a comfy couch. I'm sorry, but playing Metroid Prime and Resident Evil with it have turned me over.
Also, I think they made the Pro controller for developers who don't want to use the gamepad screen. Hopefully, hopefully Call of Duty U will have an option for IR pointing. Please.
I'm going to say something bold right now- IR pointing is better than keyboard and mouse. KB+M is far superior to dual analog, but IR pointing feels like an arcade, it feels more fun, and it's better on a comfy couch. I'm sorry, but playing Metroid Prime and Resident Evil with it have turned me over.
Also, I think they made the Pro controller for developers who don't want to use the gamepad screen. Hopefully, hopefully Call of Duty U will have an option for IR pointing. Please.
That would be great. But I doubt it somehow.
Horse Armour
Member
The industry would be moving more into motion if people liked it and right now it's not. Kinect and Move are software wastelands. Nintendo dropped the wiimote like a bad habit and made a more traditional controller that has some motion stuff in it. Because that's what most of the games support and that's what people buy. It has been heavily resisted as a new technology.
metalslimer
Member
Eh...the only thing I think Wiimote aiming has over KB/M is the analog stick. It's also somewhat more comfortable. Other than in terms of speed and precision KB/M clearly win. Dual analog is the at the very back of the bunch though.
SkyMasterson
Member
I really hope Nintendoland is a pack-in.
That would seal the deal for me.
That would seal the deal for me.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
What is going on I'm this thread?!
Also: there are people that think motion controls didn't lead to unique and innovative games?
Also also: people are still claiming Skyward Sword's controls didn't work?
Also: there are people that think motion controls didn't lead to unique and innovative games?
Also also: people are still claiming Skyward Sword's controls didn't work?
Ok, let's see if you can get this. I was specially talking about FPS's. If anyone can say that DS > IR for FPS games with a straight face they'll get a cookie. And then I'd put them in a mental home because they're insane.
As for the rest, Nintendo dropped the Wiimote so hard they'll be compatible with the Wii U! It's not like it's Pikmin 3's preferred control method or anything. I'm sure they'll be gone soon enough.
And most people buy? If only something like Wii Sports was what people buy... Hell, even something like Metroid Prime 3. And I wish Mario Kart Wii was something people would buy, I loved using the Wiimote with that game.
This will 100% happen. Thus, it doesn't suit the point he's trying to make so he'll ignore it.
He hasn't come out and said, "IR gaming is not as fun as dual sticks" and he can't say it.
He can only say, "well, derr, the market didn't adopt new technology quickly and uses old technology cause its popular, so the new technology must suck"
What he doesn't get is that this same exact "dual stick" market used to spend rolls of quarters playing arcade shooters with guns, like this one:
ick?
boyshine
Member
Mouse is best if you want perfect stability and free aiming.
IR pointer deliver the same experience of free aim, but adds a level of natural instability in that your crosshair is only as stable as your hand.
Analog sticks are better if you want to press a button and automatically have your enemy in your sight. It honestly is a completely different game, and I understand people playing like this would have no desire to switch to either mouse or IR.
test_account
XP-39C²
It depends much on how good one are with it. I prefer dual analog and keyboard/mouse because those control inputs doesnt use an aimbox. I could never get the aimbox thing to feel comfortable.