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Dota 2 Beta Thread 2: Real Talk Discouraged [Magnus, Teams, 6.75b, 150+ Shop Items]
- Thread starter Artanisix
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Thanks, that actually sounds amazing.
Keeper of the Light is way too strong. Ya he lacks an escape mechanism, but good lord, the damage he puts out in team fights on top of his mana drain is straight broken. I'm really not liking the current meta game, and the order they port these heroes is just be a headache for a while.
MrChocolate
Member
Don't touch my Drow!!!! :<!!!
krameriffic
Member
This is the worst professional game of Dota I've ever watched.
BY FAR.
BY FAR.
He's a great hero for sure. I dunno about broken though.
You think mana leak is balanced? 1000 range at max level. Extremely low mana cost. Forces you into a situation that's pretty much lose/lose. This is kind of on the level of cold snap in terms of questionable balance.
LOL comparing mana leak to cold snap. One spell is countered by standing still, one spell is countered by not getting hit by anything.
funny
Work on building up his armor and armor reduction capabilities and you're pretty much all set. It really doesn't take much work to pump out a Medallion, Mek, Assault Cuirass, Shiva's, and Deso with him. It turns a monster into a monstrosity.
No, I'm comparing their utility. It's almost impossible not to move in a team fight, especially to gain superior position. Cold snap is one of the best spells in the game, and has 1000 range from the start, and has low mana cost.
Please by all means justify the balance of mana leak. Forcing someone to stand still for 7 secs or lose your whole mana pool + get stunned is beyond ridiculous.
TP makes it useless and so does blink. Dunno about forcestaff but maybe that as well. And by the time most people level the mana drain spell it's already mid/late game. Illuminate + Chakara are more important.
I think the hero as a whole is balanced, looking at individual spell alone isn't useful. He's a support that really needs levels to be effective. Even if we do a generous build of 1 illuminate, 2 chakra, max mana leak, you're still waiting until level 7 or 8 to get the long range mana leak -- it's quite short in the first few levels. Mana Leak is also annoying, yes, but it's not a spell that will kill you like Cold Snap can... and Cold Snap can kill you at level 3 or 4.
KOTL himself is increeeedibly squishy, you can put him in a position where he WON'T get to level 7 or 8 for a long time, and by then he'll be perma-killed on sight and completely free.
Schweinehund
Member
Mana leak really sucks on some heroes like tiny, but I infinitely hate invoker more. Coldsnap's range is so crazy, all of his spells have like no cast animations and his invis has no fade time. Don't even get me started on a well placed icewall.
MrChocolate
Member
Now I actually read it and... I like it.
But, it should be a separate hero, or give us the option to choose from both "builds".
SaberVulcan
Member
Fuck Icewall. Fuck that spell so hard.
FYI, you can keep moving with mana leak, you just have to not reach 0% while under its effects. Not that hard to do. It doesn't even affect blinkers
It is no different from many other stuns and snares in that its only really useful when people are out ganking as a group. KOTL with leak by himself is not going to do shit to you.
It is no different from many other stuns and snares in that its only really useful when people are out ganking as a group. KOTL with leak by himself is not going to do shit to you.
I get that he cant do much by himself, but his scalability into late game far surpasses a lot of int heroes. Also, it's really hard to keep him down on farm when he can decimate a creep wave. All he needs is a well time Illuminate on top of another aoe, and that's a won team fight. It's funny that the biggest counter to Keeper of the light is Invokers Tornado.
Crazy game, even with megacreeps Zenith weren't out of it until the final minutes. Had Prophet survived and Zenith killed one more of Infused's heroes, they could have possibly backdoored top lane and equalized. Infused going in at that juncture and taking that fight was pretty questionable, they could have relaxed after kill or two and just poke and prod to make the megacreeps unbearable.
I stand corrected!
This alone does not make him anything close to "broken". He's still a squishy int, scaling or no.
A KOTL wiping out creep waves is a KOTL stealing farm from a carry.
SaberVulcan
Member
Axe on Tobi Stream (picked by CLG).
Pre-emptive TA counterpick?
Pre-emptive TA counterpick?
tsunami643
Member
Most of this seems cool, but I have no idea how this ult will work. What if I want to do max damage? Do I have to manually calculate and move myself into 625 range now that right clicking will automatically stop once I reach ult range?
Invoker is a squishy Int, but that doesn't justify his spells.
On a side note, sure he's stealing farm from a carry, but when you are pushing a tower he's still gonna get all those creeps for the most part.
He has his weaknesses, but his team fight presence is straight up retarded.
2 AoE disables, 1 AoE slow, 1 invis, passive movespeed boost, passive regen, passive STR gain is not what I consider squishy.
KOTL is nowhere near the level of Invoker.
KOTL is a great support in the right lineups against the right team comps, where he can fully utilize his anti-pushing abilities. But you should not make him out to be some sort of OMGWTFAMAZING support. WR is still a far more versatile and safe pick in just about any team composition, but no one really complains about her being broken (even if she kind of is).
As much as I hate to say it, I get the impression that you're just bad at dealing with him.
Hoping to get on for some IHL games in a couple fo hours after I pack the Mrs off to bed.
In the meantime I was being generous to GAFers or in the Trade Central channel with items.
Still have a few to go while I'm in a generous mood.
1x Elemntal Ice Infusion for Tiny
2x Crystal Ice Bow for Drow Ranger
1x Timebreaker for Faceless void
Going for a mix of junk, commons or Axe, Bounty Hunter, Jugg or Sven Items.
Probably junk tho. Getting dinner then gona off load these if anyone wants, PM.
In the meantime I was being generous to GAFers or in the Trade Central channel with items.
Still have a few to go while I'm in a generous mood.
1x Elemntal Ice Infusion for Tiny
2x Crystal Ice Bow for Drow Ranger
1x Timebreaker for Faceless void
Going for a mix of junk, commons or Axe, Bounty Hunter, Jugg or Sven Items.
Probably junk tho. Getting dinner then gona off load these if anyone wants, PM.
BrLvgThrChmstry
Banned
Sounds good to me. Probably better off as a new hero though (with a different orb effect). Still, I'd say let the community test something like this out and let them decide?
Frost Arrows - I love the feel of the vanilla skill, but I love the changes he's suggesting here. Capping the slow at 30% and losing her Silence skill is more than fair trade for the combination root and silence proc after three arrows.
Familiar - I like this a lot. Drow is shut down very hard by ganks, so this is a nice way to give her freedom to farm and fall back when in peril. Important here is that the player has to choose his or her optimal 20 second window of awareness, and contend with no less than 40/30/20/10 seconds of being in the dark. Rewards sharp map awareness and instincts. I also like that it plays to Drow's theme and role by offering a window of True Strike, and that this would be a huge boon to her viability given the omnipresence of evasion in the metagame (Windrunner, Butterfly, Heaven's Halberd, uphill fights, etc). Synergizes with the new Frost Arrows, especially in chase scenarios.
Trueshot (Passive) - In effect gives what the old passive does, but amplifies Drow's damage in a more unique manner. It also scales better in the lategame with more attack speed/agility, and it also offers excellent synergy with the new Frost Arrows (whereas the old passive offered little synergy as such).
Markswoman (Passive, Ultimate) - Really glad he isn't advocating dropping the Attribute Bonus, that in particular was something I like about the hero quite a bit. Increased range is also quite welcome and is again something that meshes well with her theme and her role.
TL;DR: I want all of this. The remake is the best sort: it doesn't throw out most of the skills for change's sake, it respects the hero's theme, role, skills, and gleans everything players liked and incorporates them into a stronger and more contextual sort of design. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to sign into my playdota account so I can heap these praises upon it.
I believe he actually was a pretty prolific hero creator when he was on Dota so this should be played attention to.
Its the "I dunno what to get so lets get items that are always good" build.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
That is fucking weird indeed, but cool to see them trying some stuff on him. I really hope he gets at least one good pick in TI2.
People complain about shackle all the time. I think WR has fallen off in complaints though cause DS is the far more bullshit long laner.
Schweinehund
Member
The drow remake is pretty neat. I really like double attacks for some reason, I love weaver's passive and vanilla wow/tbc's windfury attack. Its much better than a boring % increase even if its the same damage in the end.
I hope icefrog keeps adding aghs for every hero. I'd be really interested in seeing what he would do for Dragon Knight (toggle dragon form), Kunkka (rum gives damage buff) and Syllabear's ults (spirit link).
I hope icefrog keeps adding aghs for every hero. I'd be really interested in seeing what he would do for Dragon Knight (toggle dragon form), Kunkka (rum gives damage buff) and Syllabear's ults (spirit link).
I want a centaur agha that gives him more strength. Would be highly original.
And in this case, can't really argue the results too strenuously. As Puppey pointed out, he really got his money's worth out of that Staff, and the other items provided quite a bit of sustainability for his team. Cool beans.
SaberVulcan
Member
That would be amazing. 4200 gold item that gives 35 strength to his ult, costing the same as Reaver + Ogre Axe. MAYBE HE WOULD BE COMPETITIVELY VIABLE THEN!
Pai Pai Master
Banned
That's awesome. This is CLG vs. whom in what league? I can't wait to get home and check out the replay.
The urn is good in lieu of the Vanguard if there are enough kills going around, and that meka goes further to keep him healed and adds some utility for the team. The force staff is the weirdest/most awesome choice. I can see the reasoning, but I'll have to watch and see. I'm always down for people going back and taking another look at Axe, I think he's a seriously underappreciated hero that just needs some unique approaches.
The urn is good in lieu of the Vanguard if there are enough kills going around, and that meka goes further to keep him healed and adds some utility for the team. The force staff is the weirdest/most awesome choice. I can see the reasoning, but I'll have to watch and see. I'm always down for people going back and taking another look at Axe, I think he's a seriously underappreciated hero that just needs some unique approaches.
Staff definitely panned out better than Blink in this game, Axe ate more than a few powerful slows that he was able to pull himself out of.
Yes.
I was just looking at his post history and he's just recently gotten back into Dota. He posted a bunch of Dota history stuff that I thought was pretty interesting. He's trying to contact Icefrog too.
Long posts (separated into two posts) about his hero creations/inputs:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6441759&postcount=26
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6441848&postcount=27
Post of his involvement with the game:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6449618&postcount=35
Cool stuff.
wakajawaka
Member
pastebin dat pls guys 
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
yea thats why i put one point into it at level 3 and max it last. unless i really need the dmg boost.
Neichus - Designed Earthshakerpastebin dat pls guys
Neichus - Designed Axe, Pudge, Sand King, Morphling, Phantom Lancer, Ursa, Broodmother, Weaver, Shadow Fiend, Enchantress, Tinker, Ogre Magi, Necrolyte
Neichus - Involvement in Dota
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/tiny.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/nerubian_weaver.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/shadow_fiend.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/axe.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/Enigma.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/phantom_lancer.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/earthshaker.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/nerubian_weaver.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/shadow_fiend.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/axe.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/Enigma.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/phantom_lancer.jpg
http://neichus.homestead.com/files/earthshaker.jpg
And that's leaving out the ones he had input on and made changes for. Prolific is right.
wakajawaka
Member
Thanks a lot man. <3
http://eurobattle.net/threads/96299-The-worst-imbalances-in-dota-history
Ye Ole Pudge is just the tip of the imbalanced iceberg
Riverfield
Neo Member
Holy shit I remember Dark Terminator. I also remember being extremely butthurt when I found out he also had reincarnation when I killed him and he just windwalked away. Never did manage to random him ;~;
Also ranged omni. Made 0 sense.
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