Technosteve
Banned
Leave Kare alone she's old and Android scares her.
Battle of the ludicrous patent claims: Apple vs Samsung vs Apple
- Thread starter shinobi602
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That's... something. It's no coincidence that the phone icon is tilted at the exact same angle and uses the exact same shape. The contacts and music icons are next in line, but not as much as these.
The green might be forgivable, but why not use an icon like this;
The mimicry is no doubt blatant. The whole 'crisis of design' is one thing, but copying specific assets is another. That alone isn't a huge deal imo, but combine it with all the other factors and it's a compelling argument.
No. It isn't.
A phone shape?
"Blatant" mimcry? Apple didn't invent the phone symbol with a green background, though they have a trademark on one manifestation of it.
Jesus fuck. Next they'll be looking at the similarities between gmail app icons.
EightBitNate
Member
Does any of this arguing really matter? Cuz at the end of the day, all that matters is the court's descision. Unless you you're as experienced in law as the court (which I doubt), you really can't yell foul
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Each icon doesn't exist in a vacuum. If you can see the similarities in the Music icons, you can surmise that the artistic source of the other similar icons came from the same thinking.
It's a jury trial.
I don't know, when I give this line of thought any scrutiny it starts to fall apart. If all the icons except the music one looked similar, would it be an issue? How many 'on the nose' similarities before you can start dragging in 'not so on the nose' similarities? It feels like its way too arbitrary. I keep bandying around Asus, but pretty much -no one- talks about the Transformer tablets and their similarities to the iPad. How come? What if there was 1 more similarity?
EightBitNate
Member
Actually, that makes sense.
But still, at the end of this nonsense, there'll be a definitive answer.
blahblah...blah
Member
You have juries for civil cases in the US? The UK version makes so much more sense.
At the end of this nonsense, there'll be an appeal.
The American legal system thinks juries are the bees knees. It's why Americans complain so much more about jury duty than any other country on the planet. They use them so heavily that any individual's chance of getting called is relatively high.
Fixed.
Certainly for the case where Apple wins, and almost certainly for the case where Samsung wins.
Edit: Beaten like a defendant who hired Quinn Emanuel...
EightBitNate
Member
The scales just don't match up. Even if they go for 100% of profits, that still only comes out to...and I've done the math...about zero dollars.
They are, and have been suing other companies for their technical patents. The kirfing is a Samsung exclusive.
I see similarities between the the contacts and memo icons.
I also see similarities between the basic components of the phone icon. However green has always been call, and red has always been disconnect. The angle is 45 degrees on both, which is the best way to show said phone icon. That has been the case for oh so many phones in the past where a physical button would have a green phone at either a 45 degree angle for squarish buttons or cutting through the diagonal for non square icons. The phone itself is different.
I see no similarity between the music icons. There is no representation of a CD in Apple's icon, the note has always been a universal symbol for music and it's not centred in Samsung's icons.
I also see similarities between the basic components of the phone icon. However green has always been call, and red has always been disconnect. The angle is 45 degrees on both, which is the best way to show said phone icon. That has been the case for oh so many phones in the past where a physical button would have a green phone at either a 45 degree angle for squarish buttons or cutting through the diagonal for non square icons. The phone itself is different.
I see no similarity between the music icons. There is no representation of a CD in Apple's icon, the note has always been a universal symbol for music and it's not centred in Samsung's icons.
You're ignoring the context.
So you're saying if android were to come out before iOS did, that the icon would still look like that? Just because the shape has existed before doesn't mean a lot in this context.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The note and the CD are exactly the same as the iTunes icon. That black and white icon at the top right is the old iTunes icon.
Aaaah! Okay. Blatantly copied in that case. Was it ever used on the iPhone?
I see nothing. It looks like a dime and dozen audio/musics CD icons out there.
No but I think a lot of those rip off OS's early on would steal the old OS X iTunes logo (with CD) and slap into mobile interfaces all the time. That's probably the argument they're going for, but I agree that the music icon is fine. There's too much a dissimilarity for it to be recognizable as iTunes or iMusic or whatever in any way imo.. Especially with the actual music icon being sized and placed way differently from the iTunes logo.
Think back at all the dumbphones. They all used the same icon for the call button. In most cases they'd be like the iPhones but rotated 90 degrees clockwise (i.e. like you just just picked up the phone from a horizontal position). All of them were green. No one sued each other for using the same icon. Apple rotated it 90 degrees anti clockwise and inverted the colours.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Really? That's the most blatant one to me that shows no unique design thinking. There is no CD player on their phones. Why does the icon have that?
Although i'm not a big fan of Metro, you gotta give it to them for coming up with something totally new to enter the smartphone market with. It's a stark contrast between the way Samsung when about it imo. Even when you look at the hardware side there's a difference between Samsung and Win. phone's. Lumia's a good example, but even apart from that there's a difference in corner radius' and other details that set a lot of them apart more-so than the lot of Samsung hardware.
That's not to say Samsung is totally guilty of everything Apple is accusing them of, but the Windows went a about in a much more 'aware' way, I think.
That's not to say Samsung is totally guilty of everything Apple is accusing them of, but the Windows went a about in a much more 'aware' way, I think.
Yeah yeah like I said, blatantly copied. Irrelevant to this case if it was never used for music on the iPhone though because Apples argument is that people would confuse the phones because of said icons.
I'm willing to bet it's the same reason everyone's icon for save is a floppy disk. Or why the phone icon looks like an old timey phone. Or why the contacts book looks like an address book. Or why the memo needs lines. Etc...
EightBitNate
Member
That matters? Samsung copied they're icon but since it wasn't used in exactly the same way all is fine?
Well, yeah. Gtalk's been using the speech bubble for messaging since 2006. Are we gonna say that Apple copied Gtalk's icon for messaging?
EightBitNate
Member
I can't even a Gtalk icon.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
They did.
Audio discs could actually be used in Windows, and they avoided similarities to existing products.
I think it'd be pretty funny if all music players just used orange lightning bolts because of Winamp.
Heh, true. XP below, using both single and double notes. The 16 color icon suggests it's been used since '98 or '95.
Yeah but lightning bolts aren't universal symbols for music. Notes are. And when you think CD you think audio CD. Seriously are you arguing against skeuomorphism?
What does that even mean?
sableholic
Member
Heh, true. XP below, using both single and double notes.
ms should now sue samsung, you put a cd and a musical note together!
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
No, I'm saying that it's an understandable position against Samsung. Looking at this one icon doesn't mean much, but again, all of these similarities don't individually exist in their own vacuums.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
all this stuff is BS.
apple did not invent many of their icons, they've merely rehashed old well known icons.
here's what payphone icons look like in some places.
so fuck apple with this copyright stuff. What's next, apple is going to create the iBathroom and sue anyone who uses:
as an icon?
not to mention the way iPhone is written is a copy of eBay. Apple has done an amazing job of copying people and publicisizing it as if they're the original.
apple did not invent many of their icons, they've merely rehashed old well known icons.
here's what payphone icons look like in some places.
so fuck apple with this copyright stuff. What's next, apple is going to create the iBathroom and sue anyone who uses:
as an icon?
not to mention the way iPhone is written is a copy of eBay. Apple has done an amazing job of copying people and publicisizing it as if they're the original.
Like I said, the memo and the contacts icons look similar and Apple are right. The iTunes one looks like the music one which looks like the windows audio icon. The dialer icon is a silly claim.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yeah, this comparison was a bit hilarious;
So incriminatingly similar! :lol
Uh, is that for real? Apple is claiming trademark infringement on that? That's just ridiculous (well, even more ridiculous than most of what Apple is trying to pull off). A speech bubble is such a common symbol for various chat applications, and the Android version is not even similar to Apple's icon.
They're even including the Nexus S, for which Google, not Samsung, designed 100% of the software? Oh my.
It's not tilted at the same exact angle.
Reaching a bit? Either they copied Apple or they didn't. I mean you're saying MS didn't copy Apple because computers have cd drives (nevermind the whole prior arts thing). But cell phones don't, so Samsung clearly ripped Apple off. I know this sounds crazy, but maybe there's another possibility: It's what everyone has been using for decades and it's a well established icon?
Technosteve
Banned
you should see the messaging app on galaxy vs iphone, it's the super kirf
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
Whilst a lot of people can say most of these icons were before the iPhone, I'd like to think of it like this
Take two design teams and put them at the other side of the globe with no contact. From Janurary to March get them to design an icon for Music, contacts, phone and messages. Id predict that none of them will match what Samsung did so closely
Yes Apple drew inspiration of other, but I highly doubt Samsung would have anything similar to what the iPhone has if they released before the iPhone IMO
Take two design teams and put them at the other side of the globe with no contact. From Janurary to March get them to design an icon for Music, contacts, phone and messages. Id predict that none of them will match what Samsung did so closely
Yes Apple drew inspiration of other, but I highly doubt Samsung would have anything similar to what the iPhone has if they released before the iPhone IMO
RoadHazard
Gold Member
How many times would you repeat this experiment? Would you have a control? Would you ensure that they came from similar backgrounds (tech designers)?
More seriously, have you ever actually worked with designers? They don't just produce one thing, generally. They generally produce a broad spectrum of ideas and then either they or their client choose which ones to make full designs. I'd guarantee your two design teams would come up with a lot of overlapping ideas.
All that said, prior art MATTERS. Obviousness MATTERS. Using a non-unique idea is not and should not be something you can go around clubbing your competition over the head with.
I'm betting if it happens for actual, real, important discoveries (you know, like calculus, energy-mass equivalence and evolution) it'd happen with design.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries
That shape is far different from what Samsung or Apple use.all this stuff is BS.
apple did not invent many of their icons, they've merely rehashed old well known icons.
here's what payphone icons look like in some places.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
samsung is not the exact same as apple, they have a slightly different angle, and samsung sometimes have flat squares some textured, some with rounded corners, etc. Even the shape is slightly different, samsungs is longer for example, the reciver more rounded.
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