Yeah I can't remember now if he only kills Caius but don't destroy the heart or not. x__x
Final Fantasy 13 - A Storm Gathers
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Yeah I can't remember now if he only kills Caius but don't destroy the heart or not. x__x
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Don't be surprised if a plot twist for a Heart of Etro and a Heart of Chaos comes to fruition.
With the implication there were 2 hearts and only one was destroyed. Course I'm bsing right now since the Heart of Etro is supposed to be the Heart of Chaos.
Then there is the Shadow Haze Legion of Yeul's to worry about which might in some way either be connected to Snow's unknown Fal'cie or something else entirely. A "chaotic" force is breaking loose and Caius is basically becoming Xande 2.0 except being successful.
>_>
With the implication there were 2 hearts and only one was destroyed. Course I'm bsing right now since the Heart of Etro is supposed to be the Heart of Chaos.
Then there is the Shadow Haze Legion of Yeul's to worry about which might in some way either be connected to Snow's unknown Fal'cie or something else entirely. A "chaotic" force is breaking loose and Caius is basically becoming Xande 2.0 except being successful.
>_>
Meccanical
Member
XIII-3 has a lot to wrap up.
saveweyard
Banned
Hmm, not really sure if this is ever brought up. I'd assume he could die other ways too. Decapitation?
Meccanical
Member
There's no decapitation in Final Fantasy!(At least not XIII-2)
I'm pretty sure they showed his body and it was still intact.
Guardians become immortal by inheriting the Heart of Etro. Noel became a Guardian in the paradox ending because he defeated Caius and had the 'curse' passed to him. In the regular ending, Caius actively made Noel destroy the Heart of Etro to realize his plan. No heart, no guardian.
badcrumble
Member
This is never really talked about. We have to assume that it's not the only way he can die, but the game does a terrible job of explaining this.
I just don't think it's an actual *inconsistency* between the two endings. It's just that the game's logic is poorly explained (or not explained at all).
Synless
Member
So he has to pass it on?
saveweyard
Banned
That was mostly a joke. But couldn't they mortally wound him to the point where he is "defeated" without having to destroy the heart?
Ugh, I can't believe I forgot about all this things. Urge to replay rising.
Yeah, I think thats it.
Yeah, I think thats it.
Meccanical
Member
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
One of the Paradox endings is rather significant as it mentions 13 crystals that are "supposedly" necessary to stop Caius.
I think the crystals in themselves are important.
And another thing is the 13th Ark, which is probably very important and has high symbolic value.
I think the crystals in themselves are important.
And another thing is the 13th Ark, which is probably very important and has high symbolic value.
He can never be defeated BECAUSE of the heart.
saveweyard
Banned
I'm gonna go back and plat both. I only ever saw the one paradox ending with the dream...
Meccanical
Member
Then how did he die in the ending?
I guess we can wave this off with "lol paradox"...seeing as it is a paradox ending.
That's what happened. Noel and Serah beat him down and Noel even spared his life (well, if you choose that option...). Caius however took Noel's sword and plunged it into the heart despite Noel's resistance.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Faked his death most likely.
Zoe
Member
saveweyard
Banned
Hmm, true. Unless "immortality" and not being able to be "defeated" are two different things. I don't know, there are a lot of inconsistencies here. Or just bad story telling when it comes to details.
Meccanical
Member
But he couldn't have faked Noel becoming the new guardian...
Unless a wizard did it.
See my above posts. Also, remember a paradox ending is not a canon event. Noel was never supposed to beat Caius. But by manipulating time to do so, you do and Noel becomes Caius and will most likely eventually fall into the same despair that Caius did, probably hatching a similar plan to free Serah from her fate.
I almost plat. XIII and plat. XIII-2, but knowing myself I will replay them both after XIII-3 is announced.
He didn't?
Edit: I mean, in the main ending.
Caius DID die but he also died in Valhalla. There is no 'death' there. I like to think he is now in his own little dreamworld like the one that he trapped Serah and Noel in (remember that they were 'killed' too before they ended up in the chaos.
saveweyard
Banned
Shit, this is too confusing. Almost harder to follow than VII's plot when I was younger.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Well we know in what is perceived as canon that Noel had the will power but his strike was likely to be a near fatal experience. And in Valhalla you can't truly die.
The heart's destructive power was released and the "chaotic" entity was set free.
What the entity is however is completely unknown. What is known was Etro was trying to hold it back and like ExDeath it has found a way to free itself from it's prison.
And if I recall correctly the Ark's were created for such a disaster and only L'cie can open access to them.
Of which currently there is Snow
and perhaps GILGAMESH if Type 0 means anything but let's not consider him.
I think he "died" and Noel didn't get the heart of Chaos because he auto-stabbed himself, or something, in the "real" ending. In the other one, I think it may be because of what Zoe said, since Caius might have seen Noel had an extremely strong will, stronger than his.
But it's still all very weird since the secret ending makes it seem as if Caius isn't actually dead after he "died", that might be because after he "dies" and chaos consumes all, everything basically turns into Valhalla and death does not exist there.
But it's still all very weird since the secret ending makes it seem as if Caius isn't actually dead after he "died", that might be because after he "dies" and chaos consumes all, everything basically turns into Valhalla and death does not exist there.
Meccanical
Member
Well hopefully this means XIII-3 will have more than 2 party members,
lol What are these arks you talk about? Were they mentioned in the datalog or something? Can't remember about them.
I don't think so.
Meccanical
Member
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
An example.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fifth_Ark
Snow's fal'cie was never explained. I don't think the novel they did for him explained it either.
Yes, that explains the paradox and canon ending.
In the paradox ending, you (well via Noel) are strong enough to defeat Caius but at that point in his life, he has no reason to want to use that power for anything other than protecting Yuel. His will was not strong enough to counter the curse of the Heart and he becomes another Guardian chained.
In the real ending, he is given the chance to take the Heart but refuses, sparing Caius. He no longer wants that power and demonstrates the strength of his will. It is only by Caius' own hand that his life and the Heart are ended.
In the real ending, he is given the chance to take the Heart but refuses, sparing Caius. He no longer wants that power and demonstrates the strength of his will. It is only by Caius' own hand that his life and the Heart are ended.
It was supposed to be revealed in a book that was going to come out. I think SE went with the direction that he was made a I'cie by the Arbitor of Time and is gaining the strength he needs to save Serah by endlessly fighting in the arena. Could be totally wrong though.
Zoe
Member
He asked ???? to become one.
From the first game. You end up in one of the arks in the 11th? chapter.
Edit: and in the second game
Hope figures out how to make Cocoon2 gravitate by studying an ark that mysteriously appears
LMAO
Its the actual map. Now I know why I remembered the name but not having read about it.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
LMAO
Its the actual map. Now I know why I remembered the name but not having read about it.
In total there are 13, but the 13th one is special if I recall correctly.
saveweyard
Banned
I could see this playing a role. Kind of reminds me of the Weapons in VII meant to protect the planet.
From the wiki:
I feel like everything about these games is UNCERTAIN. lol XIII-3 better clear things up.
Meccanical
Member
Watch XIII-3 have nothing to do with the Arks because they forgot about them.
Unfortunately, the weapons of the ark would probably destroy the planet if the mythos are true.
Of course my theory:
Mwynn and Bunibelze are some kind of evolved humans who created machines that became Fal Cie using crystals from the unseen world. It cannot be a coincidence that the Eidolens and Fal' Cie are so mechanical.
Thats a very interesting theory Toth.
I think people should watch this video to understand the mythology of Fabula Nova Crystallis better, it helped me at least:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUlt89pbMl8
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Wouldn't be the first time. Considering the Pulse and Cocoon War used Arks as military strongholds.
Besides I think Ragnarok is going to return.
And if the Ark's living weapons are comparable to
Type 0's Alexander or Knights of the Round
Then bring it.
Another thing to note about the 13th Ark is that one entry of the Fragments mentions it from the Book of Haerii.
The first four letters belong to the canned title Haeresis.
Interesting.
Thanks! Ever since Grandia 2, I have been wary of game mythologies because there always tends to be some shocking truth to the legends that makes them less 'divine'.
Also, SE needed to have that video in XIII-2 too. If it such a shame so much of the FF 13 universe has been kept in Japanese (all those episodes that really give more background to all the characters, this video). I really see why people have such a different time following the story and enjoying the world as a result of this
edit:
Nice catch. What does Haeresis mean...? Haeresis is Latin for Heresy which means a belief or opinion that rejects or opposes a mainstream culture or religion
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
If it is in latin it means Heresy. So in essence if FNC follows the concept of Fate then that would mean rejecting the concept of fate, gods and the like.
So Book Of Heresy. Sounds veryyyy interesting.
idlethreats
Member
If XIII-3 consisted of only two party members, and those members where Fang and Vanille, I would be okay with that.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I've always been flabbergasted that this video isn't actually included in any of the FNC games. "Here, it is the logic for our entire mythos, but you gotta go find it lol."
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Type 0 pulls it's own little spin on it and I think actually explains it as well.
The following image sums up my problem with the end of the game precisely:
Nothing is changed in the end of the game.
At all. Cocoon still falls. Everything you worked for two games to prevent happens anyway, and why? Because Hope let's it. It was stupid to travel to the future when he had time traveling friends who could help him solve his problems without his needing to move into the future. And Hope lets Cocoon fall, despite him being smart enough to build a machine that Gods built. He had the technology and means to save Cocoon, and did not.
BUT! Even though you fail to save the future! Serah still dies because "changing the future changes the past paradox paradox paradox causes her brain to melt!" So even though I made no changes to time in any real way, Serah's pea-brain explodes and dies. So everything Lightning and Snow worked to do in FFXIII, and Fang and Vanille sacrificed for, is invalidated without good reason. Which is Toriyama's forte: doing drama without any reason.
And if that wasn't bad enough, then I have to hear Noel whine about how he killed the Goddess, even though, regardless of your choice, Caius kills himself. Noel's sword was used to do it, sure, but Noel was actively trying to STOP Caius from doing anything. The only reason he still had his hand on his sword was that. So no, Noel, can it. Caius killed the Goddess, not you.
BUT! Even though you fail to save the future! Serah still dies because "changing the future changes the past paradox paradox paradox causes her brain to melt!" So even though I made no changes to time in any real way, Serah's pea-brain explodes and dies. So everything Lightning and Snow worked to do in FFXIII, and Fang and Vanille sacrificed for, is invalidated without good reason. Which is Toriyama's forte: doing drama without any reason.
And if that wasn't bad enough, then I have to hear Noel whine about how he killed the Goddess, even though, regardless of your choice, Caius kills himself. Noel's sword was used to do it, sure, but Noel was actively trying to STOP Caius from doing anything. The only reason he still had his hand on his sword was that. So no, Noel, can it. Caius killed the Goddess, not you.
FFXIII-2's ending is the first time in 20 years of playing these games that I have been so pissed off that I did not watch the credits and did not wait to see David "Ribs" Carillo's name. I'm thankful I played The Third Birthday, because it's the only thing that keeps me from pronouncing this the worst ending to a Square Enix game, ever.
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