Support NeoGAF

[Joni]

I'd say most do compared with big city departments. Did you look at the stats from the in the thread on the NYPD admitting they wounded everyone?

I'm not disputing the NYPD causes a lot of collateral damage, I'm saying most normal people won't fare much better. But if you're saying most exerpienced shooters do better, I'll accept. But to make sure new gun owners get up to that level of skill, they would need a lot of practice. So why not enforce that practice? Otherwise you get a lot of people that end up wounding more people than they're defending.

The fundamental problem with guns is people.

What would be the use of those guns without people? So either you ban them completely or you make sure everyone is trained so good that they only get themselves and the criminals shot instead of random bystanders.

 

[ChanHuk]

I dunno, most people still don't know how to drive properly. I say we fix that first.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

10 round mag limits are idiotic because a perp isn't going to have a 10 round mag.

Aren't the overwhelming amounts of violent gun crime committed with shotguns and pistols?

I mean, not every gun crime is the LA Bank Shootout.

 

[Future]

The fundamental problem with anything is people.

True but not many other things can affect others lives so easily. What I don't like is that people's general lack of skill in gun use, gun storage, and the like can affect me a great deal if I am in the wrong place in the wrong time. Even cars require some level insurance since most people suck at using them. Maybe guns do too, although a quick google search indicates that's a negative. It feels like we ignore the reality that most gun owners don't have the level competency of probably people in this thread.

I also believe, though, that making it harder to get guns may not correlate with lower gun crime in the long run. What we really need to do, IMO is crack down hard on black market guns. Lower their numbers, then we can start considering if anything else is necessary.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Aren't the overwhelming amounts of violent gun crime committed with shotguns and pistols?

I mean, not every gun crime is the LA Bank Shootout.

Handguns overwhelmingly vs shotguns, rifles, long guns and even all three combined.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

 

[Mammoth Jones]

It feels like we ignore the reality that most gun owners don't have the level competency of probably people in this thread.

But the problem with this line of thinking is that it relies on "feelings" that fly in the face of the stats. The stats are there are 45 million gun owners in the US. Yes, there are crimes and yes some people fuck up when it comes to storing and securing their weapons. But it's not like 45 million people a day are fucking up.

I also believe, though, that making it harder to get guns may not correlate with lower gun crime in the long run. What we really need to do, IMO is crack down hard on black market guns. Lower their numbers, then we can start considering if anything else is necessary.

That and the gang crime and drug crime going on. It would make a difference.

 

[ChanHuk]

Aren't the overwhelming amounts of violent gun crime committed with shotguns and pistols?

I mean, not every gun crime is the LA Bank Shootout.

They're mostly committed by .38 special snub noses I would assume which only has a 6 round capacity. Long guns/rifles are rarely used in gun violence. They're for sport and every gun owner knows that.

 

[Future]

Doing some searches on google suggest that a gun owner can sell his gun to anyone in his state as long as there is no probable cause not to. Receipts and background checks not required. Even if a gun is lost, there may be no legal requirement to report it. Getting the informatiom rom links in this thread among others

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/16370-privately-selling-handgun.html

Maybe this has been covered in this thread, but do most agree that gun laws may be a little lax when it comes to this? That if we don't want to restrict obtaining a weapon legally from shops, that we should do a better job tracking the guns that exist and their paper trail of where they end up? Even my car is required to be registered yearly, if I plan to not operate it or sell it the DMV needs to be notified, etc

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Doing some searches on google suggest that a gun owner can sell his gun to anyone in his state as long as there is no probable cause not to. Receipts and background checks not required. Even if a gun is lost, there may be no legal requirement to report it. Getting the informatiom rom links in this thread among others

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/16370-privately-selling-handgun.html

Varies from state to state you can do that with long guns in PA, but not handguns. For in state sales the states get to set the requirements, for interstate the Feds.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Doing some searches on google suggest that a gun owner can sell his gun to anyone in his state as long as there is no probable cause not to. Receipts and background checks not required. Even if a gun is lost, there may be no legal requirement to report it. Getting the informatiom rom links in this thread among others

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/16370-privately-selling-handgun.html

Maybe this has been covered in this thread, but do most agree that gun laws may be a little lax when it comes to this? That if we don't want to restrict obtaining a weapon legally from shops, that we should do a better job tracking the guns that exist and their paper trail of where they end up? Even my car is required to be registered yearly, if I plan to not operate it or sell it the DMV needs to be notified, etc

Not in NY. Lose your gun and you better report that shit.

 

[Rubbish King]

guns dont kill people, rappers do.


So do the police

Spoiler

WOOP WOOP WOOP

 

[Flo_Evans]

Doing some searches on google suggest that a gun owner can sell his gun to anyone in his state as long as there is no probable cause not to. Receipts and background checks not required. Even if a gun is lost, there may be no legal requirement to report it. Getting the informatiom rom links in this thread among others

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/16370-privately-selling-handgun.html

Maybe this has been covered in this thread, but do most agree that gun laws may be a little lax when it comes to this? That if we don't want to restrict obtaining a weapon legally from shops, that we should do a better job tracking the guns that exist and their paper trail of where they end up? Even my car is required to be registered yearly, if I plan to not operate it or sell it the DMV needs to be notified, etc

I sort of agree, but realistically what can you do to track private sales?

Personally if I sold a gun I would WANT it to be transfered legally to the new owner. If my gun was stolen I would WANT to report it and collect insurance.

There is a fringe element of gun owners though that are totally against registration, databases and tracking and will do anything and everything not to have a paper trail tying a gun to them.

AFAIK, and someone that buys and sells guns more often than me might know better, but the feds don't even record the serial numbers of a purchased gun. They run a background check and give a yes/no answer. It is up to the store selling the gun to keep records of serial numbers.

 

[Future]

I sort of agree, but realistically what can you do to track private sales?

Personally if I sold a gun I would WANT it to be transfered legally to the new owner. If my gun was stolen I would WANT to report it and collect insurance.

There is a fringe element of gun owners though that are totally against registration, databases and tracking and will do anything and everything not to have a paper trail tying a gun to them.

AFAIK, and someone that buys and sells guns more often than me might know better, but the feds don't even record the serial numbers of a purchased gun. They run a background check and give a yes/no answer. It is up to the store selling the gun to keep records of serial numbers.

It would seem that if we want to lower the amount of black market and untraceable guns, then we need to do a good job tracking the legally purchased guns first to ensure that they do not fall in that pool. The fact that the laws vary so much from state to state shows that the federal government as a whole does not treat a gun as much more that any other object you might own.

Personally, I don't mind that people "can" own guns. I just don't like the fact that there seems to be little to no effort to track the guns in circulation. As they move from owner to owner, it seems woefully easy in some states to lose track of them. Can't any legal gun be instantly made black market if the serials are removed? if the answer is yes, then why don't we do a better job in tracking these guns before they become black market? Require everyone to show proof of possession ever so often, and to report all sales and track everything in a database.

And you are right, reading up on the subject there are people out there that really don't want that for whatever reason. Is it because of the inconvenience?

 

[HyperionX]

I thinks time we fire this thread up again. I think we need more gun control because America is awashed with guns and the murder rate is too high. Discuss.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I thinks time we fire this thread up again. I think we need more gun control because America is awashed with guns and the murder rate is too high. Discuss.

Actually murder has been declining despite the increase in guns. Research next time.

 

[HyperionX]

Actually murder has been declining despite the increase in guns. Research next time.

From sky high to only really high. You've said the same thing in every thread and it's not getting more valid.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

From sky high to only really high. You've said the same thing in every thread and it's not getting more valid.

People have tried The same excuse to clear and unbiased facts from the FBI and it isn't working here either.

 

[HyperionX]

People have tried The same excuse to clear and unbiased facts from the FBI and it isn't working here either.

Pretty sure "it" has been working here at neogaf. I think you and a few others are the only ones here that think differently.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Pretty sure "it" has been working here at neogaf. .

No, it's been refuted each time with historical facts. Hand waving and ducking isnt a valid response.

 

[HyperionX]

No, it's been refuted each time with historical facts. Hand waving and ducking isnt a valid response.

No it hadn't. There's plently of evidence that more gun control is a good idea. Just because not every piece of evidence is in favor of it doesn't disprove the whole concept. Your the one trying to duck and handwave it away.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No it hadn't. There's plently of evidence that more gun control is a good idea. Just because not every piece of evidence is in favor of it doesn't disprove the whole concept. Your the one trying to duck and handwave it away.

Yeah it has, gun control in the United States is dead. The Brady Bunch and all the other wannabe gun grabbers are on the losing side of history.