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[Fourth Storm]

Just messing with you because of Fourth Storm's post. But yeah assuming clock multiples the options are limited. Though it would be interesting if they did take the GPU to 600Mhz (which I don't expect) I could see them going with 900Mhz memory and have the CPU at 1800.

And considering the TDP for the 30nm version would have been great, I can only imagine the benefit of the 20nm version... unless you have a link.

Hey hey, my bad on that prior one! Proper credit went to Thraktor! Haha but since we're weighin in again, I agree with you both on the GPU clock, but I am going with 1.44 Ghz for the CPU and 720 Mhz DDR3. And what the hell, my latest insane musings: What if Nintendo stripped the GPU of SRAM and replaced it with eDRAM? Basically, an additional 1 MB of eDRAM split evenly between the general purpose registers and L1 texture cache. Because you could fit 4X as much on.

 

[Earendil]

Hey hey, my bad on that prior one! Proper credit went to Thraktor! Haha but since we're weighin in again, I agree with you both on the GPU clock, but I am going with 1.44 Ghz for the CPU and 720 Mhz DDR3. And what the hell, my latest insane musings: What if Nintendo stripped the GPU of SRAM and replaced it with eDRAM? Basically, an additional 1 MB of eDRAM split evenly between the general purpose registers and L1 texture cache. Because you could fit 4X as much on.

What kind of performance benefit would that provide? My tech knowledge isn't quite this low-level.

 

[ozfunghi]

So... BG, are you "convinced" that the GPU will have 640 SPU's?

 

[specialguy]

I am willing to bet large sums is has less than 640 SP's.

we would be talking about more sp's than some durango rumors state (cape verde, which has either 512 or 640 SP's). once again wildly inflating wii u power estimates until it's more powerful than durango (which happens frequently, but is ludicrous)

 

[ozfunghi]

I'm still sticking to 480 Mhz & 480 ALU's (460 Gflops), just to be safe. If it turns out to be more/faster, i can only be pleasantly surprised. But maybe BG is sticking to 640 because he has seen/heard something that he can't share here.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Well, the e6760 has 640 SPUs doesn't it?
That's probably why it's more likely than 480SPUs.

 

[Donnie]

I am willing to bet large sums is has less than 640 SP's.

we would be talking about more sp's than some durango rumors state (cape verde, which has either 512 or 640 SP's). once again wildly inflating wii u power estimates until it's more powerful than durango (which happens frequently, but is ludicrous)

More SP's doesn't equal more powerful, which I'm sure you know. People here are suggesting 640SP's at 480Mhz for GPU7 which is 614Gflops, whether you agree or not its certainly not being suggested that its more powerful than Cape Verde.

Cape Verde at its slowest is 512SP's at 800Mhz which is 819Gflops. The version rumoured for the XBox 3 GPU is 640SP's at 1Ghz which is 1280Gflops.

 

[The Elite]

So if I buy the 8 gig I can still throw a 32gb SDHC card in there, right?

 

[Donnie]

Yes

 

[big_erk]

So if I buy the 8 gig I can still throw a 32gb SDHC card in there, right?

Or a multi-terabyte usb hard drive.

 

[stilgar]

So if I buy the 8 gig I can still throw a 32gb SDHC card in there, right?

Nope. It only works with this bad boy:

 

[AlStrong]

Well, the e6760 has 640 SPUs doesn't it?

480

 

[Donnie]

Nope. It only works with this bad boy:

What's that?

 

[brainpann]

^N64 memory pak

 

[Donnie]

I knew I recognised it from somewhere, long time ago

 

[alfredofroylan]

What's that?

Nintendo 64 memory pack, back in those days Nintendo tried to convince people to use this intead of the standard memory in every cartdrige to save their games. Of couse it didn't work well and eventually they had to go back to the use of memory inside every cartdrige.

 

[donny2112]

So if I buy the 8 gig I can still throw a 32gb SDHC card in there, right?

Yes. The on-board memory is built-in. It doesn't take up the SD card slot.

 

[wsippel]

Well, the e6760 has 640 SPUs doesn't it?
That's probably why it's more likely than 480SPUs.

Why? Wii U does not use an E6760. That whole rumor is completely baseless.

 

[bgassassin]

On this page they give the 0.97W for a 20nm 4GB module that I used before. In both cases it's at 1.35V. Voltage matters more for power consumption than clock speed, although they do point out that speeds >800MHz aren't achievable at 1.35V. In any case for 2GB I don't see consumption increasing much beyond a watt even if you're breaking the 1GHz barrier.

Of course, given how small the numbers involved are, it's entirely possible that the 30nm chips would fit the bill and be chosen instead for budgetary reasons.

Right, that's why I mentioned the clock because it doesn't tell us if that wattage number was based on 1.35v or 1.5v. But I do think it's very likely the 2GB is under 1w.

Hey hey, my bad on that prior one! Proper credit went to Thraktor! Haha but since we're weighin in again, I agree with you both on the GPU clock, but I am going with 1.44 Ghz for the CPU and 720 Mhz DDR3. And what the hell, my latest insane musings: What if Nintendo stripped the GPU of SRAM and replaced it with eDRAM? Basically, an additional 1 MB of eDRAM split evenly between the general purpose registers and L1 texture cache. Because you could fit 4X as much on.

So... BG, are you "convinced" that the GPU will have 640 SPU's?

I'm still sticking to 480 Mhz & 480 ALU's (460 Gflops), just to be safe. If it turns out to be more/faster, i can only be pleasantly surprised. But maybe BG is sticking to 640 because he has seen/heard something that he can't share here.

Since you put convinced in quotes I would say yes. And it's based on everything we've been able to gather over the last year including something I was told privately that I've since shared.

Well, the e6760 has 640 SPUs doesn't it?
That's probably why it's more likely than 480SPUs.

Even though it's already been answered, I would suggest you might want to learn more about a GPU before saying something could be based on it or take from it.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Man, the Nintendo 64 controller was so crazy innovative with all the things you could attach to it:

Controller Pak

The Controller Pak (コントローラパック Kontorōra Pakku?) is the console's memory card, comparable to those seen in the PlayStation and other CD-ROM-based video game consoles. Certain games allowed saving of game files to the Controller Pak, which plugged into the back of the Nintendo 64 controller (as did the Rumble and Transfer Paks). The Controller Pak was marketed as a way to exchange data with other Nintendo 64 owners, since information saved on the game cartridge could not be transferred to another cartridge.

Rumble Pak

The Rumble Pak (振動パック Shindō Pakku?) is an accessory which provides haptic feedback to the player by way of vibration. It is powered by two AAA batteries and connects to the controller's expansion port. It was released in 1997 for the new game Star Fox 64, with which it was originally bundled.

Transfer Pak

The Transfer Pak (64GBパック Rokujūyon Jī Bī Pakku?, 64 Game Boy Pack) is an accessory that plugged into the controller and allowed the Nintendo 64 to transfer data between Game Boy or Game Boy Color games and N64 games.[9] The Transfer Pak has a Game Boy Color slot and a part that fits onto the expansion port of the N64 controller. It was included with the game Pokémon Stadium, as the game's main feature was importing Pokémon teams from Game Boy titles.

Psh, the best speculator is someone who have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Rootbeer]

So if I buy the 8 gig I can still throw a 32gb SDHC card in there, right?

Or plug a $99 1TB usb hdd into it and be set for the lifetime of the system. Wii U has it right.

 

[specialguy]

More SP's doesn't equal more powerful, which I'm sure you know. People here are suggesting 640SP's at 480Mhz for GPU7 which is 614Gflops, whether you agree or not its certainly not being suggested that its more powerful than Cape Verde.

Cape Verde at its slowest is 512SP's at 800Mhz which is 819Gflops. The version rumoured for the XBox 3 GPU is 640SP's at 1Ghz which is 1280Gflops.

Right. It's probably likely that Cape Verde in a console might both be underclocked (heat) and have redundant CU's (yield). This means the 512 at 800mhz is more likely.

That's very little more grunt than a supposed 640 SP Wii U would have.

 

[Donnie]

Right. It's probably likely that Cape Verde in a console might both be underclocked (heat) and have redundant CU's (yield). This means the 512 at 800mhz is more likely.

That's very little more grunt than a supposed 640 SP Wii U would have.

The rumour for XBox 3 was 1.2 Tflops though or was there a new rumour I didn't hear?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Or plug a $99 1TB usb hdd into it and be set for the lifetime of the system. Wii U has it right.

Can I get something really cheap if I already have a 2.5 inch enclosure?

 

[wsippel]

Can I get something really cheap if I already have a 2.5 inch enclosure?

The most expensive part of an external hard drive is the hard drive itself - the enclosures are dirt cheap. A good 2.5 inch drive (eg WD Scorpio Blue) is still close to $100 for 1TB.

 

[Fourth Storm]

What kind of performance benefit would that provide? My tech knowledge isn't quite this low-level.

Well beefing up the registers would enhance gpgpu functionality (as was discussed by Thraktor and bgassassin in the previous pages). And the texture cache, to the best of my knowledge, would free up additional bandwidth to main memory, by storing some of the most commonly used assets (like your character's textures or ground texture, for example).

 

[AzaK]

So if I buy the 8 gig I can still throw a 32gb SDHC card in there, right?

Yup. Dunno what it's like in the US but here, unless you REALLY want white and/or don't want NintendoLand, it still doesn't add up. I wouldn't mind white, but by the time I add an SD card to the 8 GB and buy NintendoLand it's about the same price. And with the premium I get 10% point rebate and some add ons

 

[Thraktor]

I am willing to bet large sums is has less than 640 SP's.

we would be talking about more sp's than some durango rumors state (cape verde, which has either 512 or 640 SP's). once again wildly inflating wii u power estimates until it's more powerful than durango (which happens frequently, but is ludicrous)

There are two reasons that comparing SPs against what's expected to be in Durango isn't really appropriate. The first is that, when you're working with a strict power/heat budget, it makes sense to go with more SPs, not less. Let's say Nintendo has set a target of 600GFlops. A 640SP chip at 468MHz and a 480SP chip at 624MHz will both hit that mark, but the former at a lower TDP than the latter.

Secondly, the GCN architecture used in Durango is a lot more transistor-intensive than the VLIW architecture used in the Wii U. As an example, the 4770, a 640SP R700 part, comes in at 826 million transistors, whereas the 7770, a 640SP GCN part, comes in at 1.5 billion. From a cost, heat and power consideration, it's not a like for like comparison.

 

[specialguy]

There are two reasons that comparing SPs against what's expected to be in Durango isn't really appropriate. The first is that, when you're working with a strict power/heat budget, it makes sense to go with more SPs, not less. Let's say Nintendo has set a target of 600GFlops. A 640SP chip at 468MHz and a 480SP chip at 624MHz will both hit that mark, but the former at a lower TDP than the latter.

Secondly, the GCN architecture used in Durango is a lot more transistor-intensive than the VLIW architecture used in the Wii U. As an example, the 4770, a 640SP R700 part, comes in at 826 million transistors, whereas the 7770, a 640SP GCN part, comes in at 1.5 billion. From a cost, heat and power consideration, it's not a like for like comparison.

Most of these people (who think 640 SP's) also think the Wii U uses a e6760 not r700. That's a DX11 part.

I'm aware of the rest but it does not change the facts all that much. The conclusion is the Wii GPU will have more SP's than possible Durango GPU's.

This has been going on for months though, anytime Wii U speculation gets wildly optimistic, it becomes more powerful than a mooted durango!

 

[DragonSworne]

On the subject of HDD, what is the largest HDD offered that does not need a power cord of it's own?

I have a usb3.0 1TB drive, but I don't know if it will get power through a usb2.0 slot. :/

 

[Boerseun]

Man, the Nintendo 64 controller was so crazy innovative with all the things you could attach to it:

With some of the early pre-production models you could even run a game cartridge through the controller.

 

[lwilliams3]

Is the durango/cape verde rumor new? First I heard someone saying that the whatever is in Microsoft's next-gen console will be weaker than the processors that the more reasonable people are theorizing.

 

[specialguy]

Is the durango/cape verde rumor new? First I heard someone saying that the whatever is in Microsoft's next-gen console will be weaker than the processors that the more reasonable people are theorizing.

Not new. It goes hand in hand with the "1TF" rumor also.

I've personally developed a second school of thought that the Durango GPU might be quite a bit more powerful than we expect though. Closer to 3 teraflops. This was bolstered by the apparent presence of a 6870 or 6950 in that dev kit as well, although they are near 2tf they are still beefier than expected. but that's just me and some shreds of evidence here and there coupled with rumors durango gpu is unfinished.

 

[snowdog1971]

Not new. It goes hand in hand with the "1TF" rumor also.

I've personally developed a second school of thought that the Durango GPU might be quite a bit more powerful than we expect though. Closer to 3 teraflops. This was bolstered by the apparent presence of a 6870 or 6950 in that dev kit as well, although they are near 2tf they are still beefier than expected. but that's just me and some shreds of evidence here and there coupled with rumors durango gpu is unfinished.

I can't see Microsoft going for a GPU with anywhere near 3TFLOPS of grunt. That coupled with 6-8GB of RAM is going to cost an arm and a leg even before you start to think about adding Kinect 2.0.

Bgassassin's target specs are a lot more realistic mate.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Looks so smart and still looks so futuristic even now. I love it and is my favourite controller. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[Glorified G]

Bgassassin's target specs are a lot more realistic mate.

His target specs are very vague. The "1+ tflop" is a pretty big range. It's hard to tell what kind of gpu performance they're targeting.

 

[AzaK]

His target specs are very vague. The "1+ tflop" is a pretty big range. It's hard to tell what kind of gpu performance they're targeting.

BG has never said 1TFLOP + AFAIK

 

[XtremeXpider]

BG has never said 1TFLOP + AFAIK

He said it.

 

[Proelite]

Don't expect too much from Durango GPU. The cards in the kits are misleading when it comes to flops.

Paper flops doesn't mean much anyways. Look how Nvidia has consistently outperformed AMD cards with a 25% paper flops advantage.

 

[Brera]

Do we know if it has USB3?

 

[XtremeXpider]

Don't expect too much from Durango GPU.

Why not?

The cards in the kits are misleading when it comes to flops.

Paper flops doesn't mean much anyways. Look how Nvidia has consistently outperformed AMD cards with a 25% paper flops advantage.

Come on...

 

[JAYinHD]

I just hope Microsoft they don't make a system that's too expensive. I'm all about having a good amount of power in a console but with them possibly adding Kinect and the rumor of them having 12GB of ram in the dev kits things would seem to become very costly. Though I'm sure the next Xbox will be stronger than the Wii u I don't think the power gap will be so large.

 

[lwilliams3]

His target specs are very vague. The "1+ tflop" is a pretty big range. It's hard to tell what kind of gpu performance they're targeting.

Apparently, Microsoft is not sharing all of the specs to the devs. This is similar to what Nintendo doing with the Wii U.

 

[blu]

Don't expect too much from Durango GPU. The cards in the kits are misleading when it comes to flops.

Paper flops doesn't mean much anyways. Look how Nvidia has consistently outperformed AMD cards with a 25% paper flops advantage.

Here's an anecdote. I have a Fermi at work and an Evergreen at home. The former is paper-rated at ~6x the floppage of the latter (and ~5x the TDP, but that includes local RAM too). In practice though the Fermi is between 1.5 and 2.5 times faster than the Evergreen in all cases I've bothered to compare those two (that includes both GPGPU and basic graphics scenarios).

 

[AzaK]

Here's an anecdote. I have a Fermi at work and an Evergreen at home. The former is paper-rated at ~6x the floppage of the latter (and ~5x the TDP, but that includes local RAM too). In practice though the Fermi is between 1.5 and 2.5 times faster than the Evergreen in all cases I've bothered to compare those two (that includes both GPGPU and basic graphics scenarios).

Wii U more powerful than Durango and Orbis confirmed! That's how it works right?


Jesus Nintendo, just show us something god damned sexy as a mofo!

 

[The_Lump]

Durango will be comfortably more powerful I'm sure, but not nearly as much some are making out. Have people just forgotten how much all this stuff will cost?? I mean, sure they'll happily take a loss, but not a ps3 style loss.

At the moment, however, it benefits them to be as vague as possible. The more mystery, the more hype. Release/leak some target/devkit specs with big numbers, let the rumours flow, take as much buzz as possible away from Nintendo. Simple, smart business.

Orbis is doing the same to Durango to.

 

[Übermatik]

Do we know if it has USB3?

It doesn't.

 

[Meelow]

Wii U more powerful than Durango and Orbis confirmed! That's how it works right?


Jesus Nintendo, just show us something god damned sexy as a mofo!

Imagine that meltdown lol.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Imagine that meltdown lol.

I can imagine but it won't happen.

 

[The_Lump]

I can imagine but it won't happen.

Sherlock Holmes, ladies and gentlemen.