pieatorium
Member
Well at least one of those is making a vita game
Gamasutra: PlayStation Vita's biggest challenge: Convincing developers
- Thread starter Vic
- Start date
Well at least one of those is making a vita game
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Eh, sort of. Guerilla Cambridge is, not really the same thing.
electroplankton
Banned
None of them is a big game in Japan; plus, Soul Sacrifice is a wild card, it might sell well or just bomb. None of them will crack the 100k, some of them neither 50k.
twentytwo22
Member
I'd bet good money that Soul Sacrifice will cross 100k (including digital sales a la Gravity Daze), and I'd bet even better money that God Eater 2 Vita will cross 100k. But I agree that most of those titles listed won't push many units.
Also, yes, they did do a UMD to Vita program in Japan (I used it a lot), but like most things Sony, support is here-and there, prices are here-and-there, and public knowledge of the program is pretty low.
2 100K sellers in a span of 5-6 months is putrid.
twentytwo22
Member
No opposition from me.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Scheduled games that could possibly sell 100k+ in Japan imo:
PS Vita
10.18.12 Little Battler eXperience W (Level 5)
10.18.12 Legend of Heroes: Zero no Kiseki Evolution (Kadokawa Games)
12.20.12 AKB1/153 Love Election (Bandai)
Nintendo 3DS
10.11.12 Bravely Default: Flying Fairy (Square Enix)
10.11.12 Project X Zone (Bandai)
11.08.12 Animal Crossing: Jump Out (Nintendo)
11.08.12 Nicola Kanshuu: Model * Oshare Audition Platina (Alchemist)
11.15.12 Inazuma Eleven 1-2-3: Endou Mamoru Densetsu (Level 5)
11.22.12 E.X.Troopers (Capcom)
11.29.12 Professor Layton Vs. Ace Attorney (Level 5)
12.13.12 Inazuma Eleven 2: Chrono Stone (Level 5)
12.27.12 Fantasy Life (Level 5)
I wouldn't say a lot of those are likely (none of the Vita tames are imo), but they're all games I could see making it under the best circumstances.
PS Vita
10.18.12 Little Battler eXperience W (Level 5)
10.18.12 Legend of Heroes: Zero no Kiseki Evolution (Kadokawa Games)
12.20.12 AKB1/153 Love Election (Bandai)
Nintendo 3DS
10.11.12 Bravely Default: Flying Fairy (Square Enix)
10.11.12 Project X Zone (Bandai)
11.08.12 Animal Crossing: Jump Out (Nintendo)
11.08.12 Nicola Kanshuu: Model * Oshare Audition Platina (Alchemist)
11.15.12 Inazuma Eleven 1-2-3: Endou Mamoru Densetsu (Level 5)
11.22.12 E.X.Troopers (Capcom)
11.29.12 Professor Layton Vs. Ace Attorney (Level 5)
12.13.12 Inazuma Eleven 2: Chrono Stone (Level 5)
12.27.12 Fantasy Life (Level 5)
I wouldn't say a lot of those are likely (none of the Vita tames are imo), but they're all games I could see making it under the best circumstances.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Gravity Daze is 100k+ shipments+digital, not sales+digital.
Given sellthrough was only 55k (Famitsu), it's likely not even close really.
Don't forget Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
It's not dated yet afaik.
twentytwo22
Member
I have no idea what will happen with AKB or Little Battler, but I can guarantee that the port of ZnK won't come close to 100k.
Where did I say crossed 100k sales + digital? Don't put words in my mouth.
Did it cross 100k in actual sales + digital? Probably not, no, but who the hell knows? It's not possible for us to figure that out.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I think it might, but it's a long shot. The original did around 200k eventually iirc.
I didn't put anything anywhere. In the future be more careful with your word choice so it reflects your intended meaning.
It's exceedingly unlikely to have, that's probably good enough to get the idea.
And if you're just going to retreat to "who the hell knows? It's not possible for us to figure that out?" then why bring up digital in a sales context in the first place?
staticneuron
Member
Why do people bring this up exactly? Shipments are sales to publishers.
And
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/03/28/gravity-rush-crosses-100000-mark-in-japan/
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Not always. Shipped vs sold is a pretty common distinction on GAF anyway, yet people still confuse the two so clairification helps.
metalslimer
Member
Wow, do some people actually think the Vita Japanese lineup is in any way good from a sales perspective? Also, wow at the implication that Sony secretly made Vita to be some niche product and lied to investors and stockholders. "LOL armchair analysts" is the most infuriating thing to read in a sales thread because its a juvenile attempt to end the discussion without actually providing decent counterarguments.
Well it is interesting to see people who don't at all follow Japanese sales think is big over there.
Well it is interesting to see people who don't at all follow Japanese sales think is big over there.
twentytwo22
Member
Are you kidding me? The ONLY digital sales I brought up were the ones we knew.
In the future be more careful with my word choice? Where did I say anything about actual sales? All I stated was that we don't know. This is a fact, we don't know. All we know is how many were shipped. If you want to jump to the conclusion that I was talking about sell-through (numbers that we have never had) instead of the normal numbers that we ALWAYS use, in the future you should learn to read a bit more carefully.
H_Prestige
Banned
LOL at people who still think Vita sales will improve.
Forget about third parties. Not even Sony knows what the point of this device is.
Forget about third parties. Not even Sony knows what the point of this device is.
What are you talking about? The original debuted second the week it was released.
At a whopping 29,000
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Okay, so what were the Gravity Rush digital sales?
The only Vita digital sales I remember ever being cited were Project Diva f, which was roughly 10% of retail it's first week, which is evidently the platform's average for digital vs physical in Japan.
We were talking sales at every point in the discourse on JP games. Sorry you seem confused with that, but it's not my problem you were unable to convey what you were talking about.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Actually compared with their custom designed 'Kutaragi systems' the Vita in terms of hardware was quite a simple system, they are definitely being more sensible in that approach which is a good sign for PS4, Yoshida said in an interview that they are continuing this philosophy with the their next system, powerful hardware but simple design using off the shelf components, this cuts down on the cost of R&D by a large margin.
metalslimer
Member
Well compared to Kutaragi anything looks good. They designed the system to the point where the price is stuck at 250 now and no one is interested. Now they have to go a holiday season at the price no one is buying at. A PSP 1.5 that released in 2011 may not be what many people wanted, but it certainly would be doing a lot better in Japan and be garnering a lot more support (any maybe even 3DS mutliplats) than what Vita is going to get.
staticneuron
Member
My only problem with this is that in Japan, The current install base for the Vita is 970k and the current install base for the 3DS is 7.4 million (m create numbers). So comparing the titles that may possibly sell over 100k becomes very skewed.
For the Vita those sales means either 10% of the base is interested in a title or there are new owners. For the 3DS it is more like 1.4% of the base.
A very obvious issue with all this talk and the 100k comparison is simply historical sales for the companies hardware. Nintendo has a huge history of thier base buying specific titles or genre's in large amounts. Sony history shows that consumers purchase smaller amounts over many different genre's and franchises. Simply looking at the numbers makes these comparisons silly because a company with a history like that will not expect any one title to have outrageous sales so they plan accordingly. This is most likely why sony isn't going crazy in acquiring titles nor throwing more money at advertising than needed. Looking back at the past, simply shows that that may be a waste.
Sony isn't nintendo and their base certainly isn't the same. The idea that sony should follow nintendo or can be compared directly to nintendo is most likely a biased view on the situation and how the base works for each company.
I guess so but in the large scheme of things the big three don't make their money initially from the consumers but more from sales (aka shipments) to retailers. What is desirable is the rate in which the consumers purchase the titles which in turn has the retailers order more.
metalslimer
Member
What's with this strawman about comparing Sony to Nintendo or Vita to 3DS/DS? How about we just compare it to the PSP? Or does that thing not exist anymore?
Last Hearth
Member
And those people are wrong.
Sure it not a good idea to let the marketing determine the product by themselves, but I think evidence has shown that just letting the engineers run wild is equally bad if not worse. In the end, the two groups have a work together, you have to have a well designed product that is also marketable and fit into what the market demands.
The engineers don't work in their basements on a hobby, they are employed by a commercial company and the products their design needs to have commercial success. in order for the company to survive and thrive.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
But yet I continued the discussion, and I didn't say they lied to investors and stockholders, I said I believed they they exaggerated the figures, or were at least overly optimistic about them, everyone can jump on me if they want but yes, I do get a little tired of 'armchair analysts' thinking they know what's best for Sony or any other company for that matter, I probably should of kept that statement to myself, but people lol when I suggest Sony may of exaggerated initial sales expectations but then in the next minute people try to convince me they are lying about their recent statement where by they say it's in line with their expectations in some regions and slightly under performing in others.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
i dont think it can be successful in the west, unless they integrate it into a phone or some shit.
japan. who knows.
japan. who knows.
metalslimer
Member
What do you think the job of PR people is to do? Do you think they going to go on and on about how badly Vita is doing? We have direct evidence of what they wanted, so yes PR is lying like they always do. Sony PR recently said they wouldn't have done anything differently with the PS3 even though they lost over 4 billion dollars. You really think PR is truthful all the time? You don't trust PR over the actual company expectations given out.
It doesn't even take a real analyst to be able to tell you that you don't fuck around with financial reports. Now if Vita was projected to sell 10 million and sold 9 million that would be a slight exaggeration or slight mistep in predictions. They are probably going to be off by more than half.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Is that why it has overpriced proprietary memory cards required to play games. You think this model carries over to the PS4?
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
ok, everybody jump on board, in the mean time I'm taking some time away from the forum sorry, this thread has highlighted the deficiencies I have when trying to debate and it's stressed me out a little and need some time away.
DragonSworne
Banned
PS4 is going to face the same problem...
I can understand the comparison because honestly any potential new owner of a Vita is going to either consider the 3DS or already has a 3DS and is wondering if they should bother with the Vita because of that. The comparison is valid because they are both new handhelds on the market and they are going to be competing.
Unfortunately for Vita PSP is also a valid comparison since Sony and third parties are still shooting PSP support. At the very least all new PSP titles should be available on Vita day one, yet here I am FFthreeless on my Vita and missing many major psp releases.
I think the original quote in question is so telling of whats wrong with Sony but yet no one should really be surprised and should have already figured this out. PSP has a good library, but look how hard it was to get there and alot of the major games seemed to have been a chore to get out (and FF Type Zero;s case not at all in US). Third party support on PSP wasn't all together stellar and yet Sony STILL expected to just release Vita and have automatic support??
You seriously have to ask what the hell is wrong the executives in that company making the decisons. They suddenly forgot how they had to fight for support for the PSP, they didn't have anything lined up for Vita with the major companies, did they even try? I said it before and I will say it again, the biggest problem for PSP and the biggest problem with Vita is Sony themselves and their complete ineptitude. I have never in all my years of gaming since Atari 2600, to the E.T. video game crash, to 3D0, to Saturn have I ever seen a company deliberately sabotage their own console release. And i'm not talking the apathy or lack of support from Sony like a lack of games, pomp and circumstance or show of faith at E3 not even a couple months after release. I'm not talking no advertising at all on TV or acknowledgment of "Hey consumers, we have a new console on the market, buy it!"
I'm talking about actively working against your own machine and its potential. I'm talking having PS1 support there on your machine, but then only putting 8 of them on the store and making your consumers work around you to get their games to work. Same thing with PSP BC at launch and now. The most blatant and downright worst example that Sony refuses to even comment on recently being not releasing FF 3 PSP on the vita store, having it downloadable as a workaround that worked in the past and then a couple hours later closing that hole to your Vita owners. That's not even anti-consumer, thats being a dickish asshat to your consumers.
Sony at one point was recognized as a bit of a champion to gamers consumerism with region free gaming and being open and active with their base. Vita though is just so off base with Sony at this point you can only cry or laugh. I'm not going to sit back and shit rainbows, bunnies and happiness for Sony making up excuses or defending them. I love the Vita too much to do that, I want to see it succeed and I feel there is still time. Many people don't remember, I was with the PSP from launch and there was a good year or two of doom and gloom there. Sony has time to get some support together for it and fix things up but they need to be told, its quite obvious they don't learn from mistakes.
DragonSworne
Banned
What's funny is that PSV has 4 GB of internal flash memory already!
But Sony won't let it be used for game saves to force people to buy expensive memory cards.
How people can support this is beyond me. It's pure BS.
Anyway, back to PSV. I think Sony let the success of PSPin Japan convince themselves that there would be worldwide support for PSV.
PSP became irrelevent 3 years ago in the western world. Game sales died and piracy took over. No one cared about PSP outside if Japan anymore. This is what caused the lack of hype and sales for PSV.
staticneuron
Member
You do know what a "Strawman" is right? Do I really need to quote posts here?
Sure, why not. The PSP best selling game is MHP3rd at 4.2 million and that would make it around 6% worldwide and less than 25% (which the franchise is an exception) but normally even comparing ALL of Sony consoles you will see the numbers don't climb that high in terms of tie ratio.
The thing is, the longer the device is on the market the better things look for Sony consoles. Nobody thought the PSP would sell as much as it did after the release. People were just as harsh on the PSP. And then the PS3. And now the Vita.
As always, people care about games. The games are lacking but the Vita hasn't even had a full year on the market outside of Japan, there are many anticipated games being released next month and yet people are spelling out doom.
I simply see this as a repeat of things I have seen before. Even all the talk about how the situations have changed..... they haven't really changed that much. Especially if people are going to argue the case about tablets and phones, simply because of the nature of games released on each device.
I agree that the PSP has a good library. But it wasn't there within the first year and Sony took focus away the next year to promote the PS3. If you have been paying attention to the media and what is being said, it is a pointless battle for Sony to combat everything on all fronts. Most likely the are working on games and have companies contracted to make many games for Vita. I am willing to bet that there is an increase on development time for this hardware hence the relative silence on many fronts. What has happened in the past is that Sony has been torn apart for announcing games far to early which led to some "frustrations" in the feedback they received. They announce nothing or choose to announce titles closer to release date and then they get the same type of hate. In certain regions the reactions to what sony does is very different so logically, they work on the area's that are favorable and the other areas get what they can muster. It has been proven on thier end that games are what gets them the most results and attention while their PR and adverts have caused them trouble.
metalslimer
Member
God this is narrative gets repeated so much and its still so wrong. PSP sold extremely well at launch.
DragonSworne
Banned
And it sold well and got so much support because of Sony's name. Sony's reputation isn't what it used to be, and it's showing with the PSV. things will only get worse because ot the failed PSV.
The real miracle of last gen was the DS.
Yeah, that's my view. Slim it down to PSPgo size, but we're talking years before that is possible.
staticneuron
Member
Yes the PSP sold well. I purchased one at launch as well. But the narrative and the talk of media and gamers alike within the first year turned to criticisms of the library and then shortly after that negative opinions about its legs against the NDS. Of course you can argue that the opinions before and at launch time were high, but do you honestly remember them "Staying" that way within the first year?
metalslimer
Member
Well then that's completely different than Vita. PSP had a narrative against it once the DS took off. Vita has a narrative against it because its selling abysmally. Hell even in Japan Vita reached a point that the PSP has NEVER sold. Vita has already in its first year topped the lows of the PSP in the past 7. This situation is nothing remotely like the PSP or even the PS3 for that matter.
H_Prestige
Banned
And ps3 had the best third party support of any console before it even launched. So much so that even launching at 599 didn't kill it.
staticneuron
Member
It is somewhat similar because the majority of peoples complaints (for both the Vita and the PS3) are about the library. That in turns colors many peoples opinion about purchasing the consoles.
People don't just buy consoles just because "other" people are buying them. People purchase consoles once they find a reason for themselves and that normally revolves around a title or franchise.
You see it in every thread. Every time the vita was mentioned in gaf over the past year people are curious about the games. For the PSP it was about the library and the lack of exclusive or portable like titles, and for the PS3 it was about whether or not the games justified the price of the machine.
This is not exclusive to Sony either. But library is a bigger issue for them at first because people don't know what to expect.
What didn't kill the PS3 was the fact that people were still eager over the next "playstation" home console and some purchased it because it was the cheapest blu ray player at the time. The opinions about the consoles were the same but this time the Vita didn't get a tremendous boost of the PS name alone.
Do you think 3rd parties think this way?
H_Prestige
Banned
On top of being the followup to the ps2, it was announced with FFXIII, Versus, MGS4, DMC, RE, GTA, etc. The same franchises that propelled the ps1 and ps2. And then there's the movie/media capabilities. And full BC with ps1/ps2. It's only problem was the price, hence why the sales picked up so much once it was out of the 499/599 territory. I paid 499 for mine and I didn't feel like I bought a paperweight because I knew it had a future and it did things that were well beyond what other set top boxes at the time were offering.
The vita OTOH, has fuck all in terms of game support. It's BC is spotty. It has fuck all in terms of app support and can't compete with actual smartphones and tablets in terms of extra-gaming functionality. The problem isn't the price, which is actually decent if you ask me for such a limited device. Sony could drop it to 150 tomorrow and it would accomplish nothing. The mass market is not interested in this device; it offers nothing they want or need. And if Sony didn't have their head so far up their ass, they would have realized years ago that a followup to the psp is a terrible idea. It's only selling point over a smartphone is "AAA" gaming, and it fails in that too because there are hardly any games and nothing suggests it will get any games next year or beyond. In all other respects it's inferior to a typical smartphone or tablet.
Canis lupus
Member
Why would it.
electroplankton
Banned
Funny to read that when a large share of PSP software came from the Monster Hunter brand, which had the only million seller title on the platform.
chertipros
Member
? Why would it? Unlike the PS vita, the PS4 will actually have a ton of multi plats
If you read the Vita OT, now on its 5th incarnation, you'll find Vita owners who are not only enjoying the hell out of the system, but also surprised about how many good games there are for it. Best handheld gaming hardware ever designed, with some of the best handheld games ever made. All the trolling and doomsaying doesnt change that. Even if the closet managers parading around here are right, even if the Vita disappears a year from now, the Vita will still be what it is. Great hardware with some great games. It probably will never become what it coudl've become, but it's still damn fun.
OK boys, go ahead back to your trolling and bickering...
OK boys, go ahead back to your trolling and bickering...
This is a thread about Vita's ability to attract 3rd party support. That necessarily leads to discussion on Vita's sales, which are historically bad.
If you want to discuss Vita's software in terms of your personal taste and enjoyment, the Vita OT seems like the perfect place to do so.
I am struggling to understand how a serious discussion on Vita's sales and software failure in a thread clearly designated as such should cause you or any other satisfied Vita owner to be upset.
If you had people coming into the Vita OT thread to troll and talk about Vita's sales, then that poster should be banned.
But other than that, this persecution complex you and others seem to have in sales threads gets more and more ridiculous every passing month.
Who here said otherwise? And read the post above mine.
Wyndstryker
Member
You can't troll facts.
Fact is Vita is selling abysmally. At the same level of the DC. And while many people loved the DC, it died. Can the same situation be applied? Sure. People love the Vita but the fact is, it's not selling and lighting the charts on fire. Will it get that hit game? who knows.
People need to understand this bit first. In order for the Vita to have a million seller in Japan it needs well over a million Vita's sold to do it. They literally can't have a million seller there until people buy ALOT Vita's. That is only going to happen if something sets the charts on fire.
Fact is Vita is selling abysmally. At the same level of the DC. And while many people loved the DC, it died. Can the same situation be applied? Sure. People love the Vita but the fact is, it's not selling and lighting the charts on fire. Will it get that hit game? who knows.
People need to understand this bit first. In order for the Vita to have a million seller in Japan it needs well over a million Vita's sold to do it. They literally can't have a million seller there until people buy ALOT Vita's. That is only going to happen if something sets the charts on fire.