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[staticneuron]

Do you think 3rd parties think this way?

3rd parties wouldn't compare like that, their research would be more targeted.

On top of being the followup to the ps2, it was announced with FFXIII, Versus, MGS4, DMC, RE, GTA, etc. The same franchises that propelled the ps1 and ps2. And then there's the movie/media capabilities. And full BC with ps1/ps2. It's only problem was the price, hence why the sales picked up so much once it was out of the 499/599 territory. I paid 499 for mine and I didn't feel like I bought a paperweight because I knew it had a future and it did things that were well beyond what other set top boxes at the time were offering.

The vita OTOH, has fuck all in terms of game support. It's BC is spotty. It has fuck all in terms of app support and can't compete with actual smartphones and tablets in terms of extra-gaming functionality. The problem isn't the price, which is actually decent if you ask me for such a limited device. Sony could drop it to 150 tomorrow and it would accomplish nothing. The mass market is not interested in this device; it offers nothing they want or need. And if Sony didn't have their head so far up their ass, they would have realized years ago that a followup to the psp is a terrible idea. It's only selling point over a smartphone is "AAA" gaming, and it fails in that too because there are hardly any games and nothing suggests it will get any games next year or beyond. In all other respects it's inferior to a typical smartphone or tablet.

I agree with you for the most part but in all honesty, you were on the smaller end of gamers during the launch of the PS3. Gamers still heard the announcements but still asked the question of if it was worth it or not. Many shared their very loud opinions that it wasn't.

As far as the Vita goes, I always find this to be an interesting topic of conversation. WHY would you compare it to a smartphone or tablet? It is not one of those products it is not advertised nor expected to be one of those products, it is not sold alongside those products.

If someone is in the market for a tablet... they are not going to look at a smartphone or gaming console. If someone is on the market for a phone ... they... well, you can see where I am going with this right?

None of the products we mention are impulse purchases. Phones come with plans (or a high cost outside of one), Tablets live and die on OS/features, Game devices rely on games.

I have no problem with the Apps for the Vita (does anyone really?), I don't care about BC, I find it a bit silly to put wear and tear on a newer console just to play older generation titles and the only thing I understand you on are the games part..... but not so much. Sony, at least with the PSP and the PS3, has a habit of only announcing a very few, very select amount of games way before release date. I see the same happening here with the Vita and I doubt we will get much in the way of a heads up until the next trade show.

So for now out of the 50 or so titles scheduled for release on the Vita, I can only see 12 of them scheduled for next month alone, 5 more to be released by year end and tentative release dates on the rest.

I wouldn't say the Vita has "No" games support but maybe the games on the horizon don't interest you. That is always the crux of the matter in the end.

Funny to read that when a large share of PSP software came from the Monster Hunter brand, which had the only million seller title on the platform.

There are 17 titles that have been recorded as selling over a million. 4 of them are Monster Hunter titles but the franchise is in no way the "only" million seller on the PSP.

You can't troll facts.

Fact is Vita is selling abysmally. At the same level of the DC. And while many people loved the DC, it died. Can the same situation be applied? Sure. People love the Vita but the fact is, it's not selling and lighting the charts on fire. Will it get that hit game? who knows.

People need to understand this bit first. In order for the Vita to have a million seller in Japan it needs well over a million Vita's sold to do it. They literally can't have a million seller there until people buy ALOT Vita's. That is only going to happen if something sets the charts on fire.

Can't troll facts but you can use then to create flawed correlations. You are correct about the million seller bit but comparing the Vita to the DC is not only premature but I doubt it will ever go down the same way. Sega did not have the resources to compete and exited the market entirely (that in addition to a few other issues not worth getting into here). Sony most likely won't ever have that problem and especially will be far more successful courting third party support.

 

[Kazerei]

The thing is, the longer the device is on the market the better things look for Sony consoles. Nobody thought the PSP would sell as much as it did after the release. People were just as harsh on the PSP. And then the PS3. And now the Vita.

I agree that the PSP has a good library. But it wasn't there within the first year and Sony took focus away the next year to promote the PS3.

Yes the PSP sold well. I purchased one at launch as well. But the narrative and the talk of media and gamers alike within the first year turned to criticisms of the library and then shortly after that negative opinions about its legs against the NDS. Of course you can argue that the opinions before and at launch time were high, but do you honestly remember them "Staying" that way within the first year?

You see it in every thread. Every time the vita was mentioned in gaf over the past year people are curious about the games. For the PSP it was about the library and the lack of exclusive or portable like titles, and for the PS3 it was about whether or not the games justified the price of the machine.

Huh? The PSP had great software support announced from the beginning.

I don't know what you're trying to say, that the PSP started off weak and was criticized for awhile, but then got better? So maybe the Vita can do the same?

The PSP started off pretty strong, and kept going in Japan thanks to Monster Hunter. Vita is nowhere near in the same position.

 

[metalslimer]

This is how every Vita sales thread seems to end up. People (rightfully) pointing out how abysmal Vita sales are software and hardware, and a bunch of people talking about how much they love Vita and its games. Also I can't be the only one somewhat creeped out by the almost human attributes given to Vita, but maybe it is just me.

There are 17 titles that have been recorded as selling over a million. 4 of them are Monster Hunter titles but the franchise is in no way the "only" million seller on the PSP.

You were responding to a post about Japan and in Japan MH was the only million selller.

I wouldn't say the Vita has "No" games support but maybe the games on the horizon don't interest you. That is always the crux of the matter in the end.

Apparently the market shares the same opinion.

 

[H_Prestige]

If someone is in the market for a tablet... they are not going to look at a smartphone or gaming console. If someone is on the market for a phone ... they... well, you can see where I am going with this right?

This isn't true. People can be int the market for a lot of different things. And most people don't have infinite money so they have to pick and choose what they buy.

Personally I could buy a Wii U this holiday. It seems amusing. Or I could use the money to upgrade to the new iphone. Two totally different things, but I can't buy both. So I have to choose. I'll go with the iphone because it offers far more utility than a game console which has a high likelihood of becoming a $300 paperweight after the initial enjoyment.

 

[Wyndstryker]

Can't troll facts but you can use then to create flawed correlations. You are correct about the million seller bit but comparing the Vita to the DC is not only premature but I doubt it will ever go down the same way. Sega did not have the resources to compete and exited the market entirely (that in addition to a few other issues not worth getting into here). Sony most likely won't ever have that problem and especially will be far more successful courting third party support.

Taken from one of the Media Create threads. Until the Vita gets out of the same sales pattern of the DC then it's going nowhere. Doesn't matter what Sony's position is cause they still have to actually get the Vita out of the rut. Until that happens the fact is, it's at the same level of the DC. Will it change? Who knows. But that doesn't change the current situation.

 

[Ponn]

Huh? The PSP had great software support announced from the beginning.

I don't know what you're trying to say, that the PSP started off weak and was criticized for awhile, but then got better? So maybe the Vita can do the same?

The PSP started off pretty strong, and kept going in Japan thanks to Monster Hunter. Vita is nowhere near in the same position.

I can't speak for Japan, but in the US the Vita, games wise, is tracking eerily close to PSP. They both had stellar launch lineups that though big and good were panned for not having the system selling hit "like Mario" (which, tangently I think is a bullshit argument) filled with some ports. Then after launch a very weak games lineup with nothing in sight. The only stand out releases after were MX ATV and Hot Shots. PSP did have an advantage by E3 with I believe at least Crisis Core annoouncement and then for the holidays/late summer GTA LCS with Death Jr. getting some fans desperate for games hype but falling flat. I kind of compare that with Gravity Rush on Vita, they are both ok but with some serious flaws that are overlooked by hyped fans but panned by non-owners. By GTA I think its harder to track PSP sales with software because thats about when the first hack came out.

The main problem in this timeline is by now we should have had announced support from the major third parties, a FF/KH title, something more from capcom then fighters and maybe a MGS. I feel AC:L and to an extent COD are like GTA for PSP, that was the "this is going to sell systems" game.

 

[SmokedMeat]

You can't troll facts.

Fact is Vita is selling abysmally. At the same level of the DC. And while many people loved the DC, it died. Can the same situation be applied? Sure.

Lucky for Vita it has Sony backing it and not Sega. Sure Dreamcast died. So did Saturn, Sega CD, and 32X. Sega had no problems pulling the plug early on their systems.

I've yet to see Sony pull the plug on one of their game systems, and I don't think it's going to start with Vita. I'm sure that would make a lot of people on here happy, because they take special enjoyment in beating the dead horse about all of Vita's problems.

I do hope that Sony can convine more publishers to jump on bard, but if not I'm totally fine with this being a system largely supported by Sony's first party offerings. I'm excited for Killzone, and would like to pick up LBP. I'm thrilled knowing that at some point I may get a new God of War game or a new Motorstorm.

I would've loved to see the enormous amount of doom and gloom threads Gaf would've had during the N64, Turbografx, and Dreamcast eras.

 

[H_Prestige]

Lucky for Vita it has Sony backing it and not Sega. Sure Dreamcast died. So did Saturn, Sega CD, and 32X. Sega had no problems pulling the plug early on their systems.

I've yet to see Sony pull the plug on one of their game systems, and I don't think it's going to start with Vita. I'm sure that would make a lot of people on here happy, because they take special enjoyment in beating the dead horse about all of Vita's problems.

I do hope that Sony can convine more publishers to jump on bard, but if not I'm totally fine with this being a system largely supported by Sony's first party offerings. I'm excited for Killzone, and would like to pick up LBP. I'm thrilled knowing that at some point I may get a new God of War game or a new Motorstorm.

I would've loved to see the enormous amount of doom and gloom threads Gaf would've had during the N64, Turbografx, and Dreamcast eras.

Sony has never had a system that needed it's plug pulled out in the first place....

....until now...

 

[Cassius]

I feel like the price of the hardware is completely justified, it's a nice kit.

It's too bad there isn't enough software in the foreseeable future to think about buying one.

I'm still interested in the system, but so far it looks like a pipe dream.

 

[metalslimer]

Sony has never had a system that needed it's plug pulled out in the first place....

....until now...

I actually wonder if people think they can expect the level of presentation and excellence that Sony usually pumps into their first party titles on Vita. I mean does anyone think Gravity Rush was actually profitable? For that matter was Uncharted profitable? On a userbase as pathetic as Vita's Sony isn't going to keep investing millions of dollars into titles that will barely make back their money. They have a much more important system to worry about, the PS4 which is going to suck Sony's development towards something that will actually bring in cash.

I feel like the price of the hardware is completely justified, it's a nice kit.

I don't think most people would argue that the price is not justified. At the same time, the 599 was completely justified because the PS3 costs over 700 dollars to build at launch.

I wouldn't think so. I think the interest of the market can be assessed accurately "after" the titles are released.

Well we're finally coming up on the only titles announced that have a chance of doing anything in the west (CoD and AC). Although if Vita massively underperforms this holiday WW (which I suspect it will) many people will just switch into the wait for ______ line again.

 

[staticneuron]

Huh? The PSP had great software support announced from the beginning.

I don't know what you're trying to say, that the PSP started off weak and was criticized for awhile, but then got better? So maybe the Vita can do the same?

The PSP started off pretty strong, and kept going in Japan thanks to Monster Hunter. Vita is nowhere near in the same position.

Several points here. I said there were complaints about the library. It wasn't about the amount of games but what were released. If I must I can whip up a quick google search.....

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/28/psp-taking-a-beating-from-ds/

"Sony started strong, but failed to deliver a steady flow of well-rated games in 2005. Nintendo started sluggish, but managed to deliver a series of brilliant games in the second half of the year. One year in, both are neck-to-neck. But in the last six months, Nintendo wins by nearly 3-to-1."

That isn't the most interesting stuff. The comments on that page are a great snapshot of what people were thinking and saying alot at that time. I assure you this wasn't an isolated event. I am just to lazy to go on a historical search here.

As far as PSP sales, yeah it was fine worldwide as far as we can tell from the shipment numbers but it wasn't great in every region. Iirc in NA it had the worst performance for its life on the market and I cannot get firm numbers for Vita worldwide to do the same comparison.

The PSP was criticized from the end of its first year to the rest of its life at least in my region. The idea that it had no exclusive titles and all games were PS2 port were the largest complaints I have seen but in my experience I didn't see that and anyone who played a PSP regularly didn't seem to have that opinion either. But if that type of stuff grows large and is repeated often, it is hard to combat.

This is how every Vita sales thread seems to end up. People (rightfully) pointing out how abysmal Vita sales are software and hardware, and a bunch of people talking about how much they love Vita and its games. Also I can't be the only one somewhat creeped out by the almost human attributes given to Vita, but maybe it is just me.

Lol, I would simply imagine it is the reaction of some simply to reject how bad things are. For me when I read these threads and I look back I simply don't believe things will stay dire because of how sony operates and the good relationship with third parties. Will the Vita ever set the charts on fire? I have no idea. Maybe not. But I don't think it will get "worse". As in a total lack of interest people will pick one up when they see that a game they like (or a few) have been released.

You were responding to a post about Japan and in Japan MH was the only million selller.

Ahh. I missed that! Sorry electroplankton!

Apparently the market shares the same opinion.

I wouldn't think so. I think the interest of the market can be assessed accurately "after" the titles are released.

This isn't true. People can be int the market for a lot of different things. And most people don't have infinite money so they have to pick and choose what they buy.

Personally I could buy a Wii U this holiday. It seems amusing. Or I could use the money to upgrade to the new iphone. Two totally different things, but I can't buy both. So I have to choose. I'll go with the iphone because it offers far more utility than a game console which has a high likelihood of becoming a $300 paperweight after the initial enjoyment.

So...you confirm what I am saying. You are making a choice on two different devices and their uses separately but not in comparison. Your choice will boil down to, "do I want a smartphone" or "do I want a game console". You are debating the type of device not the device itself. Since you cannot make phone calls and various other features from a Wii U, your choice was made for you.

Taken from one of the Media Create threads. Until the Vita gets out of the same sales pattern of the DC then it's going nowhere. Doesn't matter what Sony's position is cause they still have to actually get the Vita out of the rut. Until that happens the fact is, it's at the same level of the DC. Will it change? Who knows. But that doesn't change the current situation.

Again like I said before, different situations (sega simply couldn't handle it) and relations that Sony have with third parties is much stronger. Interestingly enough you could say it assisted in the demise of the DC but for the Vita's case might actually help it out.

 

[Kazerei]

I can't speak for Japan, but in the US the Vita, games wise, is tracking eerily close to PSP. They both had stellar launch lineups that though big and good were panned for not having the system selling hit "like Mario" (which, tangently I think is a bullshit argument) filled with some ports. Then after launch a very weak games lineup with nothing in sight. The only stand out releases after were MX ATV and Hot Shots. PSP did have an advantage by E3 with I believe at least Crisis Core annoouncement and then for the holidays/late summer GTA LCS with Death Jr. getting some fans desperate for games hype but falling flat. I kind of compare that with Gravity Rush on Vita, they are both ok but with some serious flaws that are overlooked by hyped fans but panned by non-owners. By GTA I think its harder to track PSP sales with software because thats about when the first hack came out.

The main problem in this timeline is by now we should have had announced support from the major third parties, a FF/KH title, something more from capcom then fighters and maybe a MGS. I feel AC:L and to an extent COD are like GTA for PSP, that was the "this is going to sell systems" game.

Were PSP software sales really that bad? Cause Vita software sales have definitely been abysmal. I only have hardware numbers, which show PSP was selling way better than Vita.

 

[spwolf]

They literally can't have a million seller there until people buy ALOT Vita's. That is only going to happen if something sets the charts on fire.

you do realize that big games would sell Vita's, right? Hardware bundles and all that... it happens a lot in Japan, thats how they sell a lot of consoles.

 

[nhlducks35]

If you read the Vita OT, now on its 5th incarnation, you'll find Vita owners who are not only enjoying the hell out of the system, but also surprised about how many good games there are for it. Best handheld gaming hardware ever designed, with some of the best handheld games ever made. All the trolling and doomsaying doesnt change that. Even if the closet managers parading around here are right, even if the Vita disappears a year from now, the Vita will still be what it is. Great hardware with some great games. It probably will never become what it coudl've become, but it's still damn fun.

OK boys, go ahead back to your trolling and bickering...

Who said any of that? We're talking about sales...

 

[wazoo]

You can't troll facts.

Fact is Vita is selling abysmally. At the same level of the DC. And while many people loved the DC, it died. Can the same situation be applied? Sure. People love the Vita but the fact is, it's not selling and lighting the charts on fire. Will it get that hit game? who knows.

DC sold 2M in Japan quite fast (and then stalled). Vita is far from that. You havr to remember that DC end up at 8M before being discontuned worldwide 18M after its US launch. Also, DC had lost of games for only so few years on market.

 

[Wyndstryker]

you do realize that big games would sell Vita's, right? Hardware bundles and all that... it happens a lot in Japan, thats how they sell a lot of consoles.

Yeah, I know major games can sell them. But they still need to actually come out on the Vita to sell Vita's. For all we know there can be delays and whatnot. Bundled or not, a game that's not yet out doesn't do much for sales. Once the games come then we can review the situation.

DC sold 2M in Japan quite fast (and then stalled). Vita is far from that. You havr to remember that DC end up at 8M before being discontuned worldwide 18M after its US launch. Also, DC had lost of games for only so few years on market.

That just makes the Vita situation looks worse if we got into the specifics regarding the DC.

 

[electroplankton]

I am struggling to understand how a serious discussion on Vita's sales and software failure in a thread clearly designated as such should cause you or any other satisfied Vita owner to be upset.

If you had people coming into the Vita OT thread to troll and talk about Vita's sales, then that poster should be banned.

But other than that, this persecution complex you and others seem to have in sales threads gets more and more ridiculous every passing month.

Indeed. Persecution complex seems the perfect way to describe posts like that. You love your Vita? Fine, but not many people seem to think that way, given that no one is really buying it. Than I have a theory such that someone is trying to convince himself Vita is the greatest handheld hardware ever, and it has so many games that it's difficult to manage them, but that's just my thought.

 

[Sandfox]

I honestly don't think there is anything Sony can do to make the Vita take off. In japan there is seemingly no title they could announce that would boost popularity without them getting lucky like they did with MH. And in the west, handhelds are a much harder sell, and the one thing people used the PSP for, Smartphones can do now.

 

[Spirit Icana]

Little Sony was not the best student in Sunday school.
Usually she slept through the class.

One day the third parties called on her while she was napping, "Tell me, Sony, who created the universe?"

When Sony didn't stir, little Ninty, a boy seated in the chair behind her, took a pin and jabbed her in the rear. "GOD ALMIGHTY!" shouted Sony and the third parties said, "Very good" and Sony fell back asleep.

A while later the teacher asked Sony, "Who is our Lord and Saviour," But, Sony didn't even stir from her slumber. Once again, Ninty came to the rescue and stuck her again. 'JESUS CHRIST!" shouted Sony and the third parties said, "very good," and Sony fell back to sleep.

Then the third parties asked Sony a third question. "What did Eve say to Adam after she had her twenty-third child?" And again, Ninty jabbed her with the pin. This time Sony jumped up and shouted, "IF YOU STICK THAT FREAKING THING IN ME ONE MORE TIME, I'LL BREAK IT IN HALF AND STICK IT UP YOUR ARSE!"

The Third Parties fainted.

So that's what happened folks. This scoop was ripped and edited from best jokes dot com.

 

[Ponn]

Were PSP software sales really that bad? Cause Vita software sales have definitely been abysmal. I only have hardware numbers, which show PSP was selling way better than Vita.

That first year was pretty damn rough. You had a great starting lineup, then a pretty big draught, then came the Nintendo fans mercilessly eviscerating Sony fans, and rightfully so, for PSP slumping and not being the hot shit. Death Jr. being the glimmer of hope in a sea of nothing even getting a neat soundtrack bundle. Does anyone even remember Death Jr.? yea. Remember when they were talking about turning it into some big franchise with merchandise, tv show and comics? yea. Then attention focused entirely on LCS. Which was ok, and moved some systems. Like I said though I think its hard for anyone to correlate HW sales to Software at that point with the hacks. People flipping their shit at emulation on a handheld.

PSP recovered though, the hardware was out there at least, even if people were only buying it for the hacks. At least it was an install base. My worry is even with the software lineups matching right now with some hits slated for the holidays its the dead silence after the holidays which worries me. GTA LCS was ok, but as a PSP owner I had Crisis Core, Birth By Sleep and some RPG's to look forward to. Didn't even hear about Monster Hunter at that point.

Thats a point I think people forget about with all the "No monster on vita then its doomed" brigade. Monster Hunter wasn't there at launch, I don't even remember it being announced at that point. For all we know Soul Sacrifice might end being a system seller putting up monster hunter numbers. Better yet theres an unannounced title that will be the hot shit system seller. Who knows. I do know Sony has got to get their shit together when like when they finally admitted PSP was really slumping and go after third party developers and reassure their consumers. That actually worked and the fact this article shows they didn't even get this lined up from the start is infuriating and baffling.

 

[Father_Brain]

Lucky for Vita it has Sony backing it and not Sega. Sure Dreamcast died. So did Saturn, Sega CD, and 32X. Sega had no problems pulling the plug early on their systems.

I've yet to see Sony pull the plug on one of their game systems, and I don't think it's going to start with Vita. I'm sure that would make a lot of people on here happy, because they take special enjoyment in beating the dead horse about all of Vita's problems.

I do hope that Sony can convine more publishers to jump on bard, but if not I'm totally fine with this being a system largely supported by Sony's first party offerings. I'm excited for Killzone, and would like to pick up LBP. I'm thrilled knowing that at some point I may get a new God of War game or a new Motorstorm.

I would've loved to see the enormous amount of doom and gloom threads Gaf would've had during the N64, Turbografx, and Dreamcast eras.

In terms of sales and third-party support, Sony has never had any of its hardware in half as deep a hole as the one Vita is currently in. Therefore, the appeal to history rings about as hollow as the appeal to authority some here were making a few months back. ("Sony is far too large and wise a corporation to have made completely deluded sales projections! They must surely be concealing megaton announcements that will propel Vita to 10 million units this fiscal year!")

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

My only problem with this is that in Japan, The current install base for the Vita is 970k and the current install base for the 3DS is 7.4 million (m create numbers). So comparing the titles that may possibly sell over 100k becomes very skewed.

For the Vita those sales means either 10% of the base is interested in a title or there are new owners. For the 3DS it is more like 1.4% of the base.

Besides the fact that ratio arguments tend to favor smaller userbases (getting 10% of a 900k base is significantly easier than managing 10% on an 8m base), the reason sales-age doesn't compare sales that way is simple: no one cares. Publishers, developers, retailers, trackers, basically the entire industry looks first and foremost at absolute numbers. Because at the end of the day, that's what matters to your bottom line.

This sort of argument is doubly amusing in the context of 3DS versus Vita, given the natural development costs associated with each hardware spec. If anything, 3DS should logically have the lower threshold if you want to go down weighted performance comparisons.

A very obvious issue with all this talk and the 100k comparison is simply historical sales for the companies hardware. Nintendo has a huge history of thier base buying specific titles or genre's in large amounts. Sony history shows that consumers purchase smaller amounts over many different genre's and franchises. Simply looking at the numbers makes these comparisons silly because a company with a history like that will not expect any one title to have outrageous sales so they plan accordingly. This is most likely why sony isn't going crazy in acquiring titles nor throwing more money at advertising than needed. Looking back at the past, simply shows that that may be a waste.

Sony isn't nintendo and their base certainly isn't the same. The idea that sony should follow nintendo or can be compared directly to nintendo is most likely a biased view on the situation and how the base works for each company.

Yeah, this is pretty much pure unsubstantiated bullshit. Every major leading platform, be they from Nintendo (FC, SFC, DS) or Sony (PS1, PS2), has a wide diversity of games both at the high and low ends if the sales spectrum.

Trying to distinguish userbase purely based on the name on the box is always a faulty, and most often a fanboyish, sort of argument. You've got your bias backwards here.

I guess so but in the large scheme of things the big three don't make their money initially from the consumers but more from sales (aka shipments) to retailers. What is desirable is the rate in which the consumers purchase the titles which in turn has the retailers order more.

It varies region to region. In the west major retailers almost always hold price protection agreements, where the publisher often has to eat some level of discounting or even buy back stagnant inventory in some cases. In Japan this practice doesn't exist afaik, but having unsold stock is pretty much never something a publisher wants as it can tarnish their brands and also make retailers think twice with the next game they ship. Sellthrough is really in no way less important to a publisher when you get down to it.

 

[Zeth]

Won't the Vita become less attractive as phone and tablet hardware eclipses it handily in the near future?

 

[Kazerei]

Several points here. I said there were complaints about the library. It wasn't about the amount of games but what were released. If I must I can whip up a quick google search.....

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/28/psp-taking-a-beating-from-ds/


That isn't the most interesting stuff. The comments on that page are a great snapshot of what people were thinking and saying alot at that time. I assure you this wasn't an isolated event. I am just to lazy to go on a historical search here.

As far as PSP sales, yeah it was fine worldwide as far as we can tell from the shipment numbers but it wasn't great in every region. Iirc in NA it had the worst performance for its life on the market and I cannot get firm numbers for Vita worldwide to do the same comparison.

The PSP was criticized from the end of its first year to the rest of its life at least in my region. The idea that it had no exclusive titles and all games were PS2 port were the largest complaints I have seen but in my experience I didn't see that and anyone who played a PSP regularly didn't seem to have that opinion either. But if that type of stuff grows large and is repeated often, it is hard to combat.

Comparing review score averages from GameRankings? Heh, some things never change

I thought you meant people were criticizing PSP software sales and performance (which were fine, even in North America), but yeah you're right, there were people criticizing PSP's software library as being watered-down console games and such.

Now opinions are one thing, sales are another. The comparison between PSP and Vita in terms of opinions is a bit similar; strong at launch, then turned negative. But the comparison between PSP and Vita in terms of sales is not similar at all. I think that's the point alot of people are trying to make here.

That first year was pretty damn rough. You had a great starting lineup, then a pretty big draught, then came the Nintendo fans mercilessly eviscerating Sony fans, and rightfully so, for PSP slumping and not being the hot shit. Death Jr. being the glimmer of hope in a sea of nothing even getting a neat soundtrack bundle. Does anyone even remember Death Jr.? yea. Remember when they were talking about turning it into some big franchise with merchandise, tv show and comics? yea. Then attention focused entirely on LCS. Which was ok, and moved some systems. Like I said though I think its hard for anyone to correlate HW sales to Software at that point with the hacks. People flipping their shit at emulation on a handheld.

PSP recovered though, the hardware was out there at least, even if people were only buying it for the hacks. At least it was an install base. My worry is even with the software lineups matching right now with some hits slated for the holidays its the dead silence after the holidays which worries me. GTA LCS was ok, but as a PSP owner I had Crisis Core, Birth By Sleep and some RPG's to look forward to. Didn't even hear about Monster Hunter at that point.

Thats a point I think people forget about with all the "No monster on vita then its doomed" brigade. Monster Hunter wasn't there at launch, I don't even remember it being announced at that point. For all we know Soul Sacrifice might end being a system seller putting up monster hunter numbers. Better yet theres an unannounced title that will be the hot shit system seller. Who knows. I do know Sony has got to get their shit together when like when they finally admitted PSP was really slumping and go after third party developers and reassure their consumers. That actually worked and the fact this article shows they didn't even get this lined up from the start is infuriating and baffling.

Again, I'm not talking about opinions, I'm talking about sales.

Edit: To both of you, bottom line here is, when people said "PSP has no games" that was just their opinion. When people say "Vita has no games" it's kind of a sales fact.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Were PSP software sales really that bad? Cause Vita software sales have definitely been abysmal. I only have hardware numbers, which show PSP was selling way better than Vita.

Not at all, early PSP software sales were surprisingly good and significantly better than DS (or 3DS for that matter). PSP's problem was falling off in later 2005 (besides GTALCS obviously) and flatlining in 2006, while DS had the inverse trajectory.


To give you an idea here's the NPD March 2005 top 5 for handhelds:

Handhelds Title Publisher Projected $'s Projected Units
PSP NEED SPEED:UND RIVALS Electronic Arts $ 5,973,790 121,293
PSP TWISTED METAL:HEAD ON Sony $ 5,034,513 127,403
PSP UNTOLD LEGENDS:BTHRHD Sony $ 4,078,071 103,010
NDS WARIOWARE: TOUCHED! Nintendo $ 3,909,432 113,380
PSP METAL GEAR ACID Konami $ 3,483,612 88,362


This accounts for less than one week of PSP sales. So for some perspective, in less than one week PSP already managed more 100k+ sellers than Vita has in six months.

 

[DragonSworne]

? Why would it? Unlike the PS vita, the PS4 will actually have a ton of multi plats

Given Western and Eastern perferences, PS4 will have a tough time selling to any audience besides fans of Sony first party titles.

Americans perfer gaming on Xbox, and will buy multiplatform games on their system of choice. Eastern gamers perfer gaming on handhelds, and have chosen the 3DS as platform of choice. For home consoles, they might pick WiiU depending on how much Japanese third parties will support the system.

Europe seems to be Sony's only sure bet, but that is not a given considering how poorly PSV is sellng there.


PS4 could end up like the gamecube, it gets mutliplatform games but people buy them on other system and really only play 1st party games on it.

 

[Byakuya769]

If you read the Vita OT, now on its 5th incarnation, you'll find Vita owners who are not only enjoying the hell out of the system, but also surprised about how many good games there are for it. Best handheld gaming hardware ever designed, with some of the best handheld games ever made. All the trolling and doomsaying doesnt change that. Even if the closet managers parading around here are right, even if the Vita disappears a year from now, the Vita will still be what it is. Great hardware with some great games. It probably will never become what it coudl've become, but it's still damn fun.

OK boys, go ahead back to your trolling and bickering...

Dahahahahah. Come on. You can enjoy it to death while not being personally offended by people discussing the dire prospects of it not lasting much longer. For me personally, it does have some games I'm really interested in playing, but I'm not interested in dropping $300+ on something that may not be around longer than another year or two.

 

[wazoo]

In terms of sales and third-party support, Sony has never had any of its hardware in half as deep a hole as the one Vita is currently in. Therefore, the appeal to history rings about as hollow as the appeal to authority some here were making a few months back. ("Sony is far too large and wise a corporation to have made completely deluded sales projections! They must surely be concealing megaton announcements that will propel Vita to 10 million units this fiscal year!")

PSP was a warning after can-do-no-wrong period of ps2. ps3 started weak but saved by multis of 360. Move was a failure but sony found an explanation. psp go was a failure but sony found an explanation. Vita is the next warning, then Sony will tell us that handeld they do not care about it that much.

ps4 launch will be interesting.

 

[Ponn]

Edit: To both of you, bottom line here is, when people said "PSP has no games" that was just their opinion. When people say "Vita has no games" it's kind of a sales fact.

Their both opinion, as a launch owner of BOTH systems I can tell you the first years had similar games. The games are there, but not sellling, because theres not enough Vita owners to buy them.

The difference here is, and I keep trying to stress this, people are comparing sales data for software that is heavily skewed. Of course the PSP had better software sales, there were many more PSP's out there. The quality of the software and down times were equal. Software wise, comparing strictly the amount of PSP titles with strictly Vita games are still equal. Since this is Sony's second handheld that sharss the PSP library you can put it ahead of the PSP at this point even.

So i'm saying even though their paths are pretty equal there is a huge descrepency in HW sales, and its not because of lack of games right now. The system just has such an abysmal hype level, bad word of mouth, lackluster Sony support or reassurance and abysmal third party show of support. If you ask anyone who is half informed on the system who are not buying it they are going to say because they think its dead or dying with no support. That doesn't mean between the PSP, PSone and current and upcoming Vita library there wouldn't be a handful of games they would play.

 

[metalslimer]

Not at all, early PSP software sales were surprisingly good and significantly better than DS (or 3DS for that matter). PSP's problem was falling off in later 2005 (besides GTALCS obviously) and flatlining in 2006, while DS had the inverse trajectory.


To give you an idea here's the NPD March 2005 top 5 for handhelds:

Handhelds Title Publisher Projected $'s Projected Units
PSP NEED SPEED:UND RIVALS Electronic Arts $ 5,973,790 121,293
PSP TWISTED METAL:HEAD ON Sony $ 5,034,513 127,403
PSP UNTOLD LEGENDS:BTHRHD Sony $ 4,078,071 103,010
NDS WARIOWARE: TOUCHED! Nintendo $ 3,909,432 113,380
PSP METAL GEAR ACID Konami $ 3,483,612 88,362


This accounts for less than one week of PSP sales. So for some perspective, in less than one week PSP already managed more 100k+ sellers than Vita has in six months.

Holy shit. Yeah I figured that narrative about PSP software sales being so bad was wrong as well. Honestly the comparisons won't ever stop to previous hardware no matter how wrong they are.

The difference here is, and I keep trying to stress this, people are comparing sales data for software that is heavily skewed. Of course the PSP had better software sales, there were many more PSP's out there

Is this a joke? Did you really just say the reason PSP games sold better and had better software sales was because PSP sold better? I mean....really? Did you just say that without any sarcasm?

 

[Kazerei]

Not at all, early PSP software sales were surprisingly good and significantly better than DS (or 3DS for that matter). PSP's problem was falling off in later 2005 (besides GTALCS obviously) and flatlining in 2006, while DS had the inverse trajectory.


To give you an idea here's the NPD March 2005 top 5 for handhelds:

Handhelds Title Publisher Projected $'s Projected Units
PSP NEED SPEED:UND RIVALS Electronic Arts $ 5,973,790 121,293
PSP TWISTED METAL:HEAD ON Sony $ 5,034,513 127,403
PSP UNTOLD LEGENDS:BTHRHD Sony $ 4,078,071 103,010
NDS WARIOWARE: TOUCHED! Nintendo $ 3,909,432 113,380
PSP METAL GEAR ACID Konami $ 3,483,612 88,362


This accounts for less than one week of PSP sales. So for some perspective, in less than one week PSP already managed more 100k+ sellers than Vita has in six months.

Holy shit x2, I went digging and found this

US DS & PSP SW LTD (through November 2005)

People criticizing PSP's software library within the first year were dumb

 

[Kazerei]

Their both opinion, as a launch owner of BOTH systems I can tell you the first years had similar games. The games are there, but not sellling, because theres not enough Vita owners to buy them.

The difference here is, and I keep trying to stress this, people are comparing sales data for software that is heavily skewed. Of course the PSP had better software sales, there were many more PSP's out there. The quality of the software and down times were equal. Software wise, comparing strictly the amount of PSP titles with strictly Vita games are still equal. Since this is Sony's second handheld that sharss the PSP library you can put it ahead of the PSP at this point even.

So i'm saying even though their paths are pretty equal there is a huge descrepency in HW sales, and its not because of lack of games right now. The system just has such an abysmal hype level, bad word of mouth, lackluster Sony support or reassurance and abysmal third party show of support. If you ask anyone who is half informed on the system who are not buying it they are going to say because they think its dead or dying with no support. That doesn't mean between the PSP, PSone and current and upcoming Vita library there wouldn't be a handful of games they would play.

The paths are not "pretty equal". The lack of games is a huge problem. And by lack of games I mean in terms of sales (not quality or quantity as you keep describing)

Edit: Man ... I give up.

 

[Ponn]

Is this a joke? Did you really just say the reason PSP games sold better and had better software sales was because PSP sold better? I mean....really? Did you just say that without any sarcasm?

When the argument going around is "see vita has not games because their sales numbers are not the same as PSP game sales number at the time" you bet your ass its important. Are you really implying games can be so great they actually sell more then the amount of hardware out there?

The paths are not "pretty equal". The lack of games is a huge problem. And by lack of games I mean in terms of sales.

This statement makes no sense. How can games sell where there is not enough hardware to support the sales, this is so basic I really don't know why some of you are not getting this. It's the chicken before the egg. And thats not even addressing the notion that just because a game doesn't match some competition or former generations numbers they suddenly become non-existent.

 

[metalslimer]

The paths are not "pretty equal". The lack of games is a huge problem. And by lack of games I mean in terms of sales.

But you see those games don't have the sales because the hardware isn't selling well. It all makes sense

When the argument going around is "see vita has not games because their sales numbers are not the same as PSP game sales number at the time" you bet your ass its important. Are you really implying games can be so great they actually sell more then the amount of hardware out there?

Take a second and step back and then realize that when people talk about games from a sales perspective they are talking about games that can actually boost the hardware so that hardware sales aren't abysmal anymore. You and a lot of overdefensive people seem to continually harp on the idea of Vita having so many great games when people are not talking about the quality of the games at all

 

[Ponn]

But you see those games don't have the sales because the hardware isn't selling well. It all makes sense



Take a second and step back and then realize that when people talk about games from a sales perspective they are talking about games that can actually boost the hardware so that hardware sales aren't abysmal anymore. You and a lot of overdefensive people seem to continually harp on the idea of Vita having so many great games when people are not talking about the quality of the games at all

Super-defensive?? Are you kidding me? I'm sure many in the Vita OT thread have put me on ignore because i'm one of the most critical of the Vita. Here, maybe this will make you listen to me better, THE VITA IS DOING BAD!! THE VITA IS DYING!! I know full well the Vita is doing bad and i've spelt out why I think its doing bad, but saying the Vita has no games going strictly by an excel spread sheet is completely stupid. I can go over each and everyone of the top selling PSP games from the first year THAT I OWNED and provide equal or better Vita games out now. Not to mention those sames games and more are available to play on the Vita to boot.

Believe it or not there are other factors keeping Vita from selling. And when the system doesn't sell, follow me here, GAMES DO NOT SELL. Not a crazy concept so stop with the ridicule. We saw a very similar thing with the PSP, or do people keep forgetting the "Oh I want to play that psp game but don't want to buy the system, oh look a PS2 Port for it!" You can't ell me if they made a UC:GA PSN version for PS3 it wouldn't sell. There's many other factors keeping people from buying a Vita system right now.

 

[metalslimer]

Super-defensive?? Are you kidding me? I'm sure many in the Vita OT thread have put me on ignore because i'm one of the most critical of the Vita. Here, maybe this will make you listen to me better, THE VITA IS DOING BAD!! THE VITA IS DYING!! I know full well the Vita is doing bad and i've spelt out why I think its doing bad, but saying the Vita has no games going strictly by an excel spread sheet is completely stupid. I can go over each and everyone of the top selling PSP games from the first year THAT I OWNED and provide equal or better Vita games out now. Not to mention those sames games and more are available to play on the Vita to boot.

Believe it or not there are other factors keeping Vita from selling. And when the system doesn't sell, follow me here, GAMES DO NOT SELL. Not a crazy concept so stop with the ridicule. We saw a very similar thing with the PSP, or do people keep forgetting the "Oh I want to play that psp game but don't want to buy the system, oh look a PS2 Port for it!" You can't ell me if they made a UC:GA PSN version for PS3 it wouldn't sell. There's many other factors keeping people from buying a Vita system right now.

Jesus Christ, quality in your perceived eyes does not translate into the mass market. Vita has no games that appeal to the mass market. End of story. Sales show this and there is no rebuttal to hard facts. It doesn't matter what you think of the PSP and Vita libraries. THe PSP first year library was more appealing at the time than Vita's is now. You have got to be able to separate your own personal opinons o these games from their sales potential. If that doesn't get through, than I guess you'll just have to watch the sales yourself to find out.

 

[Ponn]

Jesus Christ, quality in your perceived eyes does not translate into the mass market. Vita has no games that appeal to the mass market. End of story. Sales show this and there is no rebuttal to hard facts. It doesn't matter what you think of the PSP and Vita libraries. THe PSP first year library was more appealing at the time than Vita's is now. You have got to be able to separate your own personal opinons o these games from their sales potential. If that doesn't get through, than I guess you'll just have to watch the sales yourself to find out.

What was the killer games at PSP launch that caused it to sell so well? If it was only games you can surely tell me this. Untold Legends? Darkstalkers? Lumines? What, which one of them? We have to go completely by sales so it couldn't possibly have been because of a perceived notion that Sony was a juggernaut at the time and could not fail. I mean it was surely the launch games alone that caused everyone to think it was going to finally unthrone Nintendo from the handheld market.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

What was the killer games at PSP launch that caused it to sell so well?

Ridge Racers, Luminies and a promised original GT from PD.

 

[Impeccable]

What are examples of 'system' sellers that are a reasonable acquisition for Sony?

I'm having a hard time thinking of any system sellers in this day and age of gaming outside of "Mario". It's not like Monster Hunter is a global sensation.

 

[metalslimer]

I mean it was surely the launch games alone that caused everyone to think it was going to finally unthrone Nintendo from the handheld market.

Of course yeah I definitely said this. No, the launch games weren't the only thing that caused PSP to sell well. It was the most powerful portable device at the time. It was the hot tech gadget of that time with the promised support of FF7 prequel (this was going to be huge), GTA, GT, etc. But yes the launch was very decent as well and going up against the DS it made it look like shit. Transfer to today and none of what I just said applies to Vita.

What are examples of 'system' sellers that are a reasonable acquisition for Sony?

Well in Japan having God Eater 2 be exclusive would be a big one. Final Fantasy game, Dragon Quest game, Rockstar product, Call of Duty on the level of the console version with crossplay on the PS3 version and cross buy. A bunch of exclusives basically. It wouldn't be a monster success but it wouldn't be selling worse than the dreamcast either.

 

[Kazerei]

Believe it or not there are other factors keeping Vita from selling. And when the system doesn't sell, follow me here, GAMES DO NOT SELL. Not a crazy concept so stop with the ridicule. We saw a very similar thing with the PSP, or do people keep forgetting the "Oh I want to play that psp game but don't want to buy the system, oh look a PS2 Port for it!" You can't ell me if they made a UC:GA PSN version for PS3 it wouldn't sell. There's many other factors keeping people from buying a Vita system right now.

Yeah there are many factors that keep Vita from selling. Software is one of biggest factors.

People buy hardware for the software. The low hardware sales are really a symptom of having no games that sell well, not the other way around.

Pointing out the small install base doesn't excuse the low software sales as being a problem.

And no, we did not see a similar thing with the PSP. It's not even close.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66633

 

[Impeccable]

Well in Japan having God Eater 2 be exclusive would be a big one. Final Fantasy game, Dragon Quest game, Rockstar product, Call of Duty on the level of the console version with crossplay on the PS3 version and cross buy. A bunch of exclusives basically. It wouldn't be a monster success but it wouldn't be selling worse than the dreamcast either.

So essentially a nice line-up of exclusive games in hopes that over time the units sold is gradually increased to an acceptable level?

Not being funny but that's pretty much what they are doing

 

[metalslimer]

So essentially a nice line-up of exclusive games in hopes that over time the units sold is gradually increased to an acceptable level?

Not being funny but that's pretty much what they are doing

Uh in Japan it's not even close. The lineup is horrible (sales wise). In the west, Call of Duty looks like shit which basically leaves Assassin's Creed as the big holiday game. And while it does look good it comes out on the exact same day as one of the biggest games of the year...oh wait its even from the same series.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Don't expect a FF game for Vita. Square kinda dropped the ball on Type 0 IMO.

The reason I think the Vita has been doing poorly is because Sony generally relies on 3rd parties and now that they are pulling away they are in a ditch and aren't adept at climbing out without their 3rd party climbing gear.

Then again I could be completely wrong.

 

[Impeccable]

Uh in Japan it's not even close. The lineup is horrible (sales wise). In the west, Call of Duty looks like shit which basically leaves Assassin's Creed as the big holiday game. And while it does look good it comes out on the exact same day as one of the biggest games of the year...oh wait its even from the same series.

Kind of what I mean by the "Vita" loop of discussion.

Oh well.

 

[Father_Brain]

Kind of what I mean by the "Vita" loop of discussion.

Oh well.

I really don't see how. On October 30, AC fans will have three choices:

-The mainline, big-budget franchise entry on PS3/360 - $60
-The handheld spinoff - $250 (not $40, since only a tiny percentage of the series' audience already owns a Vita)
-Both - $310

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to predict that the overwhelming majority will choose the cheapest option, and that's without getting into the total lack of evidence that there's any significant potential audience for M-rated console-style games on handhelds in 2012.

 

[Skyzard]

I really don't see how. On October 30, AC fans will have three choices:

-The mainline, big-budget franchise entry on PS3/360 - $60
-The handheld spinoff - $250 (not $40, since only a tiny percentage of the series' audience already owns a Vita)
-Both - $310

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to predict that the overwhelming majority will choose the cheapest option, and that's without getting into the total lack of evidence that there's any significant potential audience for M-rated console-style games on handhelds in 2012.

I understand what you are saying but...wow.

People even care about AC ? It can't even be a system seller these days tbh. That would only apply to a really small number of people, in fact the whole post would.

 

[metalslimer]

Kind of what I mean by the "Vita" loop of discussion.

Oh well.

That's because their legitimately are problems with almost every single supposed game that is supposed to push Vitas into people's hands. Call of Duty is popular on consoles because of online between friends. Vita's Call of Duty is noticable worse than the console versions and only runs at 30FPS. Not to mention the fact that you can buy a 360 and CoD Black Ops 2 for cheaper than a Vita and declassified. Assassin's Creed will probably be the best selling title of the holiday, but once again are fans of the series going to plop down 250 bucks to play a spinoff? This is the huge issue with relying on console spinoffs to be the games that drive your system. It's made worse when fans of the series can get the real versions with other system for actually cheaper than the spinoffs. If Black Ops 2 and AC3 were exclusive to Vita I would have no problem saying Vita would be fine this holiday. They aren't.

 

[Ponn]

Of course yeah I definitely said this. No, the launch games weren't the only thing that caused PSP to sell well. It was the most powerful portable device at the time. It was the hot tech gadget of that time with the promised support of FF7 prequel (this was going to be huge), GTA, GT, etc. But yes the launch was very decent as well and going up against the DS it made it look like shit. Transfer to today and none of what I just said applies to Vita.

Don't waffle. You said this while mocking me.

Take a second and step back and then realize that when people talk about games from a sales perspective they are talking about games that can actually boost the hardware so that hardware sales aren't abysmal anymore

Don't mock someone talking in absolutes then suddenly try to add addendum's. Notice you didn't list those killer launch games for me either. It's ok, you don't have to, I was there. And touchscreen was becoming hot at the time as well, some of the very first tablets were coming out at the time. PSP was the most powerful gaming handheld at the time but...

Transfer to today and none of what I just said applies to Vita.

This statement is off base. The Vita is the most powerful gaming handheld. Laptops are more powerful yes but not handhelds. Even iphone 5 has been shown not to beat Vita. If you take the notions of apps Vita is even doing that, with 3G options, wifi, social media, netflix, just about everything. The difference is, like PSP losing to NDS even though PSP was more powerful, everyone and their grandmothers has iphones and smartphones. It's a tough nut to crack and even though BOTH PSP and Vita were the most powerful gaming handhelds at release the Vita is coming out in a new generation of ios eating at this market even if not directly competing with handheld gaming machines. Even Nintendo is feeling the bite. So here we have another thing eating at Vita HW sales.

And then we get to promised support, and thats part of what i'm talking about. You and others kept specifically stating as far as sales data goes Vita has no games. When I claimed of course games sales data are low because the HW sales are abysmal but that doesn't mean it has no games. You start acting like i'm growing another head. It's an incredibly myopic view to take on the situation.

Future support and games announcements are NOT current sales, they are a promise of future support and reassurance to customers that hey, go ahead and buy this system you will be happy. Its one aspect of many that get people to buy systems. Who the hell paid $500 or $600 for a PS3 for fucking Ulimate Alliance. I did, only launch game I got and then I played FF 12. So why did I buy the PS3? Because it was Sony and I assumed future support with the few announcements made and there pedigree.

If the Vita would have been handled much differently at launch with the same exact launch lineup it would have had more sales and we wouldn't have people going "Vita has no games thats why its not selling". And that negative word of mouth is spreading like wildfire and people are buying it. when you look at some of the replies of new owners in the Vita OT thread you will see a common reply from them "Wow, I was told Vita had no games, i'm playing alot of good games" Sony and people that actually give a shit for why a system flounders or does well need to start realizing the real problem with Vita.

People will blame high prices of the Vita and its memory card forgetting PSP was in a very similar position at its launch. The launch lineups are extremely similar. I was playing Darkstalkers, Hot Shots and Lumines for a good 4-6 months after launch. Guess what i'm playing on vita? Hot Shots, Lumines (demo, waiting for digital price drop) and UMvsC3. And some RPG's which I didn't even get till much later in the PSP's life. PSP had GTA LCS, Vita has AC:L and CoD and even had exclusives with UC GA and Res Burning Skies, say what you will about quality of the last one that is still much more than PSP had in its first year.

What i'm saying is stop with the patently false "It has no games" meme and focus on the things that are really effecting it. Lack of good or any Sony support, obtaining assurances from these third parties for support and getting that info out to customers like they did in the 2nd/3rd year of PSP, rebuilding their goodwill with customers and try something, anything to try and counter the heavy negativity surrounding the machine. For gods sake a commercial or two wouldn't hurt Sony, even the dumb ass squirrels. These are mistakes they should have learned from the PSP but obviously didn't and they are feeling it hard and nasty right now because the goodwill, assumption of great support and arrogance they could afford with the PSP did not carry over to Vita. They burnt that bridge over this generation and that is what they forgot and what the OP is about. If they want PS4 not to fail they had better remember that to or they will be in the exact same situation. PS3 had only Bluray and Sony pedigree going for it coming off PS2 but they do not have that going forward.

 

[Man God]

PSP was also hands down the best portable media player in 2005 especially at that price. It sold a ton based on that.