XCOM: Enemy Unknown |OT| Neo GAF is Under Alien Control
- Thread starter Jintor
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Sad thing is I have satellites I just can't launch anymore without a 300 dollar area. It is a vicious cycle my friend.
Incendiary
Banned
I just made 2 hover SHIV's and one came out with an invisible gun. Number 2 has a plasma cannon, but 1 is empty where the gun should be, and the stats don't reflect having a weapon. I'm too chicken to bring it into battle to see if it's actually there or not, it'll probably just sit in my base all game wasting the expensive alloys and elerium I used to make it.
If it doesn't have a weapon on it, don't take it to battle. I learned the hard way when I took a SHIV I built into battle and it didn't have a weapon, and for a few turns I was perplexed as to why I couldn't attack anything with it. Reloaded the save, looked at the two SHIVs I had, realized had one had a weapon and one didn't. I don't know why or how it happens, but it does and it sucks.
ThusZarathustra
Member
The game is incredibly inconsistent in it's gameplay grammar, player communication, surfacing of information and so, so much more. Combined with the RNG being closer-to-broken-than-it-is-fun and the LOS and terrain issues and the game comes off as as much much, more like D&D or other board games than a proper simulation.
I never played the original, so those who did may just see that as being what the game is supposed to be, but I just see broken, masochistic, unstreamlined, clunky design. And that's the thing, I like the game. It think it's really good. But it could have been really, really great. It's so goddamn close to being something timeless.
Boooo, I guess I'll scrap it. Thanks for the heads up though, at least it won't just sit in the barracks forever now.
I decided to try out one of the cheat characters just for fun, ken levine in this case. They made him a sniper but they gave him all the wrong abilities! No double tap, no squad sight, no executioner and they gave him the shitty pistol ability.
What the fuck am I supposed to do with this???
What the fuck am I supposed to do with this???
Ugh. Shooting down the
I mean I haven't lost anybody yet but they are so goddamn tedious to fight inside UFOs or buildings. Out in the open they are sniper bait of course.
I could honestly just end this right now if I wanted to. I think I'll tackle the final mission once I get through this supply barge...but considering what the decoder is telling me is IN this thing, I'm taking a break for tonight.
Ironman classic has been a memorable experience but it's just too damn stressful.
Overseer was a mistake since it triggers the appearance of the final enemy types. I wanted to level up some new guys still, but doing so is pretty goddamn hard now that it's throwing Sectopods into every mission.
I mean I haven't lost anybody yet but they are so goddamn tedious to fight inside UFOs or buildings. Out in the open they are sniper bait of course.
I could honestly just end this right now if I wanted to. I think I'll tackle the final mission once I get through this supply barge...but considering what the decoder is telling me is IN this thing, I'm taking a break for tonight.
Ironman classic has been a memorable experience but it's just too damn stressful.
ThusZarathustra
Member
Line of sight, walls, things like that. There's tons of basic raycasting (among other things) that (seems to me) should be taken into account, but just isn't because (I guess?) "That's how the game is supposed to be".
And that's not even getting into things like enemy placement and discovery on the map itself, which seems again to be closer-to-broken-than-fun.
it's jake solomon's comment on what he thinks of ken levine's xcom, obviously
whalleywhat
Member
I haven't tried this spec at all yet, but I definitely want to next time I play. One of each type of sniper could be pretty good.
Have to disagree with most of this. All turn based strategy games could have board game equivalents so I don't see your point on that one. The RNG isn't broken and it has been explained why it was done that way. And if you want to see clunky, play the original.
Metalmurphy
Member
Right click, copy link, tag it.
Like this:
[IMG]http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/542941196538064829/C113F57E24ED9F43FEB0E1543A20F4CB0642456A/
Yea, I wonder if the closer range style sniper is just as deadly... or maybe they just become more useful earlier.
I would be finishing my normal iron man run right now but the stupid cache redownload is ruining my evening.
Edit: Also, is there a second download for the elite pack? or is it unlocked automatically if I preordered on steam? I seem to remember a video that had a bunch more customization options then what I have available.
I would be finishing my normal iron man run right now but the stupid cache redownload is ruining my evening.
Edit: Also, is there a second download for the elite pack? or is it unlocked automatically if I preordered on steam? I seem to remember a video that had a bunch more customization options then what I have available.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Pistol skills are kind of worthless, but giving your snipers a laser pistol as a backup weapon for those oh-shit moments is a GOOD IDEA. I've actually finished a couple of missions thanks to their badass aim.
It also helps that you can use a pistol to finish off a wounded alien and keep that last rifle bullet in the chamber just in case you need it during the next round.
It also helps that you can use a pistol to finish off a wounded alien and keep that last rifle bullet in the chamber just in case you need it during the next round.
Doubtful. A pistol sniper can't match one with a plasma weapon that can utilize executioner, double tap (the best!) and squad sight. They're just too deadly.
ThusZarathustra
Member
From the sound of things the returning folks see this a worthy entry in the series, which I think is a good thing, but I really don't think saying the previous years-and-years-old game was clunkier is the best way to promote the virtues of the new one. And sure, you could go play warhammer or whatever and have a somewhat similar experience to an tactical vidjagame, but the tactical vidjagame can do more aspects of the simulation far better and faster than tabletop (such as terrain and line of sight) so I was just a little weirded out by the fact that such issues crept up so repeatedly.
I just think the game really could have been better for everyone involved, without the clunks, bugs, or head-scratching design choices, thas all. I really do quite like the game, which is i guess what made my reaction so strong. It really is pretty close to being something I'd call perfect, but it falls short for such (to me) silly reasons...
This game can be ridiculously difficult. I found out the hard way that those Mutons and Cyberdiscs toss grenades, but luckily without anyone dying.
I was pummeling everything flawlessly with my super squad up until Mutons showed up, after which I lost Ouija, her backup support replacement, Mack the tutorial survivor who just turned colonel, Godfather the Egyptian Sniper, and Kong the Japanese heavy.
Luckily snipers are boss with Squad sight and my Shotgun Assault guys can give a hefty pummeling.
I was pummeling everything flawlessly with my super squad up until Mutons showed up, after which I lost Ouija, her backup support replacement, Mack the tutorial survivor who just turned colonel, Godfather the Egyptian Sniper, and Kong the Japanese heavy.
Luckily snipers are boss with Squad sight and my Shotgun Assault guys can give a hefty pummeling.
whalleywhat
Member
I wouldn't mix up what seem to be fundamental shifts in the style of gameplay with the polish issues which are currently holding the game back.
I haven't had any issues with LOS or Terrain except for reaction fire through walls back on the 360 review build. Rather than taking XCOM to task for being board-game/wargame like (which I think it actually is), the far more egregious thing to me is the bugs.
Like, what do you mean by LOS issues? What do you mean by terrain issues? The main thing annoying about LOS for me is that you can't check current LOS range or potential LOS range.
Like, what do you mean by LOS issues? What do you mean by terrain issues? The main thing annoying about LOS for me is that you can't check current LOS range or potential LOS range.
ThusZarathustra
Member
Oh, I totally get that some of my complaints are rooted in the grandfathered-in game design expectations that come with doing a sequel, but they were things that seemed drastically counter-intuitive to rest of the game design's direction. Now that I know more concretely that those things are hold-overs, they're easier to understand (though not necessarily accept.)
Felix Lighter
Member
I was just told I should capture an enemy but I'm still in the tutorial levels (locating Anna Sing.). Is this something I can do? I'm not seeing the option for any of my troops. Is this just something they say when you encounter a new enemy?
whalleywhat
Member
But you might need to accept that they were choices that were made to create a certain type of gameplay rather than because they were shackled by tradition.
Yeah don't worry, they'll tell you about the proper procedure later on.
Pretty much. You can't capture an alien until you research and manufacture a arc thrower.
In my opinion, the game design part is golden. Some things are not immediately apparent, but once you understand what the "rules" are then it feels like everything is in there for a solid reason and all the pieces fit together to make a great game.
However, there are definitely issues. But I feel that they are all tied to technicalities or presentation... hopefully things that can be fixed or polished a bit to allow the game to get even better with time. Is it a shame that it was release with the bugs, camera issues, and UI problems? Yea I guess... but their aren't many games that come out these days that don't have some kind of weird bug or issue... actually when you think about it, lots of great/timeless/classic games had (and still have) weird wonky issues. At least now-a-days we can make some moderately safe assumptions that these things will be at least looked at if not addressed completely.
The good thing, is that the game is so good that these minor annoyances are easily over looked... and then if they get fixed, we can forget all about them.
However, there are definitely issues. But I feel that they are all tied to technicalities or presentation... hopefully things that can be fixed or polished a bit to allow the game to get even better with time. Is it a shame that it was release with the bugs, camera issues, and UI problems? Yea I guess... but their aren't many games that come out these days that don't have some kind of weird bug or issue... actually when you think about it, lots of great/timeless/classic games had (and still have) weird wonky issues. At least now-a-days we can make some moderately safe assumptions that these things will be at least looked at if not addressed completely.
The good thing, is that the game is so good that these minor annoyances are easily over looked... and then if they get fixed, we can forget all about them.
1 Cyberdisk grenade > your entire badass space marine veteran squad.
While they're all wounded in recovery for 3-5 days, suddenly TERROR MISSION.
Send in an entire rookie squad and the best way I can even begin to describe the mission.. Just imagine Chrysalids chasing civilians and rookies in-and-out, door-to-door and vice-versa like in Scooby Doo with Benny Hill music in the background.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg
While they're all wounded in recovery for 3-5 days, suddenly TERROR MISSION.
Send in an entire rookie squad and the best way I can even begin to describe the mission.. Just imagine Chrysalids chasing civilians and rookies in-and-out, door-to-door and vice-versa like in Scooby Doo with Benny Hill music in the background.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg
Incendiary
Banned
Just ran into my first bug on the 360. Was in the middle of a terror mission (just started, although I was kicking ass, had a mind controlled Muton on my side, and my heavy had reaction shotted the shit out of an attacking chrysalid so I was on good ground), and after a Berserker did his running animation, my last guy couldn't do anything. I could adjust the camera and move the little targeting icon around but couldn't put in any commands. Very strange.
ThusZarathustra
Member
Oh, sure, sure. I totally get that. But, y'know, I found that certain type to be a bit baffling and counter-intuitive a good deal of the time (see below).
The main probably I had (other than not being able to check, as you say) is the incredibly iffy LOS issues in conjunction with terrain. Wait my guys shoot through this wall? Wait, now they can't, wait now they can. What about this tree? Same deal, maybe, maybe not. And I've had numerous occasions of guys being so close they could spit on each other, but not being able to see each other for some reason.
There were SO MANY times when the gameplay grammar was either not surfaced enough or was so inconsistent as to not be able to make accurate assessments about how to proceed, do to not being about to make concrete calls about who could see who when and why. And who can see who when and why is EVERYTHING in this game.
The fact that I and others have found the rules inconsistent to a high degree is emblematic of flawed design, and not in the "We use a RNG" way.
(Sorry that probably got more heated than I intended, but I think how vociferous I can be about it and still claim to really like it, shows how good it think it is, despite my complaints.)
The LP is taking too long because I need to document it so I might just play a secondary classic game for funsies. Use my Facebook friends as soldiers.
/edit In my experience there is almost no shooting through walls component except for the reaction fire which I think is actually an animation screwup - it's using the math from when they're in the open, but the animation and slowdown is triggering while they're still visually behind cover. Everything else is because if you're on the edge of something, you're still targetable - otherwise it's not 'fair' within the game rules. It's basic if i-can-shoot-them-they-can-shoot-me returns.
I don't know... I find XCOM really easy to read with the exception of LOS issues for my snipers sometimes.
/edit In my experience there is almost no shooting through walls component except for the reaction fire which I think is actually an animation screwup - it's using the math from when they're in the open, but the animation and slowdown is triggering while they're still visually behind cover. Everything else is because if you're on the edge of something, you're still targetable - otherwise it's not 'fair' within the game rules. It's basic if i-can-shoot-them-they-can-shoot-me returns.
I don't know... I find XCOM really easy to read with the exception of LOS issues for my snipers sometimes.
I always skipped Executioner because aside from one or two enemies most people don't have enough HP such that executioner seems worthwhile to me. Either way, different strokes for different folks.
I play pretty aggressively and keep my team on the move most of the time which is why I ended up prefering pistols. Early last game (before I got upgraded rifles) I actually ran around using pistols pretty exclusively. They are very devastating early on and the research and cost to buy a couple of them are very cheap.
Late game they don't do much versus some enemies, even if you get plasma pistols but they still dish out a good 6 damage on a hit, more on a crit while keeping you on the move.
I play pretty aggressively and keep my team on the move most of the time which is why I ended up prefering pistols. Early last game (before I got upgraded rifles) I actually ran around using pistols pretty exclusively. They are very devastating early on and the research and cost to buy a couple of them are very cheap.
Late game they don't do much versus some enemies, even if you get plasma pistols but they still dish out a good 6 damage on a hit, more on a crit while keeping you on the move.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Personally, I've had a number of instances where LOS or the lack thereof left me scratching my head. Like, I was raiding a crashed UFO, had my guy standing at the edge of a wall next to a Muton who was standing out of cover, and apparently I didn't have LOS.
It didn't bug(HURR) me too much since I'm playing in Normal and had enough firepower elsewhere to take the Muton down in time, but if I was in Classic and lost a valuable soldier to something like that, I would be furious.
The only thing a pistol sniper gives up is Damn Good Ground, which is only a +10 to Aim and Defense against enemies on lower elevations.
I'm actually warming up to Gunslinger for snipers more and more over time. 10 points to aim is a nice bonus, but it's situational and a sniper with a scope already has excellent chances to hit. Gunslinger effectively turns a plasma pistol into a light plasma rifle, and makes a sniper feel like far less of a fish out of water inside UFOs and the like. I'm starting the think the added versatility is preferable to piling on even more bonuses to aim.
whalleywhat
Member
Basileus777
Member
I'd agree with you if the archangel armor didn't exist and make the height bonus for snipers effectively permanent.
Literally where I saved and quit (Classic Ironman) before I went to work.
Only saw a Floater inside, so I had him charge in... Activated the two Chryssalids in the room, and one decided to get up in his face.
... I want to say he lived a good life, but only making it to Squaddie, it's hardly a lived life.
Then again, maybe he will survive, I've yet to resume <_<
Felix Lighter
Member
Oh god, I lost a soldier already. She just bled out and I wasn't sure how or even if I could save here. I think I needed to have researched a specific item to revive her, which I did not do.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Are you sure about that? AAA's description says it doesn't confer the normal height bonus, and I didn't see any bonuses in my (admittedly extremely limited) testing.
He'll live a good afterlife? Well, until is squadmates cut him down like the infected zombie he is
FlutterPuffs
Member
The bugs are annoying, but I'm glad that the game is boardgame-like. It's what I'm looking for in a strategy RPG.
A lot of the 'impossible' shots are due to having a cinematic view of the action too. It works in a sRPG sense, but it seems so damned clunky at times.
But if you're using Archangel Armor you're not using Ghost Armor. And if you're not using Ghost Armor you can't sneak up behind aliens and shout "Boo!" while unleashing hot plasma death.
That's not a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
You can stop them from bleeding out with a Medikit, but it's not really worthwhile. They take a significant, permanent hit to their Will stat just for going down. Just let them bleed out so that they die a warrior's death instead of living on as a coward, sullying the reputation of XCOM by panicking at the slightest provocation.
Chubzdoomer
Banned
How many of you guys have spoken of this game to friends only to have them respond with, "What's XCOM?"
It seriously makes me want to facepalm. I figured the stellar reviews would at least get the attention of those who know nothing about the franchise or even aren't strategy gamers, but I guess I was wrong. I've talked to at least a handful of people on my Steam list who literally had no idea the game existed, much less what it was about. And these aren't people who just casually play games every now and then.
It seriously makes me want to facepalm. I figured the stellar reviews would at least get the attention of those who know nothing about the franchise or even aren't strategy gamers, but I guess I was wrong. I've talked to at least a handful of people on my Steam list who literally had no idea the game existed, much less what it was about. And these aren't people who just casually play games every now and then.
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