Wii U clock speeds are found by marcan
- Thread starter Pooya
- Start date
Arkam
Member
Was anything downgraded in the developementcircle (GPU or whatever). I want to see that Zelda Demo to be triumphed by the real game
Not that I am aware of. Most everything was pretty much set from the get go really. The memory never changed nor GPU (though not sure if gpu clocked were ever altered up/down).
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
That info is being ignored, but to be fair people are judging on launch ports which aren't any better. They've got nothing else to base it on, so you can't blame them.
The issue is, that is comparing it to 7 year old technology. Sure, by logic and natural advancement of technology, the Wii U even with a slower clock speed on the CPU should be more capable than that of the 360 and PS3. When the next Xbox launches next year, and the next Sony console shortly there after, the Wii U will be struggling to achieve what these consoles should theoretically be able to accomplish with relative ease.
I won't discount Nintendo for pulling of some awesome tech with the Gamepad, but unless they are planning to start pushing consoles every 5 years again, I fear the Wii U will suffer the same fate as the Wii in regards to third party games a year or two into the next cycle of Microsoft and Sony consoles.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Haha the world must know.
Alpolio
Member
That's the news that should have been posted instead of just pure clock speeds. If I just look at the clock speed of my laptop. Right now my "All CPU" gadget reads "780 Mhz". I'd have to say that the 360 is more powerful. But my laptop is using a sandy bridge core i7 coupled with a Nvidia GTX 460m GPU.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I fully expect their next system in November 2017. That most likely puts it a comfortable distance from the release of PS4 and PS5 and MS's as well. I think that's where they want to be.
We're on a gaming forum, I don't find it weird.
I agree, i don't believe the Wii U will be anywhere near the power of the next PS and Xbox console. But i don't believe its under powered to the point it wont be able to surpass the Xbox 360 and PS3. Based on what Marcan has said, sounds like the system has a lot more potential then what people in this thread believe.
Marcan's claims the CPU should exceed the Xenon and Cell processors at ICP, but is inferior for SMID. The Wii U also has dedicated processors for sound, input output, and for running the opperating system. So if it does indeed exceed the Xenon and Cell for raw ICP throughout, and also saves work not having to do the I/O, audio, and OS processing, it's even further ahead.
For SMID processing, no doubt the AMD GPU in the Wii U features technology similar to TetraScale 2. This would allow developers to use the GPU to process SMID instructions. GPU SMID processing like that seen in AMD's R700 line would absolutely outclass the SMID capabilities of the Xbox 360 and PS3's CPU and GPUs combined. All modern Nvidia and ATi GPUs feature the SMID processing capabilities, and in each case they absolutely blow even top end CPUs like i7s out of the water at doing it.
IMHO developers including Nintendo, have failed yet to take full advantage of the Wii U's architecture. Mass Effect 3, COD, Assasin's Creed, all these games have had their engines and assets ported from Xbox 360 and PS3 versions. There is no doubt a massive difference in architecture between the Wii U and Xbox 360 and PS3, so the Wii U would struggle running engines designed for the HD Twins. Then you also have to factor in how much effort was put into the ports, most appear to have been done by small teams with limited budgets in short periods of time. Also it will take some time for SDK and middleware tools to evolve and make better and more efficient use of the Wii U's destinct architecture. Then there's developer learning curve.
Exactly.
My Nvidia 580GTX is clocked at 772mhz, only 28% higher then the 550mhz of the GPU in the PS3. Yet the PS3's GPU is rated around 250gigaflops, the 580GTX around 1,500. So 29% higher clock, 7x and above difference in raw glfoppage.
Post these tweets.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
Here is the tweet that has been missed by most:
https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/274179630599131136
Edit: took out photo due to size
So basically, if developers build for it, the games will actually not be limited by the CPU at all. This would leave them able to focus on what they can do with the GPU. Yes for ports of the SIMD type CPU's of the Xbox 360, there would need to be performance tweaks like the ones we are seeing in the launch games to get them to run respectable. If a developer decides to put even more effort into their Wii U ports from Xbox 360, we'd probably see increased frame rate and better graphics due to the features of the more modern GPU. We'll see I guess in round 2 next year since the 360 is going to keep truck'in for at least another year or two.
https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/274179630599131136
Edit: took out photo due to size
So basically, if developers build for it, the games will actually not be limited by the CPU at all. This would leave them able to focus on what they can do with the GPU. Yes for ports of the SIMD type CPU's of the Xbox 360, there would need to be performance tweaks like the ones we are seeing in the launch games to get them to run respectable. If a developer decides to put even more effort into their Wii U ports from Xbox 360, we'd probably see increased frame rate and better graphics due to the features of the more modern GPU. We'll see I guess in round 2 next year since the 360 is going to keep truck'in for at least another year or two.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Yuck........such a turn off. It seems this is more suited to being a portable rather than a home console.
Barely current gen graphics are just not good enough for me. I miss when Nintendo was awesome! : (
Barely current gen graphics are just not good enough for me. I miss when Nintendo was awesome! : (
Duckhuntdog
Member
Look buddy, we don't need your cogent, level-headed posts in here okay. If everyone was like you, this would be like 3 pages long. Either you start being negative or leave.
I'm kidding of course.
Boss Man
Member
Well IPC is one thing, not many things. I wonder what "win big" means though. Will it actually make up for such a large gap in speed?
One thing we do have to go by is that he says it isn't anything to write home about, and that it isn't "much worse" than Xenon. Basically, it isn't 1/7th as powerful as CELL but that doesn't mean it isn't weaker.
One thing we do have to go by is that he says it isn't anything to write home about, and that it isn't "much worse" than Xenon. Basically, it isn't 1/7th as powerful as CELL but that doesn't mean it isn't weaker.
Projectjustice
Banned
You should read more often. Especially the few posts above yours.
https://twitter.com/marcan42
Sorry i am actually dyslexic.
This is what he said:
Does he actually say the Wii U's cpu is actually worse then the Cell or Xenon? Because from what iread he just says those claiming its a munted piece of shit are wrong.
Where he says 'it isnt', i can't tell if he's saying it isn't much worse, or it isn't worse at all.
From what i can gather reading his tweets, it sound like the Wii U CPU is superior vs Xenon and Cell for general purpose processing, and also lot easier to code for. It is however inferior when it comes to SIMD processing. The SIMD processing should not be a concern, as in modern PC architecture GPUs can now handle this workload and are significantly faster and more efficient at it then CPUs. Also i believe both Sony and Microsoft are going a similar route with their next gen consoles, less SIMD capabilities on CPU and directing it onto the GPU.
I'm actually really happy reading Marcan's comments. Sounds like the CPU is a lot more compent then it's been given credit for.
Gemüsepizza
Member
IPC = Instructions per clock cycle. That does mean that the WiiU CPU can process more instructions per clock cycle, but that does not automatically mean that WiiU can process more instructions over all. If I'm not wrong, the WiiU CPU must process more than 2,56 times as many instructions per clock cycle as the Xbox 360 CPU to be faster.
shinra-bansho
Member
I wouldn't call it 'weak as fuck' but people should get over the semantic arguments about "next gen." It's not the significant technological leap traditionally associated with a console generational transition.It's perfectly clear from the context in which it's used whether someone is referring to some purely chronological delineation or whether they're simply indicating they don't believe the hardware to be particularly powerful.
Additionally, if people really take issue with the "not next gen" semantics, they should really stop framing the issue around being "on par" "slightly worse than" 360 and matching performance "if developers work harder." The reference frame/competitors of the 8th generation will be Durango and Orbis.
Furthermore, we don't really know how much effort developers had to put in just to get their ports working as is.
Additionally, if people really take issue with the "not next gen" semantics, they should really stop framing the issue around being "on par" "slightly worse than" 360 and matching performance "if developers work harder." The reference frame/competitors of the 8th generation will be Durango and Orbis.
Furthermore, we don't really know how much effort developers had to put in just to get their ports working as is.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Dreamwriter
Member
Gemüsepizza;44906258 said:
More instructions than what? The clock speed is an exact measurement of the number of cycles per second, so more instructions per clock cycle means more instructions per second. Of course, how complicated the instructions are affects overall system power as well - being able to run 10 times the number of instructions per second as the competition means little if the competition can do 10 times the work per instruction.
Poimandres
Member
Even the ropiest of ports didn't run or look worse on the 360 than PS2. Also, as you noted there were games at launch that were very clearly far beyond the previous generation. I really don't see the comparison to the Wii U launch!
Mind you, I also think it's foolish to claim that the Wii U isn't capable of running current gen games at the same level. I think it will be like a Wii vs Xbox scenario when all is said and done. But really, prior to launch the general consensus seemed to be that the Wii U would be a 360+ in terms of power.... but it's clearly not so cut and dry.
gamergirly
Member
When did the whole CPU == power of the system come about? The Wii U does have other components like a GPU and eDRAM ya know. It also needs to consider aspects such as latency since the "other" hardware that is not being talked about, the Wii U Gamepad(roughly 45% of the console cost) actually really NEEDS it more so than 360 and PS3.
For all the comparisons of the 360 and PS3 as far as performance, keep in mind that neither of them have a tablet controller that needs to be streamed and aligned with.
For all the comparisons of the 360 and PS3 as far as performance, keep in mind that neither of them have a tablet controller that needs to be streamed and aligned with.
Gemüsepizza
Member
But the exact number of instructions per second is determined by IPC and clock speed. So it doesn't say much to us when he says "WiiU wins big on IPC".
I'm not sure if there are enough differences between the Xbox 360 CPU and the WiiU CPU that this is a big factor.
Boss Man
Member
I think he means:
If I do 5 cycles per second with with twice the instructions per cycle as you.
Yet you do 15 cycles per second.
Who does more work each second? Also, who is controlling the hand crank on this CPU?
TwilightPrincess
Member
Yeah but Wii was I think pushing up against its technical boundaries with Xenoblade, so I guess some forgiveness is in order
Nintendo has a real problem. It may not seem like a problem to some because of how much their stable of franchises continues to sell (even as some series are diminishing... re: Metroid, re: Zelda), but so much could be fixed if they just started to genuinely invest in games with a decent sized budget that were ALSO marketed big.
It's really past the point where it's appropriate for Nintendo to announce a game one month in advance and then release it. There is no buzz, and as the competitors continue to encroach on Nintendo's territory, this is the type of stuff that starts to eat away at a console manufacturer if it's not taken care of.
I mean Yoshi's Land Wii U is just leaking to lists now and will probably be out in a few months time, right?
But as much as I want Yoshi's Land, I far more desire Nintendo to apply their talents to brand new original IPs. I already know what they're capable of when it comes to Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc; I want to know what they're capable of when they strip any security blanket away and must create a big budget hardcore titles without any Mario, Zelda or Metroid. With a big marketing budget to boot.
If they started doing this, the shift away from people being too concerned about clock speeds and RAM (because we already know Wii U is underpowered) might be something that is advantageous for Nintendo. There has been some negative buzz around Wii U launch because of this stuff, and the many problems with their system (horrendously slow OS, for one).
OS should get fixed, but i agree at almost all points, very good post. They should be able to bring new IPs and all the fanservice franchises. They should be able to take some Wii-Money and promote that really good games. I live in germany and i have seen lots of FF 7 TV-spots. Without that promotion it wouldn´t have had that staus of a cultgame here, and it sold pretty well. Why not try it again? It´s dumb, like Namco was dumb with Tales in the west.
I like the WiiU, i hope to play a Next Gen Zelda or Monolithsoft Game in my weekend house, at a small lake with real bats surrounding me, hunting for flies, i hope Nintendo will allow it (streaming the full game to the padlet). Imo a killer feature, even if it is the easiest task for devs.
Nintendo has to promote their games better, the WiiU in general. But perhaps they are are very late, not able to show good looking content at the moment. We´ll see if the leaked list is true^^
Stop judging the wii u! All judgments are premature. We have no idea what a cpu based on architecture from '99 can do when clocked at a scorching 1.25 ghz coupled with gddr 3 at a whopping 12 gb/sec bandwidth. Judge it by the games! But ignore any games showed so far! Maybe one day it will exceed the 360 and ps3! For all we know durango and orbis are only marginally faster than the wii u!
WiiU will get 3rd party ports for many years to come.
I guarantee that even after PS4 and 720 launch, you'll still see big franchise titles like CoD, and Madden being developed for 360 and PS3. That install base is just too big to completely turn that switch off when Sony and Microsoft bring out their next consoles.
But.. WiiU won't be getting ports of PS4 and 720 games, they'll be getting ports of 360 and PS3 games as long as the big publishers continue to develop for them... which will probably be for some time even after next gen launches. It won't be niche titles though, just the big flagship franchises.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Where's the like button? Somebody get a love button in here!
Doesn't make sense, if the 360/PS3 are still profitable enough to justify major franchises, why even release the 720/PS4 in the first place?
That's not what happened last time around.
Development shifted massively to the new platform in 2005/06. PS2 continued to receive Madden and FIFA releases and $20 shovelware, but not much beyond that.
There's no reason to believe this transition will be any different.
People are more willing to take any piece of negative news about Wii-U than anything positive... yep sounds like GAF
Saint Gregory
Member
I agree, the difference between the WiiU and the 360 is no where near the difference between the 360 and the previous generation consoles. I'm not even sure anymore if the WiiU could be considered a stop gap console like the Dreamcast.
The market has changed so drastically with the introduction of smart devices/tablets that I'm not sure if we can even break down generations the way that we used to. How relevant is the power gulf between the WiiU and the PS4/720 going to be when tablets and smartphones and increasing in power and being released every few months? As crazy as we see this move by Nintendo to be now we could look back in a few years and realize that they read the market perfectly.
Or like any gaming forum....For example never stay on gamefaq lol.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The only thing that you're ignoring is that he said per-clock. If the Xenon and the whateverthisCPUisnamed were clocked the same, then yes integer performance would favor the WiiU CPU by as much as 60%. He even said that this doesnt scale out the same in taking account for the clockspeed difference.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
http://api.ning.com/files/BvqPG6nXx...rT-8fvj43/mariogirls.jpg?width=320&height=314
Don't search Mario Luigi Peach in Bed on Google, I'm the cloud.
Well, at least I can expect a Zelda out of this clock.
The main issue with this line of reasoning is that the Wii U originally appeared to be an olive branch to their core gamer demographic. If it can't land ports of 720/PS4 games, then their success on that front depends heavily on third parties making solid exclusives - basically identical to the Wii's situation. I don't think the Wii U will have nearly the casual appeal that the Wii did, even if that market isn't tapped out by now. So the question is, what is it that they'll do well?
Net_Wrecker
Member
Mmm hmm, mmm hmm....
So it's actually 2 Gameboy Pockets duct taped to a TI-83 calculator then? GOD, Nintendo is so cheap. I bet the Wii U couldn't even run a next gen downport of an arcade re-release of the remade version of Ms. Pacman.
soulassssns
Banned
Indeed. I think the idea of spec-powerhouses fighting it out in a living room oriented solely around a theater-style obsession with the big screen is already becoming archaic.
Things are changing. The living room itself is becoming an entirely different thing. The dinosaurs are the ones who believe the market will still be sustained on bigger TVs and ever more pixels.
No one knows if the Wii U will work out, but I'd be much more worried about companies who keep doubling down on the old notions of power in tech as if that's the real competition. Look at Sony (as a whole); they're simply not in a good place for that thinking.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Yeah, that's what I meant, I was just passionately displaying my stance about the subject.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
In this case, in all honesty, they actually do mean something. The clockspeed difference is something like 250%. The Espresso would have to literally be 250% more efficient at everything else to be equivalent to the Xenon. It isn't, but it is equivalent enough where it matters.
It can't the dreamcast had a few games that blew away the previous generation launch day in NA. Soul Calibre was hands down the best looking console game when it came out. NFL2k was light years a head of other console sports games in graphics. There are other launch titles also that blew away the previous generation. There is nothing in the WiiU launch library that blows away the current generation. Most I can't tell much of a difference.
Unless the Wii U cost 100 dollars to make there is no way that controller is 45% of the cost. It is low res, captive screen, a radio receiver and a few sensors. That does not cost a ton of money to make. Cheap tablets with a full SOC and ram can be bought for under 100 dollars. So those proably cost 50 dollars to make. If those can be made for 50 the Wii U tablet can be made for close to that.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't understand the purpose of posts like these. Mind you, I get that click speed doesn't tell a complete picture, but it's not like it's a piece of meaningless jargon either. It's not as if this is the first we are hearing about the CPU being a potential bottleneck.