Can Windows 8 be rescued at this point?

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Zaptruder

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Does it need rescuing?

Well all signs to (this very early) date points to Win 8 turning out to be a Win ME/Win Vista level disaster (as is the norm of Windows releases)... can anything be done to turn this ship around?

Like for example...

Start button: Desktop machines automatically boots into desktop mode with a start icon (as per usual) - metro start screen is accessible as a button just above the start icon (next to the search box), and users have the option to adjust the settings so that the start button launches the metro menu, and they can have the machine launch into the metro start menu by default.

They can also add metro start menu to the quick launch bar and desktop icon - to make it more visible to casual desktop users.


I think the bigger fish to fry though is the whole walled garden approach to metro apps. That shit is souring everyone and everything. Win 8 doesn't really offer people any advantages over other computing ecosystems - so having restrictions on what can be published and been charged for it is going to sour and turn off a lot of developers. Especially when you can just stick with a non-metro app and not have any of those dumb restrictions.

I mean, if metro apps fail, then Windows 8 as a whole fails as well. It just becomes a pointless OS - so why put up these really ominous barriers for putting up quality content? You know what you'll get for the metro app store? Regurgitated crap from other app stores, and widgets from websites.

New original content? Still best to sell to the Windows desktop ecosystem - making your stuff exclusive to a platform with lackluster hype, response and sales is just sending it out to die.


Realistically though, can either of these points change? They kind of contradict the whole apparent mission behind Windows 8... who would have to get shitcanned for Microsoft to turn it around and admit that they made a mistake trying to ape Apple's closed strategy?

Is the appointment of the lady that came up with Metro to Windows division head a doubling down on their belief in the power of metro over desktop?
 
Can it be fixed? Just needs a complete shell replacement.

Will Microsoft fix it? Doubtful, that would mean admitting they made a huge mistake.
 
It's unlikely that any major UI conventions will be dropped. Tweaks and smaller additions, perhaps.

It will not cease to be a deeply flawed product made by a company that lacks the commitment to break free from their own legacy-supporting prision.
 
Loofy said:
Low price point means they didnt really have all that much faith in it...
Click to expand...

Low price means they expected much of their revenue to come from the store. I still think they will push it, get some partnerships and not admit defeat. I still don't see any use for it on the desktop space when we have 7.
 
Emily Chu said:
you can't sell me what I don't want or need...

windows 7 works absolutely perfect for me

and change is pain
Click to expand...

I'd go back to Windows 7 if they released a service pack that gave W7 the boot time of W8.
 
Emily Chu said:
you can't sell me what I don't want or need...

windows 7 works absolutely perfect for me

and change is pain
Click to expand...

With those two changes, I'd say it operates like an enhanced version of Win 7.

Ok, assuming they keep Aero skin as well.

The main issue is that Win 8 makes desktop seem like the secondary UI, not the primary one (which is a very uncomfortable change for everyone that is used to desktop).

But there are some for real enhancements to Win 8 file handling; cut, copy, paste file functions where you can see what's going on and can pause and start files as you want.

There's also better multi-monitor handling that I would enjoy myself.
 
There's nothing to fix when no one wants it... Cast it off with windows ME and vista then call it a day.
 
They won't be able to change the perception that it's not a stellar OS.

I like it, but I have plenty of complaints.

They'd be better off just taking all of the complaints into consideration and creating their next version of Windows with them in mind. Then they could do another Windows 7 type of thing where the perception was that they "got it right," and "answered everyone's problems."
 
It doesnt need saving. By default its going to sell enough that MS will be absolutely fine. Even if its the next Vista, they will survive just fine and make plenty of money while doing it.

Now on the other hand, if they want it to be considered by folks like myself as a 'worth a shit upgrade', they have some work to do. I definitely think its image is already set though. There's probably no changing that until they ship the next version.
 
I just recently bought a laptop and I find myself staying in the modern UI a lot more then using Windows 8 on my desktop. A lot of their modern apps (music, video, mail) are pretty horrible, but hopefully those improve with time.
 
Zaptruder said:
With those two changes, I'd say it operates like an enhanced version of Win 7.

Ok, assuming they keep Aero skin as well.

The main issue is that Win 8 makes desktop seem like the secondary UI, not the primary one (which is a very uncomfortable change for everyone that is used to desktop).

But there are some for real enhancements to Win 8 file handling; cut, copy, paste file functions where you can see what's going on and can pause and start files as you want.
Click to expand...

and heck I would pay 20-30$ for those improvements as a service pack or w/e

but not 8...

heck I was happy using XP before 2007

but I'm tired and getting older now

and I've decided that I'm going to use 7 until the day I drop dead

going from 95, 98, xp, to vista and finally to 7 was all very very very Bane Painful
I'm fucking done changing OSes....

and I'm only 26 atm
and I have 7 on a perfected image that I can just restore over and over agian backed up and also on several cloud services

so 7 fo lyfe

I'm pretty much done with reinstalling and installing new OSes

and no more fucks can be given as I've ran out of fucks to give about new OSes... and trying to get used to them

so fuck 8 and the horse it rode in on....
 
Just like vista they will tweak it. And put it out as windows 9 and everyone complaining will buy it in droves.

Nothing is actually wrong with windows 8 and the same complaints existed about xp back in the day. As its first year grinds on. Haswell will replace ivy bridge. And bay trail will do the same to clover trail and people will nuy the systems in droves. They will sell hundreds of millions of copies all with a dedicated store that will agument their revenue and whem windows 9 launches they will have hundreds of thousands of apps and everyone will ne happy
 
I actually like Win8. Have it installed on my desktop (dual monitor setup) and laptop. However, I also got it free from work. So it was worth the price!

I will say that the best way I've found to use it with with the Start Screen/Metro/Modern stuff all on the second monitor and most of what I'm working on can stay on the main monitor.

I was really impressed when I installed it on my laptop today. My wallpaper, settings, apps, lockscreen and account pic, account info (mail, IM, etc), and passwords all were all ready to go as soon as I signed in for the first time. It was pretty cool. SkyDrive also synced all my docs/pics/etc that I have on there without me having to lift a finger. The cloud is pretty neat!
 
I actually like 8!

Of course, I upgraded from Vista so your mileage may vary. I don't find the start screen to be that big of a deal, and the interface for the apps are actually pretty good. Shutting down is one too many steps if you aren't using keyboard shortcuts, but that isn't that big of a deal.
 
Cipherr said:
It doesnt need saving. By default its going to sell enough that MS will be absolutely fine. Even if its the next Vista, they will survive just fine and make plenty of money while doing it.

Now on the other hand, if they want it to be considered by folks like myself as a 'worth a shit upgrade', they have some work to do. I definitely think its image is already set though. There's probably no changing that until they ship the next version.
Click to expand...

The latest reports are that Windows 8 launch has *soured* PC sales.

So instead of *boosting* them like a windows launch normally does (even Vista did to a very modest degree), they actually reversed sales of it.

I don't doubt for a moment that means PC manufacturers will largely continue offering Windows 7 as the main OS for years to come.
 
Tomat said:
I'd go back to Windows 7 if they released a service pack that gave W7 the boot time of W8.
Click to expand...

I restart my Win7 laptop maybe once a month. I couldn't give a shit about bootup time. Bootdown time, on the other hand.......
 
I like it. It's faster than 7 and you don't have to use the metro stuff if you don't want to.
That's how I've been using it, just like W7 but faster and with some improvements.
 
...a little early to call Metro apps a failure.

iOS wasn't exactly a garden of awesomeness when it first started, it took time to really hit it's stride.

People are writing off 8 typically on principal instead of experience.
 
I like win8. But objectively trying to remove bias, I don't see how you can compare it to Vista or ME. ME was just garbage. Vista was a poor performer and zealous UAC. Windows 8 just changes the start screen while improving various things in desktop, performs well. It's basically Windows 7 + improvements + start screen. If you don't like start screen you could get legacy shell app or whatever it is.
 
NervousXtian said:
...a little early to call Metro apps a failure.

iOS wasn't exactly a garden of awesomeness when it first started, it took time to really hit it's stride.

People are writing off 8 typically on principal instead of experience.
Click to expand...

Well, it is early, but any trending indicators do not bode well for Windows 8 and by extension metro apps.


I'll see how things change with the release of Surface Pro... but I don't think that'll be the magic bullet that Microsoft hopes (at this point) that it'll be.
 
Zaptruder said:
The latest reports are that Windows 8 launch has *soured* PC sales.

So instead of *boosting* them like a windows launch normally does (even Vista did to a very modest degree), they actually reversed sales of it.

I don't doubt for a moment that means PC manufacturers will largely continue offering Windows 7 as the main OS for years to come.
Click to expand...
Well they need to have windows 8 machines to sell before it can increase sales. The majority of laptops at best buy last week were heavily discounted 7 models
 
Emily Chu said:
you can't sell me what I don't want or need...

windows 7 works absolutely perfect for me

and change is pain
Click to expand...

I've always been eager to try a new Windows version. But yea, this hits it right on the head. Windows 7 is just perfection to me right now. Great performance. Great stability. Overwhelming driver support.

So many people tried to tell MS that slapping a touchscreen UI on a Keyboard and Mouse setup was not a good look and they just went ahead with it because they wanted ONE unified windows experience between desktop, laptop, tablet and phones.

I just don't see the NEED for Windows 8 in my life. I like my Start button. It's quick. It's easy. Windows 8 doesn't offer enough to justify getting rid of it.
 
And aren't the rumors that Microsoft's Windows release schedule is shifting to annual subscription updates? Maybe they'll call it Windows 9, but it sort of makes sense to return to years for versioning.

All I know is it's going to make testing at work a lot more difficult. I imagine a lot of enterprises will just be more selective in support.
 
eastmen said:
Well they need to have windows 8 machines to sell before it can increase sales. The majority of laptops at best buy last week were heavily discounted 7 models
Click to expand...

I would feel more assured about the fortune of Win 8 if it was anyone else making this post.
 
teh_pwn said:
I like win8. But objectively trying to remove bias, I don't see how you can compare it to Vista or ME. ME was just garbage. Vista was a poor performer and zealous UAC. Windows 8 just changes the start screen while improving various things in desktop, performs well. It's basically Windows 7 + improvements + start screen. If you don't like start screen you could get legacy shell app or whatever it is.
Click to expand...

pretty much this.

The metro start screen is the dumbest thing I'd ever witness, but one you are in desktop mode, it works pretty well
 
Just make it so that you can choose to have it automatically bypass Metro for desktops.

That seems to be the biggest problem. That way people with desktops/laptops can do that, people with tablets can use Metro, and people with laptops that have those touchscreens can choose between the two.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
I've always been eager to try a new Windows version. But yea, this hits it right on the head. Windows 7 is just perfection to me right now. Great performance. Great stability. Overwhelming driver support.

So many people tried to tell MS that slapping a touchscreen UI on a Keyboard and Mouse setup was not a good look and they just went ahead with it because they wanted ONE unified windows experience between desktop, laptop, tablet and phones.

I just don't see the NEED for Windows 8 in my life. I like my Start button. It's quick. It's easy. Windows 8 doesn't offer enough to justify getting rid of it.
Click to expand...


Windows 7 will quickly become windows xp . People will say they wont move off it but when 9 comes along in 2 or 3 years it will have enough features that you guys will all jump over even though metro and the store will still be huge parts of it.


Metro isn't going away , in many ways its better than the start menu . I haven't actually found a use case for myself when it was slower to do something with metro than 7 and as I become more used to 8 i'm getting faster still .

makingmusic476 said:
Just make it so that you can choose to have it automatically bypass Metro for desktops.

That seems to be the biggest problem. That way people with desktops/laptops can do that, people with tablets can use metro, and people with laptops that have those touchscreens can choose between the two.
Click to expand...

you only need to be in metro for a second if you don't want to use it. The only time i'm in metro is when my computer first logs in and then I click the big icon that says desktop or if i'm going to launch a metro app. A lot of metro apps are better than the prior verisons. Netflix is a lot better then using the website for instance.
 
demon said:
I restart my Win7 laptop maybe once a month. I couldn't give a shit about bootup time. Bootdown time, on the other hand.......
Click to expand...

Shutdown is pretty fast for me. Less than 10 seconds on both my desktop and laptop. Don't have SSDs.

eastmen said:
you only need to be in metro for a second if you don't want to use it. The only time i'm in metro is when my computer first logs in and then I click the big icon that says desktop or if i'm going to launch a metro app. A lot of metro apps are better than the prior verisons. Netflix is a lot better then using the website for instance.
Click to expand...
Yeah video apps in general seem excellent in Metro. I've had really good experiences with Youtube, Netflix, and the Giant Bomb apps.
 
notworksafe said:
Shutdown is pretty fast for me. Less than 10 seconds on both my desktop and laptop. Don't have SSDs.
Click to expand...

I think my problem is I always have a bunch of shit Windows Update is updating, so it takes minutes sometimes to shut the damn thing down. I'm tired of having to restart my computer after updating shit. Makes me feel like it's 1998, why can't we be done with this.
 
eastmen said:
Windows 7 will quickly become windows xp . People will say they wont move off it but when 9 comes along in 2 or 3 years it will have enough features that you guys will all jump over even though metro and the store will still be huge parts of it.


Metro isn't going away , in many ways its better than the start menu . I haven't actually found a use case for myself when it was slower to do something with metro than 7 and as I become more used to 8 i'm getting faster still .



you only need to be in metro for a second if you don't want to use it. The only time i'm in metro is when my computer first logs in and then I click the big icon that says desktop or if i'm going to launch a metro app. A lot of metro apps are better than the prior verisons. Netflix is a lot better then using the website for instance.
Click to expand...

and guess what

some people will still be using XP

I think things are different now, that or I just don't feel like reinstalling the fuck out of all my programs again EVER....

7 works with Firefox and a shit ton of programs... (don't give one iota about gaming) so direct X does not have me by the balls whatsoever....
 
Adding the start button would help a lot.

But overall, the best thing they could do would be to give Windows 8 Basic users free downgrades to Windows 7. It sucks that only Windows 8 Pro users can get that right now.

I'm looking into a new laptop right now, and it really irks me that a lot of the best deals would force me into Windows 8. It's easily the worst operating system ever created by humans.
 
I work for a rather large "too big to fail" bank as a developer, and our machines just moved off of Windows XP this year. We'll probably be Windows 7 until 10 hits. (And then we'll be Windows 9.)

As for my home machine, I upgrade machines, and operating systems come along for the ride. I don't see a need to replace my laptop, so there will naturally be no OS change, either. My laptop is just over 3 years old (has Windows 7) and is probably good for another 3 or longer.
 
Windows 8 is not an unmitigated disaster like Vista was, despite how many people like to insist that it is. Not even close. Where Windows Vista has severe compatibility issues, was a slow resource hog, and was frequently unstable, Windows 8 is none of those. So let's keep things in perspective here.

The merger of a tablet-friendly Start screen and a normal desktop could definitely be smoother and the new combination is rather unwieldy at first to a new user. It isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and some of the larger issues people have with it could be easily fixed by simple toggles in Preferences.

It's also pretty dumb to judge W8 by the price they released it at or by sales relative to past versions of Windows. Three massive changes in the PC space have occurred since the launch of W7 that make it impossible for a new Windows to sell more (in units sold or in dollars) than W7 did at launch:

1. The rise of the tablet. Many people who used computers half a decade ago were casual users that only used a PC for web browsing, email, and maybe chat. There are dozens of millions of people who no longer need a large PC and a monitor that can only stay in one place for those needs. All that can be accomplished on a tablet easily. All you need to prove this is to look at fall PC sales over the past year. PC sales are down 25% from last year. While some people would want to attribute that entirely to how AWFUL Windows 8 is, the rational explanation is that many people no longer need a PC and actually prefer the mobility and ease-of-use of a tablet.

2. Apple is more competitive in the desktop OS space than they were five years ago, and one of the reasons for that is Apple has drastically lowered the cost of updating the OS. What used to sell for hundreds of dollars now sells for under fifty dollars. Microsoft simply couldn't find any success with charging $200 for Windows 8, which is a price the market used to bear but refuses to today.

3. Microsoft already has a great modern OS on the market. Simply, many people have no need for Windows 8 because Windows 7 fulfills all of their desktop needs and the change to 8 is not worth the price or the learning curve for what they get.

Between those three points and the mediocre buzz that W8 has been getting in the press, i is assured that W8 won't see the massive adoption that past Windows have gotten.

Does that mean it is a failure though? I would agree if the OS itself ran poorly or if sales were horrible. However, the OS runs great and they've already sold ~20 million copies.

At the moment, I'd be equally unwilling to call it an unqualified success as I would to call it an unqualified failure. If the scope was expanded past the desktop OS to include the tablet initiative, I'd be more inclined to lean towards the latter, but it's too early to make any concrete judgments like that.
 
Emily Chu said:
and guess what

some people will still be using XP

I think things are different now, that or I just don't feel like reinstalling the fuck out of all my programs again EVER....

7 works with Firefox and a shit ton of programs... (don't give one iota about gaming) so direct X does not have me by the balls whatsoever....
Click to expand...

so your never going to upgrade your phone again either ?


Eventually your pc will die and you will either buy a new one or move to a tablet / phone only . IF you move to a new pc in the future there are chances that there wont be windows 7 drivers for your pc which means you will reinstall all your programs.


I use about 30 programs and I only install them once every 3 years. A lot of these programs will be offered through the windows store so at log in I can simply pull all of them down off the cloud just like you say you do with your windows 7 install.

The future comes no matter what , at some point people using xp/vista/7 will upgrade to windows 8 and those using windows 8 will upgrade to a future OS . Now many of these people may choose to leave conventional pcs and go to tablets or phones only . But many wont.


With windows 8 MS has a store that will work for their tablets , laptops and desktops. I'm sure in the future as win rt and win phone 8 evolve they will want to united those back into the main strand of windows also. This is the end game for ms . Apple and Google make money off all the apps in their store and MS wants tha piece also. They wont go back to windows 7 or vista or xp. Those days are done.


Windows 8 has already sold over 40m units of windows 8 that's 1 month of sales. To date Apple's best quarter for total iphone sales was q1 2012 with only 37 million iphones and that includes iphone 3gs , 4 , 4s all the models avlaible at that time .

MS will continue to sell windows 8 and it will sell hundreds of millions of units and hundreds of millions of programs will be sold in the windows store and MS will continue to merge these two together and they wont break them apart because it doesn't make any sense to do it.
 
Why is this so hard to grasp?

rgo0c.png


w8 on an ssd is marvelous. It's a FUCKTON easier to see a list of my fav apps than going through that arduous start menu from older windows. I'm honestly baffled at the tech blogs who dislike 8, the resistance to change is odd.
 
wish someone would make a gif of all the start menu's from the earliest windows morphing into the newer verision into the newer one into metro so that people can grasp it easier
 
Windows 8 is not bad if you install start8 and bypass all metro shit. Worthless overall though. They could have added the better file transfer system and task manager in a service pack for 7. Those are really the only benefits to this os for me...You know it's bad when tech sites tell you not to upgrade unless you have a touch device. Microsoft's entire plan is to force Metro on windows users so that they are more accepting of other devices that use Metro like tablets and their phones to gain more sales and try to earn money off their app store ecosystem. It's garbage on a desktop and does not belong. I really feel bad for the average user that installs this thing and the only guide they have is to touch corners, which basically leaves you clueless.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Convincing argument.
Click to expand...

Its the truth however . I don't sit and stare at a screen longer than I need to acess the information on it. For the start screen I simply click what I need to click on to launch my program.

Do you sit and stare at your desktop for hours on end just staring at the grid of icons ? Do you sit and stare for hours on end at your start menu ?
 
Hopefully people will understand that the Start Screen is just a replacement (an enhancement!) of the old Start Menu. It's not meant to be stared at 24/7.

Puddles said:
Adding the start button would help a lot.

But overall, the best thing they could do would be to give Windows 8 Basic users free downgrades to Windows 7. It sucks that only Windows 8 Pro users can get that right now.

I'm looking into a new laptop right now, and it really irks me that a lot of the best deals would force me into Windows 8. It's easily the worst operating system ever created by humans.
Click to expand...

And with that any credibility you may have had went out the window.
 
BoboBrazil said:
Windows 8 is not bad if you install start8 and bypass all metro shit. Worthless overall though. They could have added the better file transfer system and task manager in a service pack for 7. Those are really the only benefits to this os for me...You know it's bad when tech sites tell you not to upgrade unless you have a touch device. Microsoft's entire plan is to force Metro on windows users so that they are more accepting of other devices that use Metro like tablets and their phones to gain more sales and try to earn money off their app store ecosystem. It's garbage on a desktop and does not belong. I really feel bad for the average user that installs this thing and the only guide they have is to touch corners, which basically leaves you clueless.
Click to expand...

So how long have you spent using windows 8 ? I ask because my self and others in this thread haven't had all these problems you talk about.

Tech sites write negative articles because they want hits and its easy to hate on windows 8 right now just like its been easy to hate on all of Microsoft's products for the last few years.

Windows 8 is extremely easy to use. Easier than 7
 
I went from XP to Windows 8 a few days ago... And I don't mind it. I think Live Tiles are stupid though, at least on a desktop, and some of the MS apps are terrible (music in particular).
 
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