It's in front of me the 5 first seconds after I boot, and a few seconds when I open it to search and launch an app. 99.99% of the time it spent on the desktop.
Define "all the time".
Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace
- Thread starter Canis lupus
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Define "all the time".
He's used many OS's and even done writing on them all, he must know something about stuff. The guy is a tool. There are certainly issues with the OS, but touchpad gestures aren't one of them. Don't do edge swipes and you will be good. I think there is also a touchpad settings app that will allow for turning them off if that is what you want. Not positive on that though, as touchpad gestures work fine for me
Edit: And if I may say so, anyone who knows anything
would change the left edge swipe to bring up the open apps bar instead of the app swap.
Edit: And if I may say so, anyone who knows anything
would change the left edge swipe to bring up the open apps bar instead of the app swap.wow some of you can't make up your mind.
Microsoft gives you all the most popular items in the ribbon as a way to make things go faster = you complain.
Microsoft eliminates most of the items and goes for a nice clean interface = you complain.
Is this just people missing the file menu or just looking for things to pick at...?
Microsoft gives you all the most popular items in the ribbon as a way to make things go faster = you complain.
Microsoft eliminates most of the items and goes for a nice clean interface = you complain.
Is this just people missing the file menu or just looking for things to pick at...?
Metro also replaced the Glass theme of 7 on the desktop. It's a tiny change of course but I'm still very disappointed it is gone.
The fact Aero glass gone is Microsoft's passive admittance is that it was a resource hog originating from Windows Vista. Can't do the useless Windows Flip 3D (Windows Key + Tab) in Windows 8.
The benchmarks show that Windows 8 is faster than Windows 7.
you mean Aero glass transparent shading? you can bring that back if you want.
I never liked it though and new flat design is much better to me. Vista/7 without aero glass looked really ugly for some reason though.
No shading helps with performance and power consumption too on mobile devices.
maybe no aero is why 8 feels more responsive than 7 ?
I thought that at first but I like it without the glass, the whole desktop UI just feels and looks crisper than before. The new interface feels like 7 with aero turned off.
I've never ever liked the ribbon. It's always made me shudder since Office 07.
But using it doesn't. Benchmarks aren't a good excuse for locking the OS down to an ugly interface. The fast boot keeps me from going back to 7 but Metro definitely makes the experience worse.
You can't. There's a bug that lets you remove the color of the windows but it is just a bug, and doesn't work
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I see Metro maybe 30 seconds out of the day, it's not right in front of me all the time. As a launcher it's way faster than the Win 7 start menu. Unless I'm on my tablet, then I'm in Metro much of the time where it makes sense.
Yeah but you're kinda wrong. The taskbar is still transparent. Aero is still activated, its just more limited.
So it is not the reason why Windows 8 runs faster.
yeah, it's not really same thing.
Taskbar is transparent that doesn't mean it is the same hardware accelerated shader effect. you could transparent menus in Windows 2000 with a registry key. You don't need any kind of shader 1.1 capable gpu to have the current windows 8 look unlike Vista/7.
they could have left an option to enable it but looks like it's opposite of their new UI design with sharp edges and flat look they have.
Dreams-Visions
Member
His opinion was about the first 30 minutes he had with Windows 8. Apparently he went in blind and simply expected there to be more context clues and conveyance than there is.
Honestly, you guys are bullshitting. If you went into windows 8 without knowing about the hot corners, you would have had the same experience. Nothing the past 25 years of Windows OSes prepare a Windows 8 user for NO start button, invisible buttons in corners, the "charms" bar, or the sudden dependence on the Windows key.
No Windows iteration has ever really used the Windows key for anything meaningful. At all. So who would assume it does now at first? It's windows, so expel inherently look for familiar buttons like Start because they've been pressing them for 20 years. Same is true with the hot corners. When has Windows ever used them? In 25 years? Never. But suddenly your ability to navigate the OS is absolutely tied to that prior knowledge.
Ask someone with familiarity with Windows and no experience with Windows 8 to sit down at a machine and figure out how to do a couple of basic things they've always done. Observe people waking up to kiosks at electronics stores. If you want to be cruel, use a parent. Give them no help and no Google/YouTube to look up answers. See if they don't end up just as furious in their first 30 minutes as the guy who made that video. The problem isn't that Windows 8 hides a lot of shit, or that it changes things that have been historically predictable and consistent for 20 years. The problem is that it does so without providing adequate explanation or training to make people aware. A 5-minute video during the setup process would prevent these kinds of first impressions. And after watching, leave the video as a bigass Metro button for people to review latter. At a BestBuy kiosk, that sort of video should be a screen saver, always running and communicating the, "new better ways" to use Windows.
It's the lack of communication that causes the bad first impressions. Those of you that don't seem to get that are willfully ignoring these issues. Perhaps because you know going in what the charms bar was and how to get to the desktop and find your apps. Those that don't know end up feeling like the dude in the video for about an hour (or until you start YouTubing shit like "how do I turn off Windows 8").
Bottom line: in the beginning, Windows 8 is user-hostile and confusing to people with familiarity with Windows and no prior knowledge of Windows 8's changes or how to access them. After you get past that, it's just as reasonable as any other Windows. Education is where Microsoft failed hard. Blame them, not the video complaints.
Nobody liked the ribbons but Microsoft. For everyone else, they've been lateral moves. Just a change to accept and learn, not something many particularly enjoy.
What items were eliminated, and what is the nice, clean interface you refer to? Metro? Which is designed for touch screens?
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
All that matters is that Windows 8 outsells iPad and Android tablets.
They need to make the Windows app Store the primary development platform, everything else is irrelevant. How it sells compared to Windows 7/Vista is pointless. 8 could be the worst selling version of Windows ever and as long as it outsells iOS and Android it is a huge success.
One thing I do find curious is if some people actually think Windows 8 doesn't work with mouse/keyboard? Not sure if that's pure stupidity or hyperbole on their part.
They need to make the Windows app Store the primary development platform, everything else is irrelevant. How it sells compared to Windows 7/Vista is pointless. 8 could be the worst selling version of Windows ever and as long as it outsells iOS and Android it is a huge success.
One thing I do find curious is if some people actually think Windows 8 doesn't work with mouse/keyboard? Not sure if that's pure stupidity or hyperbole on their part.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
The Windows key has always done the same thing, bring up Start. It does the same thing now.
Going into an OS ignorant of how it works and then claim it's badly designed is idiotic. When I would sit down at my friend's Mac I was clueless at getting around, does that mean it's a bad OS? No, it means I haven't used it. Everyone is aware that Windows 8 was a paradigm shift in how the OS worked, it doesn't mean it's broken or that it doesn't work. I have zero trouble zooming around the OS and getting things done quickly, more quickly than in 7. I still have 7 installed on one of my computers in the house and it feels slow to get around it now for me.
As far as the ribbon, it makes using the desktop file explorer much easier on a touch device.
I feel like Microsoft has pulled a bait and switch on us with Metro. The original metro design (which is still present in the Zune software for Win7/XP) I think looks amazing. Smooth transitions, color splashed in corners sparsely illuminating patterns present, great use of translucency for visual effect, etc. The Metro that is common now looks like a vastly simplified rendition of that ideal that was scaled back exclusively to get it to work on older Win7 phones and never upgraded back to its original implementation as hardware specs increased.
It's like disabling Aero on Win7 because it can't run well on netbooks and never enabling it again for everyone else.
This is all from soemone who's sole experience with Win8 was with pre-release versions in a VM, so take it all with a grain of salt. It's just that everytime I see Win8 Metro I see the hardware limitations of the early Samsung and Nokia phones at work, and not Metro at its genesis.
There was that Verge forum post where someone applied the O.G. Metro visual design to Win8...let me see if I can dig it up..
false edit: here it is http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept
The mock-up is focused on visual theme, not so much functionality,
It's like disabling Aero on Win7 because it can't run well on netbooks and never enabling it again for everyone else.
This is all from soemone who's sole experience with Win8 was with pre-release versions in a VM, so take it all with a grain of salt. It's just that everytime I see Win8 Metro I see the hardware limitations of the early Samsung and Nokia phones at work, and not Metro at its genesis.
There was that Verge forum post where someone applied the O.G. Metro visual design to Win8...let me see if I can dig it up..
false edit: here it is http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept
The mock-up is focused on visual theme, not so much functionality,
speak for yourself. It's just much easier to find anything than it was before specially in Word. Learning it is much easier too rather going through the menus to find anything mostly hidden in there, everything is just there in view and you can find with just a look and less clicks without memorizing anything. You'd be surprised how many people actually like that and Office 2010 was very well received, that's why it's now everywhere.
here are the series of articles about the ribbon UI and why Microsoft had to do it, it's quite informative.
http://www.geologic.com/blog/why-we...d-and-what-went-wrong-11-19-2012#.UN9SUW_rztA
cartoon_soldier
Member
That looks good to me. Metro UI applied to the desktop.
My issues with Win 8 are that for my regular desktop/work use, Metro isn't useful. I want desktop all the time, I don't want to have to switch between metro and desktop use. Maybe some of this is better now, but I had issues where launching links in desktop would open up metro IE and the fact that you have two different IEs on the same PC makes zero sense.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Uh, if you actually listened to what he said the problem was that there were no visual/or other clues as to what exactly he was doing which was causing the weather app to pop up. No intro on gesture control, or anything of that matter. It could very well have been a strange glitch, but there was no way for him to know that. And you do need to type in recovery in order to make a recovery disk.
He's used many OS's and even done writing on them all, he must know something about stuff. The guy is a tool. There are certainly issues with the OS, but touchpad gestures aren't one of them. Don't do edge swipes and you will be good. I think there is also a touchpad settings app that will allow for turning them off if that is what you want. Not positive on that though, as touchpad gestures work fine for me
Edit: And if I may say so, anyone who knows anything
That is far from the only thing he talks about in the 20 min video. Did you even watch it? How would you even know about the swipes anyway without there being some sort of context?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yea I know why it was done and that something had to be done. Doesn't mean their solution was the end-all, one possible and best answer to the question of "what do with all these fucking options?" It was a bit better than what was before it, but few I know are actual fans of it. Ymmv, like everything else.
Obviously he's alluding to Microsoft, who removed the choice he was discussing.
You don't get desktop "all the time" in 7.. When you click start 7 focuses on start and you have to click the desktop to get focus back.
DragonSworne
Banned
I just upgraded from XP to Windows 7 a year ago, I'm never getting windows 8.
Dreams-Visions
Member
^ Windows 8 really is fine as long as you know there ire hot corners and are okay with doing google searches for when you hit a road block (can't find where some option is hiding). No real reason to be hostile towards it as long as you know what the 4 corners do and how to get to the desktop before installing.
You can't be serious. Are you serious? Or are you really just this obtuse and intellectually dishonest? I know you enjoy apologizing for Windows 8 at every opportunity, but this is pretty ridiculous even for you.
There is an animation that displays the gestures the first time a user account is created, so he saw it and ignored it or missed it. And, he spent a good 5 minutes bitching about it, and making a lame fart joke. The guy is a tool.
#I'llgetoveritwhenMSstopsputtingMetroWhereItDoesn'tBelong
Oh, hey, I can make shitty hashtags on GAF posts, too! This isn't twitter, though.
Gattsu said:
Looks like a whiter Windows Desktop. I don't see a huge difference, just add the start bar back and maybe Metro wouldn't be awful on desktops if the Metro was that instead of "forced touch interface where there is no touch-interface."
Dreams-Visions
Member
Just no. Your position assumes:
1.) He was watching his screen for the 5-10 seconds it shows that one arrow during the setup rather than sitting on his couch waiting for the setup to finish.
2.) That the computer hadn't already gone through the setup process.
and of course you assume that that passing mention of the right corner is even absorbed (it probably wasn't) or communicated as something mission-critical (it isn't).
Communication regarding these features can be and should have been much better. That's the bottom line. It shows that MS didn't understand that people would need some basic training to prevent these kinds of of impressions. There should have been an intro video, easily accessible from the metro UI. Perhaps overlay "reminder" arrows that point to or circle these critical things. Maybe a straight up guided tour. Leaving people to twist in the wind for awhile was a mistake.
It isn't an issue.
The issue is effectively communicating to people that the feature is there and how it works. Too many changes all at once and no training/tutorials/guides supplied to point them all out.
Delusibeta
Banned
What animation? "Put your mouse on the corners"?
Seriously, the animation in question is about as useful as a chocolate teapot, especially when you're trying to do something like log off or shut down the computer. (Incidentally, hiding these options is stupid. Hiding them in two different places? Outright insanity.) Microsoft definitely, definitely fucked up massively by a near complete lack of any obvious indication of what's new once you found your way to the desktop aside from one 10 second animation that repeats itself for five minutes.
I agree but was more just commenting on how 2006 Metro looks substantially better (IMO, naturally) than 2010 Metro
The "instructions" you get when you first install are junk. For anyone who's not aware of what you're presented with, you can see it here: http://youtu.be/pDd472KG0IA?t=35s (ignore the dude, it was the best I could find showing their tutorial)
Dreams-Visions
Member
^ yep.
Dudes here are acting like Windows 8 is their son that can't be critiqued and opinions must be taken personally or some shit. Get over yourself for a change. Yes, Windows 8 can make a terrible first impression if you're not already aware of certain key changes to the IU. That's the reality. Don't know why people can't accept that flaw and instead discuss how that can be overcome rather than just calling everyone who had a bad first experience "a tool". It's just small-minded.
Exactly. People here are bullshitting and apologizing. It's quite tiring.
Dudes here are acting like Windows 8 is their son that can't be critiqued and opinions must be taken personally or some shit. Get over yourself for a change. Yes, Windows 8 can make a terrible first impression if you're not already aware of certain key changes to the IU. That's the reality. Don't know why people can't accept that flaw and instead discuss how that can be overcome rather than just calling everyone who had a bad first experience "a tool". It's just small-minded.
fluffydelusions
Member
I have no complaints of windows 8 tbh
The animation shows immediately after typing in your user account, so he should not have missed it. Granted, it is rather bare bones, but the corners and app bar are all u need to know. But I guess I am someone who familiarizes themselves with shit before I start trying to do work. Kind of like someone would has never had to print something, would have to search around and go to the File menu, or when trying to find something on a page, go to the Edit menu.
File and Edit are on the screen, plain as day, though. Not hidden in a corner with no visual clue it's there.
Dreams-Visions
Member
It's like talking to a fucking brick wall.
You actively *try* to be contrary. You seem to be unable to accept that some people may find themselves on a Windows 8 machine expecting a few things to be different rather than the most essential and dependable parts of Windows for 25 years and may be confused about getting around without them? And you're going to bullshit us by pretending to believe that 6-second flash during the setup process is enough to prepare long-time Windows users for the first 30 minutes out of the box without prior knowledge or experiences?
Man I swore you were smarter and more nuanced than this. Clearly I was mistaken.
So with no options on screen people will just say fuck it? I am massively in favor of not putting single use shit on screen at all times in consumption applications. There are 3 things for people to remember, I personally don't find that to be difficult, but perhaps I am overestimating the intelligence of folks. The app bar should Have been demonstrated in the video though.
The video says all corners do something, give them a damn try.
The function of each are self explanatory. Once they are activated.
Ooh, obtuse is a big word...
I was being serious yes, you click start and to click an item on the desktop you have to close start, in both 7 and 8
Do Apple give detailed instruction when you first boot their os, do they tell you where everything is?
Why do MS have to do what nobody else does? At the end of the day there's only a handful of changes its not rocket science.
This is Google-level of simplistic design, with sensible sizing. Not the "Run it into the ground"-attitude that Microsoft has.
Not sure if you had to go there. It looks like the explanation hasn't changed from the builds I used and it was poorly explained then.
Delusibeta
Banned
The difference being in 7 that you can also click a good 90% of the screen area to close the Start menu. In 8, the clickable region that closes the Start menu and dumps you onto the desktop can hit zero.
Because Apple has a button that's visible on the screen nearly all the time. Microsoft, with Windows 8, has *no* button. And even then, it really doesn't excuse Microsoft hiding the Shut Down options in a completely different pocket from the Log Off options.
File and Edit contain a multitude of options, I'd hardly consider them single use, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.
Also, unless I missed something, using "right-click" to get to settings in Metro applications is another hidden action.
Because they're fucking hidden.
Delusibeta
Banned
Eh, I wouldn't be too sniffy about that. I'll be more sniffy about that being an entirely different bunch of stuff from the options produced by the Settings charm. Personally, I'd have like to have seen the right-click Metro menu pop up when the charms bar gets popped up, but that's just me.
I agree, the app bar should have been shown during the video. But settings are not located there, context options are displayed there, app settings should be placed in the right charms bar.
Was just using the file and edit menus as examples of people searching for stuff. Sure the bars aren't visible, but if there are no menus, people will learn to bring them up.
First thing I did in Windows 8 was do what the little hot corner animation portrayed... I checked the corners and explored. It's not hard a hard concept, perhaps the exploring part is too hard for some... Then I found the keyboard shortcuts.
When I first used OSX over 6 years ago I didn't know how to do anything, does that make it shitty? I was running program straight from the .dmg mount volumes for the longest time. It just means I have to learn how to use it, the computer is a tool.
I used to restore Quicklaunch with Windows 7, avoiding any exploring the start menu. I don't like a lot of programs pinned to my task bar. I dont in Windows 8, I find Metro to be a great launcher and a great addition to Windows. The apps that are metro specific are great utilities too.
So with my anecdotal evidence, we can all agree that the world loves Metro, and if they don't they're stupid... /sarcasm
When I first used OSX over 6 years ago I didn't know how to do anything, does that make it shitty? I was running program straight from the .dmg mount volumes for the longest time. It just means I have to learn how to use it, the computer is a tool.
I used to restore Quicklaunch with Windows 7, avoiding any exploring the start menu. I don't like a lot of programs pinned to my task bar. I dont in Windows 8, I find Metro to be a great launcher and a great addition to Windows. The apps that are metro specific are great utilities too.
So with my anecdotal evidence, we can all agree that the world loves Metro, and if they don't they're stupid... /sarcasm
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