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[Xanonano]

Here's a question for you guys:
Suppose you wanted to send an email with a Word document attached, but you don't know where it's saved, so you have to search for it. In Windows 7 you would press the start button, type in the name, and drag and drop the document from the list of results into the email program window. How would you do the same in Windows 8?

 

[cbox]

You should't have to get used to it. Windows 8 is one part desktop OS (one which the whole world is familiar with) and one part tablet/mobile OS which should be simple and easy to use enough to allow trouble-free content consumption. The fact that it needs a period of adjustment is indicicative that it's failing its mission of bridging the desktop with the tablet effectively.

Everything needs a period of adjustment. Some of you are treating the windows 8 transition like it suddenly going from dos to win98. Everything has an adjustment period and nobody can just jump into something new and expect to know it 100%. Hell it took me almost a month of using osx constantly to learn what expose was. In the end, Microsoft tried a new interface and it works as many have said, once you've gotten used to it. But the agenda pushers and drive by idiotic comments keep coming in droves so it's getting harder and more pointless to respond.

 

[maeh2k]

Touch is not a good human interface if your monitor is 27" or larger. Large monitors will become more popular soon since 4K is becoming a standard. If MS can not offer a different UI for large monitors, they should take W8 and flash it down the toilet.

You know why W8 is so much cheaper? because deep down MS knew W8 was junk, before the launch.

Steve Ballmer seems pretty happy with his 82" Percepive Pixel touch screen running Windows 8.

The desktop is also still in Windows 8 and it seems to handle large screens very well. Some of the apps can also make good use of larger screens allowing you to see more content.

 

[Cheech]

You know why W8 is so much cheaper? because deep down MS knew W8 was junk, before the launch.

I think the other part of their reasoning was that they would make some of that money back by selling Metro apps to PC users.

Never mind the fact that entire app ecosystem sucks, and the apps themselves can't even run in windowed mode, which blows up the "windows" paradigm in Windows.

 

[longdi]

Win8 Metro may have its detractors and defenders, but why does MS not give us an option to disable/un-install Metro totally? This is what is indefensible and serves them right.

I would install Win8 right away if i know i can remove Metro any time i want. But they wont do that because they want to force users to their App$ Marketplace.

Which of you are with me on this?

 

[Haunted]

Looks like the negative word of mouth is catching on? Most people still seem to be happy with 7 and don't see the need to upgrade and those that do take a look don't seem to like what they're seeing.

This really is a repeat of Vista, isn't it? If that's the case, Windows 9 should be awesome.

Can't wait!

Win8 Metro may have its detractors and defenders, but why does MS not give us an option to disable/un-install Metro totally? This is what is indefensible and serves them right.

I would install Win8 right away if i know i can remove Metro any time i want. But they wont do that because they want to force users to their App$ Marketplace.

Which of you are with me on this?

I would. Windows 8 is supposed to be a hair faster, and the improved copy window would probably be worth it alone. :lol

I would also install and use Windows 8 (including Metro!) on a phone or tablet. Because it seems really good for that kind of device, and I like that. I like companies developing UIs tailor-made for a specific device.

 

[cbox]

But they wont do that because they want to force users to their App$ Marketplace.

Still room for neogafs most ignorant post of 2012, I see.

 

[Betta Lines]

Here's a question for you guys:
Suppose you wanted to send an email with a Word document attached, but you don't know where it's saved, so you have to search for it. In Windows 7 you would press the start button, type in the name, and drag and drop the document from the list of results into the email program window. How would you do the same in Windows 8?

One does not simply press the start button, type in the name, and drag and drop the document from the list of results into the email program window in Windows 8.

 

[BertramCooper]

I really hope 8 finally gets Ballmer ousted.

 

[MrHicks]

I really hope 8 finally gets Ballmer ousted.

ballmer has "bestfriends4ever" status with bill gates
he will leave when he wants

 

[Kinky John]

Here's a question for you guys:
Suppose you wanted to send an email with a Word document attached, but you don't know where it's saved, so you have to search for it. In Windows 7 you would press the start button, type in the name, and drag and drop the document from the list of results into the email program window. How would you do the same in Windows 8?

If you're using a desktop email client you'd have to right-click on the file you want in the search results screen, then choose 'Open File Location', and drag/drop from the explorer window that opens. I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to explain why this way is better than the way you mentioned.

I don't think there's any way of doing it with the shitty default Mail app.

 

[maeh2k]

I really hope 8 finally gets Ballmer ousted.

Ballmer didn't design that thing, you know. I've read that regarding the design of the OS he was very hands-off.

 

[Kinky John]

And while I'm thinking about right-clicking things: why can I right-click to select multiple items on the start screen, but can only right-click to select one thing at a time in the 'All Apps' screen?

 

[Cipherr]

Win8 Metro may have its detractors and defenders, but why does MS not give us an option to disable/un-install Metro totally? This is what is indefensible and serves them right.

I would install Win8 right away if i know i can remove Metro any time i want. But they wont do that because they want to force users to their App$ Marketplace.

Which of you are with me on this?

If they brought back a W7 start menu natively developed in house, and gave a control panel option to fully disable metro, I might think about upgrading sometime down the line. But even then I'm just not sure its worth it. 7 is just so good. I can easily wait until 9.

 

[BertramCooper]

Ballmer didn't design that thing, you know. I've read that regarding the design of the OS he was very hands-off.

Are you seriously arguing that Ballmer shouldn't bear any responsibility if 8 fails?

Designer or not, he's ultimately responsible for the direction of the company as its CEO. And during his tenure, Microsoft has been consistently behind its competitors, late to embrace emerging technologies, and plagued by internal bureaucracy.

Ballmer's time is up. Windows 8 should be the last straw.

 

[Mario007]

Are you seriously arguing that Ballmer shouldn't bear any responsibility if 8 fails?

Designer or not, he's ultimately responsible for the direction of the company as its CEO. And during his tenure, Microsoft has been consistently behind its competitors, late to embrace emerging technologies, and plagued by internal bureaucracy.

Ballmer's time is up. Windows 8 should be the last straw.

It's weird that despite all that MS has still been very much profitable. Goes to show how much of a monopoly Gates built in his time. There was no way a desktop system could take on Windows, unfortunately. Thankfully with the move to more mobile devices Windows is finally going up against some competition. And competition is always good.

 

[BertramCooper]

It's weird that despite all that MS has still been very much profitable. Goes to show how much of a monopoly Gates built in his time. There was no way a desktop system could take on Windows, unfortunately. Thankfully with the move to more mobile devices Windows is finally going up against some competition. And competition is always good.

And Windows 8 is such a bizarre new beast that it might actually erode some of Microsoft's entrenched enterprise support.

 

[tino]

ballmer has "bestfriends4ever" status with bill gates
he will leave when he wants

Baldmer already has the next scapegoat ready. Julue Larson Green. When shit hit the fan next year and NPD announce W8's sales number, Baldmer will be hitting the "throw under bus" button so fast. And then he will pretend quit in person to Bill Gates so Gates can insist he stay for another term.

 

[Mario007]

And Windows 8 is such a bizarre new beast that it might actually erode some of Microsoft's entrenched enterprise support.

Well I'd presume the enterprise will just stick around the older versions of Windows. Although Google seems to be going quite aggressively after that market too, and I presume Apple will want a piece of that pie as well. Add to that that Cannonical seems to be making huge strides with enterprise support for Ubuntu as well, if their interviews are to be believed.

 

[Zabka]

I love a lot of Windows 8 but I really wish they had just made desktop and touch modes instead of the weird hybrid setup. Didn't take me more than a minute to understand the difference between a Metro app and a desktop program but it is a god damn nightmare explaining it to people.

All they had to do is let Store Apps run in a window and build in a Start Menu option. If someone's on a touch screen it fullscreens everything and gives you the Metro screen. Desktop? Same old windows.

 

[maeh2k]

Enterprise customers traditionally don't adopt new Windows releases right away and most are still upgrading to Windows 7. No one -- not even Microsoft -- expects widespread adoption of Windows 8 in enterprises. They'll continue to buy Windows licenses. Doesn't make a difference to Microsoft if they use 7 or 8.

That said, if a company wants do deploy tablets Windows 8 tablets seem quite compelling since they integrate nicely with the existing infrastructure.

So on that front I don't see how Windows 8 would hurt Microsoft.

 

[Mario007]

Enterprise customers traditionally don't adopt new Windows releases right away and most are still upgrading to Windows 7. No one -- not even Microsoft -- expects widespread adoption of Windows 8 in enterprises. They'll continue to buy Windows licenses. Doesn't make a difference to Microsoft if they use 7 or 8.

That said, if a company wants do deploy tablets Windows 8 tablets seem quite compelling since they integrate nicely with the existing infrastructure.

So on that front I don't see how Windows 8 would hurt Microsoft.

It'll depend how relevant Win8 tablet market will be really. I think most companies looking at tablets now look at iPads and Galaxy Notes.

 

[kitch9]

Here's a question for you guys:
Suppose you wanted to send an email with a Word document attached, but you don't know where it's saved, so you have to search for it. In Windows 7 you would press the start button, type in the name, and drag and drop the document from the list of results into the email program window. How would you do the same in Windows 8?

File explorer, which is in the taskbar on desktop by default , or in the event you are using an app, search from within the app.

Simple.

 

[BertramCooper]

Enterprise customers traditionally don't adopt new Windows releases right away and most are still upgrading to Windows 7. No one -- not even Microsoft -- expects widespread adoption of Windows 8 in enterprises. They'll continue to buy Windows licenses. Doesn't make a difference to Microsoft if they use 7 or 8.

That said, if a company wants do deploy tablets Windows 8 tablets seem quite compelling since they integrate nicely with the existing infrastructure.

So on that front I don't see how Windows 8 would hurt Microsoft.

A lot of it depends on if Microsoft doubles down on the Windows 8 approach or scraps it with the next iteration.

For now, they can still stick with older versions of Windows. But as Microsoft begins dropping support for older versions, like they'll be doing with XP in the next couple of years, it could make things interesting.

 

[kitch9]

Enterprise customers traditionally don't adopt new Windows releases right away and most are still upgrading to Windows 7. No one -- not even Microsoft -- expects widespread adoption of Windows 8 in enterprises. They'll continue to buy Windows licenses. Doesn't make a difference to Microsoft if they use 7 or 8.

That said, if a company wants do deploy tablets Windows 8 tablets seem quite compelling since they integrate nicely with the existing infrastructure.

So on that front I don't see how Windows 8 would hurt Microsoft.

Windows 8 is in the consumer cycle... Corporations tend to skip a cycle and not many corporations upgraded to Vista, they all went from XP to 7...

8 ties with 7 nicely, so as you say there's plenty of scope for corporations to slowly starting moving the new OS in with tablets etc, before making the big switch.

 

[Xanonano]

File explorer, which is in the taskbar on desktop by default

Searching in File Explorer only lets you search one folder at a time. You can't be sure of finding the file unless you run the search in multiple folders.

or in the event you are using an app, search from within the app.

Simple.

So you're in the mail app and you click the attachment button, which takes you to the metro file picker. How do you search for the document from there?

 

[kitch9]

Searching in File Explorer only lets you search one folder at a time. You can't be sure of finding the file unless you run the search in multiple folders.
So you're in the mail app and you click the attachment button, which takes you to the metro file picker. How do you search for the document from there?

File explorer / computer / search will search your entire pc if you want...

I have to be honest my knowledge of the Apps is reasonably limited as I just tend to use Desktop as I always have....

 

[Xanonano]

File explorer / computer / search will search your entire pc if you want...

And it takes forever due to it searching all the non-indexed system and program folders on your PC. The Start menu search just searches indexed locations.

You still haven't explained how to search for a file within the mail app, by the way.

 

[Zabka]

Hit the attach button in the email and use the search inside that?

 

[Xanonano]

Hit the attach button in the email and use the search inside that?

What search? The one in the charms bar? Because that just searches your emails. (Yes, you can change the scope to search for files, but it doesn't let you attach a file from the results pane to the email.)

 

[Ken Masters]

I still haven't seen a windows 8 tablet in the wild but I sure as hell have seen the commercial a million times

 

[Zabka]

What search? The one in the charms bar? Because that just searches your emails. (Yes, you can change the scope to search for files, but it doesn't let you attach a file from the results pane to the email.)

I use Outlook like a civilized person, so i just search in the normal dialog box.

 

[kitch9]

And it takes forever due to it searching all the non-indexed system and program folders on your PC. The Start menu search just searches indexed locations.

You still haven't explained how to search for a file within the mail app, by the way.

I don't use many apps TBH, apart from maybe the odd News one. I use 8 as I tend to have always used Windows....

I tend to know mostly where my files are so I'm not a big user of search, but as with anything, I would imagine the more you can narrow down the search the quicker it will be....

May I suggest keeping your documents in Documents, and Pictures in Pictures etc etc..... Randomly placing files all over your C drive only to complain when it takes ages to find them sounds a bit....... Crazy. Sorry, but it does.

I don't intend on using the basic Mail app anytime soon as I use Outlook.... I'm not a head banger who slaps my head constantly if a program doesn't quite work how I'd like.... I just find a program that does.

 

[Uno Venova]

I still haven't seen a windows 8 tablet in the wild but I sure as hell have seen the commercial a million times

They have been trying hard, they even have giant ads covering up entire trains in NY, this situation definitely shows advertising isn't everything.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

when my parents saw they an ad they thought Microsoft made a keyboard attachment for the iPad... heh

 

[Damon Bennet]

They have been trying hard, they even have giant ads covering up entire trains in NY, this situation definitely shows advertising isn't everything.

weirdly, I have not seen a single surface ad in europe. I'd say 9/10 of my friends dont even know about surface.

 

[kitch9]

Win8 Metro may have its detractors and defenders, but why does MS not give us an option to disable/un-install Metro totally? This is what is indefensible and serves them right.

I would install Win8 right away if i know i can remove Metro any time i want. But they wont do that because they want to force users to their App$ Marketplace.

Which of you are with me on this?

They don't force you anywhere, if you don't want to use apps, don't use them.... Where are you people getting this crap from?

"Metro" is simply a full screen Start menu, customise it how you want, some things are easier on it and some the same, and some more difficult. All in all IMO its a minor improvement on an already great OS....

 

[kitch9]

when my parents saw they an ad they thought Microsoft made a keyboard attachment for the iPad... heh

Whats the point of this post?

 

[Damon Bennet]

Whats the point of this post?

anecdotal evidence that the ads are not good.
and while i am at it, explaining posts: yours is a bitter, passive aggressive one. congrats.

 

[Xanonano]

I use Outlook like a civilized person, so i just search in the normal dialog box.

So there isn't a search function in the file picker.

I don't use many apps TBH, apart from maybe the odd News one. I use 8 as I tend to have always used Windows....

I tend to know mostly where my files are so I'm not a big user of search, but as with anything, I would imagine the more you can narrow down the search the quicker it will be....

May I suggest keeping your documents in Documents, and Pictures in Pictures etc etc..... Randomly placing files all over your C drive only to complain when it takes ages to find them sounds a bit....... Crazy. Sorry, but it does.

I don't do that though. I put files in folders on external drives, and add them to the libraries. If I've downloaded a document from the internet, it'll still be in the Downloads folder. Windows 7 lets you search both of those at the same time. Windows 8 doesn't.

I don't intend on using the basic Mail app anytime soon as I use Outlook.... I'm not a head banger who slaps my head constantly if a program doesn't quite work how I'd like.... I just find a program that does.

That's okay (as long as you aren't using a Surface, since you can't install Outlook on it). But even if you are using Outlook, you can't search directly like you could in Windows 7 and will have to go through multiple extra steps.

 

[longdi]

They don't force you anywhere, if you don't want to use apps, don't use them.... Where are you people getting this crap from?

"Metro" is simply a full screen Start menu, customise it how you want, some things are easier on it and some the same, and some more difficult. All in all IMO its a minor improvement on an already great OS....

idk but Win8 does not allow me to uninstall metro completely and boot straight to desktop mode. And those Live Tiles.....iirc i need to disable and delete them myself...one by one....mouse and apps dont mix. And apps on my PC confuses me with the normal "programs" which im more used to.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Whats the point of this post?

a bunch of college kids dancing around generic looking tablets, with the only unique aspect being a brightly colored keyboard, the only branding of which is a windows logo at the end.

Gee, I wonder how my parents came to the conclusion it was a keyboard attachment for tablets and not actually the tablet itself.

Here's the commercial in question.

If you weren't entirely familiar with tablets, wouldn't you think it was a commercial for the keyboard attachment and not the actual device? They seriously thought a "Microsoft Surface" was a keyboard. Look how much the keyboard, not the GUI, is highlighted in the first 20 seconds, when people are paying the most attention.

It's not a ridiculous thing to pull from that commercial. Remove the images of the Win8 GUI from those tablets (because assume the people watching don't know one tablet UI from the other) and tell me it isn't a commercial for a tablet keyboard.


Compare it with a similar length iPad commercial.. Not the focus on using the product. The product is the focus, it's glowing on a black backdrop, showing the user what the iPad can do. It doesn't assume you know it's an iPad, it shows you why you need this device and what it can do. In fact, the iOS menu is never shown. There's no distracting dancing or clipping on keyboard attachments that are highlighted, nor are there more shots of people and the back of the tablet than people actually using the tablet for what it's good at.

 

[Pooya]

And it takes forever due to it searching all the non-indexed system and program folders on your PC. The Start menu search just searches indexed locations.

You still haven't explained how to search for a file within the mail app, by the way.

you can't, file options in modern UI are pretty poor. there is no drag and dropping of files either from what I've used so far.

you go and install something like Windows Live Mail for that :3

the metro mail app is quite basic, it's good for checking mails quickly and send quick responses and get notifications on your screen, but if you want to do more than that it's not a replacement for windows mail.

that's basically true for all of the modern apps I've tried, they lack many features, they are just for quick uses.

 

[Hoo-doo]

a bunch of college kids dancing around generic looking tablets, with the only unique aspect being a brightly colored keyboard, the only branding of which is a windows logo at the end.

Gee, I wonder how my parents came to the conclusion it was a keyboard attachment for tablets and not actually the tablet itself.

Here's the commercial in question.

If you weren't entirely familiar with tablets, wouldn't you think it was a commercial for the keyboard attachment and not the actual device? They seriously thought a "Microsoft Surface" was a keyboard. Look how much the keyboard, not the GUI, is highlighted in the first 20 seconds, when people are paying the most attention.

It's not a ridiculous thing to pull from that commercial. Remove the images of the Win8 GUI from those tablets (because assume the people watching don't know one tablet UI from the other) and tell me it isn't a commercial for a tablet keyboard.

Microsoft would probably make more money if they decided to scrap the entire surface project and just sell those snap-on keyboards for iPads.

I'd buy it.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Windows 8's hidden contextual menus and over-reliance on mouse hot corners have made kitch9 more angry than he realizes.

 

[kitch9]

So there isn't a search function in the file picker.

I don't do that though. I put files in folders on external drives, and add them to the libraries. If I've downloaded a document from the internet, it'll still be in the Downloads folder. Windows 7 lets you search both of those at the same time. Windows 8 doesn't.
That's okay (as long as you aren't using a Surface, since you can't install Outlook on it). But even if you are using Outlook, you can't search directly like you could in Windows 7 and will have to go through multiple extra steps.

Again, I'm not a massive search user but I'm certain that you can search entire libraries from file explorer and even add downloads to a particular library if you regularly want it to be part of that search If you want.

I'm not saying it's perfect and I'm sure it will be tweaked but it should be easily customized to do what you want.

 

[kitch9]

a bunch of college kids dancing around generic looking tablets, with the only unique aspect being a brightly colored keyboard, the only branding of which is a windows logo at the end.

Gee, I wonder how my parents came to the conclusion it was a keyboard attachment for tablets and not actually the tablet itself.

Here's the commercial in question.

If you weren't entirely familiar with tablets, wouldn't you think it was a commercial for the keyboard attachment and not the actual device? They seriously thought a "Microsoft Surface" was a keyboard. Look how much the keyboard, not the GUI, is highlighted in the first 20 seconds, when people are paying the most attention.

It's not a ridiculous thing to pull from that commercial. Remove the images of the Win8 GUI from those tablets (because assume the people watching don't know one tablet UI from the other) and tell me it isn't a commercial for a tablet keyboard.


Compare it with a similar length iPad commercial.. Not the focus on using the product. The product is the focus, it's glowing on a black backdrop, showing the user what the iPad can do. It doesn't assume you know it's an iPad, it shows you why you need this device and what it can do. In fact, the iOS menu is never shown. There's no distracting dancing or clipping on keyboard attachments that are highlighted, nor are there more shots of people and the back of the tablet than people actually using the tablet for what it's good at.

My grandmother, God rest her soul once mistook a microphone for a telephone..... It wasn't the microphone manufacturers fault.

 

[Zabka]

My grandmother, God rest her soul once mistook a microphone for a telephone..... It wasn't the microphone manufacturers fault.

The microphone wasn't intuitive!

 

[tci]

What ultimately is the culprint for the low sales is us tech users.

Most of the complains came from "tech savy" users which couldn't handle change. If they would actually use Win8 properly then they would have seen that there is a lot of improvements all over. It's like watching a bad soap opera. Win8 in itself is a great product. I find the whole mess the tech community have created to be quite funny actually. Win9 will come with minimal changes and they will love it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

My grandmother, God rest her soul once mistook a microphone for a telephone..... It wasn't the microphone manufacturers fault.

My parents are middle aged lol. They know what a tablet is, they successfully bought me a great iPad.

The ad is terrible. How do I use the Surface? Does it make me dance? Oh look, it lets me look at pictures, so does every single other handheld device on the planet including a DS.

What features does the Surface show from that commercial that make people want to go and buy one? Better yet, that let people even know what it is.

Here, have a Nook commercial
Note the focus on reading. At the end it shows the device, with branding next to it, no mistaking the commercial is for the device. No flashy distractions, a clear focus on what the product is, and what it's good at (in this case, reading eBooks).

Here's a Kindle commercial. I'd say this commercial isn't very strong either. It's sure attention getting though, and it does stuff better than the surface commercial, but it's still not great. However, note again, like the Nook commercial, the end with the branding, the device and what it does. So make an attention getting ad that has a payoff at the end.


The surface ad doesn't do this. White text on a solid background with a generic word on it doesn't tell anybody anything. Show the device. "Surface" "A tablet powered by Windows 8" Let the user at least know what you're selling. Having people dance around with colors everywhere with absolutely no indication what part of the commercial is being sold is just bad. There's no branding, no focus on selling the product. The commercial needs to be about what the device does and why the customer needs it. The surface commercial doesn't do any of that AND it leaves the user confused on what a surface even is.