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[Globox_82]

I'll just leave this here, sums up my thoughts nicely:

"The truth is that if a word is racial and it offends people, it’s a slur. The person who says the word doesn’t get to decide whether it’s offensive or not; it’s the group to which they refer. Otherwise, you could justify using any racial slur whatsoever by just saying you didn’t mean it that way. Any smart redneck closet racist will tell you that he doesn’t mean ‘nigger’ in a bad way; it’s just what he calls black people, so why get so upset? (I’m not comparing ‘n***er’ to ‘gaijin’; it’s just meant as an analogy).

Whether it’s harmless or nasty, it perpetuates an ‘us and them’ worldview that’s harmful to Japan as a whole. This worldview makes it okay for people to discriminate against those who look differently than them."

well said

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

calling someone a "gaijin" isnt racist

some may feel it has a negative connotation, but it isnt the equivalent of N*ga or J*p

I'm not worked up by what he said, I've had the word directed my way often enough, but yes it has a negative connotation, and it's not far off from what would be considered racism most of the time. Imagine he's saying "those people" or "you people." Gaikokujin is the less douchey word to use. Gaikoku no kata if you're feeling flowery.

Unless somebody calls me gaijin-san. I find that hilarious.

 

[demidar]

I'll just leave this here, sums up my thoughts nicely:

"The truth is that if a word is racial and it offends people, it’s a slur. The person who says the word doesn’t get to decide whether it’s offensive or not; it’s the group to which they refer. Otherwise, you could justify using any racial slur whatsoever by just saying you didn’t mean it that way. Any smart redneck closet racist will tell you that he doesn’t mean ‘nigger’ in a bad way; it’s just what he calls black people, so why get so upset? (I’m not comparing ‘n***er’ to ‘gaijin’; it’s just meant as an analogy).

Whether it’s harmless or nasty, it perpetuates an ‘us and them’ worldview that’s harmful to Japan as a whole. This worldview makes it okay for people to discriminate against those who look differently than them."

I'm not offended at all by his comments and use of the word 'foreigners'. WHAT NOW?

Learn to read intent and context.

 

[saichi]

Uh, from my understanding "gaijin" means "outsider" and is used to describe foreigners in a negative context. It's not a polite word and clearly has racial overtones.

The problem is that you just set your mind that "gaijin" is racism word while it's not.

 

[Flachmatuch]

Whether it’s harmless or nasty, it perpetuates an ‘us and them’ worldview that’s harmful to Japan as a whole. This worldview makes it okay for people to discriminate against those who look differently than them."

That would be true if Western civilisation (and the Western empire of the day) didn't actually divide the world into "us and them". But, you know, it did and it still does. It's probably unnoticable for an American or a Brit or a French or a Canadian or a Belgian, but there is a division and it is forced upon people, and the civilisations and cultures that survived were the cultures that resisted and to some extent treasured this "us and them" division. It was real. And it was forced upon weaker civilisations and destroyed them. So do not be offended by xenophoby, it's a natural reaction to how history unfolded. And some people remember history.

 

[Aaron]

Just because I don't agree with what you said doesn't mean I didn't read your post

This isn't really a matter of opinion. Your definition of gaijin is factually inaccurate and sensationalist. All he was doing is calling an idiot an idiot. End of story. He wasn't insulting anyone except someone who very clearly deserved it.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

It's probably not a great idea to try and redefine meanings of words on the internet.

Try reading, it'll help

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Uh, from my understanding "gaijin" means "outsider" and is used to describe foreigners in a negative context. It's not a polite word and clearly has racial overtones.

Gaijin and Gaigokujin literally means "person from the outside" and "person not from this country but from another". It can be used in a derogatory manner but its intentless meaning is as harmless as the word foreigner or outsider. It is not a slur nor slang. The same kanji has the same meanings in Mandarin Chinese.

 

[pseudomyxoma]

I think the number of people Hideki Kamiya follows is very telling about his personality. Though I generally find the twitter funny

 

[EVOL 100%]

Gaijin and Gaigokujin literally means "person from the outside" and "person not from this country but from another". It can be used in a derogatory manner but its intentless meaning is as harmless as the word foreigner or outsider. It is not a slur nor slang. The same kanji has the same meanings in Mandarin Chinese.

And in Korean.

ffs this is getting too frustrating for me, time to bail out

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm not offended at all by his comments and use of the word 'foreigners'. WHAT NOW?

Learn to read intent and context.

You can't be serious

1. He was clearly using the word in a negative context

2. You are just one person. There are plenty of black people who aren't offended by the N word but that doesn't mean it isn't racist.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Try reading, it'll help

I agree, maybe if you read more you could understand the difference between xenophobia & racism.

 

[MikeE21286]

hahaha "Do you eat shit"

oh man...

 

[Baconsammy]

Kamiya is so racist/xenophobic against foreigners that he spends time responding to them all day and is actually nice if they don't ask him stupid questions or something he's answered 5000 times.

This isn't proof of one being a racist/xenophobe or not. I'm not saying he is one, just that what you described isn't evidence that he isn't. At this point all he is to me is a guy that makes games who also happens to be a complete idiot on Twitter.

 

[MachoSuave]

I'll just leave this here, sums up my thoughts nicely:

"The truth is that if a word is racial and it offends people, it’s a slur. The person who says the word doesn’t get to decide whether it’s offensive or not; it’s the group to which they refer. Otherwise, you could justify using any racial slur whatsoever by just saying you didn’t mean it that way. Any smart redneck closet racist will tell you that he doesn’t mean ‘nigger’ in a bad way; it’s just what he calls black people, so why get so upset? (I’m not comparing ‘n***er’ to ‘gaijin’; it’s just meant as an analogy).

Whether it’s harmless or nasty, it perpetuates an ‘us and them’ worldview that’s harmful to Japan as a whole. This worldview makes it okay for people to discriminate against those who look differently than them."

The word isn't racial, foreigner can apply to anyone foreign, regardless of race. And I choose to not be offended, therefore it is not a slur in my eyes. Is that what you're getting at, independent interpretation? Words tend to have solid meanings and when people choose to interpret them differently, all kinds of stupid shit can go down.

If we're going to talk personal views, I love the us-and-them approach, not in discriminating (nasty), but in celebrating (harmless) our differences and sharing in one another's culture, it's what makes each country unique and exotic. Blurring those lines has a far more detrimental affect than tarring everyone with the same brush as identical humans.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I'm looking at it right now? Unless this is a joke I don't get.

got my hopes up man

 

[Flachmatuch]

You can't be serious

1. He was clearly using the word in a negative context

This seems to be true imo. That's called xenophoby. Not racism. Not according to any definition of the word. And it was not worse than the original Kotaku approach, or the ridiculous "OH JAPAN IS SO WEIRD BECAUSE BECAUSE PANTY MACHINES AND TENTACLE PORN" crap which is not exactly uncommon on gaming sites, and is way more offensive than anything Kamiya ever said. And again. If you want your civilisation to survive against the West, xenophoby and isolation is your best bet.

2. You are just one person. There are plenty of black people who aren't offended by the N word but that doesn't mean it isn't racist.

Conversely, you alone declaring the word "foreigner" "racist", despite what it actually means, is not enough to make it so.

 

[demidar]

You can't be serious

1. He was clearly using the word in a negative context

2. You are just one person. There are plenty of black people who aren't offended by the N word but that doesn't mean it isn't racist.

Gaijin isn't racist. Try reading, it'll help.

 

[EVOL 100%]

2. You are just one person. There are plenty of black people who aren't offended by the N word but that doesn't mean it isn't racist.

False equivalency

 

[Kacho]

Quoting this again because I thought it was pretty good.

It literally offends every race at once! The voltron of racial slurs

 

[Interrobang]

got my hopes up man

Ha, sorry, friend.

I do think we should stop fighting amongst ourselves about this Kamiya isn't a God/Racism stuff and get back on track to how Kotaku isn't addressing this nonsense.

 

[Coolwhip]

Some of you act like he is a politician, he's a freakin videogame maker.

 

[grimshawish]

Theres been a mightily weird groundswell of it, often unconsciously, in the western games media at large this generation though. Maybe its because games journalists began to reap the benefits of having western buddies in game dev they can easily chat to and get favours from in the past decade as compared to the confusing disconnected situation of having to eat out of translators hands when Japan was the indisputable centre of the hottest videogames. Just referring to Kamiya as "bayonetta guy" is almost entirely a symptom of that.

Yeah basically the Western Journalists (or possibly only english speaking) are buddies with a bunch of Western devs. Its why you'll see them basically talk very human about devs and people working at them, then when it comes to Japanese staff - they treat them not as a developer but as workers of a publisher.

Most recent I've found is Polygon's Arthur Gies making out that NoJ ticking off NoA stuff as somehow a 'Japanese Cultural' thing; as if NoJ doesn't have a department dealing with world releases with very talented people working there. Or that Microsoft and other companies don't do the exact same thing. Its how a corporation works, yet some of the press would like it to be that NoA is somehow its own company, licensed Nintendo - as oppose to a global organisation. (not saying its perfect, but saying this is top down Japanese only stuff is ridiculous, Nintendo is perfectly manageable from Japan, its not got that broad a product range). Lots of American/European companies do exactly the same; its not evidence of Japan not listening to NoA or dictating to them; just thats not their responsibility.

The Eurogamer Xbox to Japan article is an example of how this is actually more a foreigners view of Japan as oppose to the game media. All these Microsoft guys are talking about how hypocritical the info they were getting was (can't make a black console cause it means death or something and yet PS2 is black); but they act like they held a referendum with 'Japan' who got back to them. As oppose to hiring a local company, whose main function was to brain storm possible issues. They really failed to move into that market, instead treating it as entirely Alien. The truth is MS just need to replicate the way they took the US but with Japanese tastes in mind - otherwise consumers in Japan will be less interested in their consoles.


Its like the supposed 'decline' in Japan. Yet the Western Media compare Japan to the ENTIRE North West region of the globe. Basically white origins and white colonies. They then conveinently forget to identify Nintendo as Japanese (except when it suits them); and success stories - like Platinum and Level 5 (there recovering from a bad spell now).

Same reason no one mention SEGA when talking about Total War but they'll mention EA whenever mentioning Bioware. Every time.


It really is just a big cultural divide. I don't feel the media make enough attempts to either be fair or use their common sense when discussing Japan. They don't treat their output as art, but purely commercial output. As oppose to how they treat Western devs. Thats how I see it anyway.

 

[Baconsammy]

.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

The problem is that you just set your mind that "gaijin" is racism word while it's not.

What is the easiest way to differentiate between human beings? Race. That's why when a group of white kids are describing a their African-American friend they'll say "He's the black guy" (or vice versa). This isn't racist but race in itself is the easiest way to not only self identify, but discriminate as well.

When using the word "gaijin" I believe that Kamiya in this instance is putting up this barrier between "us" and "them" based on race. This is just my opinion, you can think it's wrong and that's fine.

We can all argue all day over whether or not the dude was being racist or not but the fact of the matter is that Kamiya acting like a giant man-child here. Yeah it's entertaining but is this the type of behavior you expect from a grown ass man? I don't think anyone can deny that he is rude to fans and completely over the top with his comments to Kotaku. I'm not defending that piece of shit site, but there's a better way to go about voicing your displeasure.

 

[2San]

False equivalency

How about gay? It isn't inherently a bad word, it becomes bad depending on context. Similar to Gaijin.

However when you constantly insult another person with "idiot", "douchebag" and end it with "some stupid fucking idiot gays. "

You tell me how everything is fine?

Let me say it again; I don't think Kamiya is racist, I do think he's ignorant and should mind is language.

 

[DerZuhälter]

This is why "games journalism" is such a joke. Every decent journalist would probably ask for a follow up interview after these tweets, yet in this "industry" people go with easy way, the yellow press tabloid shit way, and running a story based on a max. 140 character reply.

It is straight up laughable.

What happens next is a carnivale of stupid surrounding a developer flinging poo in all directions which should make any PR consultant cringe.

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

Kamiha has made great games but I don't like him trash talking.

That is not something Japanese people normally do.

 

[Carbonox]

This is why Hideki Kamiya is pretty much my favourite guy in the industry. Just doesn't give a flying fuck.

 

[P90]

after he made that racist twit I am never again buying any of his games. It's funny how most of you are defending him. If some westerner said something like that you would be all over his balls.

It was completly unnecessary to say something like that.
and to use his logic, why did he say forigners? Is Luke representing all forigners? Shadow racism is the best, but knowing Japan that is no surprise.

In the context, it sure seems that Kamiya is directing his vitriol at Kotaku, not at all non-Japanese.

Regardless, it is a mild heat-of-the-moment comment. I find no offense. I would buy Kamiya a beer and chat with him at the bar. Heck, I bet he would be probably a cool guy to work with/for. But that is what I gather from reading his tweets and interviews. You may see things differently.

edit: Technically, he is correct. Japanese have, on average, a statistically significant higher IQ than Americans in this meta-study.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v297/n5863/abs/297222a0.html

 

[EVOL 100%]

How about gay? It isn't inherently a bad word, it becomes bad depending on context. Similar to Gaijin.

However when you constantly insult another person with "idiot", "douchebag" and end it with "some stupid fucking idiot gays. "

You tell me how everything is fine?

False equivalency again

 

[Onemic]

I'll just leave this here, sums up my thoughts nicely:

"The truth is that if a word is racial and it offends people, it’s a slur. The person who says the word doesn’t get to decide whether it’s offensive or not; it’s the group to which they refer. Otherwise, you could justify using any racial slur whatsoever by just saying you didn’t mean it that way. Any smart redneck closet racist will tell you that he doesn’t mean ‘n****r’ in a bad way; it’s just what he calls black people, so why get so upset? (I’m not comparing ‘n***er’ to ‘gaijin’; it’s just meant as an analogy).

Whether it’s harmless or nasty, it perpetuates an ‘us and them’ worldview that’s harmful to Japan as a whole. This worldview makes it okay for people to discriminate against those who look differently than them."

EDIT: And it's "xenophobia", don't treat me like a child

Comparing the word foreigner to nigger to try and prove your point? ohhhhh boy.

Natural's Law all up in this.

 

[Serra]

Haha, Kamiya is so hilarious.

Has anyone from Kotaku tried to defend their dogshit article? jscreider? (can't spell his name for the life of me, sorry)

 

[Kai Dracon]

Kamiha has made great games but I don't like him trash talking.

That is not something Japanese people normally do.

Well, westerners have been griping that the Japanese should catch up to the ways of the west...

 

[2San]

False equivalency again

In what way? In both cases it's a word that can be interpreted in a positive and negative way.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Gaijin isn't racist. Try reading, it'll help.

Ah you're hopeless. I'm putting you on ignore not because you disagree with me, but because you are literally bringing nothing to the conversation. I appreciate the other posters who disagree with my opinion because at least they are making an effort to display their point of view.

See ya.

 

[dave is ok]

People stating 100% that gaijin isn't a racist term: Why do other terms exist for foreign born people, then?

It might not be on par with some of the more offensive racial slurs like the mentioned n-bomb, but what about gringo, haole, auslander, etc.? Would you put it on par with those?

 

[Gucci Messiah]

False equivalency again

You have no idea what false equivalence is my friend

 

[Baconsammy]

You can't be serious

1. He was clearly using the word in a negative context

2. You are just one person. There are plenty of black people who aren't offended by the N word but that doesn't mean it isn't racist.

Foreigners aren't a race, so using 'gaijin' isn't racist. It's insensitive and pathetic though. The same people praising him for it would most likely poop their pants if someone in America lamented the "inferior" thoughts, views, and/or actions of "them foreigners." And they'd be right to have an issue with that. Generalizing huge groups of people like that to make yourself feel superior is the action of a small person. There's a reason we mock the people that do it in America.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Comparing the word foreigner to nigger to try and prove your point? ohhhhh boy.

Natural's Law all up in this.

You literally have no reading comprehension skills. Here, I'll bold it for you this time my man

I'll just leave this here, sums up my thoughts nicely:

"The truth is that if a word is racial and it offends people, it’s a slur. The person who says the word doesn’t get to decide whether it’s offensive or not; it’s the group to which they refer. Otherwise, you could justify using any racial slur whatsoever by just saying you didn’t mean it that way. Any smart redneck closet racist will tell you that he doesn’t mean ‘n****r’ in a bad way; it’s just what he calls black people, so why get so upset? (I’m not comparing ‘n***er’ to ‘gaijin’; it’s just meant as an analogy).

Whether it’s harmless or nasty, it perpetuates an ‘us and them’ worldview that’s harmful to Japan as a whole. This worldview makes it okay for people to discriminate against those who look differently than them."

 

[Interfectum]

Didn't Kamiya do Devil May Cry and Resident Evil 2? I'll give him a pass. Though I would be nice if he did look at Steam / PC gaming. I would love to see his newest games on there.

 

[Serra]

The same people praising him for it would most likely poop their pants if someone in America lamented the "inferior" thoughts, views, and/or actions of "them foreigners." And they'd be right to have an issue with that. Generalizing huge groups of people like that to make yourself feel superior is the action of a small person. There's a reason we mock the people that do it in America.

And yet Kotaku is based on making fun of Japan "OH LOOK THEY ARE SO WEIRD AND SO BACKWARD".

But I guess thats exactly why people mock kotaku.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

People stating 100% that gaijin isn't a racist term: Why do other terms exist for foreign born people, then?

It might not be on par with some of the more offensive racial slurs like the mentioned n-bomb, but what about gringo, haole, auslander, etc.? Would you put it on par with those?

As I have explained earlier, the terms literally mean outsider or foreigner.

Gaijin and Gaigokujin literally means "person from the outside" and "person not from this country but from another". It can be used in a derogatory manner but its intentless meaning is as harmless as the word foreigner or outsider. It is not a slur nor slang. The same kanji has the same meanings in Mandarin Chinese.

They were not created to insult anyone. These terms can only mean foreigner or outsider.
http://jisho.org/words?jap=外国人&eng=&dict=edict
You need a word that means foreigner in any language, isn't it?

 

[Baconsammy]

And yet Kotaku is based on making fun of Japan "OH LOOK THEY ARE SO WEIRD AND SO BACKWARD".

But I guess that exactly why people mock kotaku.

It's one of numerous reasons people mock Kotaku.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I'll just leave this here, sums up my thoughts nicely:

"The truth is that if a word is racial and it offends people, it’s a slur. The person who says the word doesn’t get to decide whether it’s offensive or not; it’s the group to which they refer. Otherwise, you could justify using any racial slur whatsoever by just saying you didn’t mean it that way. Any smart redneck closet racist will tell you that he doesn’t mean ‘n****r’ in a bad way; it’s just what he calls black people, so why get so upset? (I’m not comparing ‘n***er’ to ‘gaijin’; it’s just meant as an analogy).

Whether it’s harmless or nasty, it perpetuates an ‘us and them’ worldview that’s harmful to Japan as a whole. This worldview makes it okay for people to discriminate against those who look differently than them."

EDIT: And it's "xenophobia", don't treat me like a child

I don't know whether your understanding of history or language is the more appalling.

 

[CoLaN]

This is why "games journalism" is such a joke. Every decent journalist would probably ask for a follow up interview after these tweets, yet in this "industry" people go with easy way, the yellow press tabloid shit way, and running a story based on a max. 140 character reply.

It is straight up laughable.

What happens next is a carnivale of stupid surrounding a developer flinging poo in all directions which should make any PR consultant cringe.

I really don't get why so many people on NeoGAF keep attacking games journalism as a whole. You seem to think that "conventional" journalism is something better; bad pieces are written in every branch of journalism.
Hell, there are a lot of journalists that just regurgitate what news agencies write, adding just a tip of additional info with various degrees of accuracy.

 

[MachoSuave]

People stating 100% that gaijin isn't a racist term: Why do other terms exist for foreign born people, then?

It might not be on par with some of the more offensive racial slurs like the mentioned n-bomb, but what about gringo, haole, auslander, etc.? Would you put it on par with those?

How less offensive can you be in referring to someone who is foreign than a "foreigner"? Those other terms exist solely to be offensive, as far as I know "foreigner" is the one word we have that can be used to state that someone is foreign without being derogatory.

What happens next is a carnivale of stupid surrounding a developer flinging poo in all directions which should make any PR consultant cringe.

At least he had the courtesy to ask whether he would enjoy partaking in shit whilst hurling it at him.

 

[Zaventem]

blah blah white people get offended by the use of the word foreigner.You don't plan on buy his games who cares? Maybe you had a different idea about japan thanks to filling your heads with anime shit.

 

[Coolwhip]

Don't do that.

Edited because I get banned a lot, damn you for quoting.
But really, why is this causing so much trouble, if you follow the guy on Twitter he trolls people like this all day.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Didn't Kamiya do Devil May Cry and Resident Evil 2? I'll give him a pass. Though I would be nice if he did look at Steam / PC gaming. I would love to see his games on there.

Yes, but even if he did look at Steam/PC is not his call. Sega, Nintendo and Konami published all PG games, is their call to do a Steam/PC version or not.