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[Aquamarine]

Honestly, I think the biggest reason people are annoyed is because they know that Nintendo's capable of more interesting stuff than another Mario Kart. CoD doesn't get as much shit because nobody expects Activision to churn out anything more interesting than that. Arguably, they're not even capable of it. Nintendo's track record is different -- they've put out enough crazy good, innovative games over the years that it's downright disappointing when they're wasting their resources on some weak shit for your grandparents.

That's quite an insult to the talent at Sledgehammer / Infinity Ward / Treyarch! I hope any of those guys didn't read that post...

 

[Laguna]

I´m sure there will be the same complaints when the new Gran Tourismo will be announced...

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Yes really.

Twilight Princess had a token wolf gimmick that really didn't matter after the first part of the game. The sailing in Wind Waker was 1) fundamentally flawed by a stupid mechanic and 2) just a way to travel the overworld like a horse in Ocarina and Majora's Mask. The flying in Skyward Sword was just traveling across the overworld.

Majora's Mask was a substantial change in a lot of ways. SS, WW and TP are Ocarina with some gimmicks.

Wind Waker's focus is squarely on the overworld as a place, rather than MM and OoT which treated it as just a way to connect stuff.

Skyward Sword makes numerous little changes to the formula and progression, and it adds up. the game functions quite differently from its predecessors, and as a result it's an odd one for many people to finally decide the Zelda formula has become stale.

 

[pixlexic]

Seems like the new game announcements struck a nerv with some people here as well . Lol

Why would more games announced from nintendo be a bad thing?

 

[Dave Meltzer]

They are not massively different but they try new thing and there's hit and miss. I mean they don't always make the same thing like many people seem to think.

I'm a massive Zelda fan, and when the formula is done right (TP, Ocarina) I'm in heaven. But that image posted is a load of bullshit made by somebody who's angry at people for being mean to his favourite company.

 

[liger05]

Why are nintendo held to a different standard than everybody else? The Nintendo Direct was straight fire yet somehow its turned into something negative.

If it was sony doing a vita heaven dropping so many bombs I dont think we would see such BS like this.

Not to mention if Nintendo announced they were going 3rd party and the very same games were being released on multiple platforms people would be going crazy thinking about zelda, or mario on there PS3/360 next gen etc.

 

[Supermanisdead]

No, this argument is always so stupid. Nintendo has beloved franchises that they don't randomly change up completely every installment. Sales, critical acclaim, public acceptance are all through the roof. When Mario Kart Wii is sitting at 32 million copies, is it any wonder why Mario Kart 7 is familiar?

They are not trapped by legacy, they are great because of it.

 

[teeny]

SS changed a lot of things but they were regressions. Heavily segmented world, an overworld with nothing in it, a single town. Skyward Sword is so awful I'm not going to derail the thread by explaining how its one of the worst Nintendo games of all time.

This is something I can get behind, as a Zelda fan.

 

[big youth]

I like the series, but most Zelda games do feel samey. Adding a couple of bullet point features doesn't change the overall structural similarities between the games.

you can't be serious

Majora's Mask is unique not just amongst Zelda games, but all games. and that's true to this day

The same could be said for Wind Waker. I shouldn't need to point out how different the graphics and gameplay were. not just being at sea but also taking the emphasis off dungeons.

and where do I start with Skyward Sword? motion combat made button combat feel archaic, stamina created a constant game within the game, with risk/reward scenarios being presented at all times, more emphasis on story, and the world was small and dense.

 

[meta4]

Exactly. They need to do stuff like this again. Preferably inhouse..

I don't think they know how. That's something that is completely out of their element and philosophy. They'd have to do a situation where they hired someone else to do it like Silicon Knights and Eternal Darkness.

Yeah. I think they need to do stuff like this more often. Start building up talent within their studios to deliver these kind of games. Not sure why they are shunning or shying away from investing in this. A dark survival game, stealth game etc... so many genre they are just not even trying to touch.

and don't forget, only corridor, no puzzle, poor boss like Halo or Gear of War. Oh and cinematic to make you forget you not almost nothing in those game.

What is your point exactly?

 

[Captain Smoker]

They are not massively different but they try new thing and there's hit and miss. I mean they don't always make the same thing like many people seem to think.

Yes.


Is there another series that has that much changes? Name me one.

Most publishers wouldn't have the courage to make something like Wind Waker out of their series, not in 100 years.

 

[Roman]

SS changed a lot of things but they were regressions. Heavily segmented world, an overworld with nothing in it, a single town. Skyward Sword is so awful I'm not going to derail the thread by explaining how its one of the worst Nintendo games of all time.

They clumsily tried adding a "crafting" system and collecting materials, the overworld features a lot more puzzles now and the time shifting stones in the desert are a really interesting, novel mechanic.

I don't find myself on this side of the debate often because I also really dislike SS, but they did attempt to change it up.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

You're not confusing blood and tits with mature, are YOU?

A lone bounty hunter is dropped into the ruins of a civilization that was exterminated through a biological genocide, discovering the sad history and the warnings of an ever-advancing technological capacity and the threat it has on lifeforms. She alone can exterminate the threat, but not until the very evil she is trying to vanquish corrupts her own body, slowly turning her into the evil she has vowed to fight.

Seriously, either Derrick has never played or seen Metroid, or he is just a troll.

maybe this is more of what he wants

 

[kinggroin]

My head hurts from all this Nintendo shit lately, but I will say, I'd love for them to establish some new IPs.

 

[onilink88]

Fuck almighty. What's with these profoundly stupid articles? What's worse is that you have the carnival of stupid just waiting to pounce and raise half-baked criticisms, and when they get called on it, the goalposts start moving. Oh, and I see we have idiotic generalizations and claims of Nintendo fans being "sensitive" when they refute the (not arguably) stupid article.

 

[ffdgh]

Honestly, I think the biggest reason people are annoyed is because they know that Nintendo's capable of more interesting stuff than another Mario Kart. CoD doesn't get as much shit because nobody expects Activision to churn out anything more interesting than that. Arguably, they're not even capable of it. Nintendo's track record is different -- they've put out enough crazy good, innovative games over the years that it's downright disappointing when they're wasting their resources on some weak shit for your grandparents.

Yeah they can clearly do better but that some strong hyperbole.

 

[Zarovitch]

I'm a massive Zelda fan, and when the formula is done right (TP, Ocarina) I'm in heaven. But that image posted is a load of bullshit made by somebody who's angry at people for being mean to his favourite company.

Yeah ok, i admit that i like the last Zelda, but it didnt give me the feeling i'm waiting for a Zelda game. But i can't explain what i want, one thinl is sure not a Skyrim with a Zelda theme over it.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I'm a massive Zelda fan, and when the formula is done right (TP, Ocarina) I'm in heaven. But that image posted is a load of bullshit made by somebody who's angry at people for being mean to his favourite company.

i find it funny that one your favorite Zelda games is the one that gets the most complaints for being too similar to the others and doing nothing to alter the formula.

 

[Captain Smoker]

I'm a massive Zelda fan, and when the formula is done right (TP, Ocarina) I'm in heaven. But that image posted is a load of bullshit made by somebody who's angry at people for being mean to his favourite company.

I'm not angry, this is my point of view.

 

[DjRoomba]

Is the author trapped by his enormous weight from leaving his mothers basement?

 

[Aquamarine]

Exactly. They need to do stuff like this again. Preferably inhouse..




Yeah. I think they need to do stuff like this more often. Start building up talent within their studios to deliver these kind of games. Not sure why they are shunning or shying away from investing in this. A dark survival game, stealth game etc... so many genre they are just not even trying to touch.

They already are...if you haven't noticed, Nintendo has funded (co-developed?) the last two Fatal Frame games and Fatal Frame's spiritual successor Spirit Camera.

 

[KingFire]

Unless you can show the same reviewer having double standards these kind of comments are useless.

Uncharted 3 got 9.0.

btw, Liszt is awesome.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

They clumsily tried adding a "crafting" system and collecting materials, the overworld features a lot more puzzles now and the time shifting stones in the desert are a really interesting, novel mechanic.

I don't find myself on this side of the debate often because I also really dislike SS, but they did attempt to change it up.

The thing I liked about Skyward Sword was the "path" to dungeons being much more constructed, and I'll give them credit for that. I don't think it's really a big enough change to say the game felt brand new, but it was one of the few good things in the game. The desert section especially.

 

[Supermanisdead]

You're not confusing blood and tits with mature, are YOU?

A lone bounty hunter is dropped into the ruins of a civilization that was exterminated through a biological genocide, discovering the sad history and the warnings of an ever-advancing technological capacity and the threat it has on lifeforms. She alone can exterminate the threat, but not until the very evil she is trying to vanquish corrupts her own body, slowly turning her into the evil she has vowed to fight.

Seriously, either Derrick has never played or seen Metroid, or he is just a troll.

But she's not a bald juiced marine on 360/PC/PS3!

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Uncharted 3 got 9.0.

btw, Liszt is awesome.

of course, it also says "great pacing"

 

[qizah]

I'm also wondering Gamespot if Nintendo is trapped in their Legacy or trying to explore new IPs,
Say what how about asking the president himself,
Say Iwata-San what are your views on Legacy established IPs and creating new ones.

I haven't read that before. What he said is exactly what I was arguing against McShea in my original post.

 

[chubigans]

Jeez, these Nintendo threads sure get toxic quick. Lots of angry finger pointing and "double standards" callouts is getting pretty old.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

I swear nintendo get so much shit every console launch and thereafter.

 

[Red Blaster]

Nintendoland is actually a pretty amazing game.

nah not really

Mario Chase was the only thing that was actually interesting

 

[redmetal86]

The lone Project H.A.M.M.E.R. fan cries a solitary tear.

damnit! i wanted to see what would become of this game. i hope it and cosmic walker are brought back from the dead.

wishful thinking.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I'm not angry, this is my point of view.

It's overly defensive to pretend Zelda has major, fundamental changes each game. It's disingenuous and forced. You can't possibly believe the Twilight Realm in TP is noteworthy enough to list as an example of major change.

 

[metalslimer]

People are seriously trying to argue Metroid isn't dark? There were mangled dead corpses in Metroid Prime 2.

Jeez, these Nintendo threads sure get toxic quick. Lots of angry finger pointing and "double standards" callouts is getting pretty old.

It would be nice if arguments could actually be had between people who actually give two shits about the company either way.

 

[MormaPope]

Jeez, these Nintendo threads sure get toxic quick. Lots of angry finger pointing and "double standards" callouts is getting pretty old.

The last couple of pages have been dreadful.

 

[VariantX]

How is this thread still going?

Its going because its not a list of games that they want to play, so they may as well not exist.

 

[Captain Smoker]

It's overly defensive to pretend Zelda has major, fundamental changes each game. It's disingenuous and forced. You can't possibly believe the Twilight Realm in TP is noteworthy enough to list as an example of major change.

Whatever, feel free to think what you wan't.

 

[Oppo]

People are seriously trying to argue Metroid isn't dark? There were mangled dead corpses in Metroid Prime 2.

also I hear that beyblades are back, mostly metal, more dangerous than ever

 

[evangd007]

Bullshit standards and anti-Nintendo, dare I say anti-japan agenda? What was the deal with all the western media acting like Japanese games suck the last few years? They are full of hivemind bullshit

Nintendo is the only platform holder that treats the Japanese developers with any respect nowadays. I expect them to band together to make the Wii U a J-game machine, and being a Wii U and gaming PC owner I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm tired of the marginalization of Japanese developers and publishers by the platform holders and Western gaming media. It not only causes games that deserve more coverage to not get it, but also causes the Japanese publishers to make awful game design and business decisions.

Form working relationships with notable western studios to create new IPs published by Nintendo. They're doing that in Japan fairly well, but to me there's nothing coming from them I see as being a system seller other than the usual Zelda/Mario.

Just so my hypocrisy is clear here; I'm almost certainly buying a Wii U for Wind Waker. I don't dislike Nintendo games at all. I just want more from them.

Nintendo's stock is so low among Western developers that they could go to LightBox Interactive with an offer of $20 million to do whatever they wanted and the response would likely be, "Nah, we'd rather make iOS games than Nintendo games."

I removed the entirely irrelevant ones. Bolded the actually relevant ones (continuing franchises or high quality).

You bolded Chibi-Robo and Disaster but not the Wii series, Art Style series, or The Wonderful 101 (P-100)? Please define relevant with more clarity.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

SS changed a lot of things but they were regressions. Heavily segmented world, an overworld with nothing in it, a single town. Skyward Sword is so awful I'm not going to derail the thread by explaining how its one of the worst Nintendo games of all time.

SS improved the controls of a Zelda game, the pacing(although still not great) makes TP look like an stodgy mess & it continued improving dungeon settings following the good start that was the "Yeti" dungeon from TP & had better boss design(not to mention the superior artstyle), i.e it got the important stuff right(I assume the segmented world was due to hardware constraints).

 

[onilink88]

It's overly defensive to pretend Zelda has major, fundamental changes each game. It's disingenuous and forced. You can't possibly believe the Twilight Realm in TP is noteworthy enough to list as an example of major change.

There is no fundamental change in each Zelda. But there is enough change/improvement outside of those fundamentals between each iteration. The argument that "Zelda doesn't change" is simply untrue.

 

[jmls1121]

Seems like the new game announcements struck a nerv with some people here as well . Lol

Why would more games announced from nintendo be a bad thing?

The same issue since the Nintendo 64.

Nintendo consistently is the best game developer in the world, but the third-parties put their games on other platforms for the most part.

Many gamers who do not have the income to buy 2 consoles and choose the platform with the third-parties. They still believe they made the right choice, but it kills them that they are unable to play the best games out there.

This has been the conflict within the gamer community since 1995. I still remember the meltdown amongs the Sony fans when the first screenshots of Ocarina of Time appeared.

 

[Dawg]

sorry about the list... it's just a copy paste.


Nintendo Gamecube
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
GiFTPiA
Donkey Konga
Battalion Wars
Geist
Chibi-Robo!
Odama

Nintendo Wii
Art Style
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
Wii Play
Endless Ocean
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Captain Rainbow
Common sense of people power TV
Tact of Magic
FlingSmash
Dynamic Slash
And-Kensaku
Pandora's Tower
Kiki Trick
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Last Story

Wii-Ware
Bonsai Barber
Rock N’ Roll Climber
PictureBook Games: Pop-Up Pursuit
You, Me and the Cubes
Eco Shooter: Plant 530
Snowpack Park
ThruSpace
Line Attack Heroes
Fluidity

Wii-U
P-100
Panorama View
Nintendo Land

Game Boy Advance
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
Napoleon
Kuririn
Horse Racing Creating Derby
Stafy
Tomato Adventure
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
Drill Dozer
Rhythm Tengoku
bit Generations

Nintendo DS
Polarium
Nintendogs
Jump Super Stars
Electroplankton
Big Brain Academy
Brain Age
Clubhouse Games
Magnetica
Elite Beat Agents
Hotel Dusk: Room 215
Trace Memory
Master of Illusion
Slide Adventure MAGKID
Soma Bringer
Jam with the Band
Fossil Fighters
Style Savvy
Glory of Heracles
Friend Collection
Walk with me! Do you know your walking routine?
Cooking Guide: Can't Decide What To Eat?

Dsi
Aura Aura Climber
Art Academy
Kappa Trail
Pinball Pulse: The Ancient Beckons

Nintendo 3ds
Steel Diver

3DS Ware
Freakyforms: Your Creations, Alive!
Pushmo
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword
Dillon's Rolling Western
Ketzal's Corridors


sauce:
http://kyoto-report.wikidot.com/forum/t-469495

There are great IP's in that list, but stuff like "FlingSmash" should be excluded imo. That's like... a typical "new IP" that is added to the list for the sake of having a longer list.

There's even stuff in there like And-Kensaku that I have never heard of.

 

[Mael]

They already are...if you haven't noticed, Nintendo has funded (co-developed?) the last two Fatal Frame games and Fatal Frame's spiritual successor Spirit Camera.

Don't remind me of that awful Spirit Camera game.

And seriously a fan whose fav Zelda is TP is arguing that they need to change things up when TP really is aLttP in 3D 2.0?

"They should step out of their comfort zone and do new stuffs like the Simpsons did!"

 

[darkistheway]

What do people want Nintendo to do? Ignore its money-makers? Focus on new things? In an industry driven by sequels. OK!

Nintendo does a lot of innovating, tries a lot of new things (one time they made motion controls the centerpiece of entire console generation but it only sold 96 million) but they tend to view things on a evolutionary scale rather than a disruptive, "revolutionary" one.

I really like Nintendo and their games but I don't expect them or any other company to invest millions chasing the new thing; it's just not the way of the world.

 

[KingFire]

of course, it also says "great pacing"

I feel the Tom MC Shea shit needs to be called out.

There are basically no standards for reviewing video games. You like the game? slap a 9.0 or 9.5 on it and call it a day; you don't like the game? slap 7.5 on it citing some redicilous flaws and then write an article criticizing the whole company about it.

 

[Frodo]

Nintendo does't release any game from a established franchise: "We don't want this shiet, where is mah Zeldas?"

Nintendo releases new games from established franchises: "Nintendo is no creative. We want new IPs" (While playing CoD)

Nintendo cannot win confirmed.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

SS improved the controls of a Zelda game, the pacing(although still not great) makes TP look like an stodgy mess & it continued improving dungeon settings following the good start that was the "Yeti" dungeon from TP & had better boss design(not to mention the superior artstyle), i.e it got the important stuff right(I assume the segmented world was due to hardware constraints).

really? Twilight Princess at least got its baggage out of the way in the beginning. Skyward Sword dumps it in the middle of the game.

 

[Aquamarine]

Nintendo is the only platform holder that treats the Japanese developers with any respect nowadays. I expect them to band together to make the Wii U a J-game machine, and being a Wii U and gaming PC owner I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm tired of the marginalization of Japanese developers and publishers by the platform holders and Western gaming media. It not only causes games that deserve more coverage to not get it, but also causes the Japanese publishers to make awful game design and business decisions.

This sounds a little too much like a persecution complex. Different markets and development schedules and budgets and talent define the uniqueness of Japanese games.

 

[Laguna]

Just for fun:

Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo 2 (1999, PSOne)
Gran Turismo 2 Platinum (2000, PSOne)
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (2001, PS2, )
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec Platinum (2001, PS2)
Gran Turismo Concept 2001 Tokyo (2001, PS2)
Gran Turismo Concept 2002 Tokyo-Geneva (2002, PS2)
Gran Turismo Concept 2002 Tokyo-Geneva Platinum (2003, PS2)
Gran Turismo Concept 2002 Tokyo-Seoul (2002, PS2)
Gran Turismo 4: Prologue (2004, PS2)
Gran Turismo 4: Prius Edition (2004, PS2)
Gran Turismo 4: BMW 1 Series Virtual Drive Dealership (2004, PS2)
Gran Turismo 4 (2005, PS2)
Gran Turismo 4: Platinum (2005/2006, PS2)
Gran Turismo 4 Online Test Version (2006, Japan, USA, PS2)
Gran Turismo HD Concept
Gran Turismo 5: Prologue: Spec-I
Gran Turismo 5: Prologue: Spec-II
Gran Turismo 5: Prologue Platinum
Gran Turismo (2009, PSP)
Gran Turismo Collector's Edition (Oktober 2009, PSP)
Gran Turismo 5 (24. November 2010, PS3)
Gran Turismo 5 Collector's Edition (24. November 2010, PS3)
Gran Turismo 5 Signature-Edition (24. November 2010, PS3)
Gran Turismo 5 Platinum (14. Oktober 2011, PS3)
Gran Turismo 5 XL Edition (USA: 17. Januar 2012, PS3)
Gran Turismo 5 Academy Edition (26 September 2012, PS3)



I doubt he ever complained about it.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

SS improved the controls of a Zelda game, the pacing(although still not great) makes TP look like an stodgy mess & it continued improving dungeon settings following the good start that was the "Yeti" dungeon from TP & had better boss design(not to mention the superior artstyle), i.e it got the important stuff right(I assume the segmented world was due to hardware constraints).

I'd like to respond to you but I'd spew hatred at SS for 30 minutes and everyone will be bored. We'll have to agree to differ.

 

[lamaroo]

Aside from NSMB, Nintendo actually shows more restraint with their IPs than most companies. 1 title per generation, they've just been around so long they add up.