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GameSpot: Is Nintendo Trapped by Legacy?

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outunderthestars said:
I watched that video and was quite impressed with how frank and honest he was about discussing the difficulties they are experiencing. It was enough to get me on board for the Wii U. :)
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Yeah, Iwata's frankness is quite refreshing, and in such contrast with Reggie's nonstop spewing of marketing bullspeak. It's basically impossible to trust anything that comes out of that guy's mouth, he's so disingenuous when he talks.
 
SolidSnakex said:
He listed Gran Turismo, which has a grand total of 6 games in 15 years. It also has releases that were essentially expansions before they were possible on consoles, but most of the titles that he listed on the GT list were Greatest Hits editions and demos.
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I've only come into this thread recently, so I haven't seen every list this guy posted. Even in the GoW one he posted three collections that I didn't count. Much like those expansions shouldn't.

Reguardless the point still stands. Every company has IPs that they keep using because they sell, and Sony's franchises typically get milked far more then Nintendos since the PS2 era.
 
onilink88 said:
You acknowledge the anecdotal nature of your evidence, yet you continue with this frustrating cluelessness when it is pointed out to you in what capacity and in which manner KI: U has received its marketing and the success that stemmed from from that push. I can't say anything any further if you are unable to grasp the facts of the matter. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I think I've been pretty clear throughout that my stance is based on my not having seen sufficient advertisement myself. Especially in comparison to the advertisements I've seen for other games, whether they were Nintendo or other Publishers/Developers. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong but it doesn't change that I didn't see it. I don't actively avoid gaming advertisement so it's hard for me to say, "You know what, you're right. There's all this stuff that was out there" when I missed it.
 
Derrick01 said:
See? Exactly what I was talking about in that last comment. I said major and what did I get? Wii _____ and Steel Diver.

This is not what people want from Nintendo when they beg for new IPs.



Because whatevs? I singled it out because it's barely a fucking game! 75 year olds can play it just as well as a 20 year old.
Click to expand...

Some of the new IPs

Nintendo Gamecube
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
GiFTPiA
Donkey Konga
Battalion Wars
Geist
Chibi-Robo!
Odama

Nintendo Wii
Art Style
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
Wii Play
Endless Ocean
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Captain Rainbow
Common sense of people power TV
Tact of Magic
FlingSmash
Dynamic Slash
And-Kensaku
Pandora's Tower
Kiki Trick
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Last Story

Wii-Ware
Bonsai Barber
Rock N’ Roll Climber
PictureBook Games: Pop-Up Pursuit
You, Me and the Cubes
Eco Shooter: Plant 530
Snowpack Park
ThruSpace
Line Attack Heroes
Fluidity

Wii-U
P-100
Panorama View
Nintendo Land

Game Boy Advance
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
Napoleon
Kuririn
Horse Racing Creating Derby
Stafy
Tomato Adventure
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
Drill Dozer
Rhythm Tengoku
bit Generations

Nintendo DS
Polarium
Nintendogs
Jump Super Stars
Electroplankton
Big Brain Academy
Brain Age
Clubhouse Games
Magnetica
Elite Beat Agents
Hotel Dusk: Room 215
Trace Memory
Master of Illusion
Slide Adventure MAGKID
Soma Bringer
Jam with the Band
Fossil Fighters
Style Savvy
Glory of Heracles
Friend Collection
Walk with me! Do you know your walking routine?
Cooking Guide: Can't Decide What To Eat?

Dsi
Aura Aura Climber
Art Academy
Kappa Trail
Pinball Pulse: The Ancient Beckons

Nintendo 3ds
Steel Diver

3DS Ware
Freakyforms: Your Creations, Alive!
Pushmo
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword
Dillon's Rolling Western
Ketzal's Corridors
 
Derrick01 said:
See? Exactly what I was talking about in that last comment. I said major and what did I get? Wii _____ and Steel Diver.

This is not what people want from Nintendo when they beg for new IPs.



Because whatevs? I singled it out because it's barely a fucking game! 75 year olds can play it just as well as a 20 year old.
Click to expand...

XD yea anything with wii in front is kind of... Pointless. That's like bringing up xbox's dozens of avatar _____ games lol
 
Zen_Arcade said:
And most of them have stuck just as well as most of those Sony IPs.

I don't think people understand that those lists aren't to shit on Sony for making multiple sequels, its to shit on the double standard that Nintendo should stop doing the same thing over and over while the rest of the industry does the same things. Both companies have released new IPs this Gen, and most those IPs didn't catch on for either company.
Click to expand...

Yep. New IPs, bluntly, don't sell. Even with the right marketing, it's tough to get the average joe to pick up a title he's never heard of. Wonderful 101? No idea. Kid Icarus? Wasn't that an old game? But with things like Mario and Zelda, you communicate to Joe instantly that the game is quality and he has a general gist of what it entails.

The majority of gamers are not like us. They don't follow gaming websites or watch Nintendo directs. They know what Nintendo games are through cultural osmosis primarily and possibly past experience. Nintendo has an easier sale with a familiar IP than with a brand new one. If Paper Mario: Sticker Star had been a new IP (which may have been better for people's expectations) it wouldn't have sold as much.

The question we're asking is, does that matter? To Nintendo as a corporation, certainly. Especially in this transition stage between consoles and handhelds. So right now, they aren't taking extensive risks, because it simply doesn't pay.
 
den said:
so you expected this based on their comments regarding bethesda and not something more westernized as their comments had suggested.

p.s X does not look even slightly remotely similar to anything someone could construe from the idea surrounding the fallout series.
Click to expand...

Yes I did. This is pretty much what I expected a (spiritual) sequel to Xenoblade to look like. Not necessarily the mecha, though.

Do you disagree that FExSMT was less predictable than X?
 
Derrick01 said:
See? Exactly what I was talking about in that last comment. I said major and what did I get? Wii _____ and Steel Diver.

This is not what people want from Nintendo when they beg for new IPs.



Because whatevs? I singled it out because it's barely a fucking game! 75 year olds can play it just as well as a 20 year old.
Click to expand...

Its one of the greatest system sellers of all time. You are gonna bury yourself if you use simplicity as an argument against it.
 
Derrick01 said:
Because whatevs? I singled it out because it's barely a fucking game! 75 year olds can play it just as well as a 20 year old.
Click to expand...
This a stupid elitist comment.

Its still a game. Its still a new IP. A lot of people thought it was fun. You don't get to discount it just because it wasn't something you enjoyed or "wanted from Nintendo".
 
HK-47 said:
Its one of the greatest system sellers of all time.
Click to expand...

Again, so fucking what? It has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. We're not talking about sales at all.

Why do Nintendo fans constantly miss the point, only to ask what people mean when they want new IPs? I explained it pretty simply and I'm still getting confused stares.
 
zruben said:
sorry about the list... it's just a copy paste.


Nintendo Gamecube
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
GiFTPiA
Donkey Konga
Battalion Wars
Geist
Chibi-Robo!
Odama

Nintendo Wii
Art Style
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
Wii Play
Endless Ocean
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Captain Rainbow
Common sense of people power TV
Tact of Magic
FlingSmash
Dynamic Slash
And-Kensaku
Pandora's Tower
Kiki Trick
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Last Story

Wii-Ware
Bonsai Barber
Rock N’ Roll Climber
PictureBook Games: Pop-Up Pursuit
You, Me and the Cubes
Eco Shooter: Plant 530
Snowpack Park
ThruSpace
Line Attack Heroes
Fluidity

Wii-U
P-100
Panorama View
Nintendo Land

Game Boy Advance
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
Napoleon
Kuririn
Horse Racing Creating Derby
Stafy
Tomato Adventure
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
Drill Dozer
Rhythm Tengoku
bit Generations

Nintendo DS
Polarium
Nintendogs
Jump Super Stars
Electroplankton
Big Brain Academy
Brain Age
Clubhouse Games
Magnetica
Elite Beat Agents
Hotel Dusk: Room 215
Trace Memory
Master of Illusion
Slide Adventure MAGKID
Soma Bringer
Jam with the Band
Fossil Fighters
Style Savvy
Glory of Heracles
Friend Collection
Walk with me! Do you know your walking routine?
Cooking Guide: Can't Decide What To Eat?

Dsi
Aura Aura Climber
Art Academy
Kappa Trail
Pinball Pulse: The Ancient Beckons

Nintendo 3ds
Steel Diver

3DS Ware
Freakyforms: Your Creations, Alive!
Pushmo
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword
Dillon's Rolling Western
Ketzal's Corridors


sauce:
http://kyoto-report.wikidot.com/forum/t-469495
Click to expand...

Can we just make a thread out of this list? The "Nintendo doesn't make new IPs" thing is getting really friggin annoying.
 
I can never understand some of the criticism Nintendo receives on this matter. These few points always baffles me:

1) When you make successful games, people generally do tend to want to see another entry. GASP! If Nintendo have done a better job than just about any other publisher at keeping their franchises from getting too stale. The fact that they still can still can make popular entries for franchises that are as old as many of today's gamers is a testament to doing something right, not wrong.

2) According to these types of articles, they always seem to stop just a word short of suggesting that all Nintendo have every done is make sequels. Never do the thought arise; Would a company have this many franchises to support if all it was doing was making sequels in the first place? Clearly, it's because they develop new successful IPs that make it possible for them to support them later down the line.

3) It's fine for other consoles to see numerous entries of a franchise on the same platform. Oh yeah, these media outlets are all over it like vultures on a carcase, but God forbid Nintendo give fans a new entry to a game every few years or so. Despite all the accusations, if you actually compare the number of per-console entries of various Nintendo games to those of other publishers, it's sometimes surprising how long the wait is between sequels.

4) Of course, this entire matter can be blown out of proportion, because when you consider how many more IPs Nintendo possess that fans have been wanting for years - decades even - you get the impression that Nintendo is way too conservative at times. Where's our new Mother entry? Excite bike? StarFox? Wave Race? 1080 snowboarding? F-zero? We shouldn't have to wait a decade for them to throw us a bone like the recent Kid Icarus. Yeah, it's real easy to blow things out of proportion.


What can be done with Mario Kart that we haven't seen before? Why should we trust Aonuma's claim that he's going to reinvent Zelda when he has failed to do so in every attempt thus far? Does a new Smash Bros. have much appeal beyond the requisite roster update?
Click to expand...

What can be done with Halo that we haven't seen before? Why should we trust IW's claim that they're going to reinvent Call of Duty when they have failed to do so in every attempt thus far? Does a new Gran Turismo have much appeal beyond the requisite roster update?

No offense to any fans of said games... My point is that these things can be said about the very same games these journalists will no doubt gloat over, upon their next inevitable iterations.
 
Derrick01 said:
See? Exactly what I was talking about in that last comment. I said major and what did I get? Wii _____ and Steel Diver.

This is not what people want from Nintendo when they beg for new IPs.



Because whatevs? I singled it out because it's barely a fucking game! 75 year olds can play it just as well as a 20 year old.
Click to expand...

Why are you leaving Xenoblade out of the "big" games you talk about. No, seriously Derrick, why are you leaving it out?
Is a big ass RPG as they ever get, with hundreds of hour of content and amazing big setpieces.
Probably costed much less than FFXIII, Mass Effect 3, etc... but is a bigger RPG than those, and it was a new Nintendo IP.
 
Makonero said:
Yep. New IPs, bluntly, don't sell. Even with the right marketing, it's tough to get the average joe to pick up a title he's never heard of. Wonderful 101? No idea. Kid Icarus? Wasn't that an old game? But with things like Mario and Zelda, you communicate to Joe instantly that the game is quality and he has a general gist of what it entails.

The majority of gamers are not like us. They don't follow gaming websites or watch Nintendo directs. They know what Nintendo games are through cultural osmosis primarily and possibly past experience. Nintendo has an easier sale with a familiar IP than with a brand new one. If Paper Mario: Sticker Star had been a new IP (which may have been better for people's expectations) it wouldn't have sold as much.

The question we're asking is, does that matter? To Nintendo as a corporation, certainly. Especially in this transition stage between consoles and handhelds. So right now, they aren't taking extensive risks, because it simply doesn't pay.
Click to expand...


Isn't the Launch Window of a New Console considered the best time to put out new IPs? Because people are more likely to consume it simply because there's not a lot of choice? Or am I mistaken?
 
Derrick01 said:
Again, so fucking what? It has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. We're not talking about sales at all.
Click to expand...

The reason it sold systems was because it was fucking brilliant as a game. It showcased the Wii in a way any demographic could appreciate.
 
Opinions aren't going to change about Nintendo until they release a AAA "realistic" game or games of the either the shooter or action genres, preferably of the M rating. That's it. That's all that's really being said. Sorry to be cynical, but that's all I'm seeing from these discussions.
 
SpacePirate Ridley said:
Why are you leaving Xenoblade out of the "big" games you talk about. No, seriously Derrick, why are you leaving it out?
Is a big ass RPG as they ever get, with hundreds of hour of content and amazing big setpieces.
Probably costed much less than FFXIII, Mass Effect 3, etc... but is a bigger RPG than those, and it was a new IP.
Click to expand...

I didn't leave it out. It's a page or two back now but when I said at least 5 to 0 new IPs I edited the comment and included Xenoblade.
 
The fun goes on

Twisted Metal
Twisted Metal 2
Twisted Metal III
Twisted Metal 4
Twisted Metal: Black
Twisted Metal: Head-On
Twisted Metal: Head-On: Extra Twisted
Twisted Metal (2012)
Twisted Metal: Black Online
Twisted Metal: Apocalypse
Twisted Metal: Revolution
 
you name Animal Crossing and Pikman but what I am saying a NEW IP that is AAA big.
not some niche thing. Something big like say uh how Super Mario Bros. was big?
 
Hematocryal said:
It's a game but how much work went into creating wii sport, wii this, and wii that? It's all like the same thing. They are stand alone mini-games NOT full fledged gaming experiences.
Click to expand...

I think you are confused. The Wii games are a collection of minigames, not stand alone minigames.
 
DashReindeer said:
Yeah, Iwata's frankness is quite refreshing, and in such contrast with Reggie's nonstop spewing of marketing bullspeak. It's basically impossible to trust anything that comes out of that guy's mouth, he's so disingenuous when he talks.
Click to expand...

You and I see eye to eye on the matter.

SharkHighFive.jpeg
 
Jest Chillin said:
I think I've been pretty clear throughout that my stance is based on my not having seen sufficient advertisement myself. Especially in comparison to the advertisements I've seen for other games, whether they were Nintendo or other Publishers/Developers. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong but it doesn't change that I didn't see it. I don't actively avoid gaming advertisement so it's hard for me to say, "You know what, you're right. There's all this stuff that was out there" when I missed it.
Click to expand...

You are indubitably wrong and have only managed to back your arguments with weak-at-best anecdotes, so I suggest you stop here.
 
casablanca said:
Actually no because gamspot and gaf are populated by gamers.
And the article in the OP is targeting gamers.
Click to expand...
And the notion that gamers are capable of enjoying those games is inconceivable? First it was said that Nintendo makes no new IPs, but when titles are named, suddenly, they have to be titles that "gamers" care about.
 
udivision said:
Opinions aren't going to change about Nintendo until they release a AAA "realistic" game or games of the either the shooter or action genres, preferably of the M rating. That's it. That's all that's really being said.
Click to expand...

YES!!! I hate all their kiddy games, kudos to the yah-hoos that do, and lett'm have more of that candy, BUT GIVE ME A GAME WITH SOME BITE TO IT.
 
Derrick01 said:
Again, so fucking what? It has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. We're not talking about sales at all.
Click to expand...

Ok fine, let's not talk about sales. Wii Sports was some of the best fun I've had with friends gaming.


So, because a 75 year old can play it, it doesn't count?

Or because it's not in the same vein as Zelda with a new cast of characters?
 
Derrick01 said:
See? Exactly what I was talking about in that last comment. I said major and what did I get? Wii _____ and Steel Diver.

This is not what people want from Nintendo when they beg for new IPs.



Because whatevs? I singled it out because it's barely a fucking game! 75 year olds can play it just as well as a 20 year old.
Click to expand...
Keep on moving those goal posts. The topic was if Nintendo was trapped by its legacy. People have since posted lots of new and revived ips they have done. Then you spouted they hadnt launched one major new ip this/last gen

I agree with people who say that they want the next Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Star Fox/ Pikmin from Nintendo but it ignores the games theyve done in between. Kid icarus for example just received a massive push and was marketed as the next major core Nintendo ip/mascot.
 
Roman said:
Yes I did. This is pretty much what I expected a (spiritual) sequel to Xenoblade to look like. Not necessarily the mecha, though.

Do you disagree that FExSMT was less predictable than X?
Click to expand...

Firstly, please don't twist my words as i never said anything regarding fire emblem X shin megami.
However, i'm suprised you expected a spiritual successor to xenoblade despite it being stated that monolith soft's new game would be a new IP.
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/09/13/xenoblade-team-creating-new-game-for-wii-u/

There was even a thread about it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=491257
 
gutter_trash said:
you name Animal Crossing and Pikman but what I am saying a NEW IP that is AAA big.
not some niche thing. Something big like say uh how Super Mario Bros. was big?
Click to expand...

If thats your bar then nothing created this gen except things like Wii Fit and Nintendogs match it. Also Animal Crossing is an extremely large ip and Pikmin is million seller level. Maybe you arent as informed as you think.
 
Silent_Ocarina said:
And the notion that gamers are capable of enjoying those games is inconceivable? First it was said that Nintendo makes no new IPs, but when titles are named, suddenly, they have to be titles that "gamers" care about.
Click to expand...

Goalpost-moving is the purveying theme of such threads. You must be new to these! :D
 
slit said:
Ok fine, let's not talk about sales. Wii Sports was some of the best fun I've had with friends gaming.


So, because a 75 year old can play it, it doesn't count?

Or because it's not in the same vein as Zelda with a new cast of characters?
Click to expand...

I pretty clearly stated major IPs and went even further as saying stuff on mario and zelda's budget. That is what people want from Nintendo, not Wii sports which is a joke of a game. I don't care if it sold 800 million copies to every person who never touched a game before in their lives, we're not talking about sales.
 
Jest Chillin said:
Isn't the Launch Window of a New Console considered the best time to put out new IPs? Because people are more likely to consume it simply because there's not a lot of choice? Or am I mistaken?
Click to expand...

Supposed to be, yes. Damned difficult when your new console isn't a powerhouse or flying off the shelves. Even with the Wii doing so successfully, where is Zack and Wiki 2? It's safer for Nintendo to release a 2D Mario because it sells. And it sells through the roof, normally. Nintendo may not be in any big trouble right now, but they are not doing well. Not as well as they did the last time they did this, which is why we're seeing them play it safe.

I'd love new IPs and sequels to games like Mother and F-Zero. I also understand that until Nintendo is confident that the system sellers are out there, they will continue to be conservative. We got Punch-Out!! last gen, remember? And it rocked. And a Wario sidescroller. And DKC Returns.

Now we just need Mother Reborn and I'll be happy.
 
I kind of feel like Zelda and Mario change more from game to game than Uncharted and Halo do, to name two big examples. I definitely want Nintendo to innovate on a software level rather than just hardware, but it's a bit unfair to single them out.
 
HK-47 said:
I think you are confused. The Wii games are a collection of minigames, not stand alone minigames.
Click to expand...

Wii whatever has a bunch of mini games with in the disc(each mini game unrelated to the other with no connecting story line "stand alone". Then there's the games with wii(_____) that you buy separately and those are REALLY stand alone. I have a collection of movies, doesn't mean they are all related lol.
 
With this thread: Screen Digest: "Nintendo behind the next gen curve; isolated from market" It might be a bit too much Nintendoom, even for GAF.
 
The Albatross said:
Unless you're admitting by accident that Mario Kart and CoD should be considered similarly. I'd agree with that.
Click to expand...

Sorry, just started the thread so this has probably been said, but seriously?? There a difference between one game a year and one a generation.

Also a difference between a series who'a gameplay has devolved every iteration to pretty much any Nintendo game.

I'm an ex Nintendo fanboy (Wii U will be the first Ninty console I wont own - kids are here can only afford one) but I don't think I'm out of line in saying that Nintendo are unrivalled in their ability to create innovative gameplay with old IPs.
 
onilink88 said:
Goalpost-moving is the purveying theme of such threads. You must be new to these! :D
Click to expand...
Haha, I am aware of the tactic.

Nintendo never makes new IPs!

Well, gamers don't care about those! Hardly any work went into making them! They're barely games!

And now I see we're on the subject of "mature" games now.
 
den said:
the article states that they were behind both xenoblade and xenosaga and as i remember most people anticipated a sequel to baiten kaitos after they saw the concept work posted by monolith soft. the kotaku article in no way states that it was a definite xenoblade sequel but simply gave insite as to what their previous games were.




so you expected this based on their comments regarding bethesda and not something more westernized as their comments had suggested.

p.s X does not look even slightly remotely similar to anything someone could construe from the idea surrounding the fallout series.
Click to expand...

We knew monolithsoft had something in the works for wiiU. We had abso-fucking-lutley no clue another FE game was in the wings let alone a SMT crossover. Do you get it now? or are you being purposely thick?
 
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