VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...

Yeah, I seem to remember him campaigning for PS3 supremacy a lot back in 2008/09. Or even nowadays he posts messages like this one, how he's managed to become a respected source regarding next-gen hardware eludes me.

To be fair there is nothing console war centric about that post. He is merely calling people out from going bananas over nothing. At the end of the day though if you tell Gaf stuff as a insider and your information proves true you become someone to respect in that capacity. Thuway has been right about a lot of details that he could have never come upon unless he had great inside information.
 
I wonder how memexport will be utilized on the next console.

In addition to its other capabilities Xenos has a special instruction which is presently unique to this graphics processor and may not necessarily even be available in WGF2.0 and this is the MEMEXPORT function. In simple terms the MEMEXPORT function is a method by which Xenos can push and pull vectorised data directly to and from system RAM. This becomes very useful with vertex shader programs as with the capabilities to scatter and gather to and from system RAM the graphics processor suddenly becomes a very wide processor for general purpose floating point operations. For instance, if a shader operation could be run with the results passed out to memory and then another shader can be performed on the output of the first shader with the first shader's results becoming the input to the subsequent shader.

MEMEXPORT expands the graphics pipeline further forward and in a general purpose and programmable way. For instance, one example of its operation could be to tessellate an object as well as to skin it by applying a shader to a vertex buffer, writing the results to memory as another vertex buffer, then using that buffer run a tessellation render, then run another vertex shader on that for skinning. MEMEXPORT could potentially be used to provide input to the tessellation unit itself by running a shader that calculates the tessellation factor by transforming the edges to screen space and then calculates the tessellation factor on each of the edges dependant on its screen space and feeds those results into the tessellation unit, resulting in a dynamic, screen space based tessellation routine. Other examples for its use could be to provide image based operations such as compositing, animating particles, or even operations that can alternate between the CPU and graphics processor.

With the capability to fetch from anywhere in memory, perform arbitrary ALU operations and write the results back to memory, in conjunction with the raw floating point performance of the large shader ALU array, the MEMEXPORT facility does have the capability to achieve a wide range of fairly complex and general purpose operations; basically any operation that can be mapped to a wide SIMD array can be fairly efficiently achieved and in comparison to previous graphics pipelines it is achieved in fewer cycles and with lower latencies. For instance, this is probably the first time that general purpose physics calculation would be achievable, with a reasonable degree of success, on a graphics processor and is a big step towards the graphics processor becoming much more like a vector co-processor to the CPU.

Seeing as MEMEXPORT operates over the unified shader array the capability is also available to pixel shader programs, however the data would be represented without colour or Z information which is likely to limit its usefulness.

ATI indicate that MEMEXPORT functions can still operate in parallel with both vertex fetch and filtered texture operations.

afaik, this is rarely used in 360 games today, and sounds like the data move engine is actually based around this concept.
 
Last time it worked for 360 because they had 512mb devkits that they repurposed to be the final skits.

That's why devkits for the 360 were stuck at 512mb for the longest time.

Thuway is right, any upgrades since mid 2012 is out of the picture.

What about the GPU ?
Wasn't that upgraded like 3 months before release ?
 
To be fair there is nothing console war centric about that post. He is merely calling people out from going bananas over nothing. At the end of the day though if you tell Gaf stuff as a insider and your information proves true you become someone to respect in that capacity. Thuway has been right about a lot of details that he could have never come upon unless he had great inside information.
Bashing PC gamers for not salivating over PS4 seems like a really questionable practice for me.

That I could understand, but why invest so much in r&d on the GPU, specifically ?
Assuming the rumours claiming they had such a large team at amd working on the GPU hold true, of course.
if they were going for the wii-appeal, why pick a 'weaker' GPU and have engineers customise it to make it better/ more 'powerful' ?
Why not just pick a more powerful off-the shelf one ?
I doubt it's going to be cheaper this way...
My guess would be they want to put more money upfront to design a small but fairly powerful chip that's going to cost very little to produce (per unit). I am personally not expecting anything special from it though.
 
It is pretty obvious why MS went to 8GB, because kinect functions will be part of the multi-task OS standards that will have lot of data going on, require large memory footprint.

How is that obvious? Kinect requires little RAM as it is, what evidence is there that its successor will require a substantial amount more?
 
To be fair there is nothing console war centric about that post. He is merely calling people out from going bananas over nothing. At the end of the day though if you tell Gaf stuff as a insider and your information proves true you become someone to respect in that capacity. Thuway has been right about a lot of details that he could have never come upon unless he had great inside information.

Or if he had by chance seen the sweetvar posts that have since been deleted.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45810378&postcount=157
 
Are you kidding me. The upgrade Epic asked for was $1 billion ( this in a time the division was much worse off). Doesn't matter to me I'm only speculating here and since when did you become an expert and insider at all this. Last time I remember you were far from that but it seems everybody now is hanging on your words of wisdom.

Not everyone does. Some of us have been watching all these "insiders" and are noticing all the "Well, they must have changed that" posts. They know things, or think they do, but they don't really. It's all part of the fun of dealing with info/specs that change so quickly. As long as you don't take what they're saying as gospel, you won't be disappointed.
 
Bashing PC gamers for not salivating over PS4 seems like a really questionable practice for me.

Again though they were arguing spec to spec without taking into account any of the advantages afforded by a customized closed system. Its arguing a narrow view of the expected performance based on just the components. I understand thats really all we have to go on right now but they can at least do a little read up on some of the more in-depth articles breaking the specs down.
 
Last time it worked for 360 because they had 512mb devkits that they repurposed to be the final skits.

That's why devkits for the 360 were stuck at 512mb for the longest time.

Thuway is right, any upgrades since mid 2012 is out of the picture.

but why would ms need an upgrade anyway since durango is the most powerful console?
 
Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

I don't think you can even get 8Gb GDDR5 yet, but say you could, it would probably be prohibitively expensive, so not likely. Stacked DDR3 is a possibility though as a last minute highly unlikely gotcha type change. Not sure if these consoles will make it in time for stacked ram though.
 
Many people seem to be feeling like there is something missing from the Durango specs. What if the Memory spec is wrong (on purpose possibly) and it's actually 8GB of GDDR5 opposed to DDR3?

So MS would like to sell their console for 100+ more than Sony? That worked out well with the PS3 vs the 360 early on.
 
Again though they were arguing spec to spec without taking into account any of the advantages afforded by a customized closed system. Its arguing a narrow view of the expected performance based on just the components. I understand thats really all we have to go on right now but they can at least do a little read up on some of the more in-depth articles breaking the specs down.
It's quite possible that some of them have a lot more powerful machines than PS4 is going to be, or will have by the time it launches. If they are not impressed by the specs sheet, why would someone else tell them "what is wrong with you". He seems a bit too determined to convince everyone that Orbis is going to be an incredible hardware, that's all.

How is that obvious? Kinect requires little RAM as it is, what evidence is there that its successor will require a substantial amount more?
Yeah, I'm wondering about that as well.
 
Well at least we finally got Bluray guys. Now we need Nintendo to catch up.

The world is going digital-download. Nintendo's being cheap, but ultimately it shouldnt do much harm to them.

Who said Durango will play blu ray movies?

It's going to be hard to leverage your console as the "entertainment centerpiece of the family room" if you include a bluray player and don't allow it to play movies.
 
The world is going digital-download. Nintendo's being cheap, but ultimately it shouldnt do much harm to them.

It's going to be hard to leverage your console as the "entertainment centerpiece of the family room" if you include a bluray player and don't allow it to play movies.

Downloading 50 gigabytes games sounds like fun.
 
If 4Gb of GDDR5 is not enough for a Kinect game that I wonder what the hell do they need more memory for. The data set requirements for Kinect are relatively minimal. 4Gb is a huge amount of memory for a console.

All of Kinects current processing work is done by the 360. The 360 reserves 32MB for the OS.

If MS does use 3GB for the OS, it'll be to make sure it's lightning fast all the time, and to allow for true multitasking like the WiiU allows.

Browsing YouTube guides while playing WiiU games is fucking awesome. But I assume the new Xbox will allow for even more functions given its 3GB. I also assume that some of that power will go towards the multi screen functions of the Xbox surface too.

360 Kinect voice commands or other it features wasn't full work when you are in some games.
The 32MB is in-game OS memory reserved, not a whole OS include Kinect functions. Maybe they want full functions anytime on new one. So it will be more than 32MB. No one will know how much it will be. Maybe they want reserve more higher, in case, more voice commands in the future, etc.

How is that obvious? Kinect requires little RAM as it is, what evidence is there that its successor will require a substantial amount more?
I dunno, but I could feel Kinect force MS reserve larger memory.
 
Downloading 50 gigabytes games sounds like fun.

Meh, I stream 10 gig movies as it is with no lag issues. Usually takes about 10-30 seconds for the initial caching to begin. Obviously dependent upon your connection. I'm referring to HD movies via iTunes, not what Netflix calls HD.
 
Downloading 50 gigabytes games sounds like fun.
Even on consoles, download sizes aren't really such an insurmountable issue. I just downloaded Ni no Kuni on PS3 (22 GB), and all it took is a couple of hours.

Sure, the ISP situation is still bad in some countries, but over the course of this generation 20+ GB downloads should become feasible for many gamers.
 
Meh, I stream 10 gig movies as it is with no lag issues. Usually takes about 10-30 seconds for the initial caching to begin. Obviously dependent upon your connection. I'm referring to HD movies via iTunes, not what Netflix calls HD.

Movies on iTunes are 10GB+? You sure about that?
Maybe if its really long...
 
Even on consoles, download sizes aren't really such an insurmountable issue. I just downloaded Ni no Kuni on PS3 (22 GB), and all it took is a couple of hours.

Sure, the ISP situation is still bad in some countries, but over the course of this generation 20+ GB downloads should become feasible for many gamers.

With the FCC challenging ISPs in the United States to offer 1gb/s internet to users by 2015, this could very easily be the norm. Hell, Google Fiber has some serious potential if it can gain traction in other cities in the US.
 
With the FCC challenging ISPs in the United States to offer 1gb/s internet to users by 2015, this could very easily be the norm. Hell, Google Fiber has some serious potential if it can gain traction in other cities in the US.

And who is paying for the infrastructure to support 1 gigabit/sec?
 
And who is paying for the infrastructure to support 1 gigabit/sec?

For Fiber iirc it would cost Google $1.54 billion to cover the US to offer those speeds to everyone. Beyond that, I honestly have no idea. I wish I could get my city to be up for one of the Google Fiberhoods because $70 a month for gigabit internet sounds pretty good to me.
 
What about the GPU ?
Wasn't that upgraded like 3 months before release ?

Only because they didn't have anything on the market that could approximate the performance of Xenos.

Currently we have 7870, 7950, etc that can do the job fine in a devkit.
 
Every week my feelings change about Durango and Orbis.

that's why it's best to expect the worst, so if it is bad, you aren't disappointed and if it's something great, you are pleasantly surprised.

That's the approach I am taking. As of right now, my view is that they consoles are what would have been released 2-3 years ago if this was a more traditional generation cycle.
 
Even on consoles, download sizes aren't really such an insurmountable issue. I just downloaded Ni no Kuni on PS3 (22 GB), and all it took is a couple of hours.

Sure, the ISP situation is still bad in some countries, but over the course of this generation 20+ GB downloads should become feasible for many gamers.
I don't think we'll see that many 20GB+ games though, devs will try to keep download sizes in check. I also don't think it'll be feasible to create 50GB of unique assets for a single $60 game.
 
Even on consoles, download sizes aren't really such an insurmountable issue. I just downloaded Ni no Kuni on PS3 (22 GB), and all it took is a couple of hours.

Sure, the ISP situation is still bad in some countries, but over the course of this generation 20+ GB downloads should become feasible for many gamers.

I dont want to wait a couple of hours to have a game when i can get to and from a store in 15 minutes.
 
according to Aegies, it's false.

Missed this. I do recall him saying something about a special chip for it that maybe discontinued later.

So 1 chip for BC?

Triangles and vertices info is not included here, but you(Proelite) suggest a higher rate on this GPU versus Orbis? Has this info been rumored before?
 
If 4Gb of GDDR5 is not enough for a Kinect game that I wonder what the hell do they need more memory for. The data set requirements for Kinect are relatively minimal. 4Gb is a huge amount of memory for a console.

Skeletal on the 360 used something like 32MB, and that scales with resolution. Increase the resolution, and you're dealing with much more memory, even assuming you don't change the data structure for better speed instead of space savings. And not counting the option of a _significantly_ larger learning set. The 360 had to stop at something like 12 degrees of freedom because of space issues. If the new one could scan fingers, you've just added 4-10 (depending on how many fingers you track) more degrees of freedom, and it's an exponential relationship between degrees of freedom and size of the database.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1698237&postcount=106
 
I don't understand why people are so worried. Technical specifications is a small variable in determining the success or failure of a console. There is a lot we do not know in determining the value of each package. IMO, anyone determining their next console on processing speeds and CU counts is crazy.

For Microsoft I think their important points are:
-giving us a kinect that does all the crazy things we dream and wish it did now
-improving my media watching in some way that cant be done elsewhere(OS overlay while watching cable and things)
-games, games, games
-Xbox live 3.0
-crazy things I haven't thought of

I honestly think Microsoft's ace is a pricing structure that the competition can't match. If Microsoft comes out with a $199 package with a 2 year xbox live contract o think that is HUGE! I think that would increase the install base rapidly.

Just my thoughts
 
I don't understand why people are so worried. Technical specifications is a small variable in determining the success or failure of a console. There is a lot we do not know in determining the value of each package. IMO, anyone determining their next console on processing speeds and CU counts is crazy.

For Microsoft I think their important points are:
-giving us a kinect that does all the crazy things we dream and wish it did now
-improving my media watching in some way that cant be done elsewhere(OS overlay while watching cable and things)
-games, games, games
-Xbox live 3.0
-crazy things I haven't thought of

I honestly think Microsoft's ace is a pricing structure that the competition can't match. If Microsoft comes out with a $199 package with a 2 year xbox live contract o think that is HUGE! I think that would increase the install base rapidly.

Just my thoughts
People are more concerned with whether they will want to purchase the console than whether it is commercially successful.
 
You can get a full year of Xbox Live for $34.99. Why would anyone take a $199.99 Xbox and pay 15 bucks a month for 2 years of Live?

The promotion isn't working that great because Xbox 360 numbers keep going down YoY. You only pay 99 dollars for the 360.
 
Movies on iTunes are 10GB+? You sure about that?
Maybe if its really long...

HD movies are. Same on Xbox Marketplace. My wife recently rented Pitch Perfect and it was 10.9 gig total. Not a long movie.

I don't understand why people are so worried. Technical specifications is a small variable in determining the success or failure of a console.

True enough. Xbox 360 was proclaimed Xbox 1.5 before release, and after release by some, and somehow it managed to decimate Sony's marketshare. Power is a good thing to have, but you have to pair it with a plan.
 
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