I understood what you meant and it's both a shame and surprising considering Mattrick's background.
VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...
- Thread starter Shikoro
- Start date
I understood what you meant and it's both a shame and surprising considering Mattrick's background.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Probably yes... there is no more market for hardcore consoles. They will have to be very versatile to survive.
I don't understand, why? While neither console will be 100% hardcore at launch, no console really is. It's the resources that's directed to core and mainstream/casual gaming that is a concern for some with MS IMO.
amstradcpc
Member
What is there market for then? IOS and Angry Birds?. This gen MS+Sony have sold 150 million consoles. What kind of market is that?. Casual market is not for the long run. See Zynga, see...Wii u.
I agree. But to maximize sales Sony will be going for that market as well.
Kinect is a given. We have absolutely no idea what Sony has cooked up. Probably a evolution of Move & more.
What some gamers failed to realize that MS has been providing more core games via XBLA. The types I grew up with many gens prior.
NemesisPrime
Banned
A device that does more than just games. Some people want angry birds, some people want party games, some people want to watch movies and some people want their "hardcore" games. One device has to do it all nowadays. Look how the Vita crashed and burned. Same will happen in console-tv land.
Uno Venova
Banned
I don't understand your posts though since no one assumes Sony wont be going for that market at all.
LukasTaves
Member
If I was in charge of Durango, i would definitely go into the direction which allows my console to differentiate itself through features and services and that takes the least possible from the core gaming...
Ms would be stupid not to take advantage of the ecosystem they spent so many years building up. Right now they are pretty much the only company in the world who can provide a unified interface, applications and services across PCs, tablets, smartphones and consoles/set top boxes from the get go. While others even with strong presence on these markets don't control the underlying platform on all those fronts like Ms does... Why wouldn't you take advantage from that now when everyone else is behind you and just let the competitors get their shit together?
The payoff could be incredibly valuable. And to be sure, that's something i wish it was a priority for sony too... Between Ms going all in with W8, apple, google and steam boxes they seem the ones who has the less to offer besides gaming, and that could bite them in the ass big time.
Ms would be stupid not to take advantage of the ecosystem they spent so many years building up. Right now they are pretty much the only company in the world who can provide a unified interface, applications and services across PCs, tablets, smartphones and consoles/set top boxes from the get go. While others even with strong presence on these markets don't control the underlying platform on all those fronts like Ms does... Why wouldn't you take advantage from that now when everyone else is behind you and just let the competitors get their shit together?
The payoff could be incredibly valuable. And to be sure, that's something i wish it was a priority for sony too... Between Ms going all in with W8, apple, google and steam boxes they seem the ones who has the less to offer besides gaming, and that could bite them in the ass big time.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
We should have the same concerns for Sony as well. After all, they have rumored casual launch camera, right? This is a company that inflated the price of the PS3 with blu-ray and the cell.
That said, I understand why some gamers prefer Sony. They do a lot of things really well. I just think the attitude of some people in this thread is immature and myopic.
amstradcpc
Member
I don´t agree. All my friends have a wii, and before that never had a console. Do you think they have bought a Wii u or intend to?. No... The novelty after some time fades like tears in the rain.
And they also don't assume Sony to be going for a heavy casual focus.
AAA devs making Kinect like games.
amstradcpc
Member
I think they both will chase the casual market. But they better not concentrate on it as its volatile like TNT.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Yes.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
On Xbox Live more people stream content than play multi-player games. What's that telling you? People like the other stuff and it will impact their decision making on which console to buy.
Also, the Wii made a shit ton of money for Nintendo.
amstradcpc
Member
A TBDR-like approach of cutting unseen triangles would save them a lot of bandwidth. The SPUs culling library in PS3 made wonders in saving bandwidth.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Uno Venova
Banned
Right, because not much has alluded to that, but right now we just got someones theory that they might move away from the core first casual after mentality, people speculate and talk about that possibility.
CadetMahoney
Member
I was hoping for no hardware parity but it looks like a repeat of this gen.
nah, ppl will just say Uncharted 4 / Naughty Dog even before they release any games.
nah, ppl will just say Uncharted 4 / Naughty Dog even before they release any games.
amstradcpc
Member
Or it will be a glorious day for the hardcore
Oculus Rift is something I think they should pursue, as that would attract both "hardcore" and "casual". And in the long run wouldn´t be perceived like a gimmick because it´s not.
I agree that Sony will make moves to appeal to that audience as well. However if one company is willing to sacrifice core gaming aspects in favor of this more mainstream audience, I can see why many would look down at that direction.
I've said it before, but the appeal of a new console is rather limited to the casual/mainstream audience. This is why it's better to put a heavy focus on the core gamers at launch while still offering some things for the other demographics. There is no pleasing or catering to both camps evenly at launch, one has to suffer to some extent.
Well I don't see Sony repeating the same mistakes, regarding pricing and such, again with the PS4.
Also regarding the bolded line, many here like to believe MS is pulling away from the core gamers, so I usually ignore the clueless people.
It would be a huge mistake to conentrate on it since those aren't the gamers to line up on launch, they aren't the types to buy 3+ games within the launch "window", and they aren't the type to actively support a platform.
LukasTaves
Member
Well, sony did in a way directed the Ps3 to a mainstream market with Blu ray... They did that but increasing the price other than cheaping out on the console itself, but that didn't turned so good for them, so they probably won't do this again...
The question that remains is how sony will try to capture the casual market now and how much of the console budget will be devoted to that. So far, it seems they are not much more than current Ps3 offerings, but somehow i doubt they will be playing the catch up game again like they have been most of current gen.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
Because of insider info or speculation?
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
He's speculating
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Common sense? The PS3 isn't a hardcore console now. I love watching MLB and blu-rays on mine. I'm considering buying my cousin Sony's marque PS3 2012 release, wonderbook.
BloodMoney
Banned
Kinect is garbage. Move is equally unappealing. All Sony needs to do is make good games that don't rely on the implementation of gimmicky technology which appeals to soccer moms. Give me VR (ie Oculus)... thats hardcore.
Does anyone on Gaf actually care about Kinect?
LukasTaves
Member
While i agree if you i can see where they are coming from. Ms ultimate goals are Metro, Xbox live etc... In short, they want you to use they platform and pay for their services, the hardware that allows it is a "implementation detail".
Sony on the other hand does not have a software platform to push, their platform is the hardware...
So, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Ms cut some corners on hardware to achieve it's goal, while sony doesn't...
Of course.
But if Playstation 4 becomes Sega Saturn 2.0/Dreamcast 2.0/Playstation 2.0 that would be insane. Those consoles were the most hardcore of the hardcore IMO.
My issue with some of the reactions is that some here seem to play it off that they are going more in the casual direction than the core when that quote could mean they are instead going to try to cater to both at launch. I think that is also a mistake, but again it seems like some here are only believing what they want to believe.
I can't agree. You don't release a $600 console directed at the mainstream at all. Any new technology, including blu-ray, is entirely directed and geared for the tech (or in this case HT) enthusiasts. Sony did try to make the cost more tolerable by including as much as possible into the OS, but that move hindered the gaming aspect of the console.
LukasTaves
Member
Perhaps not by purchasing games... But they seem to be keen to purchase media content, subscribe to have access to media services etc... Those can generate lots of revenue for Ms and sony.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Sony is of course going to go for the casuals but I don't think they are going after them as much as Microsoft.
LukasTaves
Member
Ps3 was for a while the cheapest BD player on the market.. While it is indeed wrong to call it mainstream, it was a feature to push the console for non gamers... And now that it's relatively cheap i don't doubt many purchase it for that main purpose, or that it is a great point of differentiation against the direct competitor who lacks it.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
The casual market is just fickle. Taking advantage of it is good business. But betting the farm on it seems crazy to me.
I hope/assume neither Microsoft or Sony get anywhere near betting the farm on the casual side. So long has both have a good selection of "hardcore" AAA games each year, I'll be happy.
Nothing would personally please me more than a return to the simplicity of the Snes/Megadrive/PS1 days but realise it isn't going to happen.
I hope/assume neither Microsoft or Sony get anywhere near betting the farm on the casual side. So long has both have a good selection of "hardcore" AAA games each year, I'll be happy.
Nothing would personally please me more than a return to the simplicity of the Snes/Megadrive/PS1 days but realise it isn't going to happen.
Uno Venova
Banned
I don't see how it's common sense, expecting meltdowns at E3 because the PS4 will have the core software support of the PS3?
That's what i would guess as well.
MaulerX
Member
Nah... Sounds more like "Equal core, equal casual". As long as they satisfy the core (the Call of Duties, the Halos, the Crysis, the Assassins Creeds etc.. will not all of a sudden disappear) then there is nothing wrong with giving equal attention to an area which would make their console more appealing to a greater audience.
We might see some of GAF eating that AAA core stuff up while scathing Kinect/Move like games from Sony.
Think about the trolling for Kinectimals. Only magnified ten fold.
Expect the same from MS camp.
E3 should be hilarious.
Tripp Daily
Member
Figure 8.D just made me appreciate the amount of work the people developing kinect have had to do while simultaneously blowing my mind from how much must be computed with every gesture.
unreal
unreal
It tells me that the mainstream audience is larger than the core audience, which has always been the case. This is usually reflected by how well the console has sold to the more mainstream/casual audience.
Your, and GAF's, opinion rarely reflects the masses.
Sadly (for us gamers), even if the PS4 has ~50% more rendering resources, there's a good chance Durango would sell better if prices are similar but Durango offers more features out of the box. IMO this is especially true if one of these features is new and not seen in other media devices.
True, we'll see how well they sell it to this audience. It's risky when so many, cheaper, devices allow you to do the same thing.
I saw it more as pushing the blu-ray format to gamers, which is an audience who tends to buy new devices/tech early, not pushing blu-ray to non-gamers.
I also question how great of a point blu-ray is when the competition is doing fine (sales-wise) in comparison.
1. What Playstation are you referring to with "Playstation 2.0" that was the most hardcore of the hardcore?
2. The failures of the Saturn and Dreamcast were due to a heavy focus on Sega's core gamer and only Sega's core gamer. That is entirely different from focusing on core gamers as a whole.
And? How does that change Sony's focus over the last several years on delivering core gamer experiences?
MLB costs them nothing, its an MLB developed app. Blu-Ray was trojan horsed into the box, sure, but its a zero cost long term investment for them.
Over the course of this generation Sony has put more and more focus on delivering exclusive core gamer experiences. The massive expansion of their first party points to this. Since the beginning of this generation they've had the following first party changes:
1. Naughty Dog started out barely big enough to make one AAA game, they're now big enough to make two simultaneously.
2. Guerrilla was originally a two studio team, when bought by Sony they were effectively culled down to a one studio team. They're now back to a two studio team again plus they oversee Sony Cambridge, now renamed Guerrilla Cambridge.
3. Media Molecule has grown large enough so that they're apparently working on Tearaway for Vita along with another undisclosed product.
4. They purchased Sucker Punch!, who had been an independent studio making Sony IPs, now a full subsidiary.
5. Biggest of all, Sony Santa Monica has gone from being a single IP studio making God of War games to a massive first party collective that can work on one or more IPs entirely on it's own while assisting as many as a half dozen different smaller devs simultaneously and providing technical support to 3rd parties.
Pretty much all of these studios that Sony has grown rapidly over the PS3's life focus on core gamer experiences in one form or another. None are working on Move, EyeToy, or Wonderbook only applications. Sony has an entire second tier of developers working on that, while still rapidly growing their core gamer focused first party offerings.
That is the difference here. Sony is trying some casual oriented devices but aren't betting the farm on it. Instead they're betting on core gamers still being core gamers and still wanting to play the next generation of those experiences.
MS over the course of the Xbox 360 has dramatically reduced the number of core gamer oriented first party studios they employ, has failed to develop any new significant first party core gamer IPs this generation, and has put progressively more and more support behind Kinect and non-gaming media. They're now apparently trying to scale up first party development again to start the new generation, with unproven teams and unknown IPs.
I wouldn't say it's too hard to pick which of these studios is focused on the core gamer more than the other without even digging into the hardware speculation. So when leaks and rumors about the hardware further support this apparent divide it isn't really all that surprising, now is it?
yeah, isn't this diagram brand new? The date would suggest so though I don't have the leaked diagram on hand to do a comparison with.
Playstation 2 had a crapload of experimental, hardcore games. More so than whatever you could find currently on PSN.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
The patent was published today on USPTO's webpage. I haven't seen this diagram before (or Fig 5). Though the more interesting information I think is that of the detailed description. Imagery is probably more tangible in any news context (e.g. new thread) however.
All of this has more to do with the prices of the systems and less abuot the "direction" either company wants to take.
I'm sick of asking this but I think it's appropriate: When Sony basically had the Eyetoy for the mainstream while also offering few core titles (GoW, GT, and KZ) late last gen, did you jump to the same conclusion that they were moving away from the core gamers?
You only bring up everything that's happened that supports your line of thinking but ignore everything that goes against the point you're trying to make.
paradise_circus
Member
but vita and ps3 is doing all that stuff?
iamshadowlark
Banned
What exactly is a hardcore console?
I expect Sony to deliver a modern console. Forward thinking. I don't think anybody who's a big fan of Sony IPs have anything to worry about in regards to wow factor. There's a reason Sony keeps some of the best low level assembly heads on there payrolls(Sony ICE), there's a reason Sony keeps some of the most technically proficient dev houses(ND, SSM,MM), there's a reason they are seemingly investing a good bit of oomph in the system specs.
Sure thy will try to expand and get some of that casual cash but I think we have a good idea o where there main draw is gonna be.
It's MS that's the question mark at this point.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
If they'll just try to get "some of that casual cash" while focusing on the hardcore, this will be their last generation, I have little doubt about that. Both them and Microsoft will have to seriously branch out if they don't want to be left behind like mastodons trapped in tar.