The first one? I loved it back in the day, though I never beat Perfect Chaos.
I didn't play the sequel, but it's well-loved too.
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I didn't play the sequel, but it's well-loved too.
R_thanatos
Member
Sonic adventure structure wasn't bad at all .. there were hidden collectibles, you could went from place to place fast ( very fast ) & everyone on the field was fast.(except big )
And in Dx mode you're rewarded with extra optionnal stuff for exploring.
The only thing that need to be erased from existence is BIG & frog.
Sonic 06 open fields were too big, had stupid mission in them and horrible loadings . ( that need to be erased from existance too )
Shadow Hog
Member
I disagree here a lot. While I can agree that 2K6 had awful overworlds that were far too large and almost entirely devoid of the landmarks necessary to make them work, I thought the ones in Adventure were very well-done (aside from the glitchy collision detection). Fairly small, tons of notable landmarks that made it easy to tell where you were in relation to everything, but plenty of opportunity to dick around with the physics engine (I loved trying to spin dash up the cliff faces in Mystic Ruins), and I liked how there were emblems just lying around for you to stumble upon if you put in the time to look around a bit.
I probably wouldn't want an entire game like that, unless their physics engine was damn near perfect, but as a hub to get from stage to stage? I'm okay with it.
No, the Sonic series got a bad reputation because the developers became impossibly incompetent and made horribly-controlling games with several questionable and often downright bad gameplay decisions. The alternate playstyles in the Adventure games really weren't that bad... Eggman's shooting stages were better than Tails's, from what I've seen, but either way, I've had more fun playing them than I have playing the Sonic/Shadow stages when I started to replay the game via the Steam rerelease.
Except fishing. That was an awful decision.
Oh, no, Sonic 2K6 was broken for a lot more than having too many characters.
That said, I actually agree that focusing too much on multiple characters can often be a detriment to the game. Heroes, for instance. They insisted that there be 12 playable characters, and decided to set it up like a difficulty selection (Sonic = Normal, Dark = Hard, Rose = Easy, Chaotix = Esoteric). Each team played the same stages, for the most part, but since it was just akin to playing the game on Easy or Hard, no harm, right? Except they forced you to play all of the teams to see the final boss, which made the redundancy mandatory.
Or 2K6. Kingdom Valley, Sonic's campaign. Okay, why am I playing as Silver? If I wanted to play as Silver, I'd choose Silver's campaign in the main menu. I should be playing as Sonic if I chose him, dammit.
Sonic Advance 2. It's obviously an oversimplification, but the level design in the early stages is absurdly straightforward.
Sonic 1 also had Caterkiller and those bombs you can't even harm. I like that Sonic has enemies that were actually difficult (while having fair enemy placement). ...Well except for the Metropolis enemies, that's the wrong way of designing difficult enemies.
On a side note, the Starfish gives me a lot less trouble than the mantis and crab enemy in that zone these days for some reason...
GOO GOO G'JOOB
I didn't have a problem with SA1's structure. The adventure fields weren't a headache to deal with and it was mostly easy to figure out where to go. I won't mind if they bring it back and actually improve it. (Sonic 06 did it soooooo so so so wrong)
By the way, to anyone that has played Unleashed, how was the hub world overall? I didn't beat many levels in the PS3 version so I've only experienced little of it.
THIS! Sonic Generations is not even close to being hold forward to win. What the heck?
The only thing that's ever been wrong about how they handle the different characters is the fact they deviate from what the 2D games did with more characters. And that's just making them carbon copies of Sonic with an added gameplay quirk.
Tails could fly, Knuckles could climb walls and glide. Level design I guess had to take those things into consideration... and it'd certainly still be doable to take those into consideration again. Sonic Team for whatever reason wanted to do even more work with SA2.
What people really want when they say they want SA3 is just more playable characters but they retain the Sonic speed gameplay and precision. SA2 had arguably the most tight Sonic controls for a 3D Sonic game. Where SA1 was slippery, SA2 is tighter and less all over the place when you go at higher speeds. Just throw in Tails, Knuckles, and other characters with that same control, gameplay type, and then their own gameplay quirk as optional characters and you have what everyone's been clamoring for. And of course take a few cues from recent Sonic games in regards to how Homing Attack is handled.
Why do you think the most prevalent mods for Generations are to bring Knuckles, Tails, Silver, Blaze, Espio, etc as playable characters? It's because the fans just want a simple reskin of Sonic with one or two differences and of course the attached personality to the character in question.
Different characters to use, despite playing the same as Sonic, can still add fun and content to the game. There's no reason to exclude them unless you're going to go the extra mile like they did with SA2 or S2K6. It's unnecessary to do the work they did for SA2 and especially so for S2K6.
I'm hopeful Sonic Team has seen all the character mods for Generations. So they can take it as the fans saying, "We just want these characters to play like Sonic but Knuckles can glide and climb walls and Tails can fly. It isn't that hard to ask for, Sonic Team!" And then wrap it all together into SA3, with a less complicated storyline (one that's more akin to SA1, I think people liked that story more to begin with) and a variety of levels similar in style to SA1 and SA2 (but moreso SA1).
That's my hope, anyway. SA2 had the most perfect control for Sonic, imo.
Tails could fly, Knuckles could climb walls and glide. Level design I guess had to take those things into consideration... and it'd certainly still be doable to take those into consideration again. Sonic Team for whatever reason wanted to do even more work with SA2.
What people really want when they say they want SA3 is just more playable characters but they retain the Sonic speed gameplay and precision. SA2 had arguably the most tight Sonic controls for a 3D Sonic game. Where SA1 was slippery, SA2 is tighter and less all over the place when you go at higher speeds. Just throw in Tails, Knuckles, and other characters with that same control, gameplay type, and then their own gameplay quirk as optional characters and you have what everyone's been clamoring for. And of course take a few cues from recent Sonic games in regards to how Homing Attack is handled.
Why do you think the most prevalent mods for Generations are to bring Knuckles, Tails, Silver, Blaze, Espio, etc as playable characters? It's because the fans just want a simple reskin of Sonic with one or two differences and of course the attached personality to the character in question.
Different characters to use, despite playing the same as Sonic, can still add fun and content to the game. There's no reason to exclude them unless you're going to go the extra mile like they did with SA2 or S2K6. It's unnecessary to do the work they did for SA2 and especially so for S2K6.
I'm hopeful Sonic Team has seen all the character mods for Generations. So they can take it as the fans saying, "We just want these characters to play like Sonic but Knuckles can glide and climb walls and Tails can fly. It isn't that hard to ask for, Sonic Team!" And then wrap it all together into SA3, with a less complicated storyline (one that's more akin to SA1, I think people liked that story more to begin with) and a variety of levels similar in style to SA1 and SA2 (but moreso SA1).
That's my hope, anyway. SA2 had the most perfect control for Sonic, imo.
R_thanatos
Member
Unleashed hub world weren't bad but they weren't great .. i'd say more i think they were there for the sake of being there. the sand and ice hub world were fine but the first 2 cities hub world shouldn't have been so big
Too many humans, not enough things to do in them in some cases, very small & with few humans in other cases . that's my verdict they were forgettable !
Hot Coldman
Banned
Taking game design directly from 1999 is still a bad idea.
You should learn to separate "will please some" from "is best for the series". At this point in time, carrying on the Generations gameplay for another game is the best route for the series to go, because a) it hasn't gone wrong so far, b) I'd rather Sonic Team settle into next-gen before they try anything too weird, because we all know what happened last time they didn't wait, and c) it'd do the series rep some good to show Generations' success wasn't too dependent on nostalgia, and was mostly fuelled by the gameplay.
Going back to 1999 design is a terrible idea and would be damaging for the series.
Meccanical
Member
The hub worlds were completely unnecessary. Just give me stages. Loved that in Generations, the hub was just the right size.
The collectibles don't really matter in the end, unless you're a fan of Chaos Garden.
The gameplay was really bad (not unplayable, simply BAD).
Oh, and the level design simply sucked. All over the place.
I didn't liked it back in the day of Dreamcast. Didn't liked after playing the DX version on PC. I guess the game wasn't simply for me. Actually, Adventure 2 was a bit more acceptable than the first, but still pretty much bad to me.
Sonic fans are really a divided bunch.
R_thanatos
Member
The overall music in unleashed was excellent on all fronts ..everything's great when it comes to music in unleashed. what i regret are 2 things .
-let me control sonic with the d-pad ( ps3 )
-Never do Eggmanland AGAIN ( ever again )
and ofcourse the given : don't give unnecessary habilities to sonic ( the set of habilities in generations was enough ) , just focus on level design to use those habilities.
Please TEST bug your game !!!
how many times did i fall into the water of dragon road because of some stupid bug ...
That's a different way of thinking
- the collectibles are optionnal , that's why you'renot forced to explore ..but you should be rewarded if you do so.
- the physic in the hub world in sonic adventure was great, characters had weight and you could pick up speed easily . ( now this method of gameplay is now old because generation did it better ) but it's was a decent first shot.
- i disagree for the level design but that's just a matter of taste.
Unleashed hubs would have been good if they stripped it out of the filler. I like the concept of the hubs where you'd find additional levels by exploring around though, it's just a shame they're not that big and kind of scaled down.
This is just me speaking but I really hope for a Sonic game that has a big hub world that's a bit more of a playground where you can run around and explore, finding things on your own. I recall that one Sonic fangame demo, Sonic Freerunner, had simple movement and a level made experimental enough that I can imagine something like that turned into a Hub. Would be cool I suppose.
In other news, Sega-Sammy stock got shot down, and hard too.
It was nice but... is it wrong of me to say the music of Unleashed is kind of, I dunno, "goofy"? It was good music but it never really felt "Sonic-y" to me like the first Adventure game did.
My dream soundtrack would be composed by whoever did the soundtrack for the Sonic OVA. Those 90's synth hooks, all in my veins. It's what I always imagined Sonic games would sound like under higher production values.
Meccanical
Member
I haven't seen much bugginess with any game after Unleashed.
Never had problems with Colors or Generations.
Never had problems with Colors or Generations.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Not really. Ignoring the crazies/furries/whatever and focusing on sane people, they seem pretty OK with what's happening now. There's the fringe lot who wank over Adventure for some reason, and of course there's still going to be some cloud-yelling bring-back-the-Mega-Drive guys, but the general consensus seems to be that Colours/Generations are the best Sonic games since he got green eyes.
It's like a 85/10/5 split.
Meccanical
Member
Jazz is goofy to you?
R_thanatos
Member
yep , too much filler!
Depend if you love jazz or not . it was a departure sure, but they nailed the feelign of adventure in those songs..especially since they wanted ( in unleashed ) a different sense of pacing.
True , but those games didn't have a hub word. ( here lies the problem )
Yeah colors and generations put oil on the burning fire of the sonic fans . i'm also a fan of sonic rush adventure level design .. so i'm personnaly quite satified.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It would be a shame to see the 3DS get the inferior version again when for many years handhelds were the only port of call for those looking for a decent Sonic game.
Shizzlee
Member
Sonic Rush 3DS that's like the first one please. Rush 1 was godlike. Haters can suck it. Dis is what U need.
Meccanical
Member
I still think Sonic Rush has the best soundtrack in a 2D Sonic since Sonic 3 and Knuckles.
Don't mind Jazz, though I might be jaded of the game since the Werehog battle theme kind of is after constant repetition. I guess incredibly cheesy and overblown would be the better words to describe it.
I generally meant the music in Unleashed as a whole though, the daytime level music in Shamar is a good example of how cheesy it is what with the complete usage of every single instrument you'd associate with the real life region. Then there's the overblown orchestral theme and such. It's all really good adventurous production values but I guess it never really felt very Sonic-y in my eyes. Spagonia and Eggmanland were the two music tracks that I really, really loved.
Perhaps it's just that the peppy atmosphere of Unleashed feels rather jarring when I also associate Unleashed with awful pacing, awful Werehog battles, Chip being annoying as shit etc. Colors resonated with me better when it came to the atmosphere.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Best Sonic game since 2. Proceed in my general direction, brother.
Meccanical
Member
I will agree with this.
That goddamned battle theme killed any atmosphere those stages could have had and got old really quick.
Especiall when you got songs like this on. You do not stop something like this to blast horns at me.
Why would you do that? I'll kill you Sonic Team!
Both adventure games were great, and were the last time the series really resembled a 3D platformer.
Well... Sonic 2006, but that game shipped about 6 months before it was finished, so I just count it as a beta that never made it to market.
Meccanical
Member
Emphasis on were.
R_thanatos
Member
Rush adventure had a much better level design but i like both games ..
"RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW "
" TA TA DA DA DAN ATATA DANANDAN "
....
at least it was "ok " i guess
I agree here ..colors has a much better atmosphere a much better balance.
Still on the music alone unleashed is quite high. Holoska Night music is incredible.
Sonic Rush had an awesome soundtrack, but it didn't fit the game, in my opinion. I like it more outside of the game than during it.
Nonetheless, they're the only time the series found its legs in 3D. The more recent games feel more like F-Zero than they do a platformer. They need to go back to the Adventure games and figure out how to make that work again.
I think it went really well with doing tricks in mid-air.
Hey! I would of have liked the game if the level design wasn't so bad. It has a lot of the traditional Dimps faulty level design that just ruins the game for me. ESPECIALLY ALTITUDE LIMIT
The soundtrack is great though, I agree. It's really weird but it really grows on you after a while.
Sonic was dead for me until Rush/Unleashed.
harrypmgaga
Member
FUCK this 2D/3D garbage.
Hype just went from 100x to meh in my opinion.
Hype just went from 100x to meh in my opinion.
The Adventure games have a ton of issues and I wouldn't say they were good either (because they weren't, especially as a whole package). But I'd still say that there's some stuff worth salvaging there. The main problem is them using other playable characters as a lazy excuse to pad the game out (same with Heroes). That and poor gameplay/direction in the Hubs. Avoid those problems, and I think they could get the Sonic Adventure formula to be worthwhile.
An open world Sonic game sounds like a bad idea though. Hub-levels like Mario 64/Spyro/etc? Sure. But completely open world? No thanks.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
On Rush's music; Back to back, dududududud, back to back, gonna something something something. Oh also, Nice guy, nice something, nice guy, gonna change my ways (?)
It was a little odd, but it went with the game somehow. Also, dat paragliding section.
It was a little odd, but it went with the game somehow. Also, dat paragliding section.
They are in Oklahoma now
QUICK! What dev exists in Oklahoma!? Lol
https://twitter.com/kellieparker/status/298842940455923712
it's like they took a road trip and decided that they would tease us while they are on vacation or something.
QUICK! What dev exists in Oklahoma!? Lol
https://twitter.com/kellieparker/status/298842940455923712
it's like they took a road trip and decided that they would tease us while they are on vacation or something.
Omegasquash
Member
Fuck Sonic. Give me more old Shining and I'll buy it.
I just realized the picture was a ticket, xD that's what they get for trolling us XD
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCW0Ei3CMAAeiUG.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCW0Ei3CMAAeiUG.jpg:large
Professor Beef
Banned
The series feeling like "F-Zero" has given the series more success than it has seen in years. Why stop a good thing?
What are you saying is weird? The story? because I don't see anything weird about the gameplay, it could fit right well with modern improvements. Sonic Generations and Sonic Colors didn't exactly please everyone if that is what you seem to be implying, and you really seem to think Adventure is quite awful and isn't good for the series but I disagree. I'm not interested in the serious tone stories, but we haven't seen those in a long time anyway so it's not likely to return.
I mean a lot of people want them to go back to 1992 and 1994 like design with the classics and they ended up doing just that with Sonic Generations, I don't think new = better.
I only want them to bring back classic Sonic in addition to modern, especially after Generations and the giant "fuck you!" that was Sonic 4. That said, modern Sonic certainly isn't perfect. They need to keep moving away from levels that basically play themselves; fewer boost/autorun sections, less rail grinding, more speedy platforming. They've been moving in the right direction over the last 3 games. Going back to Adventure style would be a huuuuuuuuuuuge mistake, though, imo. Sonic just doesn't work in that kind of level design.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Have you tried playing SA 1 or 2 recently? I was suckered into buying them on steam (Damn sales!), and they're just not that good. Yeah, they were cool the first time. I was also less than 10 years old the first time, and everything was cool.
The games are 4/6ths filler characters for SA1, where only tails was really done right, (Almost as fast as sonic, but taking a slightly different level path). The rest were mediocre "find the thing", "Go through this level really slowly", "another slow character with a gun", and "fishing" for knuckles/amy/E102/Big respectively.
Same goes for SA2 with Tails/Eggman and Rouge/Knuckles. Ugh.
None of those were remotely good ideas for a sonic game, and they range from hilariously forgettable to eye wateringly bad. It confuses me hugely that people blast things like the werehog for being horrible design choices that shouldn't be in a sonic game, but then turn around and give adventure 1/2 a free pass.
They're on an Adventure.
The 2D/3D perspective switch is meant to be the solution to that problem, though as of Generations they're finally starting to get the hang of making interesting 3D spaces.
From a technical perspective, it's just that building controls and a camera that can smoothly transition between speeds is tough.
TheCongressman1
Member
Exactly. Boost adds nothing to gameplay and actually ends up taking away from it.
Professor Beef
Banned
Sonic 06 tried that. You really wanna go back to that?
Anth0ny is forbidden to answer this question, btw.
And I would disagree.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
No more mach speed sections.
I don't care if the train is getting away and you've gotta speed up. It's terrible to play.
I don't care if the train is getting away and you've gotta speed up. It's terrible to play.
I'd completely forgotten that he actually liked them.
Yup. Modern Sky Sanctuary is a somewhat good example of some decent 3D platforming in the series. Some obstructions, multiple paths and layers, and some enemies to get rid of if you choose to do so. More level design like that (and a little better than that) and I'll be a little happier.
Meccanical
Member
Seven Force
Banned
I didn't mind how boosting was done in Colors. It was there, but it was limited, and the game structure wasn't designed around doing it all of the time like Unleashed (and to a lesser extent, Generations)
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