Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend - dead

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Deaf Spacker said:
So you think that everyone is taking PED but not as often. Do you have any evidence to back that statement up?
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The testing methods are antiquated and don't produce any empirical data; look at Lance Armstrong. Victor Conte, the dude behind the BALCO, mentioned they're rampant. This isn't new, so I don't know why people are shocked about this.

But this is off topic.
 
entrement said:
The testing methods are antiquated and don't produce any empirical data; look at Lance Armstrong. Victor Conte, the dude behind the BALCO, mentioned they're rampant. This isn't new, so I don't know why people are shocked about this.

But this is off topic.
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I still think that it's a reach to say that everyone's at it.

Nonetheless let's get back on topic, I saw Oscar run at the Paralympics last year and if it turns out he deliberately killed his girlfriend then I will be extremely disappointed. It's not looking good if you believe the papers.
 
I'm hearing he shot her once in the bedroom and then three times in the bathroom (through the door).


After that first shot, wouldn't it be pretty obvious that your near-wife dressed in a nightgown is not a burglar?



Fuck this guy.
 
Huh, I didn't realise South Africa doesn't have jury trials. The police must be pretty confident of their case to charge him with premeditated murder. I don't think they've denied the bat thing either, have they?
 
Why can't these crimes just play out w/o them sounding like he was set up. Now they found roids? Maybe I'm just a conspiracy buff but that just blows my mind. He still sucked it up in the Olympics. Or maybe she was about to out him? Or maybe she used her knowledge of his roids to bang another guy and wouldn't let him dump her or she was gonna tell the papers?

See, it's fun to come up with the possibilities.
 
skinnyrattler said:
Why can't these crimes just play out w/o them sounding like he was set up. Now they found roids? Maybe I'm just a conspiracy buff but that just blows my mind. He still sucked it up in the Olympics. Or maybe she was about to out him? Or maybe she used her knowledge of his roids to bang another guy and wouldn't let him dump her or she was gonna tell the papers?

See, it's fun to come up with the possibilities.
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You are pretty close to victim blaming. None of the scenarios you just described justify murder in any way, shape or form.

Add to that the fact that steroids tend to lead to aggressive behaviour: Any conspiratorial angle seems pretty far fetched.
 
Here are some Tweets from a journalist in the court room. Damning stuff.

I guess 'Nel' is the prosecutor.

Prosecutor: Pistorius shot an "innocent and unarmed woman" through a closed bathroom door. Oscar drops his head into hands and weeps.

There were two ppl in the house during evening. Reeva arrived between 5 and 6, overnight bag in bedroom and cosmeitc bag in the bathroom.

"Pistorius armed himself, walked to bathroom and shot four times thru locked door. He then broke down door and carried Steenkamp downstrs"

#OscarPistorius Prosecutor:"He was met at door by security guards (front door wasn't locked). He told a friend he thought it was a burglar."

Nel: "we say that arming himself, even if to shoot burglar, constitutes preplanning and therfore premeditation." #OscarPistorius

Nel: "there may have been an argument between (Oscar) and the deceased. The only reasonable explanation is that (he) armed himself, walked

to bathroom &shot the deceased while she was on the toilet. He shot four times. There's no poss explanation to support burglar claim."
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https://twitter.com/Simmoa/status/303773665198235648
 
Deaf Spacker said:
I don't think that everyone is doing them.

Do you honestly believe that athletes such as Bradley Wiggins, Ursain Bolt, David Weir and Hannah Cockroft are cheating?

Until we find evidence to prove otherwise I think that saying "Everyone is doing them." is a bit of a shitty thing to say.
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Yep. In cycling, you dope or you don't compete. And do you think it's a coincidence that Jamaica suddenly has the three fastest humans on the planet? I don't know the other two, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
Turgenev said:
Sad. He could have been such a great role model for disabled people around the world.
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He was suspect before this. He is not even the best blade runner and wanted to make more divisions because the other racers have longer blades than he does.
 
Pistorius: We agreed to spend evening at home. By 10pm we were in bedroom, she was doing yoga, I was watching TV with prosthetic legs off.
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So it basically appears he knew she was in the house, and obviously she didn't just rock up in the middle of the night. How the fuck do you then shoot through your bathroom door? Should we all expect to be blown away by our partners if we get up to take a leak in the night?
 
netBuff said:
You are pretty close to victim blaming. None of the scenarios you just described justify murder in any way, shape or form.

Add to that the fact that steroids tend to lead to aggressive behaviour: Any conspiratorial angle seems pretty far fetched.
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I'm just really interested why he would throw his life away. What did he think about when making his decision? What was so bad that he would make such a stupid choice? Maybe I'm the only one who thinks about these things.

I'm not trying to blame the victim. Wouldn't this be the same questions the police are asking? Now they found steroids? Is this like the police stereotype where they sprinkle crack on the innocent to make them look guilty?
 
There's a bunch of updates here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/19/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-live-coverage

He's basically saying that he had no idea she wasn't in bed and tried to save her after he shot her. Says he screamed at intruder to get out before shooting. No idea why she didn't respond though (it's not mentioned).

Sounds coached as expected. Now saying that there's no benefit in keeping him incarcerated as he wont run and wont try to interfere with witnesses.
 
Sadly I can't believe any of it, why would an intruder break in then go to the bathroom?

Also he says he didn't have his legs on but kicked the bathroom door open

Either way he should be locked up for a long long time, even if he thought an intruder was in the bathroom they weren't an immediate threat to him at that point to justify shooting
 
skinnyrattler said:
I'm just really interested why he would throw his life away. What did he think about when making his decision? What was so bad that he would make such a stupid choice? Maybe I'm the only one who thinks about these things.

I'm not trying to blame the victim. Wouldn't this be the same questions the police are asking? Now they found steroids? Is this like the police stereotype where they sprinkle crack on the innocent to make them look guilty?
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No, I think this is like the stereotype where a ton of athletes use steroids.
 
I'd like to believe that Oscar isn't stupid enough to throw his life away like this and that he's innocent, his statement was definately plausable but is it the truth? Time will tell I guess.

Interestingly so far the prosecution hasn't mentioned a bloody cricket bat or PED's but Oscar has said that he used the bat to open the bathroom door.
 
Deaf Spacker said:
I'd like to believe that Oscar isn't stupid enough to throw his life away like this and that he's innocent, his statement was definately plausable but is it the truth? Time will tell I guess.

Interestingly so far the prosecution hasn't mentioned a bloody cricket bat or PED's but Oscar has said that he used the bat to open the bathroom door.
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wut

His statement is absurd.
 
Jeff Albertson said:
Sadly I can't believe any of it, why would an intruder break in then go to the bathroom?

Also he says he didn't have his legs on but kicked the bathroom door open

Either way he should be locked up for a long long time, even if he thought an intruder was in the bathroom they weren't an immediate threat to him at that point to justify shooting
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He made stupid decisions even in his own account, but here's how his account addresses your points:

1. He thought the intruder was hiding on the bathroom after he heard a noise there. He had walked out to the balcony, he thought his gf was in the bed, and he felt vulnerable because of recent reports of violent break ins, death threats he had received, and the fact that he didn't have his legs on. He yelled at the intruder and then called out to his gf, who he thought was in bed, to call the police.

2. After shooting three times through the door, he went back to the bed to get his gf, and seeing she was not in the bed, realized the huge mistake he made, he still didn't have his legs on so he used a cricket bat to break down the door and found her slumped over the toilet, at which point he called the paramedics, some security guards, then carried her, still alive, downstairs.
 
Without any more evidence from the prosecutor, I'd say his statement is entirely plausible. He was stupid and rash even in his own account, and there are some holes, like why didn't his gf answer when he yelled at the bathroom door, but stupidity isn't murder. That said, the prosecutor probably has other facts we don't know about yet, like an argument that day or previous reports of abuse between them. At worst, the prosecutor has the fact that he didn't really give her any chance to respond apparently, so he would have to explain why he went Rambo on her if she didn't jump out at him or make any sudden moves.
 
VanMardigan said:
Without any more evidence from the prosecutor, I'd say his statement is entirely plausible. He was stupid and rash even in his own account, and there are some holes, like why didn't his gf answer when he yelled at the bathroom door, but stupidity isn't murder. That said, the prosecutor probably has other facts we don't know about yet, like an argument that day or previous reports of abuse between them. At worst, the prosecutor has the fact that he didn't really give her any chance to respond apparently, so he would have to explain why he went Rambo on her if she didn't jump out at him or make any sudden moves.
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Exactly, if his statement is true then he is fucking stupid.

To be honest I know it's early days but I was expecting the prosecution to have more facts beyond the blindingly obvious ones. There's no mention of this alleged argument earlier in the evening, nothing to say that she was unhappy with him and no mention of head injuries caused by a cricket bat etc.

I'm getting fed up of people thinking that all athletes use PED's and therefore Oscar must have anger issues.
 
Deaf Spacker said:
Exactly, if his statement is true then he is fucking stupid.

To be honest I know it's early days but I was expecting the prosecution to have more facts beyond the blindingly obvious ones. There's no mention of this alleged argument earlier in the evening, nothing to say that she was unhappy with him and no mention of head injuries caused by a cricket bat etc.

I'm getting fed up of people thinking that all athletes use PED's and therefore Oscar must have anger issues.
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I'm not suggesting Oscar had 'roid rage' but to think that most of the top athletes aren't on PEDs in this day and age is incredibly naive.
 
You have to be pretty stupid to start shooting through a door not knowing for sure who is behind it.

The guy murdered her, no doubt!!
 
Deaf Spacker said:
Exactly, if his statement is true then he is fucking stupid.

To be honest I know it's early days but I was expecting the prosecution to have more facts beyond the blindingly obvious ones. There's no mention of this alleged argument earlier in the evening, nothing to say that she was unhappy with him and no mention of head injuries caused by a cricket bat etc.

I'm getting fed up of people thinking that all athletes use PED's and therefore Oscar must have anger issues.
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He definitely has issues even if we believe his scenario. Stupidity doesn't explain the necessity to shoot four times through a locked door. He apparently also claims that he shot at the door immediately after shouting rather than waiting for a reaction because it is not plausible that Reeva didn't react in any way if he indeed did shout.
 
syllogism said:
He definitely has issues even if we believe his scenario. Stupidity doesn't explain the necessity to shoot four times through a locked door. He apparently also claims that he shot at the door immediately after shouting rather than waiting for a reaction because it is not plausible that Reeva didn't react in any way if he indeed did shout.
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He does come across as quite stupid but my understanding of South Africa from the saffers I've met is that if someone breaks in, you shoot them with no warning whatsoever as the robbers don't fuck about out there.
 
Incontinentia Buttocks said:
He does come across as quite stupid but my understanding of South Africa from the saffers I've met is that if someone breaks in, you shoot them with no warning whatsoever as the robbers don't fuck about out there.
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Even if we are to believe that he had a reasonable cause for believing that there is an intruder in the bathroom, the issue is that an intruder locked in a bathroom does not present an immediate threat.

Do we know how close the bathroom was to the bedroom? That seems pretty important since he claims hearing noises from the bathroom while he was on the balcony. What kind of scary noises could he possibly have even heard from the bathroom since it was just Reeva inside?

e: "the bathroom, which is about 21 feet from the main bedroom, and that the two rooms are linked by a passage."
 
syllogism said:
Even if we are to believe that he had a reasonable cause for believing that there is an intruder in the bathroom, the issue is that an intruder locked in a bathroom does not present an immediate threat.

Do we know how close the bathroom was to the bedroom? That seems pretty important since he claims hearing noises from the bathroom while he was on the balcony. What kind of scary noises could he possibly have even heard from the bathroom since it was just Reeva inside?
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Plus someone earlier posted a tweet from a while ago where the dude thought his washing machine was an intruder. Dude is paranoid as fuck and a gun nut. His defense is not even really worth debating as it still shows he is a loose cannon and is not fit for society.
 
Far more plausible than his story is the idea that she got a compromising text while taking a dump, he read it, confronted her about it from the other side of the door, he wasn't satisfied with her answer, and he opened fire.

Of course, the prosecution has to prove that there was a motive, so they have to produce evidence of a domestic dispute. The idea that he shot her with 10 minute intervals and didn't bring her body down for an additional 45 minutes (and never called an ambulance nor the police despite his first instinct that he'd killed a violent criminal) is going to be really, really hard for the defense to explain.
 
I assume that he smashed her head with a cricket bat turned out to be false? Because that would obviously be the most damning evidence.
 
Kinyou said:
I assume that he smashed her head with a cricket bat turned out to be false? Because that would obviously be the most damning evidence.
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There was blood on the bat so one of them used it. She was also dragged down the stairs according to reports so there must have been a long blood trail. I don't see anyway how he can get out of this, way too much evidence.
 
Batman said:
There was blood on the bat so one of them used it. She was also dragged down the stairs according to reports so there must have been a long blood trail. I don't see anyway how he can get out of this, way too much evidence.
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If the cricket bat wasn't used as part of an attack then I think that the only way it could have got blood on it is if he dropped it by her body after using it to force his way through the door.
 
Batman said:
There was blood on the bat so one of them used it. She was also dragged down the stairs according to reports so there must have been a long blood trail. I don't see anyway how he can get out of this, way too much evidence.
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The blood on the bat can easily be explained as he dragged her out of the bathroom in an attempt to get her downstairs. If she doesn't have any bodily damage from the bat, and the prosecution didn't mention it, its likely that the blood is incidental to the chaotic rush after he shot her and tried to get her out.
 
The prosecution pretty much argues that he is a cold blooded psycho killer regardless of whether he thought Reeva was inside because shooting four times through the locked door of a very small room always implies intent to kill, there was no immediate threat and it can not have been spontaneous. That was not a warning shot and even if his claims about shouting at the intruder first are true, it's hard to reconcile that with the lack of response unless he shot immediately after shouting or if he didn't give a warning at all. To wit, even if he thought there was a burglar inside, he shot with the intent to murder, not out of self defense.

It's also likely why they didn't reveal more facts today but rather relied on "objective" facts that neither side could dispute. They might bring more tomorrow if they find it necessary and now they can use them to challenge defence's claims.
 
VanMardigan said:
Without any more evidence from the prosecutor, I'd say his statement is entirely plausible. He was stupid and rash even in his own account, and there are some holes, like why didn't his gf answer when he yelled at the bathroom door, but stupidity isn't murder. That said, the prosecutor probably has other facts we don't know about yet, like an argument that day or previous reports of abuse between them. At worst, the prosecutor has the fact that he didn't really give her any chance to respond apparently, so he would have to explain why he went Rambo on her if she didn't jump out at him or make any sudden moves.
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Stupidity isn't murder but he didn't stupidly trip onto a gun and have it fire four times, he shot to murder someone four times
 
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