The Wii U in a worse or better shape after the PS4 reveal?
- Thread starter JaxJag
- Start date
I remember everyone thinking Super Mario Sunshine didn't look any better than Mario 64 when they first saw it. Rose tinted glasses indeed.
In what way? Other than Capcom's Deep Down demo, they wasn't really anything earthshattering when it came to the PS4's games and graphics. Killzone was just another generic on the rails FPS. And the social media stuff is something the WiiU already has in Miiverse.
As for all those saying that Wii U is gonna get left behind in the technological dust by the PS4 and the new Xbox:
I have to say that this example does ignore triangles/PER SECOND. Which is very important. More models, larger draw distances etc.
Also, even if you consider triangles less important, it's the texturing and lighting that is.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
Well, what you meant to say is on pretty much the opposite spectrum of what you originally said. It comes off as backpedaling, not as a mistake.
No-one actually believes that Killzone is a 50x power increase over the current generation, but it's still a generational leap.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Haha this is pure bullshit right here lol
It also discounts resolution and display size too. A 50", 1080p TV looks like abject garbage with a Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, or Xbox connected.
People were saying it. The Gamecube wasn't super popular in my circles. Obviously Sunshine looks significantly better. Halo 3 to Halo 1 is another example.
first we should wait till these actual games release and are running on actual HW, Yes they looked pretty impressive) but we know the industry likes their bull. especially since Deep Down and infamous didnt look like games at all.
Also I would have to respectfully disagree about ZombiU, to the average consumer no, it probabaly doesnt look like anything different. However, to me the lighting and atmosphere, and in some locations, the textures, and modeling, look beyond current gen. other parts not so much. It was a sort of small budget game with a short dev cycle finished with incomplete dev kits and documentation too. No where near the budget and resources of the games you are listing unfortunately.
not sure what you mean by "joysticks". The analog sticks are great. and you can have at least 5 controllers connected to the system(of different sorts). And gasps some of them you most likely already own, I was playing 5 player games w/o even having to buy a new controller on a brand new system. Which currently doesn't seem to be the case for the other next gen games.
Also not sure what is making it a joke exactly. Press and consumers that have actually used it, love it and some even prefer it. The wii u as a whole maybe I could agree, that some see it as a joke.
Ace Harding
Member
The PS4 and next Xbox will be "better" than the Wii U in every single feature checkbox column except one: "Plays Nintendo games"
That's really all that matters for Nintendo. They have at least one more console gen to be able to do that.
That's really all that matters for Nintendo. They have at least one more console gen to be able to do that.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Well here's the big problem: Wii isn't attracting it's old casual base since it went for a more focus on games. I'm pretty sure they were trying to entice current 360 and PS3 users to come over to their side.
But with more information and media finally coming out about durango and orbis, current 360 and PS3 users will probably do the leap in the other direction (of course if the price is right too and they can really make demos/graphics that make it worth the leap).
The big concern I think (for Sony and MS) is to market Orbis and Durango in a way that makes it REALLY stand out. So it's worth it for the average user to want to upgrade, instead of going "Well that doesn't look all that different than my current X360 game. I'll stick with my 360"
But with more information and media finally coming out about durango and orbis, current 360 and PS3 users will probably do the leap in the other direction (of course if the price is right too and they can really make demos/graphics that make it worth the leap).
The big concern I think (for Sony and MS) is to market Orbis and Durango in a way that makes it REALLY stand out. So it's worth it for the average user to want to upgrade, instead of going "Well that doesn't look all that different than my current X360 game. I'll stick with my 360"
Wait, no, watch the Jimmy Fallon video, you can't see anything but fog on the city in the background, with no reflections or anything. Watch closely when they approach the helicopter thing, either the vehicle switches to a vastly different quality model because of the aggressive LOD, or the scene seamlessly changes from realtime to prerendered, like God Of War 3 does. The city looks pretty different, but he gets shot at the same time, so it's kinda hard to tell the transition.
Not saying that the PS4 isn't powerful, but I'm pretty sure that the entire hanging from a rope scene is prerendered, just stealthy about it, like the beginning of Red Steel 2, or Uncharted 2 and 3's cutscenes.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Thats undeniably ludicrous if true.
Listen, you can't keep changing goalposts here and dodging when people point out evidence that goes against what you're trying to say:
You're postulating that Zombi U looks better than PS3/360 games due to lighting, but that Killzone Shadow Fall doesn't?
That's lunacy.
I referred to the limitations of the Wii-U gamepad, specifically the limitations it has with volume of controllers. You cannot hook up 5 of them, only 1 or 2 maximum. You can, of course, use more Wiimotes and so forth, but those are not the gamepad, which you were advocating as a controller that makes others look like jokes. The sticks on the pad aren't even up to par with the 360 or PS3 sticks to most people, but you're obviously allowed to have your own opinion on that matter.
Creating this false narrative that the public thinks the Wii-U's gamepad makes other controllers "look like jokes" is borderline delusional. It's simply not the case for the vast majority of people. Do you honestly think the consensus is that the DualShock 3, DualShock 4, and 360 controller are "jokes" due to the Wii-U gamepad?
It is ludicrous. People always look at new consoles at first and don't ind the leap to be terribly appealing, it seems. Hell, people still think Motorostorm 1 on PS3 wasn't particularly better looking that PS2 racers, and that game is gorgeous in motion.
After Fallon confirmed Killzone was completely in-game, that seems to be the new attempt at wet-blanketing the PS4 right now. It's definitely funny.
iamvin22
Industry Verified
Nobody anywhere is claiming it's a rosy situation, but it's not nearly as bleak as you haters want it to be either. 6 of the top 9 selling multiplatform games in 2012 were available on Wii U. 7 of the top 9 in both December 2012 and 7 of 9 in January 2013 are on Wii U. The top tier games are mostly there. It's the next tier that's MIA. It'd be nice if duds like DmC had appeared I guess, since there's nothing else. But it turns out that nothing is sometimes better.
DmC has had rave reviews. Why is its absence from the Wii-U (along with a lot of other third-party games) somehow better for gamers?
Do you not want third party games?
first of all, when did I say any of that which is bolded? I think you may have me confused with someone else.
especially, in the direct comment you are quoting that I say the [ps4 games] look impressive. Nor did I ever say that the other gamepads are jokes.
as far some of the public thinking the gamepad is good....
http://www.destructoid.com/black-ops-ii-wii-u-the-preferred-console-experience--239573.phtml
http://kotaku.com/5964642/wait-a-mi...ke-the-wii-us-allegedly-inferior-black-ops-ii
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/01/07/wii-u-cod
http://operationrainfall.com/why-the-wii-u-gamepad-is-the-best-controller-ever/
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/off-tv-play-is-so-awesome-its-a-system-seller-imo.452887112/
http://gengame.net/2012/11/wii-u-take-home-impressions-the-gamepad-works-like-a-dream/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514308 (about pro controller though)
I could keep going... yeah not every one will like it, but I dont think it can be referred to as a joke.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
better shape. I think that the wii-u will actually see more support from 3rd parties because the disparity between the platforms is smaller.
I... don't think that's the case. The Wii-U hardware is closer, effectively, to a PS3 and 360 than it is a PS4. Although, multiple screen support becoming standardized can be a good thing for Wii-U development.
This couldn't be further from the truth. The architecture is much closer to the newer consoles than the older ones. Reality of ports depends more on publisher willingness and their own market analysis than the technical feasibility.
Sorry. Replace DmC with Aliens (which may be coming yet I suppose). DmC wouldn't be moving any Wii U systems though it seems.
Why do so many people on GAF neglect the fact that the Wii U has only been out for about 3,5 month?
Is Wii U Sports out?
Is Wii U Fit out?
Is Wii U Party out?
Is Mario Kart U out (that's also a pretty huge "casual" title)
Is Wii Play U out?
Is Mario Party U out?
Right now Nintendo has some problems with name confusion, wrong marketing and a very normal post-launch gaming drought.
How can you say that the old casual base isn't attracted by the Wii U when "their" games haven't even been out yet?
It is the same situation as with the 3DS. People jump to conclusions WAY WAY WAY to early.
So what you're saying is Wii U software will be on par, technically, closer to PS4 than 360/PS3?
I clearly wrote "architecture"
The ease of porting will depend more on the similarity in architecture than any type of "flops" you'd want to count. It's already obvious that the Wii U has less "horsepower."
The architecture of the Wii U is closer to the new consoles than the older ones. That's not subjective. Porting requires cutting back things like resolution, textures, physics, etc... But the similarity in architecture will make this easy if publishers are interested in doing it.
I'm willing to believe it will after seeing what they have at E3. I'll gladly eat crow if they fail to (further) differentiate themselves from the PS360 by then (even though Need for Speed Most Wanted U is a good indicator that they will).
Vidya4chan
Banned
"THE WII-U IS DEAD GUYS! NINTENDO IS FINALLY FALLING! JUST LIKE WITH THE GAMECUBE, WII, NDS, AND 3DS! THEY'RE FINALLY FINISHED! IT'S NOT LIKE A NEW LoZ, SSB, MARIO KART, OR 3D MARIO WILL IMMEDIATELY SAVE IT, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKED NOW!"
I think a lot of you nintendo haters are afraid of the truth. Here's the facts: It's been 3 months since launch and a it's not selling greatly. The console has literally NO nintendo games whatsoever yet it is still selling. When the nintendo games come out people will buy the console, it's been like this since the super nintendo was released.
pic related, upcoming confirmed exclusives.
I think a lot of you nintendo haters are afraid of the truth. Here's the facts: It's been 3 months since launch and a it's not selling greatly. The console has literally NO nintendo games whatsoever yet it is still selling. When the nintendo games come out people will buy the console, it's been like this since the super nintendo was released.
pic related, upcoming confirmed exclusives.
SillyEskimo
Member
Here is my opinion on the matter.
At this point the games I am most looking forward to playing are WiiU exclusives, which kind of blows my fucking mind. This includes Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, and X. So, until next gen consoles announce games that excite me like those titles, the WiiU is going to get my business (as will the other next gen consoles I will buy launch day).
It's all about the games so as long as Nintendo continues to announce (and eventually even release!) compelling games and make a profit, they will be fine.
Nintendo has been a niche console for several generations now in terms of software. That niche may be getting smaller though.
At this point the games I am most looking forward to playing are WiiU exclusives, which kind of blows my fucking mind. This includes Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, and X. So, until next gen consoles announce games that excite me like those titles, the WiiU is going to get my business (as will the other next gen consoles I will buy launch day).
It's all about the games so as long as Nintendo continues to announce (and eventually even release!) compelling games and make a profit, they will be fine.
Nintendo has been a niche console for several generations now in terms of software. That niche may be getting smaller though.
metalslimer
Member
"THE WII-U IS DEAD GUYS! NINTENDO IS FINALLY FALLING! JUST LIKE WITH THE GAMECUBE, WII, NDS, AND 3DS! THEY'RE FINALLY FINISHED! IT'S NOT LIKE A NEW LoZ, SSB, MARIO KART, OR 3D MARIO WILL IMMEDIATELY SAVE IT, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKED NOW!"
I think a lot of you nintendo haters are afraid of the truth. Here's the facts: It's been 3 months since launch and a it's not selling greatly. The console has literally NO nintendo games whatsoever yet it is still selling. When the nintendo games come out people will buy the console, it's been like this since the super nintendo was released.
pic related, upcoming confirmed exclusives.
Someone needs to buy a new dictionary. Also I see you've moved from 3DSvs Vita list wars to this. It's been interesting to watch people throw the New Super Mario Bros series as a system seller under the bus because the Wii U isn't selling well.
"THE WII-U IS DEAD GUYS! NINTENDO IS FINALLY FALLING! JUST LIKE WITH THE GAMECUBE, WII, NDS, AND 3DS! THEY'RE FINALLY FINISHED! IT'S NOT LIKE A NEW LoZ, SSB, MARIO KART, OR 3D MARIO WILL IMMEDIATELY SAVE IT, THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKED NOW!"
I think a lot of you nintendo haters are afraid of the truth. Here's the facts: It's been 3 months since launch and a it's not selling greatly. The console has literally NO nintendo games whatsoever yet it is still selling. When the nintendo games come out people will buy the console, it's been like this since the super nintendo was released.
pic related, upcoming confirmed exclusives.
lol i'm loving these meltdowns
In a nutshell, so I can bow out of any more Nintendo delusion and meltdown posts, I'm not worried about Nintendo or even the Wii-U despite its paltry sales numbers. The Wii-U exclusives will drive that machine like other Nintendo consoles before it.
I don't think third party support for the Wii U will be much better than it was on the Wii due to the gulf in hardware, unless both PS4 and Durango are significant flops and companies stick to PS3/360 development longer due to install base.
I don't think third party support for the Wii U will be much better than it was on the Wii due to the gulf in hardware, unless both PS4 and Durango are significant flops and companies stick to PS3/360 development longer due to install base.
Considering publisher's willingness, specs and architecture: The likelihood of a PS360 + Wii U port is more or less the same as a PS4/720 + Wii U port.
Downporting a PS4 game is not that far removed from changing a PC game's graphical setting from High to Low for things like texture, shadows, AA, resolution, etc... Of course, it's more work then pressing some buttons, but it's less than porting a game designed to run on the 360.
Nintendos controller does give them 1 advantage that could make a big difference. Right now the ps4's innovation is on the technical side of things. They are not easy to communicate and they are not the type of features that create excitement, curiosity and emotion in general from the casual crowd.
If Nintendo creates a killer app for the tablet that really shows innovation and has mass appeal they might be able to get some mainstream feature press and generate broader market interest. Out of all the console makers nintendo has the best shot at this given their past track record and their ability to create and innovate in the gaming space...wii sports, wii fit, brain age, nintendogs etc..
You can knock nintendos tech from the graphical side, but let a casual gamer play with a ps4 and a wiiu and I'll bet you anything they think the wiiu is more next gen simply because the tablet provides something new that is easier and faster to grasp. It creates feels easier and faster for a broader market....they just need the right app and marketing to stir the pot once again.
The problem however is its hard to create and manufacture the type of marketing nintendos hopes, wants and needs. Its much more organic. What they need to do is create multiple "perfect storm" scenarios (games that make the tablet awesome) where there is potential for mass market appeal along with "coolness" & innovation" that gets attention from major media outlets.
If Nintendo creates a killer app for the tablet that really shows innovation and has mass appeal they might be able to get some mainstream feature press and generate broader market interest. Out of all the console makers nintendo has the best shot at this given their past track record and their ability to create and innovate in the gaming space...wii sports, wii fit, brain age, nintendogs etc..
You can knock nintendos tech from the graphical side, but let a casual gamer play with a ps4 and a wiiu and I'll bet you anything they think the wiiu is more next gen simply because the tablet provides something new that is easier and faster to grasp. It creates feels easier and faster for a broader market....they just need the right app and marketing to stir the pot once again.
The problem however is its hard to create and manufacture the type of marketing nintendos hopes, wants and needs. Its much more organic. What they need to do is create multiple "perfect storm" scenarios (games that make the tablet awesome) where there is potential for mass market appeal along with "coolness" & innovation" that gets attention from major media outlets.
That's a real shame for the Wii-U then.
Or I can pick up the games on the platforms as I see fit based on price and timing. There is no rule that the three main hardware players need content/feature parity.
who knows, but the gulf is not nearly as big as it was this generation. Nor is the architecture completely different. With TEV in the wii, as I understand it developers basically had to remake their games from the ground up to bring ports to wii.
With that, I think the biggest will mostly be the stigma that third party games dont sell on nintendo platforms. or that devs will think they need to make their game take advantage of every feature of the gamepad. Or they will just continue to use that as an excuse.
FF15 Agnes and Deep Down do look that much better
They are close to CGI quality
The difference is rather huge
Zombie James
Banned
Or, they could just release a modern system, develop good developer relations, and let the games speak for themselves. Highly successful systems before the Wii (PS2, PSX, SNES/Genesis) managed to get all of this "broader mass market casual mainsteam" appeal without trying so damn hard to cater to them.
thats the problem, wait till they are actual games on finished HW, currently right now, they look like they are just cutscenes, no more.
Niot to say they wont potentially look great, but we should be wary of the industry precedence of smoke and mirrors
Your missing his point. To the average joe, its harder to "experience" next gen with graphics and pure tech. The wii (along with ds and tablets somewhat) shows that the broader market is drawn to and hooked by tactile experiences. Visual experiences dont carry the same weight with this market as in the past. The proof is in the pudding. Its why MS is pushing kinect.
Unless the visual aspect is a huge leap or something like an occulus rift, its not next generation experience normal people will connect with quickly and easily. Its the nature of the visual sense it self.
Agnes has been shown real time, in GTX680 and 1080p/60fps (and confirmed as unoptimized)
Plus PS4 has unified ram, comparing to separate pools on PC
You dont even need a GTX680, but only half its power to run it in 1080p/30fps
So, it is not smoke and mirrors
The staging of those demos is though, i will agree there, but that is more about the camera AI and real time scripting than a power thing
Just last page you were saying that KZ SF demo was CGI. I think it's safe to say you really have no idea what you're talking about and need to dial it back a bit.
So your telling me that the broader market that Nintendo was able to tap into with the wii or even the ds with games like brain age is a market that was tapped in past generations like the ps2?
Modern system, developer relations, etc..this is all stuff to cater to the core gamer. It has very little to do with the broader/expanded market. The broader market is now a proven market of buyers, their just not an easy market to hook into for console makers. Thats why you see all the mainstream press giving sony heat. Sony gave the broad market very little attention. The media knows the broad market exists and could be buyers. So what they see from sony is, sony playing it safe and doing things the old way...
The wii created a paradigm shift in market potential. It showed gaming can be appealing in a much broader scope. Moreso then any other modern console. From now on, if your not even trying to appeal to that potential audience, your basically being a pussy and limiting sales because you cant innovate in a more consumer concentric way.
Part of the problem is most Gaffers are gamers at heart. Its makes it harder to step back and see the business side of things.
Killing_Joke
Member
IMO i think 3rd party is going to bail once they stop with PS3/360 ports. Which could be by the end of 2014 after PS4/Nextbox picks up some sales.
Vidya4chan
Banned
"none of us know the future"
This.
except for the people who have a brain and clearly know the wii u is going to sell like hotcakes when that new zelda/3d mario/brawl get's shat out by nintendo
nope reread my post, damn people in here. I already clarified this.
and yes I do know what I am talking about.