Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Is that profanity really necessary? People were having a civil discussion here.
The Wii U in a worse or better shape after the PS4 reveal?
- Thread starter JaxJag
- Start date
Chinpoko_Master
Member
They demoed it on Jimmy Fallon. Pretty sure it was real, bro. It looked good but it didn't look good enough to be fake.
shinra-bansho
Member
I listed some omitted titles, (incorrect regarding The Witness apparently) and then said "Not to mention..." i.e. there's also a ton of other games not coming announced since the reveal.
Anyone under any illusions that the Wii U currently has fantastic third party support, or that signs are indicating it will have great third party support going forward is deluding themselves.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
I disagree.
richman555
Member
After the conference, I feel a lot better about Nintendo's position. I feel Nintendo is more likely to hit their stride with games and the price is much easier to absorb. Unless Microsofts console pushes Nintendo on price, Id say they are in good shape.
Well during the actual gameplay part the entire city skyline is blownout and obscured by fog and smoke...
That raised a red flag of sorts to me. Not saying the city isnt realtime in the intro, but I guess implying, that it wouldnt be fully explorable/interactive. More like for on rails type segments like the end.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Because when people on GAF are talking about Nintendos poor third party support, they are usually referring to specifically western third parties, and also usually referring specifically to 'the big guys' of Activision, EA and Take Two.
The PSP wasn't exactly short on Eastern third party support either, although Eastern developers have never had the contempt for handheld gaming that Western third parties have prior to the PSP (until the iPhone came out and western third parties couldn't get enough)
They were as new as Lost & The Damned or Ballad Of Gay Tony were. They also released at an 'expansion pack' price to reflect that.
H_Prestige
Banned
That's like saying Uncharted games are not real time because you can't interact with all the scenery.
There is absolutely no profanity in my posts. Or is this just a common thing to say when someone else's opinion does not align with yours ? Huh, not that surprising.
I'm not a Nintendo hater, their choice upsets me more than anything else. They have a talented group of studios that deserve better hardware.
Gamers will embrace Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, next Pikmin, Mario, Zelda, etc.
Unfortunate less wealthy gamers will wish they could afford a Wii U.
Only single console owner warriors will care for the discrepancy and pass on fantastic games.
Version 3.0
Member
That's not spin. Last week, every news outlet had a story about how awful the Wii U is doing. Until they can get some games coming, no attention is better than negative attention. Maybe I shouldn't use the word "better". "Not quite as terrible" might be the way to say it.
Oppo
Member
No it doesn't. That's not tessellation. That's a bump map.
Listen I'm totally willing to concede that the Wii U has a "superior" version of this game, all I've maintained here is that the specific comparison quoted earlier is fundamentally flawed. I'll take the devs at their word.
Majmun
Member
The Wii was the cheapest system to develop for and also the best selling console last gen. But the third parties ignored it anyway.
The WiiU is probably going to be the cheapest plarform when it comes to budgets, compared to Ps4 and nextbox. But it's nowhere near Wii's success.
Why should third parties suddenly care now?
Reality check: they don't and they won't.
um no its not, because I clearly didnt say that, reread my post.
"Not saying the city isn't realtime" But we also have no confirmation that it actually is. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
All I am saying is that I find it suspicious that the part with actual player movement and control, you are surrounded by fog and smoke, and the city is basically completely gone.
And yes you can get away with a lot of trickery with distant backgrounds.
Right. And at least for PS2 and PS3 those were big selling points initially, so now that they don't have that they've cut out a chunk of their initial buyers.
megabytecr
Member
yes, pretty much.
Getting NFSMWU and Lego City next month. Lego City looks like it will be a pretty little clever funny game.
Really having a tough time deciding what to get next between PC, PS4 and Xbox, leaning a bit with PC. But I am not running anywhere just yet, no need to rush.
Reality check: x360, PS3, Wii U and high-end tablets will remain a major market for years to come.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
It looks a lot like a displacement map to me, rather than just bump mapping, but it is a scaled down fixed viewpoint screenshot.
The disparity wouldn't look as great if it was just bump mapping, as the 360 can easily handle bump mapping but not tesselation.
It remains to be seen what those titles will bring to the table. They may be good but I don't think it will be enough to turn things around.
Regardless of their intrinsic quality, the fact that they will be vastly inferior graphics wise to pretty much anything running on the PS4/720 is going to weigh. Zelda, Mario and Pikmin are system sellers but I wouldn't bet on an immediate success if Sony and MS do a good job at drawing the attention. The Wii U is struggling to get some spotlight at the moment and it's very worrying that the general public does not care at all for the system. :/
I think one element that going to play a part in an hypothetic Wii U success is the ability to play used games on it.
Hm, can't say I'd draw that comparison because pretty much every environment in Uncharted is visible. What majik seems to be implying is more akin to the way Bionic Commando obscured it's levels with radioactive fog to prevent you from exploring the poorly designed city (or rather lack of design period) in the game. In other words it's using a few tricks and such to actually cut down on the supposed real time if it's not sacrificing game play design.
I recall someone in another thread claimed that judging from the big explosion screen grab, parts of it might had been pre-rendered. Similarly I won't believe that something like the Panta Rhei demo's real-time fire would be do-able in game play until I see it in a game with my own eyes.
so far so good... i guess you are trying to say Wii U competes with PS3/360 right?
Wickerbasket
Member
Well I'm sure the 360, PS3 and tablets will remain major markets for the next few years.
You can't really say Wii U is a major market though, until people start buying it and it's software.
Depending on how hard it is to port games to the Wii U, I could see devs completely ignore porting to it considering the bad software sales.
Majmun
Member
X360, Ps3 and the tablets...sure.
Don't know about the WiiU. Ps360 are cheaper and offer a bigger library of games. And you'll have to eventually get nextgen hardware if you want to play the newest games. Games that probably won't appear on Ps360 and WiiU.
are high end tables going to dissapear in 2-3 years? I doubt it... they have nothing to do with those 3 consoles.
Wickerbasket
Member
I think he's saying that high end tablets are going to continue to sell, which might mean its possible that Wii U could receive ports of tablet games.
It's possible I guess, if the Wii U ever has the install base to sustain those types of software sales.
Realistically, Wii U competes with whatever's intruding on it's market space, including it's own consoles. That much almost became purely evident when Japan proved to still favor PSP over Vita a deal.
Unless something goes horribly wrong, Wii U is probably going to stay alive well after the mostly permanent development switch from PS3/360 to PS4/Durango.
apparently it is not too hard, unless you want to make it really shine, I think the biggest hurdle is devs thinking they need to make something unique to take advantage of the gamepad(they dont, I would be happy with just off tv play, rather than nothing ), and also wondering if Nitnendo fans will actually buy their games(we will, if they dont treat the system like some dirty step child)
I will most likely be getting a ps4 down the road, but with my living situation off tv play is a godsend, and I would at least like the option to play any multiplat on the gamepad. Also I wont be getting a ps4 probably at least a year or so after launch, so I want a place to play these games regardless.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
I know the Wii u is going to have a shit tonne of games I am going to enjoy and I know these type of games will never fly with the dudebro crowd. Thats cool with me.
I know I'll be grabbing one of the other two consoles and having two similar machines would be a waste.
I know I'll be grabbing one of the other two consoles and having two similar machines would be a waste.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I would say with clairvoyant certainty that third party publishers will rinse, repeat, cycle the last generation. Meaning the high profile third party releases will be PS4/720. The Wii U will continue to hold on to Monster Hunter and Dragon Warrior, for the sole reason that the franchises thrive exlusively in Japan. Any major international project from Kojima Productions, Square, Team Ninja, Tango Gameworks, Bethesda, Rockstar, etc, etc, will premiere for you know who.
I think Nintendo is absolutely going to be pidgeonholed into a more niche userbase this generation. I wouldn't have said that last June.
I think Nintendo is absolutely going to be pidgeonholed into a more niche userbase this generation. I wouldn't have said that last June.
Acquiescence
Member
The way I see it is simple. The Wii U is supposedly a next gen console, meaning that right now it's got a whole generation all to itself. This is the time where it should be shining, by reaping the rewards of being the first out of the gate with zero competition, but it's not - it's floundering like a motherfucker. As soon as that PS4 and 720 are out, it's going to fare even worse.
PapaJustify
Member
Well, first of all I own every console there is as of late. Secondly, I agree with most of your points, but you ignored the fact that I was critizing the bad user experience on the Wii U rather than the more or less inferior specs. It was part of the deal that the Wii U won't be on par with the PS4 and the next Xbox in terms of raw power, but that doesn't mean that Nintendo also has to neglect also the developments and progress that has happend since the introduction of HD and Smartphone in terms of usability.
One could criticise Sony's slow servers (although I find the speed acceptable), but Nintendos download and installation speeds are just shameful in 2013. Nintendo's online and user management system is also pretty much behind and I provided a few other examples before.
Okay first of all, the majority of the Killzone demo was real-time but the opening scene is definitely not that impressive. I'm about to show you the paltry geometry shown in the city right before actual, rendered gameplay begins (and the picture is big enough so that you won't use blindness as an excuse):
Now, I think Killzone looks amazing too but the cutscene before the guy lands clearly looked different from what we seen on the conference (which it was there but not in this screen here).
Now pertaining to the controller, the Wii U gamepad still makes all other known next gen controllers looks like a joke. The only advantage the PS4 controller has is analog triggers. The advantages for the Wii U gamepad? NFC reader, camera, microphone, stereo speakers, 480p touch screen, infrared bar for WiiMote compatibility, latency tech, and a superior d-pad. The PS4 controller is a joke in comparison because it hasn't progressed enough to compete imo.
the Wii U can co esixt with the ps4 or the next xbox because its different. Just like wii with the ps3 and 360.
The Wii U will hit its stride when games come trickling in. The thing just came out extremely too early.
This shitty feeling about the system was the same with the original ds and the 3ds. Shit change quick.
The Wii U will hit its stride when games come trickling in. The thing just came out extremely too early.
This shitty feeling about the system was the same with the original ds and the 3ds. Shit change quick.
tablet games on wii u? humph.
Wii U is an amazing little console. I'd be worried if it wasn't, but the GamePad is not a gimmick. Off TV is a major, major feature.
By the time competition launches, Wii U will be mature and close to Nintendo's vision with a faster system and a refined Miiverse.
Lack of new games in Q1 is hurting sales, but the end of the drought is near. I have absolutely no doubt Nintendo games in HD will turn heads.
So most Wii U problems will be fixed in the short term.
One remains though, and not the smallest: price is too high. Nintendo needs to stop trying to be profitable from 1st console + game transaction, and embrace the razor model a la MS and Sony. Console + Nintendo Land must be $250. Then the console will start selling like it should, with spikes each time a Nintendo exclusive releases. Sacrifice first year profits is a move they will have to concede.
I was more thinking of x360/PS3/Wii U games developped with future tablet ports in mind.
for that to happen, Wii U has to start selling like crazy and soon enough. For Wii U, best thing would be for PS3/360 to stay alive for at least 4 years. That way it will get some 3rd party games guaranteed.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Wait, wait, wait, wait, you thing THAT is CGI? Jesus wept you have been using Nintendo consoles for too long. Oh and nice one on passing judgment on a pad you've never used. The only pad that's a joke is the one that actually ask players to look away from the large TV screen. How's that for solving a problem that no one had.
Zombie James
Banned
Someone thinks the Killzone demo is CG? Yikes. It's not like the geometry on those buildings is overly complex or anything.
Oh shit lol, I ment to say that it was real time but not 'omg 100x the Wii U' as people were claiming
. Will edit. Also I own an Xbox 360 and game on the PC so calm down with the generalizations.megabytecr
Member
Graphics whore confirmed. Look it is ok to have great looking games, I have a Wii U and will get something else also for that itch, but it is not everything.
Just to pass on great game experiences because of graphics is just silly.
And I have said this a million times, Wii U graphics will be pretty to look at, even if PS4 looks better. It will not be the same as with the Wii even if the leap is big, because Wii U games will look good and will be HD. In the past with the Wii the difference was very obvious and even then it did not matter.
And LOL even Nintendo recognizes the lack of software, they are not even marketing the thing yet.
I'm not sure what you mean, can you elaborate on specifics? I think the UI for the Wii U is pretty good. Simple and to the point without much clutter. What we saw of the PS4 looked like a mess. It looked more like a crowded desktop with things here there and everywhere.
The Wii U OS does obviously have issues (Load times being a big one) and I expect Sony to do much better in that regard, but I can't say I feel like the Wii U is behind. It's doesn't and is not trying to look like a lifestyle device (i.e. black), it's trying to look light, cute and inviting.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
The fuck? It's not CGI. The geometry looks like shit up close because you're zooming in on a 4k bullshot. You're not going to notice that when you're playing the game because you're going to be viewing the buildings from a much further distance and not with a fucking magnifying glass.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
So now you've backpedaled from saying it looks too good to be true, to saying it doesn't look that impressive? Oh man.Check out my edited post, I rushed the post and made a few mistakes
Fact is, if you zoom in close enough on anything in a video game, it's going to look like shit at some point. It doesn't make the opening city shot in Killzone any less impressive.
yeah, I agree the UI is very easy to understand, and having it be completely touch, and or buttons, makes it very quick to navigate. The easiest to use and navigate out of all current gen imo.
However, some things could be much quicker. The speed of accessing stuff for me has been about on par or maybe slightly faster than the other current gen consoles. Which is a tad disappointing for new tech.
Except the settings menu, that thing takes forever.
But I was really hoping Nintendo was going to do what Sony is planning, especially with their goal of having the gamepad be the center of the living room and something you always want to use, like TVii, etc. And it s low power draw to boot. But it takes to long to boot up and there is no sleep mode like every other electronic device today. A huge missed opportunity if you ask me.
Hopefully some updates can alleviate at least some of this. But I am not holding my breath.
And we still need to see how PS4s promises pan out.
Absolutely. I mean, the launch Wii U games (Zombi U, Mario) just don't look like they run on new hardware, whereas Killzone Shadow Fall, Deep Down, inFamous: Second Son, etc all do.
The Wii-U controller is such a different beast than other controllers, but if you insist on comparing them you're going to fall flat there. The battery life, "joysticks", 1-2 max connected, and other factors hold the gamepad back far from making other controllers look like a joke, especially the DS4.
The Wii-U gamepad itself is sort of becoming a joke, I'm afriad.
Currently, I think Nintendo's in the worst spot right now.
I think it's important to realize that there's really three ways Nintendo can go with the Wii U:
1st. Absolute failure, loses them money and they give up on it. I don't see that happening.
2nd. Makes enough money for Nintendo through first party game sales that they keep it going and hard core Nintendo fans will be happy, those who have some love for certain Nintendo franchises but aren't total fanboys will consider this a failure despite Nintendo making money and the system surviving for several years. I think this is most likely right now.
3rd. Does great numbers and has great first and third party support to the point many feel it can be their only console. I don't see that happening.
I think from a gaming mindset Nintendo's all but doomed to be in third place, I think that both the PS4 and 720(or whatever) will be safe buys as a primary console and that aside from Nintendo's own offering on the Wii U will clearly look to be the better choices.
I said earlier in the thread that I think Nintendo's now in a worse spot than before and that's because of word of mouth. I believe that those who speak real highly of the Wii U were likely to speak highly of the Wii U no matter what Nintendo gave them. I think Nintendo could have repackaged the Wii again and on the promise of a new Mario and Zelda a good deal many who like the Wii U would have been fine with that and would be defending that. I don't mean this as an insult, I love some franchises myself to that degree so I don't mean to say that having a handful of franchises that happen to all be from one developer coming out on one system means it's a must buy for you is wrong, it's not, you're the consumer and you know where your money is better spent than I for your own entertainment it's just that for Nintendo to ever do better than they have been recently they need to sell to more than just you. Don't get me wrong though, I think there's a sizable enough base there for Nintendo to survive for a long time if they have to stay in that place provided their board lets them.
But anyways, back to why I think Nintendo's in a worse spot now than before. I think they had a horribly botched launch. There's no doubt a good deal of people happy with the Wii U but I feel that most of them are what I described above. I myself feel that I'm a more moderate gamer with more varied tastes and to me I can't come to the same conclusion, to me the Wii U is the worst system I've ever owned. There's no doubt in my mind that Nintendo fans will buy the Wii U and will give it good word of mouth that other Nintendo fans will eat up but I think they're getting as much, if not more negative word of mouth from those who bought a Wii U in its half baked state that aren't true Nintendo fans that will be much harder to erase. If you like Nintendo already you were already inclined to give the Wii U a shot, if you're indifferent than negative buzz becomes a lot more important. In otherwords a Nintendo fan's positive opinion means as little to the non-Nintendo fan as a non-Nintendo fan's opinion means to a Nintendo fan.
And what I think is the worst thing about their launch is there's a lot Nintendo can do to turn it around but I don't know if it'll work now as negative buzz is hard to combat. Further, even if they do turn things around HD console games generally take longer to plan and make than your average portable game.
But I do think they could turn it around with a real big relaunch. I think offering cross buy for the Wii U-3DS would be a huge selling point. Who here wouldn't love to play Fire Emblem or Soul Hackers on their TV? Nintendo's already stated that they're going to unify the stores and introduce an account system at some point so this could be doable in the future. That'd be huge. Hell, just removing some of the FUD around their archaic on-line would go a long way. They already want to address the system OS speed, thank God as it's one of the things that makes the system an absolute chore for me to use. Even in the ancient PS3 I can just move right over and see all my friends, no waiting 7 seconds for a crappy app to load to see who's online. I think the whole OS needs an overhaul actually. There's other things they could do that if they did them all at once and essentially relaunched could give it better mind share but even then it'd be hard to get exclusive stuff rolling again but they could improve the situation.
But, frankly, I don't think Nintendo will pull it off and will be a clear third place this generation, I think Nintendo knows what it needs to do as signaled by them combining their portable and console HW and software teams, saying they will move to an account based system and all that jazz but I'm betting on everything falling into place too late and not having a real effect until Nintendo's next console.
I think it's important to realize that there's really three ways Nintendo can go with the Wii U:
1st. Absolute failure, loses them money and they give up on it. I don't see that happening.
2nd. Makes enough money for Nintendo through first party game sales that they keep it going and hard core Nintendo fans will be happy, those who have some love for certain Nintendo franchises but aren't total fanboys will consider this a failure despite Nintendo making money and the system surviving for several years. I think this is most likely right now.
3rd. Does great numbers and has great first and third party support to the point many feel it can be their only console. I don't see that happening.
I think from a gaming mindset Nintendo's all but doomed to be in third place, I think that both the PS4 and 720(or whatever) will be safe buys as a primary console and that aside from Nintendo's own offering on the Wii U will clearly look to be the better choices.
I said earlier in the thread that I think Nintendo's now in a worse spot than before and that's because of word of mouth. I believe that those who speak real highly of the Wii U were likely to speak highly of the Wii U no matter what Nintendo gave them. I think Nintendo could have repackaged the Wii again and on the promise of a new Mario and Zelda a good deal many who like the Wii U would have been fine with that and would be defending that. I don't mean this as an insult, I love some franchises myself to that degree so I don't mean to say that having a handful of franchises that happen to all be from one developer coming out on one system means it's a must buy for you is wrong, it's not, you're the consumer and you know where your money is better spent than I for your own entertainment it's just that for Nintendo to ever do better than they have been recently they need to sell to more than just you. Don't get me wrong though, I think there's a sizable enough base there for Nintendo to survive for a long time if they have to stay in that place provided their board lets them.
But anyways, back to why I think Nintendo's in a worse spot now than before. I think they had a horribly botched launch. There's no doubt a good deal of people happy with the Wii U but I feel that most of them are what I described above. I myself feel that I'm a more moderate gamer with more varied tastes and to me I can't come to the same conclusion, to me the Wii U is the worst system I've ever owned. There's no doubt in my mind that Nintendo fans will buy the Wii U and will give it good word of mouth that other Nintendo fans will eat up but I think they're getting as much, if not more negative word of mouth from those who bought a Wii U in its half baked state that aren't true Nintendo fans that will be much harder to erase. If you like Nintendo already you were already inclined to give the Wii U a shot, if you're indifferent than negative buzz becomes a lot more important. In otherwords a Nintendo fan's positive opinion means as little to the non-Nintendo fan as a non-Nintendo fan's opinion means to a Nintendo fan.
And what I think is the worst thing about their launch is there's a lot Nintendo can do to turn it around but I don't know if it'll work now as negative buzz is hard to combat. Further, even if they do turn things around HD console games generally take longer to plan and make than your average portable game.
But I do think they could turn it around with a real big relaunch. I think offering cross buy for the Wii U-3DS would be a huge selling point. Who here wouldn't love to play Fire Emblem or Soul Hackers on their TV? Nintendo's already stated that they're going to unify the stores and introduce an account system at some point so this could be doable in the future. That'd be huge. Hell, just removing some of the FUD around their archaic on-line would go a long way. They already want to address the system OS speed, thank God as it's one of the things that makes the system an absolute chore for me to use. Even in the ancient PS3 I can just move right over and see all my friends, no waiting 7 seconds for a crappy app to load to see who's online. I think the whole OS needs an overhaul actually. There's other things they could do that if they did them all at once and essentially relaunched could give it better mind share but even then it'd be hard to get exclusive stuff rolling again but they could improve the situation.
But, frankly, I don't think Nintendo will pull it off and will be a clear third place this generation, I think Nintendo knows what it needs to do as signaled by them combining their portable and console HW and software teams, saying they will move to an account based system and all that jazz but I'm betting on everything falling into place too late and not having a real effect until Nintendo's next console.
Wickerbasket
Member
You know, I remember people at the 360 launch saying they didn't see a generational leap either.
I think people tend to wear rose tinted glasses when remembering the previous gen games they played.
It might take a year or two, but I think the leap is going to be very apparent to everyone.
I think people tend to wear rose tinted glasses when remembering the previous gen games they played.
It might take a year or two, but I think the leap is going to be very apparent to everyone.
Who the hell is backpedaling? My edit is what I meant to say. Anyways, the fact the the city is so low poly does make it less impressive to me and debunks the narrative that killzone is x50 increase over the Wii U.