The Wii U in a worse or better shape after the PS4 reveal?
- Thread starter JaxJag
- Start date
TheNatural
My Member!
What competitive advantage? It's no more a competitive advantage than side talking was for the NGage. It's only an advantage if consumers desire it and they don't. It's not like the Wii at all, it's almost the anti Wii in design because it changed simplicity of usage and taking away focus on the controller, to complexity and putting focus directly on the controller.
It wouldn't be another Gamecube, and the Gamecube didn't work not because of it being a system with a controller, but because of limitations on storage media for the second system in a row, unorthodox controller and console design, and burned bridges with third parties from the N64 era that continue today.
Nintendo's competitive advantage is, and always has been, in its first party game design regardless of what controller or gadget it's played on. Their focus should be to get on even ground with competitors in third party support with a decent online system, while being competitive on price, and let their first party stuff shine.
shinra-bansho
Member
Yes to the former. And to the latter, although ymmv on the extent of overlap.
I wouldn't say third party support for the PS3 was great. It was good. You can't ignore that most of the third party games that were multiplatform ran better on the 360 than they did on the PS3.
The point I was making is that it's too early to say anything definitive. Just like how the Vita had a ton of support when it was announced, only to crumble after its release. Heck, we don't even know how the next Xbox will fare in terms of specs and functionality.
Have people learned nothing from the Wii? For most people, even Nintendo's "lame" game graphics are perfectly acceptable.
It's not about graphics. It's about fun.
And price. An area in which WiiU should enjoy a nice advantage.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Nintendo showcases the Gamepad in future games. People mock it now, but I spent some quality time with it for the first time this week and I think it can be a game changer.
It's not about graphics. It's about fun.
And price. An area in which WiiU should enjoy a nice advantage.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Nintendo showcases the Gamepad in future games. People mock it now, but I spent some quality time with it for the first time this week and I think it can be a game changer.
Majmun
Member
Nothing incorrect about my statement.
Sony consoles always had massive support. Their handhelds were a different story.
Nintendo has been struggling with third party support since the N64. But their handhelds got all the love
All I'm saying is that there's no reason for third parties to leave Sony's Ps4. Especially since most of the nextgen games will be made for Ps4 and the Nextbox.
Credit to original translation by Cheesemeister
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46798860&postcount=706
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46798860&postcount=706
Madden 25 is coming. The Witness was announced ages ago. I forgot Murdered and Witcher 3.
There aren't a slew. Find em. Name em. Let us know what's not there.
Killzone Shadow Fall has already defeated their argument.
Their stress was almost palpable, they were secretly hoping that the next-gen consoles wouldn't produce that huge of a graphical leap so the Wii U would not be left in the dust.
Unfortunately for them the leap has happened and it's only the beginning. :/ I have even seen them trying to trick people into thinking Watch Dogs will look "close" on Wii U to what was shown on PC.
A very rude awakening awaits them.
shinra-bansho
Member
I don't think that's what one is generally referring to with regard to "support" per se. The lead SKU was often the 360 version, due to ease of development, development toolchains being better etc. but the support was always there.
There is little doubt that third parties will put their titles on the PS4 (and 720). I.e. the kind of doubt that currently shrouds the Wii U.
megabytecr
Member
Well at present time PS4 is a promise. I am looking forward to it but until then all are promises.
I was blown away by the graphics while being completely bored by the gameplay shown except for WatchDogs.
At the same time I feel great with my Wii U as while watching the conference I thought how different nintendo and sony are, and I can get into both proposals just by adding a PC, PS4 or nextbox. All good.
I was blown away by the graphics while being completely bored by the gameplay shown except for WatchDogs.
At the same time I feel great with my Wii U as while watching the conference I thought how different nintendo and sony are, and I can get into both proposals just by adding a PC, PS4 or nextbox. All good.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Sonys consoles have always had good support. The PSP (50% of their so far released handhelds) also had good support.
Despite being notoriously poor for software sales, partially due to widespread casual piracy and partially due to it being marketed as a portable media device.
How is implying Sony handhelds do not get good third party support, when at least half of them had excellent third party support, and excellent support in a climate where that support was not worth the development costs not an incorrect statement?
walking fiend
Member
And to those who will find out none of the helishots of KZ4 were rendered in real time.
I don't get this line of thinking. With this, why would you even play any multiplats on a console at all? Clearly the results will be superior on gaming PCs, with the Wii U being equivalent to the lowest settings (if it gets the ports) and the other 8th gen consoles being equivalent to a medium-high and high setting. Why not put some Ultra94 in your car instead of crowing how much better 91 octane gas is in comparison to 87?
Believe it or not, not all Wii u owners are obsessed with the graphical leap of other consoles. Ffs I own a Wii u and will own a ps4 or next xbox but all I'm concerned about is what games are coming to the Wii u. How games look on other consoles in relation doesn't matter to me.
The demo was confirmed to be real time IIRC. And that looked fucking astonishing, where have you read otherwise ?
The game will run at 1080p resolution by the way, now that's next fucking gen right here. The Wii U is several leagues under and this will be interesting to see how things pan out for Nintendo, they hyped their "asymetrical" bullshit to hell and back as if this is going to warrant complete 3rd party support. I have nothing against Nintendo, I want them to exist but it's disingenuous to claim that the system won't struggle to remain relevant.
The gamepad is a complete joke and the Wii U has nothing on the PS4/720.
Some people are not interested at all in PC gaming so consoles are their primary gaming machine, and consequently the quality of 3rd parties ports matters a lot.
I don't get this analogy at all. The fact that ports will still look better on PC does not mitigate the current status of the Wii U, a sizeable part of the gaming audience knows jackshit about PC gaming and its benefits/drawbacks and does not care. However they will care about another console with "drastically" better looking multiplats. Nintendo's 1st party output is unlikely to make them forget about that.
The Wii survived because of its unique gimmick, what is left now ? The gamepad is a complete joke.
Not all ? Yeah sure. But many of them are still eager to see what a reasonably powerful hardware can do, you want proof ? Take a look at previous Wii U speculation threads where you would get torned apart for merely suggesting that the consoles wouldn't necessarily run current gen games at 1080p/30fps....Nintendo diehards were literally jumping at your throat and mocking you and their thirst for visuals was blatant.
The hangover must have been very rude.
Ffs I own a Wii u and will own a ps4 or next xbox but all I'm concerned about is what games are coming to the Wii u. How games look on other consoles in relation doesn't matter to me. [/QUOTE]
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
you'd have thought people would have learnt from the last time Killzone and an Evolution studios racing game footage were used to 'prove' graphical capabilities.
EDIT:
Wow, meltdown initiating
Single console owners often tend to fall into this contradiction.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I remember reading that most people used Wii Fit once or twice and then stopped using it, I believe this information came from Nintendo and they got the info from the Wii activity log.
If that's true then people gave up on Wii Fit right after they bought it.
shinra-bansho
Member
When was a Wii U SKU of Madden 25 announced? Link.
Grand Theft Auto V. Dark Souls 2. Remember Me. Lightning Returns. The Wii U was revealed 20 months ago. It would frankly be easier and shorter to list games that have been announced since then that do have Wii U SKUs.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
Uh, yeah?
The PS3 was primarily competing with the 360, but it was still competing with the Wii. It's a similar scenario with the PS4 and Wii U, except I'd say that they're competing with each other more now that Nintendo is targeting the hardcore gaming market more than the were with the Wii.
Tell me, if the Wii U isn't competing against the PS4, what is competing against?
Released. Not revealed.
walking fiend
Member
As I said, a rude awakening awaits you
Just try to understand that current PCs are more powerful than PS4, also apparent in the downgrade of the UE4 tech demo; don't you think it's fishy that we haven't seen anything similar to those helishots running in real time, even as a tech demo, on PC? That all those helishots were scripted? If they were rendered in real time, why were they scripted? Sony was trying to held back that amazing experience?
I wonder when people will understand they are not on gametrailers doing system wars?
Majmun
Member
Psp's third party support wasn't all that great. The platform was flooded with Ps2 ports. Even the GTA games weren't really new. The PSP never got the support a Sony console received.
The DS was also vastly superior when it came to support.
All I'm saying is that comparing Vita with the Ps4 is silly. I don't see one reasonable scenario where the Ps4 will end up like the Vita (or the Wii U) when it comes to support.
shinra-bansho
Member
You should re-read the post of mine that you quoted.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I think most people bought the Wii for the motion controls, Wii Sports and playing Mario Kart with the steering wheel. What is the WiiU offering these people?
H_Prestige
Banned
Source on this?
TAS
Member
Are you arguing that the Wii U version is not superior? Because the developers themselves have confirmed that it is...
Chinpoko_Master
Member
Or for those who find out they were?
Oh man, this is kinda what I've been talking about. If even a Gaffer, that is, someone that I would typically consider more educated in the ways of the industry and its advances, can't tell the difference between these shots than what hope does an average gamer have?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Western third party support for the PSP was far greater than the equivalent for the DS.
The GTA games were later ported to the PS2, how was that not 'new' entries?
A disparity made even more obvious given the install base of the two.
shinra-bansho
Member
I asked earlier but, besides the GTA games, what exactly was so great about the PSP's Western 3rd party support?
I would say, rather, that Western third party support for handhelds in general wasn't very good for either system. They are essentially the gaming ghetto.
I would say, rather, that Western third party support for handhelds in general wasn't very good for either system. They are essentially the gaming ghetto.
Oppo
Member
No, I said that comparison shot didn't make any sense, since it was taken at very clearly different in-game times of day, leading to different lighting conditions.
The reflection in the water with the bump map could be visible on the PS3/360 versions at that time of day. It's a meaningless comparison. The Wii U version could well be better but that shot doesn't show anything.
Off the top of my head, two very good God of War games, and two very good Wipeout games.shinra-bansho said:
walking fiend
Member
Source to confirm that it was? iirc, KZ2 demo 'was' confirmed to be real time and yet it wasn't
As far as I am concerned, all signs point to it not being:
- Scripted and no free navigation
- Not seen before even on PC
Uh - you said a slew - and you listed 4 that it isn't even true for. Then you said released. I did read your posts. You aren't reading mine apparently.
I've said this a few times but PS4 will have decent support because 3rd parties pretty much need all the userbase they can get and it shouldn't be a hard port since everything now is x86. By decent I mean parity with everything else. Exclusives outside of timed and DLC are pretty dead. In fact new-gen userbases will be sufficiently small that not supporting 360/PS3 isn't an option in the next couple years.
Vita is dying because Nintendo killed it's Japanese third party hitters and the west doesn't develop for handhelds. Sony won't put their best teams on it (not that their best has that much power anyway) and so that's it.
3DS western third party support is also non-existent. The usual suspects: Renegade Kid, 5th Cell and Way Forward are really the only ones actively developing non-shovelware. These were pretty much the only ones on DS too, it's not actually a change. Perhaps one area Nintendo is failing is the games that bring in new people. More new expanded IPs are necessary.
Wii had even worse graphical issues and was always third party interest lacking (they only supported it because Nintendo's games built the userbase). It's important to realize how little that effect actually was. It died when Nintendo dropped support to focus on 3DS. Wii U has those same opportunities. One bandwagon game is all it will take (it's all it should take for anyone to tip the scales). I'd also imagine since Sony has pretty much stepped out of the expanded audience arena Nintendo will be the only one really pushing those boundaries (maybe MS, we'll see) and as we know the rewards there are huge.
Where Nintendo can bolster third parties is in Japan. PS3 is the last thing in the way of total dominance. If Nintendo can find the game to surge Wii U sales that might be it for Sony, total mindshare collapse. PS4 so far is overly pandering to the west much like Vita so it could land with a thud.
Vita is dying because Nintendo killed it's Japanese third party hitters and the west doesn't develop for handhelds. Sony won't put their best teams on it (not that their best has that much power anyway) and so that's it.
3DS western third party support is also non-existent. The usual suspects: Renegade Kid, 5th Cell and Way Forward are really the only ones actively developing non-shovelware. These were pretty much the only ones on DS too, it's not actually a change. Perhaps one area Nintendo is failing is the games that bring in new people. More new expanded IPs are necessary.
Wii had even worse graphical issues and was always third party interest lacking (they only supported it because Nintendo's games built the userbase). It's important to realize how little that effect actually was. It died when Nintendo dropped support to focus on 3DS. Wii U has those same opportunities. One bandwagon game is all it will take (it's all it should take for anyone to tip the scales). I'd also imagine since Sony has pretty much stepped out of the expanded audience arena Nintendo will be the only one really pushing those boundaries (maybe MS, we'll see) and as we know the rewards there are huge.
Where Nintendo can bolster third parties is in Japan. PS3 is the last thing in the way of total dominance. If Nintendo can find the game to surge Wii U sales that might be it for Sony, total mindshare collapse. PS4 so far is overly pandering to the west much like Vita so it could land with a thud.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
The PSP had an unprecedented amount of western third party support.
Far in excess of what its marketshare would suggest it should get.
And even further into excess based on actual software sales.
EDIT:
That screenshot clearly also shows some tesselation effects on the brickwork textures of the walls.
shinra-bansho
Member
First party games...
gg. I even requoted and bolded the relevant part of the fucking post.
Here it's even underlined now.
walking fiend
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYz2UHdqtvs&feature=youtu.be&t=3m50s
But honestly, it is OBVIOUS that PS4 is MUCH more powerful than Wii U; but the question is that will it matter when they are deciding whether to port a game or not, specially considering how scalable their new engines are?
Graphical capability really hasn't been much an important factor, just look at the plethora of games not ported to PC.
They weren't 3rd party -_-
Billy Big Bollocks
Banned
The Killzone demo looked amazing during the on rails sections but once the bomb went off and the action started a grey fog descended and you couldn't see more then 20 foot away. It was a nice trick though.
Did Sony show any local multiplayer games?
Did Sony show any local multiplayer games?
Wasn't The Witnessed announced to be possibly coming to WiiU just yesterday. albeit after PS4
Why yes it was.
nothing official though.
H_Prestige
Banned
It's real time. Get over it.
Lol. So you did change what I asked for.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
So Jimmy Fallon was pretending to play it? Fuck, you're on to something, let me get my tin foil hat out.
Majmun
Member
He asked for third party support...
Why are you just mentioning the Western support? Both handhelds received mediocre western support...
And the PSP GTA games were basically the Ps2 games with new story and extra options. They weren't really entirely new GTA games.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Well, I don't think it was in a good position before the PS4 was unveiled. And I don't imagine Sony and Microsoft stealing media and gamer attention will help them at all. I think some people are hoping that we'll see some type of Wii 2.0 type of response, and it's already past the time. Newer and flashier things that will probably not be that much more expensive are on the horizon.
I imagine it would be very hard to justify as Wii U purchase in November 2013, with all the Xbox and Sony hype in full force. Especially if they can release consoles for sub $500 USD.
Also I'd take in consideration the lack of support the Wii saw for the final 2-3 years. I mean honestly, it got dropped. Yeah, there was Xenosaga. But compared to what the other consoles that released at the same time or before were offering, it felt like the Wii lost any type of support a long time ago. Something that consumers don't forget. Nobody want to pay $400 for something they'll only really use for a year.
I imagine it would be very hard to justify as Wii U purchase in November 2013, with all the Xbox and Sony hype in full force. Especially if they can release consoles for sub $500 USD.
Also I'd take in consideration the lack of support the Wii saw for the final 2-3 years. I mean honestly, it got dropped. Yeah, there was Xenosaga. But compared to what the other consoles that released at the same time or before were offering, it felt like the Wii lost any type of support a long time ago. Something that consumers don't forget. Nobody want to pay $400 for something they'll only really use for a year.
walking fiend
Member
Fortunately, I am not stupid. EVERY sign points to it not being real time, and you say it was; lol, gimme a break.
... did you read my previous posts? It's specifically about helishots section; the only parts that looked impressive and not just an upgrade
And you will have every right to make fun of me if the final game is downgraded but I'm confident this is what this Killzone really looks like, it was not CGI or target render crap. I'm not a Killzone fan by any stretch but my next-gen fix will make me buy this game.As I said, a rude awakening awaits you
I know that high-end PC hardware is already a step above the PS4 specs but that hardly matters at this point, multiplats will probably look better on a GTX680 I'm not disputing that but as far as bleeding edge technology is concerned the PS4 is shaping up to be a monster. The Elemental demo definitely looks worse on the PS4 I will give you that but that does not diminish the fact that the Wii U is miles behind and this will have an impact on the reception of the console. Nintendo was "doubtful" of the next-gen leap in a desperate attempt to damage control the Wii U's specs....That says a lot.
We are comparing consoles that are supposed to share a non negligible part of their library. How is that wrong ? You think that gamers won't care for the discrepancy between the Wii U and the next-gen systems ?
You are the only one trying to downplay what has been shown, your bias really shows. Why don't you just accept this truth ? There's no point in arguing that all we've seen is smoke and mirrors, this is just a next-gen system playing a early demo of a next-gen game.
I know how you feel but you have to let it go, I've said that there was no place for the Wii U in another thread and I apologize for that. I was wrong, the Wii U has every right to exist but don't be surprised if it gets shafted more often that some would think.
Downporting is not easy task.
Oppo
Member
You asked for western support, I didn't understand there was another qualifier.
It is evident to anyone with working eyeballs that what you wrote there isn't true. We can all see the video.