The Wii U in a worse or better shape after the PS4 reveal?

I'm saying this as a huge Nintendo fan (see I have a Bowser avatar that proves it).

OoT -> WW -> TP -> SS - is essentially the same 4 games in a different setting. Why do you think people are always bitching that Zelda needs to change?
SM64 -> SMS - Is essentially a map pack for Mario 64 with a dumb water backpack add-on.
If you describe everything in such basic terms, then you can argue that every sequel is essentially the same as its predecessor. Every game in a series is basically the same (and apparently frowned upon?). I could literally say that every first-person shooter is the same game with different maps and guns. But that would be unfair.

I think that there is more variation in Mario (Not the New series) and Zelda games than there are in other franchises.
 
900K for Other. 830K Japan iirc.
Cool! So shipped (vs sold) for launch versus previous HD console launches in their debut quarters:

Wii U (2012)
North America: 1.3m (890k US sold)
Japan: 830k (640k sold)
Other: 900k (430k EU sold)

PlayStation 3 (2006)
North America + Japan + HK: 1.7m (690k US + 470k JP sold)

Xbox 360 (2005)
North America: 900k (620k US sold)
EMEA: 500k
Japan: 100k (95k sold)
 
I've been seeing this a lot lately and it usually comes from Nintendo fans, for obvious reasons. But why wasn't this the attitude when Nintendo was releasing new games from their big franchises from NES to SNES to N64 to GC and they were mostly just graphical updates with some small gameplay tweaks here and there? I guess it is just a coincidence that now that Nintendo has decided to adopt a different strategy with new consoles that the old standard is all of a sudden unacceptable.

Ummm.... Nintendo has long undergone a very specific cycle of innovation followed by refinement and the innovations are what kept many of us coming back to them.

NES: scrolling games and standardization of the D-Pad (innovation)
SNES: graphic upgrades and more buttons for wider gameplay styles (refinement)
N64: true 3D gameplay and standardization of analog control inputs (innovation)
GCN: graphic upgrades and optimization of analog controller (refinement)
Wii: standardization of motion controls (innovation)

If anything, Nintendo's still following the same strategy it always has, with the only difference being that the market changed and they felt it unwise to gamble on the graphics when there were already 2 competitors doing that. Gambling on innovation AND having a graphics upgrade became unsustainable to them.

So please take your fanboy finger-pointing elsewhere, thanks.
 
Ummm.... Nintendo has long undergone a very specific cycle of innovation followed by refinement and the innovations are what kept many of us coming back to them.

NES: scrolling games and standardization of the D-Pad (innovation)
SNES: graphic upgrades and more buttons for wider gameplay styles (refinement)
N64: true 3D gameplay and standardization of analog control inputs (innovation)
GCN: graphic upgrades and optimization of analog controller (refinement)
Wii: standardization of motion controls (innovation)

If anything, Nintendo's still following the same strategy it always has, with the only difference being that the market changed and they felt it unwise to gamble on the graphics when there were already 2 competitors doing that. Gambling on innovation AND having a graphics upgrade became unsustainable to them.

So please take your fanboy finger-pointing elsewhere, thanks.

Your list only supports what I was saying. The pre-Wii console updates pretty much boil down to better graphics or small controller changes to accommodate those better graphics. My point, however, was that it seems to be a convenient coincidence that Nintendo fans, mostly, just happened to become fatigued of standard controllers and standard console updates that focused on graphics right when Nintendo said "Hey everyone, this is the Wii and if you want to play our games you better like our new philosophies regarding motion controllers and console horsepower."

Obviously I can only assume, but I have a feeling that lo an behold those things wouldn't have gotten stale had Nintendo stuck to a traditional approach.
 
Your list only supports what I was saying. The pre-Wii console updates pretty much boil down to better graphics or small controller changes to accommodate those better graphics. My point, however, was that it seems to be a convenient coincidence that Nintendo fans, mostly, just happened to become fatigued of standard controllers and standard console updates that focused on graphics right when Nintendo said "Hey everyone, this is the Wii and if you want to play our games you better like our new philosophies regarding motion controllers and console horsepower."

Obviously I can only assume, but I have a feeling that lo an behold those things wouldn't have gotten stale had Nintendo stuck to a traditional approach.

And I could say that unicorns are real.

I think it's more likely, given the amount of people on NeoGAF alone who say they're "done with Nintendo" are the people who cared about the graphics updates only that Nintendo previously offered to its franchises. Whoever is left are likely the ones who appreciated everything else Nintendo brought to the table beyond that. Many of which never EVER stated that they were tired of the way games have played, but, like every 10 years, they were ready and willing to try something new.

... oh wait, I'm sorry, did you call having the 1st truly 3D game in modern gaming a "small controller change"?

Oops, sorry, I thought I was debating someone with a serious opinion instead of a troll. My mistake.
 
the gc fell off a cliff after its pretty good launch (although it was vastly overshadowed by halo at its launch too) and never recovered.

nintendo really needs to get their shit together not to fall into that pit.
Totally agreed there. Nintendo needs to do some thoughtful price cutting/SKU reshuffling timed with the spring software launches to push U out of Gamecube territory. It's sad, but it really is like 3DS all over again.
 
Whoever is left are likely the ones who appreciated everything else Nintendo brought to the table beyond that.

The results from this generation will provide a better picture on who is actually left since soccer moms and the like that made the Wii such a huge hit seemed to have moved on.

... oh wait, I'm sorry, did you call having the 1st truly 3D game in modern gaming a "small controller change"?

Oops, sorry, I thought I was debating someone with a serious opinion instead of a troll. My mistake.

But again, it was a change made as a result of their old horsepower pushing philosophy. And when I said small change I meant relative to what the Wii did. I guess we can consider it a huge revolution though, but let us then not forget about the revolution that the addition of the second analog stick was!
 
A casual gamer friend asked me if WiiU had a new "Wii tennis" . I said no Wii sports yet and so she is not interested.

It got me thinking how would an online capable Wii sports do? With much improved graphics , deeper gameplay ,Miiverse integration, motion plus remote based controls , gamepad for miiverse / second screen or off screen play.

Could be what the Wii really needs.
 
Your list only supports what I was saying. The pre-Wii console updates pretty much boil down to better graphics or small controller changes to accommodate those better graphics. My point, however, was that it seems to be a convenient coincidence that Nintendo fans, mostly, just happened to become fatigued of standard controllers and standard console updates that focused on graphics right when Nintendo said "Hey everyone, this is the Wii and if you want to play our games you better like our new philosophies regarding motion controllers and console horsepower."

Obviously I can only assume, but I have a feeling that lo an behold those things wouldn't have gotten stale had Nintendo stuck to a traditional approach.

wow i must have been playing in a dream. your saying that all zeldas are really the same just different graphics. lol so killzone 4 is different from 3. both shooters. lol also the wii u outsold the 360 and ps3 combined over the first 6 weeks of launch of all 3 consoles. every thing took a dive after xmas in sales. economy is horrible. starting to realize how many blind fanboys are on gaf
 
If you describe everything in such basic terms, then you can argue that every sequel is essentially the same as its predecessor. Every game in a series is basically the same (and apparently frowned upon?). I could literally say that every first-person shooter is the same game with different maps and guns. But that would be unfair.

I think that there is more variation in Mario (Not the New series) and Zelda games than there are in other franchises.

That was kind of the point. People who say "don't care about fps #4235345345 zzzzz" boil those games down into simplistic terms as well. Double standards for things you don't like vs things you do like basically.

Also, IMO there have been plenty of franchises that have had as much variation in them as Mario and Zelda have in the last decade. Its not fair to compare franchises that are ~10 years old to franchises that have been around since the 80s though, of course Mario and Zelda are going to look like they've had more variation if you look at their entire timeline since those other franchises never had to transition from 2D -> 3D.
 
Don't think that offscreen play would be an appealing feature for WiiSports. That's definitely a game you'd want to play with motion controls and local mutiplayer.

But I don't know if WiiSports U would do much. The original was something new and refreshing. And most people I know lost interest in the game quite fast. That's my anecdotal input. Same with WiiFit.
 
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I'll let you guys play console fanboys, I'll play and enjoy both
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One important thing that people need to remember when looking at these two gifs is that the Zelda demo isn't a graphics demo, it's a dynamic lighting and shadows demo. It uses GameCube assets unless I'm remembering incorrectly..? Probably better to compare and contrast the Japanese Garden demo instead.

As for the topic at hand I'd say that Nintendo are in a better position now than they were when Sony only had 4GB of GDDR5 under the hood. A really daft decision and one that Sony is going to regret. Seems they still haven't learnt any lessons from the PSP, PS3 and Vita. Releasing a high powered and expensive console isn't the best way to success, even if we weren't in the middle of the worst recession in donkeys years. And Sony aren't exactly in the best position to sell each console at a huge loss either.

Nintendo won't be too bothered, all they need to do is release the delayed titles like Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wii Fit and then release two or three of their big guns such as a 3D Mario, Retro's new game and/or Mario Kart in November. They probably won't even need a price cut, but if they reduce the price of the Wii U by 50 dollars you could end up seeing the PS4 being almost twice as expensive as the Wii U.

Sony's Gaming Division is the only part of the company that's making them any profit (unless I'm mistaken?), if the PS4 performs as badly as the PS3 did when it launched and Vitas continue to sell as poorly they could be looking at a very bleak future. :o(

Microsoft must be laughing hysterically about the choice of RAM for the PS4.
 
Don't think that offscreen play would be an appealing feature for WiiSports. That's definitely a game you'd want to play with motion controls and local mutiplayer.

But I don't know if WiiSports U would do much. The original was something new and refreshing. And most people I know lost interest in the game quite fast. That's my anecdotal input. Same with WiiFit.

It would be an easy million seller and would appeal to the type that was really only interested in Wii Sports (and there were a lot of them), in that sense it could only drive sales. I do agree offscreen play is not the way to go with Wii Sports though. If anything they could go the peripheral route if they have any interest in upgrading the Wii Remote from it's current form otherwise just integrating the Gamepad's motion could lead to interesting things like the E3 2011 concept real. If done well it could again be a system seller.
 
It would be an easy million seller and would appeal to the type that was really only interested in Wii Sports (and there were a lot of them), in that sense it could only drive sales. I do agree offscreen play is not the way to go with Wii Sports though. If anything they could go the peripheral route if they have any interest in upgrading the Wii Remote from it's current form otherwise just integrating the Gamepad's motion could lead to interesting things like the E3 2011 concept real. If done well it could again be a system seller.

It's gotta be coming, e3 2013?
 
every thing took a dive after xmas in sales. economy is horrible. starting to realize how many blind fanboys are on gaf

The sales of everything decline after Christmas. But 57k is a bit more than your standard decline. Go look up what the 360/PS3 did in their first January. And don't forget that the 360, at least, was supply constrained as well.

It isn't just your standard dive, it is off the high dive and directly into the pavement. Time will tell if they can recover...
 
Totally agreed there. Nintendo needs to do some thoughtful price cutting/SKU reshuffling timed with the spring software launches to push U out of Gamecube territory. It's sad, but it really is like 3DS all over again.
I don't think it's a simple analogy to the 3DS.

The 3DS was priced high at launch; the Wii U is apparently sold at negative margins making price slashing less feasible.

The 3DS, after a huge price slash and confirmation of the migration of key titles like MH from the PlayStation handheld line, has essentially managed to consolidate the entirety of the handheld market.

I don't think the Wii U can do the same even with an (unrealistic at this point I think) $100 price slash. There's still too much strength in the networked service and back-catalog ecosystems built by the PS3 and 360. There's still too much strength going forward in terms of third party support of these soon to be legacy platforms. There's still too much uncertainty around support for the platform from other publishers.
 
It's gotta be coming, e3 2013?

I think they could show it since it'll probably be the next project for those finishing Nintendoland. I doubt it'd be ready by this year unless Iwata really cranked up the timetables (and probably not in any good way) though.
 
The sales of everything decline after Christmas. But 57k is a bit more than your standard decline. Go look up what the 360/PS3 did in their first January. And don't forget that the 360, at least, was supply constrained as well.

It isn't just your standard dive, it is off the high dive and directly into the pavement. Time will tell if they can recover...

Posters on GAF often forget that as low as the PS3 did during its tumultous times (599 US DOLLARS!), it never ever hit 57k in the US monthly NPD. Never. Even more so during that exact timeline after the console got released.
 
I don't think it's a simple analogy to the 3DS.

The 3DS was priced high at launch; the Wii U is apparently sold at negative margins making price slashing less feasible.

The 3DS, after a huge price slash and confirmation of the migration of key titles like MH from the PlayStation handheld line, has essentially managed to consolidate the entirety of the handheld market.

I don't think the Wii U can do the same even with an (unrealistic at this point I think) $100 price slash. There's still too much strength in the networked service and back-catalog ecosystems built by the PS3 and 360. There's still too much strength going forward in terms of third party support of these soon to be legacy platforms. There's still too much uncertainty around support for the platform from other publishers.
It's not an exact repeat, but there are clear and obvious parallels (generally seen as overpriced, 1st party hardware driver delays, barren post launch drought, sales dropping off a cliff after launch, word of devs scaling back support, etc). And to turn the ship around I think it's going to take similar bold moves on Iwata's part in the short term (price drops, 3rd party moneyhats, co-production/outsourcing to make 1st party deadlines), and it really needs to be done sooner rather than later.

If Nintendo tries to ride things out as is until fall, Wii U is going to be Vita'd.
 
Also, IMO there have been plenty of franchises that have had as much variation in them as Mario and Zelda have in the last decade. Its not fair to compare franchises that are ~10 years old to franchises that have been around since the 80s though, of course Mario and Zelda are going to look like they've had more variation if you look at their entire timeline since those other franchises never had to transition from 2D -> 3D.

If we look at it from a different perspective, we can also conclude that, since Nintendo's franchises are so old, they can appear to be getting stale in comparison to newer franchises. In any case, I think it's telling when we have to guess what the next Zelda will look like. I suppose you can say, "Well, that's just graphics," but Zelda tends to vary a lot in that department.
 
It's not an exact repeat, but there are clear and obvious parallels (generally seen as overpriced, 1st party hardware driver delays, barren post launch drought, sales dropping off a cliff after launch, word of devs scaling back support, etc). And to turn the ship around I think it's going to take similar bold moves on Iwata's part in the short term (price drops, 3rd party moneyhats, co-production/outsourcing to make 1st party deadlines), and it really needs to be done sooner rather than later.

If Nintendo tries to ride things out as is until fall, Wii U is going to be Vita'd.

There are parallels sure but the WiiU's situation is much poorer in all of those areas than the 3ds ever was.
 
I wouldn't say that, at least their coming 1st party Wii U lineup looks stronger than 3DS did in 2011.

I don't really think so, we got 3dland, MK7, A zelda remake for the 3ds in that time. Thats pretty much what the lineup is for WiiU except also we aready have a 2d mario and nintendo land.

3ds also had dogs/cats, brain training, starfox port and this is all within 10 months since it was an early 2011 release, some of the announced WiiU lineup might not make it into the first 12 months of the systems life even when they do hit in holiday 2013.
 
Here's the PS3's NPD sales performance during 2007:

January: 244k
February: 127k
March: 130k
April: 82k lowest point
May: 82k
June: 98.5k
July: 159k
August: 130.6k
September: 119.4k
October: 121k
November: 466k
December: 797.6k highest point
 
One important thing that people need to remember when looking at these two gifs is that the Zelda demo isn't a graphics demo, it's a dynamic lighting and shadows demo. It uses GameCube assets unless I'm remembering incorrectly..? Probably better to compare and contrast the Japanese Garden demo instead.

As for the topic at hand I'd say that Nintendo are in a better position now than they were when Sony only had 4GB of GDDR5 under the hood. A really daft decision and one that Sony is going to regret. Seems they still haven't learnt any lessons from the PSP, PS3 and Vita. Releasing a high powered and expensive console isn't the best way to success, even if we weren't in the middle of the worst recession in donkeys years. And Sony aren't exactly in the best position to sell each console at a huge loss either.

Nintendo won't be too bothered, all they need to do is release the delayed titles like Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wii Fit and then release two or three of their big guns such as a 3D Mario, Retro's new game and/or Mario Kart in November. They probably won't even need a price cut, but if they reduce the price of the Wii U by 50 dollars you could end up seeing the PS4 being almost twice as expensive as the Wii U.

Sony's Gaming Division is the only part of the company that's making them any profit (unless I'm mistaken?), if the PS4 performs as badly as the PS3 did when it launched and Vitas continue to sell as poorly they could be looking at a very bleak future. :o(

Microsoft must be laughing hysterically about the choice of RAM for the PS4.

I very much agree with this. Like many have pointed out, no console since the SNES was the best selling and the most powerful. PS1, PS2, Wii were all the least powerful in their generation but came out on top in sales by a wide margin.

The Wii U is going to have some amazing looking exclusives and all with a price that could be nearly half the amount of a PS4 at the end of this year, not mention Nintendo's casual gamer appeal with Wii Fit, Wii Sports and the many well known franchises that also appeal to the casual. It's hard to see casual, mass market customers picking up a PS4 this year at a price that will surely be too expensive for them.

The PS4 is going to have some very nice looking games no doubt, but it might be isolating it's user base just like what happened the first few years of the PS3 in having the most expensive console on the market: http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/12/sonys-ps3-a-sinking-ship-sales-plummet-sne
 
I don't really think so, we got 3dland, MK7, A zelda remake for the 3ds in that time. Thats pretty much what the lineup is for WiiU except also we aready have a 2d mario and nintendo land.

3ds also had dogs/cats, brain training, starfox port and this is all within 10 months since it was an early 2011 release, some of the announced WiiU lineup might not make it into the first 12 months of the systems life even when they do hit in holiday 2013.
Brain-Age was summer 2012 in Japan, Q1 2013 elsewhere. Wii U also has Lego GTA, Pikmin 3, Yoshi, Wii Fit/Party, Wonderful 101, Game & Wario and possibly Bayonetta 2, a Retro game and (for Japan) X. There's definitely a fuller, more diverse potential lineup on the table for Wii U than 3DS had. Plus, as you pointed out, it's two launch titles (NSMBU, N-Land) were a bigger deal than what 3DS had (Nintencats, Pilotwings, Steel Diver).

edit: And actually hardware's not all that far off ltd:

NPD (3 months ltd)
Wii U: 954k
3DS: 694k

Enterbrain (11 weeks ltd)
3DS: 877k
Wii U: 792k
 
The transition from 2D to 3D in there, sure. But can you please describe the gigantic gameplay changes between SMB3 and SMW?

Wtf?

There are pretty fundamental changes between SMB3 and SMW.
Why is this even being stated like SMW is an expansion pack or some shit?
Have you actually played either of these games?

Fully traversible overworld, multiple paths, multiple level exits as integral design (not 'warp zone' alternates), in level inventory, yoshi, free flight mechanic, alternate jump mechanics between regular jumps and spin jumps, switch block level modification, wall running.

These are some pretty fucking major alternate mechanics to add to the mix, beyond any aesthetic improvements from 8bit to 16bit.
 
It's not an exact repeat, but there are clear and obvious parallels (generally seen as overpriced, 1st party hardware driver delays, barren post launch drought, sales dropping off a cliff after launch, word of devs scaling back support, etc). And to turn the ship around I think it's going to take similar bold moves on Iwata's part in the short term (price drops, 3rd party moneyhats, co-production/outsourcing to make 1st party deadlines), and it really needs to be done sooner rather than later.

If Nintendo tries to ride things out as is until fall, Wii U is going to be Vita'd.
There are parallels that can be drawn; but the actions that can be taken and the consequently the resultant outcome don't necessarily follow.

The 3DS could see its price slashed significantly. This is much less likely for the Wii U. And even with a severe price slash...

The 3DS managed to net a key third party franchise(s) that provided consumers with confidence to migrate and consolidate onto the platform. I'm not sure what Nintendo could actually do in this regard. I don't think there's any way they could actually consolidate the (Western) home console market around their platform in the same way they've managed to do so with the handheld market. That isn't to say they can't see some sort of turnaround - but the "look at what happened with 3DS" mantra seems to imply a similar degree of success as the 3DS is currently enjoying (at least in Japan).
 
There are parallels sure but the WiiU's situation is much poorer in all of those areas than the 3ds ever was.

3DS was in god awful shape until the holiday, much worse than the Wii U was during the respective time period. at least the WU has had a successful holiday.
 
Using the PSP/Vita in examples of why power doesn't pay off ignores the fact that Nintendo dominates the handheld space in a way that really isn't comparable to anything else. And if anything, the power of those systems can be looked at as a postive that allowed them to carve out a little piece of the pie for themselves, even if it were a small one relative to the DS. The PSP wasn't exactly game.com'd.

And the PS3 had far more problems that led to a decline compared to the PS1/PS2 than simply their philosophy to go with more horsepower. High price due to wanting to get things like a blu-ray drive inside, proprietary parts, etc...

Also, while the Wii may have beat the other two on an individual sales level, the HD twins combined sold more than the Wii. That should at least show that their is room for both.

Finally, the comparisons between the 3DS and the WiiU can continue to be made, but just keep in mind the correlation of success between the GBC/N64 and the GBA/GC before acting like they're the exact same markets.
 
As for the topic at hand I'd say that Nintendo are in a better position now than they were when Sony only had 4GB of GDDR5 under the hood. A really daft decision and one that Sony is going to regret. Seems they still haven't learnt any lessons from the PSP, PS3 and Vita. Releasing a high powered and expensive console isn't the best way to success, even if we weren't in the middle of the worst recession in donkeys years. And Sony aren't exactly in the best position to sell each console at a huge loss either.

I'd call 70+ million units a pretty good install base, and this time they should have more sensibly priced console as far as BOM goes. If they can get to profitability fast and sell another 70+ million that's not too bad IMO.

This is unfortunately the thing Nintendo doesn't quite get. They think power and success are mutually exclusive.
 
One important thing that people need to remember when looking at these two gifs is that the Zelda demo isn't a graphics demo, it's a dynamic lighting and shadows demo. It uses GameCube assets unless I'm remembering incorrectly..? Probably better to compare and contrast the Japanese Garden demo instead.

As for the topic at hand I'd say that Nintendo are in a better position now than they were when Sony only had 4GB of GDDR5 under the hood. A really daft decision and one that Sony is going to regret. Seems they still haven't learnt any lessons from the PSP, PS3 and Vita. Releasing a high powered and expensive console isn't the best way to success, even if we weren't in the middle of the worst recession in donkeys years. And Sony aren't exactly in the best position to sell each console at a huge loss either.

Nintendo won't be too bothered, all they need to do is release the delayed titles like Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3, Lego City Undercover, Wii Fit and then release two or three of their big guns such as a 3D Mario, Retro's new game and/or Mario Kart in November. They probably won't even need a price cut, but if they reduce the price of the Wii U by 50 dollars you could end up seeing the PS4 being almost twice as expensive as the Wii U.

Sony's Gaming Division is the only part of the company that's making them any profit (unless I'm mistaken?), if the PS4 performs as badly as the PS3 did when it launched and Vitas continue to sell as poorly they could be looking at a very bleak future. :o(

Microsoft must be laughing hysterically about the choice of RAM for the PS4.

How much does the ps4 cost?
 
Sony's Gaming Division is the only part of the company that's making them any profit (unless I'm mistaken?), if the PS4 performs as badly as the PS3 did when it launched and Vitas continue to sell as poorly they could be looking at a very bleak future. :o(

Microsoft must be laughing hysterically about the choice of RAM for the PS4.

While plenty of other folks seem to tip-toe around the issue, you have nailed it.

The loss-leader business model doesn't have a very good history. In fact, the downsides to it can be particularly disastrous.

So I'm guessing that Nintendo breathed a sigh of relief when Sony revealed their intent for PS4, given the pricing predicament that their chosen power path places them in. Indeed.. if PS4 incurs incredible losses that Sony as a whole cannot endure, Nintendo would end-up having Japan all to themselves, reinforcing their financial stability for some time to come.
 
3DS was in god awful shape until the holiday, much worse than the Wii U was during the respective time period. at least the WU has had a successful holiday.
I don't think the 3DS not getting the advantage of a holiday launch equates to the Wii U doing better. The 3DS never sunk to the lows we're currently seeing for the Wii U (~11K/week Japan, US); at its lowest iirc it was selling about twice as much at least.
 
3DS was in god awful shape until the holiday, much worse than the Wii U was during the respective time period. at least the WU has had a successful holiday.

thats a poor comparison because the 3ds didn't launch during the holiday. There is no real respective period yet but the WiiU's first non launch period non holiday months will be lower by a large margin than the 3ds's
 
I don't think the 3DS not getting the advantage of a holiday launch equates to the Wii U doing better. The 3DS never sunk to the lows we're currently seeing for the Wii U (~11K/week Japan, US); at its lowest iirc it was selling about twice as much at least.

i didn't mean that. i meant that at least the Wii U has a positive going for it - a successful Holiday. 3DS had nothing during it's launch period until the price drop. the other problems - support dropping (megaman legends anyone?), delays, drought (far worse on 3DS, it is only just recently recovering - Wii U looks like it'll be fine by this holiday), sales dropping (worse in Wii U, but still bad in both situations).

thats a poor comparison because the 3ds didn't launch during the holiday. There is no real respective period yet but the WiiU's first non launch period non holiday months will be lower by a large margin than the 3ds's

i'm not comparing them directly. i'm just saying the Wii U had a positive during it's launch period - hence the "at least" - unlike the 3DS which had nothing at all going for it.
 
There are parallels that can be drawn; but the actions that can be taken and the consequently the resultant outcome don't necessarily follow.

The 3DS could see its price slashed significantly. This is much less likely for the Wii U. And even with a severe price slash...

The 3DS managed to net a key third party franchise(s) that provided consumers with confidence to migrate and consolidate onto the platform. I'm not sure what Nintendo could actually do in this regard. I don't think there's any way they could actually consolidate the (Western) home console market around their platform in the same way they've managed to do so with the handheld market. That isn't to say they can't see some sort of turnaround - but the "look at what happened with 3DS" mantra seems to imply a similar degree of success as the 3DS is currently enjoying (at least in Japan).
Well, I'm not suggesting an identical response either, just a similarly dramatic one. Nintendo not only needs to change the sales themselves, but the narrative going with them. Timing played a big part in that for 3DS (in one day Nintendo shifted Vita from contender to overpriced), they'll need to do something similar for Wii U this spring.

And even foregoing a real price slash, they can do an effective one via bundling and SKU reshuffling rather easily. For example, kill the Basic model and bundle both NSMBU and NLand as eShop vouchers with the Deluxe for $299 and you have a pretty compelling package price wise for consumers (essentially a $110 drop value wise) without eating it on manufacturing. Nintendo really has a bit more room here than you're giving them.

For 3rd party fare, I tend to agree, but the software reversal was really overwhelmingly 1st party driven all the same. MH3G was pretty much the lone significant 3rd party driver, and it came a couple weeks before the year ended. Meanwhile 1st party wise, Wii U's coming year looks like it'll most likely be stronger than 3DS 2011 was. Nintendo's not going to get 3rd parties on board Wii U to the same degree or as easily, but I still think they have already improved on 3DS in some areas there too (eShop indies, western multiplatform). The nature of the platforms themselves seems to be steering a lot of that.
 
I don't think the 3DS not getting the advantage of a holiday launch equates to the Wii U doing better. The 3DS never sunk to the lows we're currently seeing for the Wii U (~11K/week Japan, US); at its lowest iirc it was selling about twice as much at least.

thats a poor comparison because the 3ds didn't launch during the holiday. There is no real respective period yet but the WiiU's first non launch period non holiday months will be lower by a large margin than the 3ds's
Likewise, 3DS didn't have a post holiday drop either though. For NPD, Wii's 57k came after doing 890k in 5 weeks. The holiday pushed U launch higher upfront, but it also directly led to a more severe decline following it. It sort of works both ways.
 
It is interesting to see how well late gen Wii U games will look.

Here's the bird tech demo from E3 2011 running on a weaker Wii U dev kit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7074loO1lBA

So I think Nintendo should show a realistic game that pushes the Wii U to see how well it compares to PS4 launch games.

Can someone with gif skills post the Deep Down and Japanese Garden demos side by side please..? As I mentioned above it's a bit daft to compare Deep Down with Zelda because it was purely a dynamic lighting and shadows demo and used GameCube assets with no AA.

Thanks in advance!
 
Can someone with gif skills post the Deep Down and Japanese Garden demos side by side please..? As I mentioned above it's a bit daft to compare Deep Down with Zelda because it was purely a dynamic lighting and shadows demo and used GameCube assets with no AA.

Thanks in advance!

There's no direct feed of the bird demo anywhere
 
I think it's more or less the same situation. Nintendo tried to avoid Sony-Microsoft competition and Sony tried to not repeat PSP-DS and Vita-3DS competition. So, it's almost the same. In fact, I think there's a lot of people interested in Wii U that is not interested in PS4 and viceversa. And there's a lot of people that plan to buy both consoles. But I don't think many people changed their mind after 2/20.
 
One important thing that people need to remember when looking at these two gifs is that the Zelda demo isn't a graphics demo, it's a dynamic lighting and shadows demo. It uses GameCube assets unless I'm remembering incorrectly..? Probably better to compare and contrast the Japanese Garden demo instead.

As for the topic at hand I'd say that Nintendo are in a better position now than they were when Sony only had 4GB of GDDR5 under the hood. A really daft decision and one that Sony is going to regret. Seems they still haven't learnt any lessons from the PSP, PS3 and Vita. Releasing a high powered and expensive console isn't the best way to success, even if we weren't in the middle of the worst recession in donkeys years. And Sony aren't exactly in the best position to sell each console at a huge loss either.

Microsoft must be laughing hysterically about the choice of RAM for the PS4.

This is the craziest amount of spin and damage control I've seen in a GAF thread.
You seem so obsessed with graphics, but at the same time somehow Sony going for extremely powerful specs is a bad thing? And don't forget that a WiiU with 8GB HD is selling for $300. If you want 32GB that will set you back $370. Not exactly cheap either.
 
How much does the ps4 cost?

No idea, but one thing is for certain, it isn't going to be less than $400 now that we know that they decided to squeeze 8GB of GDDR5 into the thing. My guesstimate would be $499.99, and they'd still make a loss on each unit sold. They're not in a financial position to cover the losses of that sort of hardware retailing for $399.99.

People are thinking the Wii U is performing badly now, the PS4 is going to be in an even worse position this time next year. The PS3 may have an installed userbase of 70m now, but it was performing pretty badly until Sony saw sense and reduced the price to a sensible level. There were even a few months when the GBA outsold it. :oO
 
I think it's more or less the same situation. Nintendo tried to avoid Sony-Microsoft competition and Sony tried to not repeat PSP-DS and Vita-3DS competition. So, it's almost the same. In fact, I think there's a lot of people interested in Wii U that is not interested in PS4 and viceversa. And there's a lot of people that plan to buy both consoles. But I don't think many people changed their mind after 2/20.

I would say that the presentation on 2/20 made up a few minds about the PS4.
 
This is the craziest amount of spin and damage control I've seen in a GAF thread.
You seem so obsessed with graphics, but at the same time somehow Sony going for extremely powerful specs is a bad thing? And don't forget that a WiiU with 8GB HD is selling for $300. If you want 32GB that will set you back $370. Not exactly cheap either.

you really picked through his message to find something to disagree with, lol. his overall message seems to be about Sony going too far, not that it isn't important to try to make good graphics at all.
 
And even foregoing a real price slash, they can do an effective one via bundling and SKU reshuffling rather easily. For example, kill the Basic model and bundle both NSMBU and NLand as eShop vouchers with the Deluxe for $299 and you have a pretty compelling package price wise for consumers (essentially a $110 drop value wise) without eating it on manufacturing. Nintendo really has a bit more room here than you're giving them.
Wouldn't that amount to a $50 price cut on an already negative margin, while simultaneously eliminating a source of revenue (probably ~$25 or so per unit?) by giving away NSMBU. They'd also need to clear that Basic stock somehow as well.

I just don't see Nintendo wanting to go further into the red per unit - but I guess they may have to. They already launched a (crappy) "value-added" salvo with the Zombi U bundle iirc.
For 3rd party fare, I tend to agree, but the software reversal was really overwhelmingly 1st party driven all the same. MH3G was pretty much the lone significant 3rd party driver, and it came a couple weeks before the year ended. Meanwhile 1st party wise, Wii U's coming year looks like it'll most likely be stronger than 3DS 2011 was. Nintendo's not going to get 3rd parties on board Wii U to the same degree or as easily, but I still think they have already improved on 3DS in some areas there too (eShop indies, western multiplatform). The nature of the platforms themselves seems to be steering a lot of that.
I think the announcement of both MH3G and MH4 coming to the platform essentially reassured consumers that the 3DS was the place to be for that sort of support. And I still see third party being the driver of success; regardless of the strength of Nintendo when it comes to first party.*

*Unless some sort of Wii Sports/Brain Training phenomenon takes off. I feel like this caveat is sort of unnecessary though - since if it does it will essentially be an unpredictable turn of events.
You're pulling numbers out of your ass in terms of costing.
 
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