CoD “has almost ruined a generation of shooter players” - Tripwire

D

Dave Meltzer

Banned
Pretty interesting article over at PC GAMER.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/

On the flip side, I’m really discouraged by the current state of multiplayer shooters. I think that, and I hate to mention names, because it sounds like ‘I’m just jealous of their success,’ but I’m really, I feel like Call of Duty has almost ruined a generation of FPS players. I know that’s a bold statement, but I won’t just throw stones without backing it up.
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It’s the gameplay mechanics that they become used to. The way that players instantly accelerate when they move, they don’t build up speed. “The weapons really don’t have a lot of power” [in RO2]. They’re all very weak. The way they handle… They’re like: “I hate Red Orchestra, I can’t play it.” Well, why? “Because the guy doesn’t move like he does in Call of Duty. Call of Duty has great movement.” Why is it great? “Because it just is, I just like the way it works.” So you don’t like the momentum system in Red Orchestra? “Yeah, it sucks, it’s clunky, it’s terrible.” Well, why? “It’s just because I’m used to this.”
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Almost every element boiled down to “it doesn’t feel like Call of Duty.” And really, watching some of these guys play… one of the things that Call of Duty does, and it’s smart business, to a degree, is they compress the skill gap. And the way you compress the skill gap as a designer is you add a whole bunch of randomness. A whole bunch of weaponry that doesn’t require any skill to get kills. Random spawns, massive cone fire on your weapons. Lots of devices that can get kills with zero skill at all, and you know, it’s kind of smart to compress your skill gap to a degree. You don’t want the elite players to destroy the new players so bad that new players can never get into the game and enjoy it. I’m looking at you, Dota. [laughs] Sorry.
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You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says “I got a kill!” They’ve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guys—I see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and they’re like “This game’s just too hardcore. I’m awesome at Call of Duty, so there’s something wrong with your game. Because I’m not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. I’m not the problem, it’s your game.”
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I will not post any more content from PC GAMER. I encourage you to visit pcgamer.com and give them page views and advertising revenue in exchange for conducting an interview.

Do you think Call of Duty has ruined a generation of FPS players?

DRJPzh9.jpg


"Yes"
 
Dave Meltzer said:
Pretty interesting article over at PC GAMER.

I will not post any more content from PC GAMER. I encourage you to visit pcgamer.com and give them page views and advertising revenue in exchange for conducting an interview.

Do you think Call of Duty has ruined a generation of FPS players?
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It, and halo, ruined a generation of FPS games. But RO2 being fucking broken at launch did not help Tripwire.
 
Yknow ya could've posted a link to the article.

That being said, I have no doubt this is the case. It's dumbed down the genre considerably.
 
RO2 was always more about luck than skill, because a bolt-action rifle is going to kill you in one shot 99% of the time.
 
I don't think it ruined anything. Call of Duty reached an entirely new audience that wouldn't have played any other game. You can't assume that these player would have played something like RO or ARMA.
 
Deadbeat said:
The piece of shit they released ruined my wallet. I still want my money back for RO 2.
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I've gotten WAY more enjoyment out of RO2 than most of the COD's as of late (exception would be COD4 and BLOPS1)

Since when is RO2 not a good shooter? Well, apart from the buggy launch.
 
Interview link

EDIT - Ahh too late :P


Red Orchestra 2 has thankfully been improved a lot from when it first released, it's much more fun to play nowadays. I must admit though that I don't really play the base game too much, waiting for their Pacific DLC which should be good.
 
Yeah, I really don't like how most multiplayer games take their cues from COD. I hate what COD multiplayer has become after COD4, and killstreaks are quite possibly the worst thing to happen to gaming this generation.

Why can't we go back to old school multiplayer where everyone starts with the same guns and you don't have to grind for XP and unlocks?
 
Is this the same Tripwire that deliberately released an incomplete, broken game and lied to their customers by calling it release worthy?

Okay then.
 
endresults said:
They were ruined from Halo already.
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nope, Halo was it's own thing that existed in it's own world, massive yes but still limited, I suppose that had mostly to do with the fact that it was exclusive

COD on the other hand spread through this generation of fps like a fucking cancer
 
People don't like change. News at 11.

But yeah CoD being so crazy popular means that people naturally will be averse to things that are different to it and will likely stunt the amount of diversity in the genre.
 
I thought he was going to complain about the death of arena shooters. It sounds like FPSes have been ruined for him since Wolf 3D.
 
Red Orchestra 1 is much better than the 2nd one, feels a lot more fluid and polished, maps are better, RO2 disappointed me and my friends extensively.
 
To be more specific, the success of Call of Duty and Halo ruined a generation of shooter players. I can like and enjoy what mechanics these games offer without having them replicated and parroted ad nauseum until I'm more or less just fatigued with most of the genre.
 
I'll stick with bf3 for vehicles and CSGO for skill based fps! I loved ro2 but it doesn't have much staying power for me, compared to old school gunplay ala CS.
 
He's basically on-point. I don't actually like any of Tripwire's games, either, but I can at least recognize that they're one of maybe two or three FPS developers that are using an ironsights-based shooter to provide a relatively realistic sort of FPS that requires some skill in other ways.

But I don't think there's any arguing that Call of Duty has really played havoc with the entire genre. Most of the people I've run into who don't agree have been playing CoD-alikes for so long that they think CoD's problems are just an intrinsic part of the FPS genre.

The unfortunate thing is, he's also right that the Call of Duty model just makes sense from a business standpoint. Solid, well-designed gameplay is never going to win out over a game designed exclusively to tickle the pleasure zones of your brain, without engaging the parts of you that are involved with learning.
 
I'd agree with them that to an extent, CoD has ruined the market for a ton of FPS shooters.

CoD has became so insanely popular that if you bring out any type of FPS, it will be compared to it and users who are used to kicking ass so easily in CoD that can't adjust to a different style of play always end up saying the game is trash and goes back to CoD because they're so used to it that they can't move on to another shooter unless it has the same controls as CoD.

Halo didn't ruin shit either. They're actually another victim to the CoD sydrome --see Halo 4. Halo 3 was nothing like CoD. You were slow, you took long to die, you need skills to succeed as you climb the rankings... teamwork absolutely necessary. They had to change a few things with Halo 4 because of CoD. That's why we see the ordinance package, the class setups, sprint button. I like H4, but they did what they did because of CoD... let's be honest here. They wanted a piece of that pie and had to change their fork to get it.

CoD is pretty much FPS crack. Everybody can get some! It's awesome at first... then over time you get sick of it but everything else is junk in comparison and although your craving a new FPS experience, what you're really needing is more crack (CoD).... the gamers get their fix again every year and the people not selling crack are left complaining about it and try to make their own crack, but it's not the same.... the only problem with this is that eventually people want meth....

no, i'm not a crackhead nor meth head and nor have i ever tried that junk. :P

This is what happens when something insanely popular comes out. Everyone tries to play copy cat. It's no different than last gen when everybody was making open world this and open world that because GTA games were selling like mad.
 
Tripwire is correct in stating that I like CoD's movement more than RO2's.

Tripwire is also correct in stating that I think that because CoD's movement is 'snappier' while RO2's movement is 'clunkier'.

Tripwire is incorrect in stating that I think that because I'm used to CoD's movement system.

More realistic does absolutely not equal better. In fact, I usually avoid games that have 'being realistic' as a selling point, as they are bound by reality.
 
endresults said:
Halo was the original zero-skill shooter. 'Nades everywhere, banshees and warthogs (if a teammate doesn't blow it up and call you a fag for 'stealing' it from him), etc. etc.
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At least it wasn't random. You were always knew was the same as you. You knew that they didn't have any 'perks' or better gun that they unlocked. That's the problem with Halo 4 at the moment. It added way too much randomness.
 
RO2 is still a broken, poorly optimized piece of shit with a dying community they have zero hope of turning into another cult like Killing Floor. Might want to work on puttin your money where your mouth is by releasing a product that people should rightfully pay for. The hardcore crowd will flock to your game if it is ready, willing and able.

RO2 was one of those things. I'll let him figure out which.
 
endresults said:
Halo was the original zero-skill shooter. 'Nades everywhere, banshees and warthogs and scorpions (if a teammate didn't blow it up and call you a fag for 'stealing' it from him), etc. etc.
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I think your memory of Halo is a bit biased, seeing as how tossing grenades everywhere would quickly run you out and put you at a severe disadvantage.

As for Tripwire, perhaps they never considered the possibility that maybe it is their game and not the player? :P
 
ilnadmy said:
Yeah, I really don't like how most multiplayer games take their cues from COD. I hate what COD multiplayer has become after COD4, and killstreaks are quite possibly the worst thing to happen to gaming this generation.

Why can't we go back to old school multiplayer where everyone starts with the same guns and you don't have to grind for XP and unlocks?
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A. FUCKING. MEN

Not that i really play competitive fps'es anymore, but ill always love stuff like Battlefield Vietnam, Day of Defeat source for their level playing fields and focus on teamwork and skill and not unlocks or killstreaks
 
I agree. Back in the day, the skill ceiling in FPS games was ridiculously high in series like Quake. Call of Duty contains a tiny subset of the gameplay possiblities in Quake. This isn't solely because games have to be easier nowadays in order to attract a larger audience, it's part of the dumbing down of FPS games into something that can be played effectively using a controller rather than a mouse and keyboard.

As an example, PC-focused shooters like Team Fortress 2, a game with roots in Quake, don't have this restriction. I can't do half the things in TF2 on 360 that I can do with a mouse and keyboard on PC. It's a pain to even do rocket jumps, which I do all the time without thinking on PC.

It's kind of ironic then, that the engine that runs Call of Duty is built on top of ID Tech 3.
 
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