Probably been mentioned, but... Do you reckon it is possible that MS could essentially install their own used game market place in their online infrastructure? Similar to auction houses, where people may sell and buy their games, and MS + publishers get a certain cut of the profit.
VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Just like how book/movie/music consumers have been "spoiled", right? The only reason many games publishers cannot accept the existence of a used market is because, unlike every other disposable entertainment medium, they have created a shitty business model where all sales are frontloaded into a couple of weeks and are funded by people with no idea how to manage budgets or pricing and need to gouge the customer at every opportunity.
What incentive is there for this? Who are Microsoft competing with on Xbox to sell content? The kind of competition that will drive down prices will only happen when games aren't bound to consoles and become generic content that plays on any device that meets a standard (like movies, music and books). Right now, once a console manufacturer has you locked into a console, they can price everything digital on there as high as they like because it's not like you can shop around for better prices for content on that system.
Captain Tuttle
Member
I'd bet this is what is going to happen for the Durango and the PS4. It strikes a middle ground.
phosphor112
Banned
No, I'm saying you can't compare their ambitions to another companies. It doesn't work that way.
victimroyalty
Banned
lmao. fuck a kinect and fuck a connection always needed. i'll keep my old systems. bye.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Why do people still trust Sony after they removed backwards compatability? After they removed Linux? After the PSN hack?
Because people want the product
I'm looking for the downside....
Why turn it around? Give them an eye full...
Beer Monkey
Member
No, it can't work without mandatory online activation and neither Sony nor MS are going to give up offline users yet.
Just Ballmer.
pizzapizza64
Member
This sounds really smart; I hope we see it happen.
it would be hilarious if the power brick also had a battery in it "just in case" of a power outage during updates.
Vacation in your living room.
I can see this going bad lol.
The first thing that popped into my mind. This nextgen Xbox can go either way. I think im going to wonder if its watching me though. Sometimes i feel like somebodys waaaatching meeeee. Gonna be halarious making eye to kinect sensor contact just before you plan on doing something bad lol.
Share button straight to youporn lmao
Ninja Moomin
Banned
In one sense though, it will be hilarious if MS does have lesser hardware with odd-seeming choices this time - but let me get one thing 100% clear, I want them to be awesome so Halo is awesome - if they do fuck up massively, the response from Sony fans is going to be amazing.
Lets not forget that during the early years of this gen, "xbots" did their fair share of crowing...
I am getting the popcorn out... either way we get hilarity and awesome new consoles to play on.
GAF - this pre launch period is like christmas fucking eve... start stringing up the lights now!
lol. Johnny five Aliiiiiive!.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
now that would be really interesting... sell on your disc and both MS and publishers get a cut... and the whole thing is managed through the dash?
BlastProcessing
Member
People are so crazy! I mean what could have happened between the launch of the 360 and now that could in anyway change peoples views on the matter?
batman2million
Member
I keep wondering how this is going to affect people who are unaware of all these details?
Would they still buy it knowing these things?
Would they still buy it knowing these things?
I like the sound of being able to buy a retail disc and install it then not need the disc anymore
Ideal situation for me as i dont want to download 15gb plus of data but like hte idea of discless play
Which bit? Always online doesnt mean it has to be online, kinect is included in the bundle aparrently so wont it be obvious? Pretty much every ps3 game requires an install..
Not having to put a dsc in to play a retail bough game post install sounds great to me
Ideal situation for me as i dont want to download 15gb plus of data but like hte idea of discless play
Which bit? Always online doesnt mean it has to be online, kinect is included in the bundle aparrently so wont it be obvious? Pretty much every ps3 game requires an install..
Not having to put a dsc in to play a retail bough game post install sounds great to me
Almost. I was picturing a situation, where discs are essentially install discs and would have no reasonable value after you have entered your game-code and registered it on your account. Then these codes could be actively traded between customers in a MS-monitored market place that would be eerily similar to a digital e-bay.
Neuromancer
Member
Word. And it's not about the corporate policies or consoles themselves really. For me the games are all that matters. So I might dislike this particular set of features (always on my ass), but if there are games I'm really interested in, I'll buy it. I never bought a 360, by the way.
Realistically, how long would it take download let's a 15GB or 20GB game? I downloaded the original Gears of War last night (it came with GoW: Judgment) and that was a 6.5GB game and it took me about 40 minutes to down load it. I live the Chicago Suburban area and my ISP is Comcast.
Xenon
Member
Nah, no company will ever become that out of touch with the market again. Sony's problem is they always see to be back-filling their promises. The PS3 eventually became a great machine but it's first couple years were pretty rough. I think the fact that they seemed more concerned with having bullet points to match their competition was a huge contributing factor to this. Their online plans and Move announcements where very rough and lacked the focus MS came out the gate with. They are without a doubt the "me too" company of this generation.
I think the Feb announcement was an improvement from the previous ones for a number of reasons. Coming out of the gate with the 8GB announcement was a homerun. Just like a comedian opening with a good joke to prime the audience, Sony had everyone right where they wanted them. Then having the architect of the PS4 discuss his vision kept the emotional levels high. I personally hate the direction they are going with the social features, but I respect how well they were presented. But even with all that I still have a feeling they are trying to figure things out and not sure if it will all come together well when the system is released.
I don't see MS having this problem. Say what you will about Kinect, but Microsoft's support for that peripheral is in a completely different league than Sony has done with anything they have released, maybe even their systems themselves. That was the big difference between MS and all the competitors in the video game industry when they came in. MS is an expert at supporting their products. (Insert OS joke here) But make no mistake the only reason the PS3 is easy to develop for and there is a focus beyond just playing games is the fact that they did not have a choice if they wanted to compete with MS this generation.
Im not saying MS can't fuck things up, but there is no way they will release a "PS3"
It's worth remembering that smartphones and tablets are also "always online" devices - that work just fine if that connection isn't available. I'm HOPING that's what's going on here, it just goes into a tablet-esque sleep mode that it'll snap right out of, and will keep an online connection in case something gets pushed. If they seriously go for always online as in "this system is a brick if you don't have an active internet connection" then yeah, it'd be a nightmare, but the more I think about it the tablet/phone approach just makes more sense.
It's still possible, but it own't be in the same way (no one at Microsoft seems to have the hubris Ken Kuturagi had.) The root cause is generally always the same though: you take your position as market leader or close enough for granted, and go a bit further in what you do.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
Sure as hell does.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
The spirit of the doctrine is violated because the platform holder makes the disk worthless. If Microsoft implements a system where each game has a one use activation code, you'll be physically selling something that can't be used.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I always thought Microsoft would do something like kickstart, where you can fund an indie console game & get video updates on the dash board part where the indie games are..it would be an interesting way to get game developers to develop something new for MS.
Yes. If their vision is to eradicate physical media, then they're going to have to provide a solution for the used game/movie market.
Xbox 360 is anti used games and always online. So there is truth here. Really.
Miles Quaritch
Member
You're assuming that EDGE aren't using this XDK as their source. I believe they are and have simply misunderstood the language used or perhaps something was lost during the relay of information.
The language is identical to the language they used in 2005. Their aim is for a console that is always online, so they can sell you content, subscriptions, etc but has now taken on the new dimension of automatic content delivery and patching and always connected, so you're always gaming/using the console as your primary device in the living room. It's been their ultimate goal since the Xbox.
Hell, I'm sure if you go back to the OG Xbox PR, you'll also find a reference to always online.
Indeed. Something people are wilfully ignoring.
So, you think he's wrong about these billion dollar corporations? In spite of the ridiculous DRM's, the overall changes to mainstream game design that happened over the years as gaming got more and more profitable, DLC nickle and diming, and more specifically, the way Xbox Live is run by Microsoft?
Miles Quaritch
Member
If the documentation is to be believed, you can start playing within minutes of starting to install.
Essentially, you're playing as the game installs. Hopefully this will extend to downloads, I believe Sony are planning this, MS would be short-sighted not to have a similar set up.
I'm sitting on a 30 megabit/sec broadband and it usually takes about an hour to download 10 Gb from Steam. Usually less. The actual speed fluctuates between 2 megabyte/sec and 5 megabyte/sec. Based on what you said, your have a similar connection, so you can use this as a point of reference.
Xenon
Member
Nothing is impossible, but Sony managed to alienate their customers and developers with the release of the PS3 by making a machine that was overpriced and difficult to develop software on.
I don't see that happening with the 720. Most of the valid complaints are not that damaging. Even the ones that are rumored like inability to buy/sell used games have comparable examples of successes like Steam and the App store.
Uno Venova
Banned
Vgleaks said they're other docs out there, and edge said they have multiple sources, since the doc doesn't say it will need online to function edge probably got that from another reliable source.
I'm curious about this. How would it work? Wouldn't that require the data on the disc to be stored in a specific order, in order to launch the game while the rest of the content installed? Does anything do this now? Or would they essentially let you play from disc only as the game installs, then switch over to using the installed version when it's complete?
Just wondering how you could go about playing a game that isn't fully installed. (I'm not sure if anything does this now.)
Miles Quaritch
Member
We'll see. I believe EDGE were told always online, always connected and wrongly believed it meant online required to function. Similarly with the no second hand games, I believe this is simply a case of misunderstanding their intentions.
We'll see though, EDGE have proven to be correct with the PS4 and while I believe they are mostly accurate on the next xbox, some features and their implementation have been misunderstood or relayed without proper context.
I'm interested in how it will work as well. I imagine it would require data to be stored in a specific order. Arkham Asylum installs during gameplay, it's probably similar in execution.
A lot of this is what has been leaked or rumored before.
I can understand mandatory Kinect bothering people, but I don't see the problem with always online/always connected and the required game installs. Unless I missed it, online doesn't seem to be required. Instead if you have online, your system will always be connected to automatically receive updates. TBH I thought the ps4 worked in a similar way.
The requirement to install may just be a way to work around the blu-ray speed issues. This way devs know games will always play from the HDD and optimize with that in mind. The install as you play eliminates most of the inconveniences found with required installs. Not really seeing the big deal here either.
I can understand mandatory Kinect bothering people, but I don't see the problem with always online/always connected and the required game installs. Unless I missed it, online doesn't seem to be required. Instead if you have online, your system will always be connected to automatically receive updates. TBH I thought the ps4 worked in a similar way.
The requirement to install may just be a way to work around the blu-ray speed issues. This way devs know games will always play from the HDD and optimize with that in mind. The install as you play eliminates most of the inconveniences found with required installs. Not really seeing the big deal here either.
Karak
Member
NullPointer
Member
I don't know the details, but while you can play games like Diablo 3 and World of Warcraft while the latest content patches and updates download, you will run into missing textures and the like in the meantime. At least that's been my experience, so I just wait until everything is fully installed before playing.