Absolutely does not apply in this case at all.
Making a system that blocks used games is in no way, shape, or form a violation of the "first sale doctrine" because you can still sell your game to another party.
VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Absolutely does not apply in this case at all.
Making a system that blocks used games is in no way, shape, or form a violation of the "first sale doctrine" because you can still sell your game to another party.
Miles Quaritch
Member
This is funny, I'm sure some will get a kick out of it...
Part of me does kind of want this to happen (and many other things) just to see how things turn out. To satisfy my inner curiosity.
But in the end while I don't buy used games, I do sell them so I hope it doesn't
Xenon
Member
I understand as I mentioned,,,, huge trade in- whore but I often buy new with my trades.
Instead of looking at it like there is no advantage for consumers, we need to look at it for what it really is.
We have been spoiled by getting someone's intellectual property for years in slightly discounted used games without paying the owner because there was no way to stop us. Now we should not be mad that they figured out a way to lock up their property to sell.
I really really hope if they do this that they realize a DD DRM game system would require lower prices and more discounted sales as I may not buy as much new as I do now if I can not subsidize with a trade
I think the original buyer would have to sell the license as well. If you have the physical disc, and the license to play the game, you can't sell the physical disc. Well you can, but the purchaser has no right to a license.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Mandatory installs may speed up loading times but how would you ever see it? I mean, you can't play the game straight from the disc. You know what you will have to worry about now though? With mandatory installs you have to be more concerned about hard disk size and if it's anything like this gen, they will use HDD's to keep the price high.
I am not sure why no disc streaming would be hinting at used games.
statham
Member
nice.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
This is GAF. We'll defend to the death the right of multi billion dollar corporations to take away basic consumer rights in the name of corporate profits!
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Seeing as this thread has turned into a used games debate:
Publishers / IP owners DO make revenue from the second hand market - how many people who buy a used game also go on to buy some DLC?
Isn't that exactly why Sleeping Dogs was on PS Plus right before some new DLC came out?
Publishers / IP owners DO make revenue from the second hand market - how many people who buy a used game also go on to buy some DLC?
Isn't that exactly why Sleeping Dogs was on PS Plus right before some new DLC came out?
Right click, save as.
Explain to me how a "no used games" console actually legally prevents me from selling my game to another party (a violation of the first sale doctrine).
GuitarAtomik
Member
How does that change the context of them saying "always"? Are you saying that Nintendo intended the Wii's online to be mandatory but they weren't competent enough? That's the only reason that would be relevant.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
Looking forward to a new controller for my PC.
What Xbox?
What Xbox?
The first sale doctrine is old as dirt and will be challenged for decisions many more times in the coming years. While some games do well the majority of games do not profit much and may benefit from no used sales
Sales does not =profit and by sustainable I mean having an industry where when you start a development house you can last twenty years, not 3.
BlastProcessing
Member
How, exactly, can you sell your game if it is locked to a console?
(A) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a), unless authorized by the owners of copyright in the sound recording or the owner of copyright in a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), and in the case of a sound recording in the musical works embodied therein, neither the owner of a particular phonorecord nor any person in possession of a particular copy of a computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), may, for the purposes of direct or indirect commercial advantage, dispose of, or authorize the disposal of, the possession of that phonorecord or computer program (including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) by rental, lease, or lending, or by any other act or practice in the nature of rental, lease, or lending. Nothing in the preceding sentence shall apply to the rental, lease, or lending of a phonorecord for nonprofit purposes by a nonprofit library or nonprofit educational institution. The transfer of possession of a lawfully made copy of a computer program by a nonprofit educational institution to another nonprofit educational institution or to faculty, staff, and students does not constitute rental, lease, or lending for direct or indirect commercial purposes under this subsection.
(B) This subsection does not apply to
(i) a computer program which is embodied in a machine or product and which cannot be copied during the ordinary operation or use of the machine or product; or
(ii) a computer program embodied in or used in conjunction with a limited purpose computer that is designed for playing video games and may be designed for other purposes.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/109
This seems pretty clear to me. And even if they do it in the US good luck pulling this off in the EU.
What if you are licensing the game?
Licensing is unclear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc.
This seems to be the most current precedent. But under this ruling it is impossible to ever own software. All software is licensed and therefore is never the property of the user.
Which seems to override this ruling United States v Wise
In WISE the claim was that a film's distribution agreement disallowed resale. This court rejected the claim.
Jonsoncao
Banned
The neverending story. Each gen the same reactions from the same people.
BlastProcessing
Member
First sale was upheld by the supreme court this week.
Activision was started in 1979
EA in 1982
Konami started making games in 1978
Nintendo in 1981
Sega in 1982
Namco in 1978
Take 2 in 1993
Next year will be the 20th anniversary for Playstation.
Those companies have all grown during the age of used games.
Kind of like how people sell Steam accounts I guess.
infinityBCRT
Member
Didn't PSP UMD's have unique codes? And isn't the rumour that PS3 discs have the technology as well (But Sony didn't do anything with it)? I think its possible to do it at this point.
Give people a little more credit. At the very least they're perfectly capable of eating crow.
Hilarious.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I said they were using kinect to take pictures etc to datamine your living room. Nobody was ever talking about selling video footage.
I'm not sure why we can't have a used-game scenario that's similar to how many games operate today:
Buy a used game, but pay an additional fee to play online. This happens with many EA games.
But the new scenario could be:
Buy a used game, but pay an additional fee to play period.
This way, the used-game market isn't killed, but the publisher/developer still get a cut from that used game. It would also potentially drive down used game sales, knowing that an additional fee would be required to play. So Gamestop might make a little less money, but that's better than just killing the entire used-game industry, no?
Buy a used game, but pay an additional fee to play online. This happens with many EA games.
But the new scenario could be:
Buy a used game, but pay an additional fee to play period.
This way, the used-game market isn't killed, but the publisher/developer still get a cut from that used game. It would also potentially drive down used game sales, knowing that an additional fee would be required to play. So Gamestop might make a little less money, but that's better than just killing the entire used-game industry, no?
This is totally normal, PS4 certainly will be the same.
Angelus Errare
Banned
No more weird than MS using DVD or CD...I mean Sony is a patent holder for those two formats as well.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Very appropriate avatar.
Honestly, I'm surprised it wasn't brought up sooner. I know it was nearly 8 years ago, but it's such a specific term that you'd think people would remember it.
I wasn't here when the 360 launched, so I can only assume there wasn't as big of an outcry at the language used last time. Still, pretty funny to see the meltdowns when it's the exact same language they used before the 360 launch.
Still seems odd though, but I suppose as long as you get like a 500gb system, it should be enough. I mean people want to say games are going to be like 50gb next-gen or something, but plenty of PC games that are beyond the capabilities of the PS3 and 360 are not that huge..
Us entitled gamers.
Beer Monkey
Member
I just want to go on the record for future mockery that I believe if you buy a Durango and never, ever connect it to the internet, that you'll still be able to pop discs in it and play single-player games.
I think something like this should still be do-able, at the expense of many of the console's features. They know how many people never connect their system to the internet and they would not want to alienate them. Plenty of countries have awful ISPs and terrible bandwidth limits, I doubt they want to limit who they can sell the system to realistically.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
SCE itself turns 20 this November, so Sony has been in the game even longer.
gaming_noob
Member
You ruined the thread...barely any replies now...
I did not follow any of the 360 rumors back in the day but I could imagine the negative reaction to those.
This is absolute bullshit. Used books, used movies, used CDs/Tapes, etc. have been around forever. Literally, as long as every format has existed in any capacity.
It is how the economics of disposable entertainment works. This WILL backfire if it happens. Used games keep money within the industry at least -- all this will do is make people think of spending their money elsewhere. It's a bad idea and it will lead to catastrophic results.
BradleyLove
Member
My bad. I was thinking of TV blurays but that will be 1080i60. Thanks for the heads up.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'm sorry, I didn't expect it to kill the thread. I was quite enjoying the various posts and arguments, etc.
Those weren't rumours. Check the link, it was the language being used after the 360 was revealed. It's how they view their console, always online, always connected. It started with the Xbox, evolved with the 360 to include a more social aspect and will undoubtedly be evolving again on the next xbox.
I wasn't on gaf during the time but I was on many gaming forums and many people in 2005 were buying into the PS3 hype just on the basis of the PS2 doing so well.
There were many people (as well as articles) stating why the Xbox 360 would be "the next Dreamcast" and stuff like that but I don't remember any outrage about the "always online" statements. Some probably didn't even know what that meant at the time (lol).
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Question... to those that seem to want to believe certain things about Durango, just because they want them to be true.
After windows 8, why do people believe Microsoft will make sensible decisions about what their consumers want?
Surely we have enough proof that MS will make business decisions that aren't in our interest now?
After windows 8, why do people believe Microsoft will make sensible decisions about what their consumers want?
Surely we have enough proof that MS will make business decisions that aren't in our interest now?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Yep, those were my exact experiences on the forums I was posting on at the time. The 360 was looked down upon, Xbox 1.5, etc. PS3 was the real next gen console and then the games were revealed. Goes without saying that the meltdowns were glorious.
Add that plus Final Fantasy XIII, Devil May Cry 4, and Resident Evil 5 going multiplatform for a full on nuclear meltdown. Hilarious times on forums.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Grand Theft Auto day and date with PS3 as well as with exclusive content on 360 was the big one, so many bans being handed out to angry Sony fans who were just completely losing it.
until the reveal and everyone will be like "Sony is Dooomed"
On top of Playstation fighting game fans going nuts about Tekken going multiplatform as well. So funny.
I'm expecting the same amount of crow to be eaten this time around. It's part of the reason why I'm taking a "wait and see" approach. I bought into some of the PS3 hype (especially being someone who loved the PS2) but as soon as I saw the price I said "Oh, HECK no." and got into many debates with PS fanboys about why the system wouldn't do well regardless of it having the PS name.
I even got banned from the official PS forums for disagreeing with an article that said that the PS3 would have the same social impact as the Television.