The reason why America abandoned F1?
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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Cerebral Assassin
Member
TV ratings for tennis in the US basically show that ratings lower considerably when there isn't a credible American player, & given the sports you use as an example(none of which could realistically be called global sports) I would say you are wrong (as does the US Olympic/Paralympic coverage).
yeah, OP meant to call out the rest of the world as ignorant and idiotic and is not talking about an aspect of the sport he dislikes. Clearly that is how Americans feel about F1 and why it is not big here. because "ignorant idiots" follow it.
You really don't need to highlight a word that I already highlighted in my original post.
Then what do you think he's trying to imply with his thread title, huh? Why did he even put "America" in there?
Because to me it sounds like he was trying to justify something. And that something is why his country as a whole is the one that saw right through F1's bullshit and started outright ignoring it. What does that say about the rest of the countries that still care about F1?
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Can someone explain why this is bad? Why would you let the guy win the race on purpose?
F1 I can see not catching on here in the states, but the one thing that always has utterly bewildered me was how WRC or a form of it has never taken off to the big leagues here in the states. I mean you have:
- Loud, awesome sounding, looking cars which are more based on production cars than so-called "Stock Cars" in NASCAR.
- They off-road and on pavement
- They're jumping, they're splashing through mud
- They provide some of the most spectacular wrecks in racing
- The skill cap for great rally drivers and teams is incredibly high
- America has some incredibly varied landscapes to race on
It might be that only Ford really participates in it (lol Dodge Dart rally car), has a couple recognizable Japanese cars, and a bunch of Euro cars people don't recognize by car name and the manufacturer doesn't even sell a single car here. It might be that you'll only see your favorite car/driver once per day (stadium trucks maybe were successful due to this and because pick up trucks). It might be that even us Americans are sane enough to understand self preservation and not want to try and "high-five" the side mirrors on the cars as they blaze by.
There's a lot of support in the amateur leagues here via SCCA and what not, but not to mainstream levels. There are a couple rally driving schools becoming popular though, like Dirt Fish.
- Loud, awesome sounding, looking cars which are more based on production cars than so-called "Stock Cars" in NASCAR.
- They off-road and on pavement
- They're jumping, they're splashing through mud
- They provide some of the most spectacular wrecks in racing
- The skill cap for great rally drivers and teams is incredibly high
- America has some incredibly varied landscapes to race on
It might be that only Ford really participates in it (lol Dodge Dart rally car), has a couple recognizable Japanese cars, and a bunch of Euro cars people don't recognize by car name and the manufacturer doesn't even sell a single car here. It might be that you'll only see your favorite car/driver once per day (stadium trucks maybe were successful due to this and because pick up trucks). It might be that even us Americans are sane enough to understand self preservation and not want to try and "high-five" the side mirrors on the cars as they blaze by.
There's a lot of support in the amateur leagues here via SCCA and what not, but not to mainstream levels. There are a couple rally driving schools becoming popular though, like Dirt Fish.
you are fucking reaching if you interpret a thread title as implying that the rest of the world are ignorant hicks.
pants
Member
No direct racing - time trials
I don't think I am, and I'd love if you could prove me wrong with reasonable arguments. But I do think that your swearing and antagonistic wording are uncalled for in this discussion.
why don't you just ask him them ? How does his post imply the rest of the world is stupid ?
possible reason for American disinterest and apathy in a type of motorsport = rest of the world being idiots for liking it ?
can I just interpret your post as implying that it sticks in your craw that Americans are apathetic about a sport that the rest of the world likes ?
sankt-Antonio
Banned
Rally in the 80s was some outlaw shit.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
Thanks for your contribution and idiotic stereotype. You can leave now.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
tennis is a blue blood rich kid sport in the same tier as golf. majority of the common man (he who would make a sport popular) don't watch that shit in droves so its understandable. And the fact that those aren't global sports are the point , the US has options, and those options that are as apart of American culture as Soccer is to the rest of the world. And those options are better to the US than those of the rest of the world, not being better at it has nothing to do with it
Also the point of the Olympics is nationalism buddy
Wickerbasket
Member
Because he's your team mate and you're on the same team? If it was football, it would be like grabbing the ball off your team mate right before he scored the winning touchdown.
I agree with Brazil. There is no correlation between what happened here and why America abandoned F1. Two facts were stringed together to form a sensationalist thread title.
There was more to it than the simple statement in the OP. Red Bull usually tends to allow the drivers to race at the start of the season, and start giving team orders when only one of their drivers is still realistically eligible to win the Driver's Championship. This time it was different. Red Bull have been having trouble with tyres. They degrade too quickly on their car and as it was explained they were allowed to race to distance themselves until the last pit stop, after which the aim was to stay consistent and keep their tyres in shape to get to the end of the race. Them racing each other could've had many catastrophic effects. For starters watch the replay. They were mere cm away from wiping each other out going from 43 points to the team to 0. Secondly, even the act of racing could've had a catastrophic effect on the tyres causing them to hit the cliff and start losing seconds per lap, allowing the 3rd and 4th place to reach up to them since they had been strong all the race. Thirdly, unlike Nascar, the engines and gearboxes need to used for a number of races and so putting them under unnecessary stress was pointless and stupid.
But that's not why this was a problem and why Vettel needed to apologize.
The fans love when team mates race each other. It makes for a great spectacle and in general all fans are against team orders (I'd argue that maybe Ferrari fans are more accepting of them) because it ruins the fun. The problem is that after the last pit stop there was a team order to the whole team. Not to Webber to let Vettel past or for Vettel to not overtake Webber. The order was, that in the last stint, the race would be off. They had the lead. They were risking their tyres if they raced and the only sensible decision was to keep on going with at a comfortable rate and get to the end line. Webber could've gone faster, but following orders he tuned his car down to preserve it and the tyres. Vettel was given the same instruction and he ignored it. He asked the team to get Webber out of the way, and the team told him no stay put. So he used the advantage after the pits (since Webber had his engine tuned down) and overtook him rather unfairly.
F1 is a long game. You can't think just for this event. Or this qualifying. Or this race. You have to plan it further into the future and in the great scheme of things, for the success of the team. Vettel fucked up. I enjoyed the fight tremendously, and I really like Vettel, but I've lost a lot of respect for him after this and he did right to apologize.
There was more to it than the simple statement in the OP. Red Bull usually tends to allow the drivers to race at the start of the season, and start giving team orders when only one of their drivers is still realistically eligible to win the Driver's Championship. This time it was different. Red Bull have been having trouble with tyres. They degrade too quickly on their car and as it was explained they were allowed to race to distance themselves until the last pit stop, after which the aim was to stay consistent and keep their tyres in shape to get to the end of the race. Them racing each other could've had many catastrophic effects. For starters watch the replay. They were mere cm away from wiping each other out going from 43 points to the team to 0. Secondly, even the act of racing could've had a catastrophic effect on the tyres causing them to hit the cliff and start losing seconds per lap, allowing the 3rd and 4th place to reach up to them since they had been strong all the race. Thirdly, unlike Nascar, the engines and gearboxes need to used for a number of races and so putting them under unnecessary stress was pointless and stupid.
But that's not why this was a problem and why Vettel needed to apologize.
The fans love when team mates race each other. It makes for a great spectacle and in general all fans are against team orders (I'd argue that maybe Ferrari fans are more accepting of them) because it ruins the fun. The problem is that after the last pit stop there was a team order to the whole team. Not to Webber to let Vettel past or for Vettel to not overtake Webber. The order was, that in the last stint, the race would be off. They had the lead. They were risking their tyres if they raced and the only sensible decision was to keep on going with at a comfortable rate and get to the end line. Webber could've gone faster, but following orders he tuned his car down to preserve it and the tyres. Vettel was given the same instruction and he ignored it. He asked the team to get Webber out of the way, and the team told him no stay put. So he used the advantage after the pits (since Webber had his engine tuned down) and overtook him rather unfairly.
F1 is a long game. You can't think just for this event. Or this qualifying. Or this race. You have to plan it further into the future and in the great scheme of things, for the success of the team. Vettel fucked up. I enjoyed the fight tremendously, and I really like Vettel, but I've lost a lot of respect for him after this and he did right to apologize.
You can keep asking the same questions for as long as you want, and that won't change what I think he meant with the thread title. I'm posting in this thread, so if the OP wants to address me, I'd happily read his words.
And no, you cannot. Everyone is free to enjoy whatever they feel like. Not caring about a sport because your nation isn't good at it is not something anyone can criticize. What you can interpret my post as is that I don't like the agenda some of these American posters like to push against these sports they claim being apathetic towards - one that has them basically saying things like "We don't care about this sport because we're the only ones in the world that can see right through it."
Yes, that annoys me.
Wickerbasket
Member
It was a sensationalist title that added nothing to the discussion and had zero relation to the article linked.
Fox news would have been proud.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
So you agree that Americans care more about sports in which an American might have a chance of winning(i.e the exact thing you are arguing against)? The numbers are fairly conclusive, there is a drop of about 2 rating point for a final that has no US participation.
Chicken or Egg?
I guess you are missing the point of the Olympics by a bigger margin than NBC, which is pretty impressive.
i don't see him or the thread title pushing the agenda you claim.
Well, then we just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
RumblingRosco
Member
She looks fine to me weight-wise. I'm not sure what on her indicates she's underweight or malnourished just from that picture.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
so your proof is a niche sport that the VAST majority of the nation don't follow with a 2 percent drop as proof we don't give a fuck about F1 because there's no American there
*I'm on mobile so can someone post the Jennifer Lawrence OK GIF here please*
and I guess I do
off topic but are from England by any chance?
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
But I thought they said there were bonuses and a title for individuals. There is no seperate individual title for winning a football game.
America did not abandon the sport, it just has not become mainstream.
And it's unlikely to become mainstream until a convergence of media and financial interests converge on it. Unfortunately the average american, and the media, only cares about international sports if their countrymen are in winning shape.
What happened this morning has nothing to do on why F1 had a hiatus over here. I can go gather a number of team incidents on every major american sports that sound just about the same. Or worse.
And it's unlikely to become mainstream until a convergence of media and financial interests converge on it. Unfortunately the average american, and the media, only cares about international sports if their countrymen are in winning shape.
What happened this morning has nothing to do on why F1 had a hiatus over here. I can go gather a number of team incidents on every major american sports that sound just about the same. Or worse.
There is a rally car competition in the summer x-games
IISANDERII
Member
But there is for the touchdown.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
The audience roughly doubles when there is an American involved(& tennis was 2-3 times more popular in the 80's when, coincidentally the US had players at the top of the sport) , & given you can't point to any evidence that supports your viewpoint (please name a popular sport in America that doesn't have an American near the top of the sport), I can't really take your argument too seriously.
Yep.
Because its a lousy spectator sport in terms of television. There's no money in it.
In terms of F1 and what happened today, there's two titles at stake - the constructor's and the driver's. Driver's title is mainly nothing but glory. The constructor's standings, though, mean big $$$$$$ for the teams, which is big in such an expensive sport where each team designs and builds their own cars(there are no customer cars). So in Formula 1, drivers are employees of the team first and foremost. Moreso in some teams, Ferrari especially.
So....when you have your drivers running 1st and 2nd, or even 3rd and 4th at the end of the race, its sometimes a good idea to tell them to hold station and bring the cars home with the max haul of points for the team. F1 cars dont take contact well, so even slight contact between two cars can put both of em out of the race and teams dont want to risk that when its sure fire points/$$$$ if they just hold station.
It doesn't happen often these days with the 2011-present rules, but situations do arise where teammate rivalries scare the teams into 'team orders' like this. What happened today was one of those orders that got ignored. And the 'apology' was fake. The team acknowledged after the race he knew exactly what he was doing.
Also, F1 isn't always a 'last lap battle' type of motorsport. Its not like NASCAR or something where there's yellow-flag caution periods all the time closing the field up every 10 minutes with a green-white checker finish every other race. You get to use any pace advantage you have generally, which is how I think it should be.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Well I can't speak for how the world views Americans, but I can see why some members have a similar thought process about you.
not sure if serious...
pants
Member
See thread title
Ford was behind the Jaguar F1 team.
More than just a works team, they would need to put in a proper investment and they would likely have to base themselves in Europe. There's not a lot of homegrown F1 engineering talent here, and we dont have any top-tier drivers(though there's some ok ones), so a good portion of the team would likely be sourced from Europe and cherry-picked from other teams.
In the end, it wouldn't be very 'American'.
Then there's the matter of the abnormal viewing times. How many Americans are going to get up at 2-4AM to watch the Asian/Australian races? Even the main European races come on at 8AM on Sunday. People can DVR it or whatever, but it completely ruins it from becoming a popular, "Hey man, come over and watch the race!" type of sport like NASCAR is.
I dont think F1 will ever be big here. There's too many national/North American sports and motorsports to compete with that are much easier to see and actually have a ton of Americans in there to cheer for. It will continue to be popular enough to have races here and with 300,000,000 people, there's bound to be a decent amount of followers, but in terms of rivaling our other big ones, like NASCAR, NFL, NBA, NBL, no way in hell will it ever happen.
joeygreco1985
Member
What horseshit. Race to win, and if someone else is faster than you then you don't deserve to win. You're not entitled to a win.
You never bother to read threads, or discussions?
Do you watch F1? If you're under the impression that the team has told your teammate to hold place, you dont push hard. If he knew Vettel was going to attack him, he might have upped his pace beforehand to keep him out of reach.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Moto GP has American riders and three (they race at Austin now!) American races and still very few people care about it (it still draws in the crowds at the tracks, but not much else). It has to do more with the television and media support and because the rights are expensive.
F1 is getting more attention in the States because of the Austin GP.
Vettel and Webber had orders planned beforehand to conserves tires and fuel and to hold position. Vettel ignored that and pushed ahead of his teammate. It's more than driver takes all.
F1 is getting more attention in the States because of the Austin GP.
Vettel and Webber had orders planned beforehand to conserves tires and fuel and to hold position. Vettel ignored that and pushed ahead of his teammate. It's more than driver takes all.
VGChampion
Member
There's a lot of people here who either didn't watch the race or just don't know what happened. Oh, and as for American drivers, I don't cheer and rally behind nationalities, I want people I like to win. If an American was unlikable I'm not going to cheer for him just because he's my same nationality.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
Such a shitty thing to do by Vettel. What a prick.
joeygreco1985
Member
That its a team sport and blah blah blah
Seb told his team on the radio that Webber was too slow, plain and simple. Webber should have picked up the pace. If you're leading a race why should you slow it down?
You posted stupid shit.
What happened today is pretty simple: before the race they made an agreement: if we run 1-2 after the last pit stop we don't challenge each other and cruise till the end if it's possible.
Vettel broke that agreement and went for the win, when Mark Webber was assured by the team Vettel wouldn't challenge him and he should put his car into cruise mode. Vettel was told the same and didn't do it, he suckerpunched Webber.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
That happened halfway through the race. And Webber wasn't slower then either.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Conserve tires and fuel and because (supposedly) your teammate has your back to block anyone from passing and because being so aggressive to get to number one, they might crash and screw them both.
cutmeamango
Banned
America abandoned F1 because they can't turn left. Or right.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
LOL.
Should have dropped a circumcision or tipping reference in here. I knew F1 fans were passionate, but I didn't insult anyone's mother.
My intention was not to say "the rest of the world is stupid and ignorant for liking this sport," just that Americans only care about direct, honest, hard competition. If i found out that a team or individual in a sport i liked didnt give it their all each event, i would immediately lose respect for that team or person.
There was a poster above (on mobile, cannot be assed to check) who broke down the why of what happened, and it makes more sense, but still shows a problem with the sport, in my opinion, if drivers are not willing to race all out every race. You might as well turn off what should be the most interesting part of the race, the finish, if teammates are in the lead.
Btw, MLS is second only to MLB in attendance per game on America. To say that Americans hate soccer is more naive than my OP. Americans just aren't crazy enough to riot over it, since we have football, baseball and basketball to riot over.
Should have dropped a circumcision or tipping reference in here. I knew F1 fans were passionate, but I didn't insult anyone's mother.
My intention was not to say "the rest of the world is stupid and ignorant for liking this sport," just that Americans only care about direct, honest, hard competition. If i found out that a team or individual in a sport i liked didnt give it their all each event, i would immediately lose respect for that team or person.
There was a poster above (on mobile, cannot be assed to check) who broke down the why of what happened, and it makes more sense, but still shows a problem with the sport, in my opinion, if drivers are not willing to race all out every race. You might as well turn off what should be the most interesting part of the race, the finish, if teammates are in the lead.
Btw, MLS is second only to MLB in attendance per game on America. To say that Americans hate soccer is more naive than my OP. Americans just aren't crazy enough to riot over it, since we have football, baseball and basketball to riot over.
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
I've reached my giggle quota for the day.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Why have teams if it isn't a team sport?
Its not as television friendly as Nascar....In Nascar you can always tell whose in the lead, who is behind who and where they are in the track....the more complex F1 tracks need multiple cameras to cover, and its hard to get an overall picture of the race....Im fairly certain this is why a lot of noncircular track racing hasnt caught on in america
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