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[disappeared]

Well they do state it's a gambling debt. Gambling could me he took a gamble to change things, who knows.

But Lutece, at the very end, says "Your debt to Mr./Father Comstock is absolved."

Clearly he didn't lose a hand at cards. There's something more to it.

It has to involve Anna/Elizabeth and Columbia. Maybe they/he bet at the fate of Columbia? The fate of his/their daughter?

 

[Vire]

Just make a list perhaps of your questions. Will be happy to answer them

If Booker/Comstock are removed, how does Anna still exist in the final shot?

Wouldn't she not exist because she could have never have been born?

Also why does Booker have gambling debts to the Luteces, I don't understand why the Luteces are the ones Booker pays the debt to.

What was the purpose of showing Rapture and the multiple lighthouses? Just to explain the multiple universes?

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Horse Detective]

Why does our timeline's Elizabeth not disappear at the end?

Edit: ^ Woah, he beat me!

 

[Angelus Errare]

Comstock/Booker may have had some level of cognitive/prophetic power in reality too. Booker DID see a vision of new york under attack before coming into contact with Elizabeth, when he enters Colombia for the first time.

Memory bleed. It's the timeline Comstock saw or at least part of it.

But Lutece, at the very end, says "Your debt to Mr./Father Comstock is absolved."

Clearly he didn't lose a hand at cards. There's something more to it.

It has to involve Anna/Elizabeth and Columbia. Maybe they/he bet at the fate of Columbia? The fate of his/their daughter?

My line of thinking is Comstock paid off Booker's gambling debts if he gave Comstock Anna.

 

[disappeared]

If Booker/Comstock are removed, how does Anna still exist in the final shot?

Because she will always exist. We all have our copies of Infinite to prove that.

Wouldn't she not exist because she could have never have been born?

She was always born. This is a static. She's Booker's/Comstock's daughter, so she will always exist in that context.

Also why does Booker have gambling debts to the Luteces, I don't understand why the Luteces are the ones Booker pays the debt to.

I don't think Booker owed Gambling debts to the Luteces. His "debt", and to whom its owed, is debatable. But his "debt" and Comstock are mentioned in one of the last lines in the game.

What was the purpose of showing Rapture and the multiple lighthouses? Just to explain the multiple universes?

Likely.

 

[Guess Who]

Why does our timeline's Elizabeth not disappear at the end?

Maybe she did after the screen blacked out? Maybe it's an Inception thing? Maybe after destroying the siphon, our version of Elizabeth became some kind of time god and is immune to such things? WHO KNOWS

 

[GavinGT]

If Booker/Comstock are removed, how does Anna still exist in the final shot?

Wouldn't she not exist because she could have never have been born?

Also why does Booker have gambling debts to the Luteces, I don't understand why the Luteces are the ones Booker pays the debt to.

What was the purpose of showing Rapture and the multiple lighthouses? Just to explain the multiple universes?

Thanks for the help guys.

Doesn't the sound cue sort of indicate that even the last Elizabeth gets erased? They just cut to black before it's actually shown.

 

[Guess Who]

Because she will always exist. We all have our copies of Infinite to prove that.




She was always born. This is a static.

Then why did the others disappear? Shouldn't they all equally have always been born?

 

[Vire]

Memory bleed. It's the timeline Comstock saw or at least part of it.



My line of thinking is Comstock paid off Booker's gambling debts if he gave Comstock Anna.

Ah, interesting. Very good observation, he certainly had the money from the Bank of Columbia to do so...

 

[Yeef]

I just beat it and I'm super confused...

I don't really even know where to begin to be honest. Could someone give a rundown in real simple terms of the final 10 minutes or so?

DeWitt and Comstock are the same person from different universes.

Comstock hires Rosalind Lutece (the scientist woman) who figures out how to travel between universes.

Using that technology, Comstock travels between universes in order to see the future; however doing so renders him infertile. He uses his knowledge of the future to become a 'prophet.'

He kidnaps Anna, his alternate-version's daughter to raise as an heir. (This is Elizabeth).

Because of all the mucking about in the multiverse, tears start appearing since the fabric of space-time is breaking down.

Elizabeth/Anna realizes that the only way to fix the multiverse is to kill DeWitt before he can become Comstock. In doing so, it also stops her from existing as Elizabeth (which is why they all disappear after the job is done).

 

[DatDude]

If Booker/Comstock are removed, how does Anna still exist in the final shot?

Wouldn't she not exist because she could have never have been born?

We never actually see her though. For all we know Booker already sold her, thus repeating the infinite loop.

Also why does Booker have gambling debts to the Luteces, I don't understand why the Luteces are the ones Booker pays the debt to.

They are the ones that conducted the original time traveling experiment that had comstock take liz away. So..they are sort of the main source I guess

What was the purpose of showing Rapture and the multiple lighthouses? Just to explain the multiple universes?

Pretty much. Also, a nice nod for us Bioshock fans.

 

[Horse Detective]

Doesn't the sound cue sort of indicate that even the last Elizabeth gets erased? They just cut to black before it's actually shown.

I thought that was "us" dying... or something. If they are breaking the fourth wall and showing the Elizabeths disappearing, it would make more sense not to have it happen that way. That was like a stupid cliff hanger thing

 

[disappeared]

Ah, interesting. Very good observation, he certainly had the money from the Bank of Columbia to do so...

But Booker is "both." He's Comstock and Booker. He can't owe money to himself.

Elizabeth comments on how her fale-mother, Lady Comstock, seemed to "bleed" into Elizabeth's feelings and actions. Comstock/Booker must do the same.

 

[Yeef]

Why does our timeline's Elizabeth not disappear at the end?

She does (sort of). Each Elizabeth disappears in sync with a note of the music. During the last note, the screen goes black, presumably because with 'our' Elizabeth gone, our connection to the universe is also gone.

 

[Guess Who]

But Booker is "both." He's Comstock and Booker. He can't owe money to himself.

Why the hell not?

 

[disappeared]

Why the hell not?

Well I guess he can! haha. It's his own paradox.

Then why did the others disappear? Shouldn't they all equally have always been born?

Hmm.

This goes back to what I was saying about this being Booker's "final" version of Infinite. Wherein he realizes he must push the stone up the eternal mountain.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Booker doesn't owe the Lucetes, they were collecting on behalf of Comstock so that Booker and Comstock never meet face to face and talk long enough for Booker to realize he is Comstock. The only time Booker ever sees a young Comstock is when Anna is being taken through the tear in that darkish alley. Booker was more fixated on Anna than Comstock so he doesn't really pay attention to Comstock and realize they're the same person. I'd imagine Booker does all of his transactions with the Lucetes instead of Comstock directly.

But Booker is "both." He's Comstock and Booker. He can't owe money to himself.

Uh yea he can, Comstock is from an alternate timeline and is ungodly rich. Paying off Booker's debts would be a very simple affair. Booker's payment to Comstock would be Anna.

 

[GavinGT]

She does (sort of). Each Elizabeth disappears in sync with a note of the music. During the last note, the screen goes black, presumably because with 'our' Elizabeth gone, our connection to the universe is also gone.

I need a 10,000 word breakdown like it's the final scene of The Sopranos.

Where was the MOG during all of this?

 

[Vire]

But Booker is "both." He's Comstock and Booker. He can't owe money to himself.

Elizabeth comments on how her fale-mother, Lady Comstock, seemed to "bleed" into Elizabeth's feelings and actions. Comstock/Booker must do the same.

For all intensive purposes they might as well be two different people, I don't see any reason why that can't happen.

Booker doesn't owe the Lucetes, they were collecting on behalf of Comstock so that Booker and Comstock never meet face to face and talk long enough for Booker to realize he is Comstock. The only time Booker ever sees a young Comstock is when Anna is being taken through the tear in that darkish alley. Booker was more fixated on Anna than Comstock so he doesn't really pay attention to Comstock and realize they're the same person. I'd imagine Booker does all of his transactions with the Lucetes instead of Comstock directly.



Uh yea he can, Comstock is from an alternate timeline and is ungodly rich. Paying off Booker's debts would be a very simple affair. Booker's payment to Comstock is Anna.

Agreed.

 

[Horse Detective]

She does (sort of). Each Elizabeth disappears in sync with a note of the music. During the last note, the screen goes black, presumably because with 'our' Elizabeth gone, our connection to the universe is also gone.

That kind of makes sense, but kind of doesn't.


Our connection to the universe was Booker. If we are to lose that, it will be when we are drowned. We were on the outside looking in, which makes absolutely no sense.

 

[GavinGT]

For all intensive purposes they might as well be two different people, I don't see any reason why that can't happen.

My purposes are so intense, girl.

 

[disappeared]

For all intensive purposes they might as well be two different people, I don't see any reason why that can't happen.

Sure, they're separate, but both.

Booker even admits to it at the end with, "I'm both."

He owes himself an unpayable debt with a daughter he abandoned/gave away. It's like he's chasing his own shadow.

 

[Angelus Errare]

For all intensive purposes they might as well be two different people, I don't see any reason why that can't happen.

Agreed.

Intents and purposes

 

[Vire]

Also, what was the significance of the post-credit scene?

If Booker/Comstock "died", why would the cycle repeat itself? Shouldn't it end at that point?

 

[Horse Detective]

Also, what was the significance of the post-credit scene?

If Booker/Comstock "died", why would the cycle repeat itself? Shouldn't it end at that point?

No one here gets it either.

I look at it as the only way to make a fucking depressing ending a little more tolerable.

 

[Guess Who]

Also, what was the significance of the post-credit scene?

If Booker/Comstock "died", why would the cycle repeat itself? Shouldn't it end at that point?

Pretty sure the post-credits sequence is in there primarily to fuck with us.

.

 

[Vire]

Intents and purposes

My purposes are so intense, girl.

:lol

It's 2:30 AM here, I'm tired and I just got mindfucked, give me a break.

 

[disappeared]

Also, what was the significance of the post-credit scene?

If Booker/Comstock "died", why would the cycle repeat itself? Shouldn't it end at that point?

He didn't die! "Reborn" or what you want to call it.

It's simply the outcome.

He gets washed up on shore and the Luteces haul him back into the boat.

 

[DatDude]

But Booker is "both." He's Comstock and Booker. He can't owe money to himself.

Elizabeth comments on how her fale-mother, Lady Comstock, seemed to "bleed" into Elizabeth's feelings and actions. Comstock/Booker must do the same.

They might be similar genetically.

But as far as people go, one was transformed by religion, the other fell hard on his ass.

It's like you, meeting a junkie homeless version of you whose is his 60's.

This person might look like you, talk like you, and what not, but as far as being the same person as you? Light years and light years apart.

 

[Yeef]

That kind of makes sense, but kind of doesn't.


Our connection to the universe was Booker. If we are to lose that, it will be when we are drowned. We were on the outside looking in, which makes absolutely no sense.

At that point Booker is already dead and it switches to a wide, third person shot. 'Our' connection as the gamer, is connected to 'our' Elizabeth.

It's all very 4th-wall.

 

[GavinGT]

Also, what was the significance of the post-credit scene?

If Booker/Comstock "died", why would the cycle repeat itself? Shouldn't it end at that point?

I thought it went hand-in-hand with the question of whether Elizabeth/Anna was wiped from existence when Booker was drowned. But that's sort of redundant since it's basically revisiting the pre-credits cliffhanger. Plus, why would he have a crib in his house if he never had a child?

 

[Vire]

By the way, I just found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKKAkrnT_o8

A guy goes through the ending with his own theories and explanations.

 

[disappeared]

"Anna, is that you?"

 

[Yeef]

Also, what was the significance of the post-credit scene?

If Booker/Comstock "died", why would the cycle repeat itself? Shouldn't it end at that point?

My take is that since he never becomes Comstock, Anna is never kidnapped, and therefore shoudl still be in the crib.

But it's purposely left ambiguous, because questions are more interesting than answers.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Sure, they're separate, but both.

Booker even admits to it at the end with, "I'm both."

He owes himself an unpayable debt with a daughter he abandoned/gave away. It's like he's chasing his own shadow.

That's not how separate timelines work. Booker has no knowledge of Comstock because in Booker's world there aren't tears, so your scenario makes no sense. Comstock saw a alternative timeline in which he doesn't get baptised and has a child. In this timeline he's also in debt, Comstock tells Booker he'll pay the debt that Booker owes in his (Booker's) world in exchange for Anna. Booker accepts, and gives Anna up, and Comstock would have gone back to his world. Booker's debt would be paid off in his world and he would no longer have Anna. Comstock would have went his way in his timeline, and Booker would have continued his life in his timeline unaware that he is Comstock. Except Booker had a change of heart at the end.

 

[Horse Detective]

"Anna, is that you?"

Anna is actually Comstock

 

[DarkoMaledictus]

Well very beautiful game and runs like a dream on pc... pro tip force vsync however!

 

[Vire]

My take is that since he never becomes Comstock, Anna is never kidnapped, and therefore shoudl still be in the crib.

But it's purposely left ambiguous, because questions are more interesting than answers.

It is true that he never becomes Comstock, but isn't Booker dead? Thus no Anna.

 

[DatDude]

Did you guys discuss the dates on the calendar in the room?

 

[GavinGT]

It is true that he never becomes Comstock, but isn't Booker dead? Thus no Anna.

He dies at the baptism, but his life up to that point should still have occurred.

 

[disappeared]

That's not how separate timelines work. Booker has no knowledge of Comstock because in Booker's world there aren't tears, so your scenario makes no sense. Comstock saw a alternative timeline in which he doesn't get baptised and has a child. In this timeline he's also in debt, Comstock tells Booker he'll pay the debt that Booker owes in his world in exchange for Anna. Booker accepts, and gives Anna up, and Comstock would have gone back to his world. Booker's debt would be paid off in his world and he would no longer have Anna. Comstock would have went his way in his timeline, and Booker would have continued his life in his timeline unaware that he is Comstock. Except Booker had a change of heart at the end.

So then who does he owe the debt to?

I'm telling you,

Lutece says, at the very end, "Your debt to Mr./Father Comstock is absolved."

This is after Booker destroys Columbia and frees his own daughter from a life of imprisonment.

Why would Comstock (now dead) heed to a debt from a man he gave that debt to in the first place, especially after witnessing Booker/himself destroy his own creation?

This whole "debt" thing doesn't entirely add up.

A lot of the theories here are great. But we need to go deeper.

 

[Circle Jerk]

Also, what was the significance of the post-credit scene?

If Booker/Comstock "died", why would the cycle repeat itself? Shouldn't it end at that point?

He died, meaning Comstock was never born, meaning Elizabeth was never kidnapped, meaning the events of Infinite never happened, causing the events of Infinite to happen.

 

[Guess Who]

So then who does he owe the debt to?

I'm telling you,

Lutece says, at the very end, "Your debt to Mr./Father Comstock is absolved."

This is after Booker destroys Columbia and frees his own daughter from a life of imprisonment.

I'm pretty sure those scenes are all pseudo-flashbacks - Booker remembering/reliving events from his past that he'd forgotten, therefore happening before ever visiting Columbia or killing Comstock.

 

[Horse Detective]

Who gave Booker the note at the beginning, that said not to participate in the raffle?

 

[Angelus Errare]

He dies at the baptism, but his life up to that point should still have occurred.

But he doesn't have Anna until after that.

So then who does he owe the debt to?

I'm telling you,

Lutece says, at the very end, "Your debt to Mr./Father Comstock is absolved."

This is after Booker destroys Columbia and frees his own daughter from a life of imprisonment.

Why would Comstock (now dead) heed to a debt from a man he gave that debt to in the first place, especially after witnessing Booker/himself destroy his own creation?

He says the debt is absolved when he hands over Anna to Robert. That entire sequence is Booker remembering the events that lead up to the beginning.

Who gave Booker the note at the beginning, that said not to participate in the raffle?

Lucete, it says so on the message.

 

[therealminime]

Holy shit at going to Rapture. I almost died.

 

[Horse Detective]

Also, I think I missed something...

Why were the Lutece's fishing him out of the water?

Lucete, it says so on the message.

Ah forgive me, I actually am not able to play this game, I watched a walkthrough, and I think the dude skipped through that really fast.

 

[DatDude]

He died, meaning Comstock was never born, meaning Elizabeth was never kidnapped, meaning the events of Infinite never happened, causing the events of Infinite to happen.

 

[Guess Who]

Holy shit at going to Rapture. I almost died.

God, I was spoiled to the major twist - Elizabeth being Booker's daughter, Booker/Comstock being the same person, Elizabeth killing Booker - but it didn't matter, because just spoiling those facts did NOT prepare me for how they executed it, and god damn did they execute. The Rapture scene had me literally going "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" out loud.

 

[disappeared]

I'm still saying this whole thing loops.

Infinite.

"Will the circle be unbroken..."

Booker keeps giving Anna to Comstock/ then going to save her/ then "dying"/becoming Comstock / then splitting and destroying Columbia / then giving Anna to Comstock / then going to save her...