I was on the right track. I kept saying if only I had some kind of fire power, I totally forgot about Devil's Kiss because its kind of useless.
SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
I was on the right track. I kept saying if only I had some kind of fire power, I totally forgot about Devil's Kiss because its kind of useless.
Did I miss the Voxaphone telling me that Lutece was killed by Comstock. I figured it was his/her parallel world crap that led them phasing one another out of existence and becoming the tear twins we see throughout the game.
Nevermind this makes sense. Especially considering the not too subtle hints they drop in the game with heads and tails. The fact they have the billboard with all the heads marked on it just goes to show how many times they have been through this.
MrPing1000
Member
You did, Fink has a conversation with a guy asking why Comstock wants him to kill them (It had to look like an accident). They also visited a photographer a week after they were "killed" in the Comstock universe.
Tummi Gummi
Member
One thing I kinda missed because I was so focused on finding voxophones was the cowboy merc's character arc. Is he the same guy who ends up as Fink's head of security and Li's brother-in-law in one universe, and a Vox in another, or were those different characters?
SoulUnison
Banned
If, by pure chance, Elizabeth opened a Tear into the world containing her pinky and entered it, would she lose her Tear abilities?
Or maybe it's not specifically about the pinky, but the cutting. Do Tears have perfectly, impossibly thin edges?
Slice a hot dog with a knife, no matter how sharp, and there will still be some meat left on the blade, no?
Perhaps some of Elizabeth's atoms are floating around in the "space between worlds," Not falling on one side of the knife or the other when the pinky is severed.
MrPing1000
Member
Different characters, it doesn't explain what happened to the merc but he was an interesting character. Ruthless, seemed to enjoy killing for Comstock but then flips to Vox, wanting to kill Comstock. Similar to Booker in that he seems to be seeking redemption via his adoption of the Indian boy + lust for killing his previous employer. Could easily be in a DLC.
Got it, it's clearer now. The Lutece's somewhat selfish desire to unite with an exact male/female version of themselves from a parallel dimension feels like it sets a lot of this in motion, even if Comstock was looking it was Rosalind and Robert that made the deal happen. Really hope that we get to learn more about those two in future content.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Ah ok, that was a little confusing because they looked similar to me and I wasn't paying attention to that conversation after the tear. That vox with the trapped courier was pretty powerful - it could've come across as schmaltzy or melodramatic, but the VA really nailed the guy's feelings at that point.
ShroudOfFate
Member
I just finished the game last night and holy shit that was a great ending. As of now I like it more than the original, but I need to let it settle for a few days to be sure lol.
Was anyone else weirded out by seeing Rapture mostly clean? Aside from the fallen column it seemed like you were there before the fall. Maybe it was just everything looking better in UE3 though.
Was anyone else weirded out by seeing Rapture mostly clean? Aside from the fallen column it seemed like you were there before the fall. Maybe it was just everything looking better in UE3 though.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
That was a really good one, yeah. "....wish he cry or something....."
I didn't even realize I kinda blew him away at Fink's place until Elizabeth mentioned it, though
If you walked around a little bit upstairs, it was pretty rundown.
Which is pretty interesting, because Bathyspheres were apparently restricted so only Ryan could use them.
This could be off by a certain percentage which explains why the main character in Bioshock 1 could use them, and Dewitt...
Tummi Gummi
Member
huh? Blew the merc away? I thought Ping says that was a different guy. I'm confused again
oktarb
Member
CAD had a stumble but man he gets way more hate than deserved.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
IIRC, it's more on the female version. I think there's a voxophone which goes more into her reasoning behind why they switch sides and her motivation based on Robert's ultimatum, but I haven't found it yet.
She kept working for Comstock in the name of SCIENCE until Robert, who came from a different universe, saw through a tear what would happen with Comstock's 'prophecy', (destroying the human population except for Columbia), and gave her an ultimatum to either fix things so that event did not occur, or he would go back to his own universe.
She then starts working with her brother until Comstock has them 'killed' by shutting the time machine off while they are inside, hence apparently giving them some approximation of Liz's abilities but for whatever reason (i.e. being limited, direct intervention not working), they appear to only be able to bring various Bookers to their respective Comstock universes in order to guide/shape Booker into the best chance of surviving and meeting up with Liz, in order to revert the universe back to one main timeline without the ramifications of the baptism choice.
giancarlo123x
Banned
I loved seeing Rapture at the end of this. I nerded out pretty hard. That moment game me MGS4 act 4 vibes. I just wish there was more we could explore.
ShroudOfFate
Member
Ah okay. I was busy watching Songbird so I didn't go upstairs.
Maybe Booker is a descendant of Ryan in another universe?
I like the idea that Jack and Andrew Ryan are descendents of Elizabeth (and I guess Comstock, too) in another universe (Bioshock 1 takes place a generation or two after 1912, right?).
She left a part of herself in another universe.
As Robert Lautec says, "The universe doesn't like Peas in its Porridge it would seem."
I wonder if his original head of security, the merc with the cowboy hat is a version of Booker that didn't fight at Wounded Knee.
I'm just throwing out random stuff, I didn't learn too much about that guy other than the random Voxophones.
ShroudOfFate
Member
Yeah Bioshock 1 takes place in 1960 so potentially it could be possible. If Liz was really young when she gave birth anyway.
Andrew Ryan moves to Rapture in 1946 and Liz is 18 in 1912 so yeah it would be possible. However Ryan was in Russia in 1917 so he would have to be around 5 then.
Absolutely none of those statements makes sense to me. What do any of those things have to do with another, apart from Lutece? Haha.
I agree that 122 code and 122 tally marks probably isn't a coincidence, but I don't see a connection.
SoulUnison
Banned
I think it has to do more with the "cutting" being done by a tear itself than it does with Elizabeth leaving her pinky in another universe.
If it just has to do with leaving a bit of yourself in another universe, what about dead skin, or a strand of hair, etc.?
Hell, there's plenty of combat in this game, and in just the "Retrieve guns for the Vox" segment you jump through 3 different universes.
Booker's probably spread a decent amount of his own blood and gore all over the multiverse, but he doesn't develop Tear powers.
Did Elizabeth give that rosebush Tear powers when she snapped off a rose and brought it through with her?
I'm pretty sure the "last chance" things you see, such as the note to Booker on the door of the lighthouse, are from the Letuces, and are them trying to add some legitimacy to Booker's fabricated motivation that he needs to retrieve Elizabeth and "repay a debt."
The letter on the door to the lighthouse says that this is Booker's last chance. As if he's done it before.
I think you just spoiled the plot to Bioshock 4: Rosebush.
I think that's a bit of a stretch. The 'last chance' statement reeks of being a drama-enhancer instead of being a nod toward 'number of times this has happened.'
Moreover, why would that have an impact on the code required to enter Columbia?
And then, why would there be a finite number of attempts to end the cycle at all?
Tummi Gummi
Member
The rosebush travels to Citadel station, crashes on Tau Ceti V.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
By the way, did anyone catch the subtle Deus Ex reference late in the game?
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
I'm still sort of in the dark on how this is exactly a true loop. I understand that Booker went to Comstock's universe, then the ending happened. But when was this ever actually looped back through? Unless the loop is the "infinite possibilities" that come after the baptism that may have failed, and we played the single one that prevented all of the possibilities from happening?
Superimposer
This is getting weirder all the time
Zero truth whatsoever, I am convinced of it. It's not like the code to enter Columbia just changes conveniently in correspondence with every time Booker tries again. Not to mention if there's 122 marks it's his 123rd attempt anyway.
Noray said:
No, what was it?
Well the infinite loop is Booker either chooses to be baptized, or chooses not to.
By drowning the one who chose to be baptized, you isolated the loop and just made one outcome.
I wonder if his original head of security, the merc with the cowboy hat is a version of Booker that didn't fight at Wounded Knee.
I'm just throwing out random stuff, I didn't learn too much about that guy other than the random Voxophones.
I don't think saying "I never asked for this" is a dues ex reference.
famousmortimer
Banned
I didn't collect all of the audio logs, do any of them explain why the police force or most people in general don't use Vigors? There are vending machines EVERYWHERE and they were even handing them out at the start of the game in the city... but the police force and vox don't use them against you.
I didn't really think about this at all as i was playing but a friend recently brought it up and I thought it was a decent question... but like I said I may have just missed the explanation.
I didn't really think about this at all as i was playing but a friend recently brought it up and I thought it was a decent question... but like I said I may have just missed the explanation.
Well the more powerful enemies do like the fireman and the crow people, but other than that I think they are mostly not used for gameplay reasons.
If you were held up in the air for 5 seconds by a Bucking Bronco, stunned by Shock Vigor, or your bullets were caught by someone using Return to Sender, that would not be fun at all.
One interesting missed opportunity could have been the Under Tow power. Could have been interesting if you were riding the skyline and a special enemy came in and ripped you across the map.
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
But aren't you drowning both by drowning before the baptism, thus preventing it from ever happening?
famousmortimer
Banned
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't like to be bucking bronco'd over and over, but it does seem a bit odd.
And yeah, there are definitely people augmented by vigors, like the firemen, but i was wondering more about the typical foot soldier.
yea, that's what the game's story is going with. i think people could complicate it more by posting even more theories but i like this solution that stopping Booker from being reborn as Comstock basically destroyed all the other Comstock realities.
That's the thing, the general plot in this game is not that difficult to follow, but the depth is like an ocean. We are going to be discussing and debating the minor points for months.
Was it before or after the baptism?
We can't be sure.
Makes sense it was before because all of the Elizabeths wink out. If Booker was dead, then he couldn't reproduce after he rejected the baptism.
Or was it after? There is that scene after the credits where he opens the door screaming Anna's name.
When the Lutece's gave you the vigor for shield, they were kinda surprised that you were able to handle it. I just took that as a sign that you have to be a pretty strong person to use vigors in the first place.
my take on that scene is that it's the timeline where Booker never sold his daughter so none of that baptism ever happened. i'm gonna assume that memory from the other timelines are in the Booker in the epilogue. they seemed to stress that point with the Luteces.
oktarb
Member
The choice to drown prior to be baptized leads you to believe that cancels out the different paths that come about after his baptismal but its tad simplified. Don't we just create another choice path fragment? One where now he has to choose whether or not to drown himself before baptism? I think Booker had it right you have to smother him in the cradle but he didn't follow his own advice.
famousmortimer
Banned
Yeah, that's a good point. But it does seem weird to have them on sale everywhere if most people can't handle them. I mean, we do know the outcome of a city if everyone starts using them willy-nilly thanks to Rapture, but they don't know that...
If you walk around at the very beginning of the game you will hear someone say, "I prefer to wait a couple years while Fink irons out all the kinks."
There are probably some serious complications that come along with Vigors.
Superimposer
This is getting weirder all the time
People in the main thread are having a lot of trouble getting Finkton right. It's either Finktown, Finkertown, Finkerton or many other variations.
Same with Lutece. It's Lutece people!
Carry on
Same with Lutece. It's Lutece people!
Carry on
right, that particular branch in the timeline no longer occured. i'm assuming that Booker still exists in other timelines even tho he died in large majority of timelines from being drowned. hope i'm not being confusing. lol
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
The code for the elevator towards the end is 0451. That's the combination to the UNATCO storage room outside. Also used as the elevator code of Sarif's office in Human Revolution.
famousmortimer
Banned
Technically it was elizabeth/anna drowning Booker. I think the assumption is, like booker not rowing in the beginning, that every elizabeth in every universe would do this (a fact backed up by the elizabeth who does go on to destroy the world doesn't like herself and wants to prevent it from happening).
But that doesn't explain the scene after the credits. So... who knows?
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